What The Bible Says About Business | with Mukwenda Kandole, Faithustle

What you're saying is that as you're building your business, you're building a life and you're demonstrating the love of Jesus at the same time, in the heart of Jesus. Absolutely. Instead of, you know, bumper stickers and slogans and... God has a heart for the marketplace because He has a heart for the world. I think 3% of the church is in vocational ministry, so on staff, leaders at a local body or a para-church organization or ministry. That leaves 97% of the rest of us, we're in the marketplace. And it's like, if we're thinking that 3% is going to do it, this is going to be a long journey. It's like, no, no, no. Well, we're also going to lose. Yeah. Like in the battle for eternity. Yeah. It's just up to those 3%. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Gaining Ground podcast. My name is Landon. It's always an honor to have you tuning in. And as always, I'm joined by my co-host, my dad. Dad, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. The spring has sprung. Pollen is flying around the air. My eyes are itchy and I'm coughing, but I'm happy. Yeah. You know what?

That's always an unfortunate reality to this time of the year in Texas. Texas this time of year. You know what's better than pollen? What? Our guest. Amen. On today's episode. Amen. Our guest on today's episode. I'm so excited for everybody listening to this. I think it'll be super duper helpful to you. This individual has identified the need to talk about entrepreneurship and specifically, like, how do you become a faith leader in the marketplace? He runs an organization called Faith Hustle. His name is Maquinda, which is a great name. So everybody, no matter where you're watching from or listening from, can you welcome Maquinda to the Gaining Ground podcast? What's up, buddy? I am honored to be here. I'm glad I'm better than pollen. I really, really thank you. No, I'm great. Listen, I'm not a native of Texas, but I've been here for four years. I've never bought more Claritin in my life. You feel it, bro? Where are you from? I wake up in the morning. It's just, yeah. I'm from Pennsylvania originally. Okay.

Then I lived in Michigan, metro Detroit area for about eight years and then down here. At least you don't have the snow you had in Pennsylvania and Detroit. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it. Before we get into the crux of this, though, that's like the coolest name I've ever heard in my life. Like, my name is Drew. Hey, it's a great name. Hey, Andrew, that's a biblical name. Andrew. Yes, it is Andrew and I short for Drew, but I'm just like that's Maquinda. Yeah, bro. That's dope. Where did that come from? It's a cool story. So my dad's from Uganda and he's a pastor. And so in my dad's language, in his tribal language, when they had me, there was this kind of a fight between my dad and my mom and they're like, my mom wanted me to be a junior, take after my dad's name. But he was like, no, he has to have his own name, you know, his own uniqueness. And so Maquinda means apostle or the sent one. Gosh, now it's even cooler. But yeah, growing up, like I just had to like own it of like, yeah, I know it's gonna be hard. You'll get it wrong, I'm sure. But like, this is what it is. And so I love it. I love it. Yeah. I think my name, like I looked it up one time, means like between two hills, which has zero

relevance. I named you after a basketball player at Indiana University. Landon Turner. And I can't. Landon's a cool name. Do you play basketball? I can't hoop, dude. Like, I don't. He was more of a football player. More football than basketball. But now I just play pickleball. I love pickleball. I have a title in my car right now. Oh, for real? Oh, yeah. I play. I love it. Let's get into this. Let's get into this episode then and we'll go play pickleball. There we go. All right. So today's conversation. And I know this story is, of course, Maquinda, but you lead something called Faith Hustle. Yes, sir. And I know a bunch of people listening to this right now. Well, I know a hundred percent of everyone listening to this right now has at least worked a job in their life. You may be in and out of a season of employment or you're somewhere along the organizational chart in your business or you're a coach, you're a teacher, you're a college student, but work is a part of life.

And you've identified something, attention, I think, through Faith Hustle. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Faith Hustle, where the heart of it is and where it came from? Yeah. So we started back in 2024 as a podcast. Then we branched out from that and some incredible other things, started doing events and all those different things. But it started because, you know, I grew up a pastor's kid. I'm a PK. Same. We can talk about our trauma later. Exactly. We made it somehow by the grace of God. I'm just kidding. No, no, no. I'm a great. And my dad's still in the ministry and so I didn't grow up in business, but I got this like business kind of, I don't know, love, I got the bug for it probably in my kind of late teenage years. You got that entrepreneurship in your blood a little bit. Yeah. I knew I had it. And, you know, didn't have a lot of money. did different ventures, little things, uh, joined an agency. So I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I was doing advertising. I'm going to do this.

That's my background and video. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And, um, and when I was going to look for, okay, learning more about I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. marketing or sales or whatever, just business stuff, you know, I'm going online and at the time I couldn't find any content that was Christian business related and so, you know, you find the thought leaders that are there, which they're not bad per se. Um, it was a lot of, I had to eat the meat and spit out the bones of like, I can't follow all of this to a T because this is definitely not all biblical, but like, okay, I'll take some of the principles that I can, um, and I did that, but, uh, a pastor that I love, he says this, whoever has your ear has your future and I realized I was taking after a lot of the lifestyle and the behavior of the people I was following of just, you know, online. And, uh, if you're not careful, I think we can be so moldable of the voices that are in our lives that are pointing us in the direction of like, whether it's wealth or, Hey, grind. And I mean, there was like phrases of like, Hey, sleep when you're dead. Or, Oh yeah, dude. I've seen that. I see that all the time. Oh, all the time. And just like, and it's like, it sounds good, but it's like, no, this is actually, the Bible does not talk about that. You know, the Bible talks about, of course, diligent work, but it also, you know, puts importance on rest, put importance on the Sabbath and all these different things.

And, and so I, thankfully I was a part of a church that had a lot of entrepreneurs and they had the lifestyle I wanted where they served the Lord. Their families were healthy and they, what they were teaching me and the path they were showing me was much different than what I was seeing on YouTube or read the books I was reading. And so, you know, as this was working for me, those different principles and just realizing, you know, how Proverbs talks about the blessing of the Lord makes a man rich and he adds no sorrow to it. And I saw a lot of clients, a lot of, honestly, my business peers were like, yeah, they financially, maybe we're doing very well, but had a lot of sorrow. And I'm like, they're living miserable lives. And I'm like, this is, this is not what God, God's, this is not God's best. You know, cause blessing is not just money. I know a lot of people with money that are not blessed. And I was like, Lord, I, I, I want the whole thing, which I, peace with Him, walking in step with Him, you know, like, like if my relationships are thriving in the work, joy. Yeah, real joy. Absolutely. If the relationships I'm, I, uh, that are around me are not thriving. I don't know if that's from the Lord, you know? Like, and so I was like, I want His way. And so I went on my own journey. And then really, I think I had a burden of like, man, I felt this hole that there was nothing here. There was no content talking about this, at least at the time that I could see. Um, and so I was like, okay, well, I'm going to start it. And so started it in 2024. And the whole premise was like helping young Christian entrepreneurs learn how to build their business God's way.

And so we just, we bring on some of the best of the best people who've built seven, eight figure businesses. And we've had the CEO of Bluebell ice cream and, uh, Chad Gunderson, my good friend, the producer of The Chosen and several other people who have done, you know, started, did he bring samples? I wanted to, I, I, I, I snuck in like, Hey, can I get like a lifetime supply or something, you should have put that in the car. I really should have. I really should have a gallon per week, per week, the rest of my life. Exactly. And like, I think, I don't think that's a lot asking. I don't think I'm asking a lot either, man. Um, that's a blessing. Uh, and he's, he's a great guy too, but, but anyways, God just kept bringing these people, uh, uh, and to the show and it's, it's been growing and it's awesome just to see the traction. Um, and then last year, as I was praying, I felt God was like, I thought the problem was education where it was like, okay, we got to educate people and business knowledge or this and that. And then I realized like, no, the problem is isolation. That people are not, they don't have like-minded people, like people who think like them in the marketplace that are wanting to build in a biblical way. And so we started doing events and by the grace of God, I went from doing no events ever to, we did nine last year. Um, we just did our first one of the year last month. And basically we were just gathering Christian entrepreneurs, content creators, we have influencers that will come, that the whole goal is they have the same thing in mind. They want to build God's way and they want to be around like-minded people. And, uh, we'll have panels where people, uh, you know, we'll share their wisdom.

And we did a tour this fall. We had 32 people give their lives to Christ. We built enough, we raised enough money to build seven clean water wells, uh, and, you know, just trying to model generosity and, uh, In West Africa, actually. Yeah, yeah. And anyways, yeah, just the Lord's been really kind to us and it's been cool to see the impact and the stories that we hear from literally around the world now of people who are starting their businesses on the right foundation. It's just been really cool. Well, thank you for sharing that. And that's why I was so excited to talk to you because I think there's some people listening to this right now that whether they would classify or call themselves an entrepreneur, like I never really thought of myself as an entrepreneur until we started this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it was really the first thing in my adult life, at least, that I've started from nothing, right? Like got before the Lord and tried to figure this out. But as I mentioned earlier, everybody listening to this has some type of work experience. They're currently working a job. Maybe they're the top boss, the CEO, maybe they're somewhere in middle management,

maybe they're just starting. But one of the reasons we started Gaining Ground is because God just put on my heart that it's really clear how you grow in most areas of your life, right? Relationally, what do you do? You meet somebody, you're single, then you're dating, then you're engaged, then you're married. There's a progression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In your work life, you get a new title, you get a raise. And then when it comes to your faith, I just saw a bunch of men coming into our church and it was like, these guys are studs, brilliant, growing, taking ground. And then it comes to their faith and they're like, what do I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of them are, they're kind of stuck. No, 100%. How do I do this? I don't know, nobody's ever shown me. And so I would imagine you've got some good things to say about that because like, I've even had conversations with guys where it's like, I want to be a Christian business leader, but I bid on land and build apartments. Or I manage stocks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or like, how do I do that to glorify God? What does that look like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, what did that faith versus hustle conflict actually look like in real life? And how do you think that looks on like, a Tuesday afternoon? Right, yeah. When you're trying to get stuff done at work? Right, well, I will say this. What we don't talk about, it's not just slapping like a Jesus fish, you know? Like on your logo or something like that. Or like, renaming your company, you know, John 316 Construction, which I don't know if that's a company or not. I always give that a- It probably is. It probably is in Texas. There's a good chance it's in Atlanta or something. Sometimes that stuff is not that helpful. No, I mean- It can actually work in reverse. Yeah, because like, if it's not good, there's like, so like, I don't want you witnessing a crisis if it's not good, you know? And so, you know, I don't, I think for me, the way I look at it, and again, the stories of people that we have on the show,

I think the essence one is in who you are. The reason why I call it a faith hustle, I spell it with one H, and I didn't misspell it. It's because- Oh, I just noticed that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you know? I do it with one H because I don't believe there is a separation. And what I mean by that is that I'm not a different person when I go to work than I am when I'm home. Like, I'm the same person. Like, yeah, it's like, I have a different function, but I am the same me. I'm the same Maquinda. If I was different people, I think we have a term for that, schizophrenic. You know? It's like, no, it's like, no, so it's like, I can't, so, but what does that mean? What does that practically look like? We talk about five different pillars that we felt the Lord gave us of what we teach from, of what makes someone a faith hustle entrepreneur. It's being spirit-led.

It's having a heart of stewardship, integrity, humility, generosity. So we try to sum it up in kind of those five pillars. Hey, can you repeat that again? Yes, being spirit-led, stewardship, integrity, humility, generosity. And so, and obviously we can go through it. Being spirit-led, Jesus, the best leader that we know, He didn't do anything without seeing the Father do it. It's like, are you consulting with the Lord, you know, in your business practices and the decisions that you're making? Are you bringing it, submitting your plans to Him? You know, and that's the best strategy you can ever have, right? You know, and then stewardship, right? Are we multiplying what God's putting in our hands? Are we, you know, the resources that we're being given, are we using them wisely? And then integrity, you know, who are you when no one is watching? Realizing that, hey, if I'm saying I represent Christ, that's a big deal. And so, you know, how I conduct myself matters because I'm not representing myself. Any room I go into, I'm an ambassador of Christ, no matter what. And again, it doesn't mean I have John 3.16 on my chest, you know, when I'm going into a meeting, but I do represent Him,

that it should be evident, you know, of my life. humility, right? Like Jesus modeled what leadership was. He washed feet, right? Like I'm not the chief executive officer. I'm the chief servant, right? And whoever I'm leading, I'm serving, right? And then lastly, generosity. Like that's how God modeled. We're blessed to be a blessing, right? And the wealth that we accumulate, it's for a purpose. And so we try to summon up in that, but I mean, I think the heart of it, because to your point, especially with men, it can be hard because we can win in this area, the area of our faith. It can be tough, and then that cross can be interesting. But I have found, at least for myself and the people that we've gotten to help, is helping them realize that, you know, when it talks about like, do your work as unto the Lord, you know, the word work and worship, I think it's separated like by one letter in the Hebrew. Like it's basically the same word. So if this what I'm doing, my business, whatever I'm in, if it's worship, is it a worthy offering, right? Is it, you know, is it a worthy sacrifice? Like is it something that actually would please him? And it's really a perspective shift. I didn't, honestly, for the first part of my business, I didn't see what I was doing as ministry. I saw it as something separate. I'm doing my thing and then I'll come in on the weekend, you know. And when I saw that, no, no, no, this matters just as much to the Lord. The first person in Scripture to get, or the first people, I should say, in Scripture to get the Spirit, right, were craftsmen. They weren't worship leaders, right? So it's like God has a heart for the marketplace because he has a heart for the world. And I mean, practically speaking, and we talked about this before we started going, I think 3% of the church is in vocational ministry.

So on staff, leaders at a local body or a para-church organization or ministry. That leaves 97% of the rest of us, we're in the marketplace. And it's like, if we're thinking the 3% is going to do it, this is going to be a long journey. It's like, no, no, no. Well, we're also going to lose. Yeah. Like in the battle for eternity, it's just up to those 3%. Oh, yeah. This is so powerful for us, McLinda, because our goal of Gaining Ground is to help men get 1% better every day. Yes. Just make progress on their faith journey with Jesus. And so this is helpful because what you're saying is that as you're building your business, you're building a life and you're demonstrating the love of Jesus at the same time in the heart of Jesus. Absolutely. Instead of bumper stickers and slogans and putting a Bible verse in your email or whatever. Yeah. And that's fine if you want to, but it's just, it's not the whole picture, right? It's because you can have that. And again, I've had some services. People are like, oh, yeah. Honestly, I've had some really bad services from people who had a Christian name and they're like, hold up. What's going on here? You should probably take that out of there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I think, again, I think it's a heart thing. It's intentions. And again, it's realizing that this is not mine.

You know, it's stewardship. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go back to that. I like it that you separated stewardship and generosity, actually. I think that was cool. Yeah, because I think, I mean, to me, you look at the parable of the talents, it's around multiplication, right? Now, to be fair, I think the beautiful thing that we also miss, the one that had two, the one that had five, God didn't judge them based off, oh man, two, you could have got ten. He's like, no, no. You took from what I gave you. You multiplied it. And you did something with it rather than the one you did nothing with. And so I think, yeah, the stewardship piece for me is that, okay, this gift that I'm given, this business that I'm given, am I doing my work unto the Lord? Is it excellent, right? Like, personally, to me, I believe that excellence is our evangelism. I think people— Excellence is our evangelism. Yes. I believe people see, like, think about the story of David, right? He gets summoned by the king to play for him. Yes. Because he was skilled. He didn't know he was anointed, but all he knew, he was skilled. Once he got there, then he was like, oh, this is anointed and the spirits are lifting off of him. We don't know that until he gets in. And, you know, when the Lord— where it told Samuel, you know, man looks at the outward, God looks at the heart. My whole life, I read that as like an excuse for mediocrity of like, oh, I can do the bare minimum because grace.

God loves me. God knows my heart. God knows my heart. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. I think we're missing it. It's like, yeah, God knows your heart, but people don't. They see the outside. So it's like, no, no, no, no. It should be, if we're doing it unto the Lord, it should be the best. Like I, one of my dear friends, Marty Brian, he has like 10 plus restaurants. I don't even know how many restaurants he has now. Marty B. Marty B's. I love, and I had him on the show several times. And I mean, I didn't know it was a Christian establishment until like my second or third time there. But I remember the first time I had that brisk, I said, somebody saved back here. Who is doing, but just everything from the service and the experience, this is intentional. So my favorite restaurant at DFW is 1845. Oh yes, yes, yes. And yeah, that's like our day spot. That's where we go. I've been to his Tex-Mex in Argyle and I've been to his bowls place, but I haven't been 1845. For real, I tasted those cheesy potatoes. I'm like, this is gonna be at the marriage supper.

Exactly, the Holy Ghost is in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got some brisket queso, no filet queso. But he took it off the menu. Yeah, but you can still order it. I was there the other night. Secret menu item is like the animal style fries. You can order the filet queso. It's not on the menu, but they will bring it to you. And they just- Marty, bring it back. Hey, could you help get Marty B on the show? Let me give him a call. I'll give him a call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make that happen for us, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. But anyways, yeah, I think to answer your question about stewardship, I think for me, it is, I'm doing my work unto the Lord. Is it excellent? Am I multiplying what God's put in my hands? All of it is because it's not about me and I don't own it. I'm a manager and God's entrusted me with this and he expects a return. And I think it's, again, partly it's money, but I think it's beyond money. I think it's this thing that you put, did you impact somebody?

Did you help somebody? Did you glorify me in this? And so it's really a posture of heart that we just try to display. I always go back to Luke 12, Maquinda, where Jesus actually said, hey, to whom much is given, much is required. And you have to figure out what that means for you. Yes. I mean, we all have to. It's so powerful. Beautiful. So Maquinda, you've said a lot of great stuff, but one of the things I just wanna go back to, right? And it was, if you go to your title of your organization, Faith Hustle, there's no separations, 1H. Yes. I think that's probably the biggest missing piece for our audiences. You know, we compartmentalize our life. I got my career, I got my family, I've got church on the weekends if we can make it, I've got my friends, I've got sports, I've got hobbies, I've got whatever. And I love, man, that verse you talk about, you've been saying, whatever you do, do unto the Lord, Colossians 3.23. When I was a kid, my mom gave me that verse on a note card. I think I was like probably six years old. And she did it in the context of sports.

And I even think she drew like a baseball and a basketball and a football or whatever on top of it. But man, that has been one of the guiding scriptures of my life. Whatever you do, do it with all your heart as if working for the Lord, not for men. And I think that's the biggest, like a light bulb moment for me. And I think for our listeners too, is seeing this as, look, there is no separation between your faith and your work. And that I think is the tension point because what do I do if I'm guided by margins and it resulted in us letting people go or making a difficult decision and where you're trying to keep the bottom line healthy. I think that's the piece that will be most helpful for this is the understanding of, listen, man, everything you do in every industry, every moment, every responsibility, if you're truly following Jesus, He's with you in that. He's with you in that. There is no separation, right? And ultimately, I think the only way that happens is if you see yourself as a steward, that it's not yours. Even if this was your idea and you built this thing from nothing, ultimately, it's the thing God has given you to steward. Talk to us about stewardship. What does that look like?

If you're a leader, you're a middle manager, you're a college kid just starting, what does it look like to steward a business in a God already? way. You know, it's funny. I, I'm going to go a direction you probably don't think I'm going to go. Uh, and I can't wait. And it's, it's coming to me because we teach, so we have an online community called the faith hustle network. We have entrepreneurs from around the country. We help develop them every single week. We bring in some of these seven, eight figure Christian entrepreneurs to speak into their lives. And we do Bible studies. We do these trainings. Um, and we did this series on build his way, which is kind of like our tagline. And we studied the life of Noah. And there's a portion in Genesis six and seven where he's repeats the same phrase basically. And he says, uh, after the Lord had given him instructions, I mean, even just the, the wild thought of, of, of Noah, you talk about a steward. He got one set of instructions for a hundred years. Didn't hear anything else until, Hey, in seven days, it's going to rain. So you got literally like one set of instruction. It's a wild thought. And it said in Genesis six and seven, it repeats the same phrase that Noah did all that was commanded of him to do. And then you go to Hebrews 11, which is like the hall of fame of faith, right? Oh, my goodness. Oh, it's, it's, it's powerful. And, and it says that of Noah says in reverent fear, he constructed the ark. And so to me, I don't, I don't know if you can be a real proper steward of the Lord with, uh, without the fear of the Lord. I don't know if we can be the best stewards that we can to what God has given us without, because I think what, because I can hear someone being like, okay, like, again, like what's the mechanics, what's the tactical. I get the idea, but like, how do I do it? How do I do it? But I think, I think, I think the heart actually matters more because the how actually doesn't matter because what, because the how is whatever he says and doing it in the way that he said it. And, and because you have this fear of the Lord that, Hey, this is, this is not like what, what made Noah be like, stop what he was doing? Cause he wasn't doing nothing. He had a family, right? I'm sure he had some work or whatever. I don't even know if he knew how to build anything, but he was like, Hey, I want you to construct this ark for the saving of your family. You're the only righteous man. I want you to walk in this and he's diligent to it

and he stays on mission. And I think, I think for me, it's like, I am going to have to give an account of my life when this is all said and done. And I don't know if we have the gravity of that, of like, I'm going to have to give an account of this work that I did, this business that I did. I'm going to have to give an account for it. When the Bible says that every idle word, I'm going to have to be held accountable for it. That's a scary thought. And it's like, okay, Lord, if that were the case, and if you were to call my name tomorrow, am I going to hear well done? And again, like, I know it's heavy, but that's the seriousness that we have, because I actually don't think we think of it that way. I think we were like, oh man, this is just, just my job. Just my, just my desk. But if we saw the weight of, oh no, I'm going to be held account of this. I think our posture will be different. We'd be, we would, we would come in every day different. Okay. How do I steward this? Well, how do I multiply this? Well, why? Because I'm going to have to give an account to, to, to my master of what did I do with this? And so to me, I think that's where it actually starts because the tactical is like, okay, like, all right, God, since this is yours, what do you want me to do today? How, how, how do you want me to steward this today? And even when you're talking about how we can, as men, we can compartmentalize our lives of, okay, we got my work life here, my family life here. I got this, I got this, got this. When I think, I think what God wants us to do is like, no, it's, it's me first. And then I will instruct you of how, of how I want you to focus and where I want you to go. And I think, I think that's just the heart of it. And that would be my encouragement to any man that's like struggling with like, okay, like, how do I do this? I think honestly, it's really, it's like, do you, do you fear him? Do you have a reverence for him? And does that actually pierce your soul that you're going to be held accountable for how you are leading this? And then from there, then when you get. to that point, then you're a dependent, then you're like, Oh, okay, God, not my will, your will be done, help me. I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm doing. You instruct me. I'll tell you what I'm hearing from you, Maquinda, is not the guys that are listening out there today. You know, you're not saying, Hey, you got to change your career and you got to,

you're saying what you're doing, man, do it wholeheartedly for the Lord, build it his way, and so if anything gets needs to be changed, it might be the posture of our heart and understanding that fear. And, and, and, you know, what did Noah do at the very least he, he, he, he obeyed God and he was humble and he didn't go his way. He went God's way. Yeah. I think of, uh, Joseph, uh, Arimathea of, you know, he, he wasn't a priest. He wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't, uh, uh, he was a business guy. He was a business guy. He was on council, but his position and him knowing who he was, some unlocked with him, he was like, Jesus can have my tomb. Yeah. He can, and set up the resurrection. He knew it was going to be temporary anyway. You know, he was alone. He was borrowed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, that's where I want to be. I want to be like, Lord, I want to be in position. You can have my tomb. You can, because I know this isn't mine. This is yours, you know, and, and I, and like you said, I think you said it perfectly, is it saying, okay, you need to stop what you're doing, change your business or go into the, I mean, if God's telling you to do that, sure, but no, you can be in construction, you can be whatever, whatever industry and accountant. And that's why, honestly, my, my podcast, I love bringing, I mean, we have people in tech, people who've built construction companies, people who are in content coaching, we've had so many different industries across the board. So people can get an idea and perspective of like, oh, this is what it looks like.

Like I had a dear friend on, she has been a Nike trainer for their app for like millions of people in the past 15 years. Did it with Apple as well. Like just incredible, has trained celebrities and has her own platform. And you know, not too long ago, fully surrendered to Christ. She's like, okay, what do I do now to bring glory to the Lord? The Lord gave her this idea of like, start an event called Grace and Grit. Do a small group and then do a, and, you know, and, and, you know, preach the word and then do a workout. She starts doing it and Nike's like, we'll pay for it. So she's doing this whole thing and they're proclaiming the word of God, praying for each other and Nike's fitting the bill. And I'm like, that, that's what I mean. Like God didn't need her to like, oh no, we need you out here in the fitness space. Do, do what you're called to do. And, um, and so again, we, I mean, the countless examples we have are just so much, you know, and of people who are in different spaces, my, my friend, Brad, Brad Nethery, he was in the, um, the spirit space with, uh, Oak & Eden whiskey and, um, just like, I mean, they, they were getting testimonies of people getting saved because of the packaging in the bottle. Like the, I'm like, you can do anything, Lord. Like, like, so it's not, it's not the industry. It's not, it's just, it is the perspective. I believe. I had someone one time asked me if you could be any person in the Bible, who would you be, and it was a bunch of pastors and everybody was saying, you know, like Jesus and Paul and Peter. And I said, I think I'll just be the little boy in John chapter six. And that's the one that just, he had the two loaves and the five fishes and they were all like, that's weird.

But I'm, I meant it because it's like, I don't have a lot to offer, but what I do, I want to give it all to him. And I'm okay with that in the end. If that's all, if that's, if that's who I get recognized as, I'm good because he gave everything he had. And, and then, and, and so I always tell people two fish and five loaves in the hands of the master can change the world. Can change the world. It can. So we can be world changers, but, and I think this faith hustle is awesome. I'm so glad we had you today. Oh, I'm so grateful. Well, I, I've just been, I've been thinking about the guys that I know that are making a difference in the workplace as I'm hearing you both talk. And I just, there's two things that are coming to the forefront of my mind. Uh, number one, I'm so grateful for you, for you guys. And I'm talking about our listeners because God has you where you are for a very specific reason and purpose. And that doesn't mean you have to stay in that particular career, but when you become a Christ follower, you are there as an ambassador and change agent. And to your point, dad, God can do a whole lot, even if it doesn't seem significant in your work. Right. John chapter six, he took a little boy's lunch and fed a bunch of people. And so God can use you in your workplace. And the second thing, I love that you talked about the fear of the Lord, Maquinda, is like, the only reason that you would compartmentalize your life, and I'm not talking about management of time, right?

Some seasons are busier than others. You got all kinds of different, I'm talking about the compartmentalization of your heart. The only way that you would really compartmentalize your heart is if you have an improper understanding of who's actually in charge. That's good. Because the reality is, what have we learned from every great empire in human history? They fall. Yes, they do. One day, Amazon will be gone. I hope I'm not here for that, because God bless Amazon Prime, okay? One day, Apple will be replaced. Oh man, I think if I had all the money that my wife had on Amazon. She's keeping it alive. Annual trip to Italy. But my point is, is we get this idea of like, if we don't grow by this amount in this quarter, if we don't triple our revenue, or add all these employees, or become the number one in this space, then we've missed our opportunity. And the reality is, is God before the throne, when you stand before him, and you will, scripture says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess,

is not gonna ask you why you grew 12% instead of 15% in quarter two of 2027. What he's gonna ask you is, were you faithful with what I gave you? So good. And I actually think there's freedom in that. Absolutely. Because when you recognize that, ultimately this is all God's, then you can practice Colossians 3.23. All right God, I'm gonna be aggressive in the marketplace for you. I'm gonna be humble in the marketplace for you. I'm gonna make sure that we have a company where our employees know they're not just numbers, they matter. Yes. Those kinds of testimonies, man, it can change everything. Absolutely. And you can make such a big difference. I remember when I was 21, I had a chance to get mentored by a guy who was the CEO of Ping. I remember that. Like Ping Golf. Someone. You know, and they're a big company. Yeah. And so I'm sitting in Phoenix, Arizona,

where we were living at the time, and I'm having lunch with my wife, like it was actually at our church, at this big courtyard area. So we're having lunch, and these two men walked by, and one of them was the senior pastor of this church. His name was Don Wilson. And then the guy with him was this dude named Doug, and he was the CEO of Ping. I didn't know that at the time. And so the pastor looks at me and says, hey, I think you guys should go to lunch sometime. And I was like, okay, great. I don't even know who this dude is. So I ask him, like, how do I get ahold of you? He's like, you know, Ping? I'm like, the golf thing? He's like, yeah. He's like, just call Ping. Like, what do you mean? What's the number? He's like, just Google Ping, and just call the headquarters, and you'll talk to me. So I call Ping's headquarters, and somebody answers. And I said, is Doug there? And they were like, you mean like the CEO of Doug? I'm like, yup.

He told me to call him. Sends me to Doug's office. He picks up. So number one story was like, that guy's leading a kajillion dollar company. You wanna talk about accessibility. That's wild, actually. It was insane. Yeah. So I go have lunch with this guy once a quarter for like the next year. You seriously got through to him that quick? I Googled Ping, called the company. That is wild. And I literally said, hi, is Doug there? Like, I felt like I was like eight years old calling for my friend to come over again. I promise that happened. Now come out and play. I promise that happened. So I sit down with this guy, and I'm asking him all these questions. And his story is, he started when Ping was this little company out of college. And his first job at Ping was to manage the guard dogs at their factory. Wow. And so he was picking up big Doberman, like feeding these Dobermans,

picking up their poop around the yard. Eventually works his way up to president and CEO. Wow. But I asked him, I said, man, what's the number one thing you could give me as a young guy who wants to make a difference, be a leader? And obviously I was thinking about this from a ministry perspective, but this is translatable for everybody. Obviously it was for Doug as he's a marketplace leader. And so I asked him the question, what's the number one thing? Sits back in his chair, thinks for a moment. He says, real simple, said three words, Landon. Grow your people. Grow your people. He said, if you commit as the leader to development of people in your organization, specifically people beneath you on the organizational chart, you'll never miss a metric. Yes. And I just was, man, it blew me away. Because it shifted my perspective to that stewardship mindset. Yes. Of, okay, God, not only is the money or the number. or the whatever in whatever I'm involved in from you, but also the people. Yeah. Do we think of stewarding people?

Stewarding people? Yeah. Man, that's how you make a big difference in life. Yes. That's what you're doing. I love that, MacWenda, you're growing people. Yeah. That's the heart. Yeah, and it's funny, you said that every person I've had on the show, you know, I try to tailor, I never try to ask the same question. I always hate that of like, interviews like, I already know what you're gonna ask, you know what I mean, like it doesn't feel personal, you know, but I typically ask them, okay, how did you, you know, cause I know what the entrepreneurs are wanting to hear. How'd you scale? What was your strategy? What's your secret? I'll ask them and, you know, every once in a while we'll get something interesting, but honestly, 90% of the time it's people. The right people, the right hires, investing in our people. And I actually had a guy on, and he's been on several times, a good brother of mine, he literally was a youth pastor. God told him to lay that down and for him and his wife to start a luxury handbag business. They resell handbags, like high-end handbags.

And I think they did 13 million last year. And he had no business experience, was literally a youth pastor. And now he gets to preach the gospel, travel the world and just, and they're seeing so much growth right now. He said, we haven't changed a single strategy. Haven't, just the right hires, investing in the right people and just developing them and growing them. And they have grown the business. And, but isn't that what Jesus modeled for us of this? Hey, yes, I'm ministering to the masses, but I'm going to spend the majority of my time with this 12 and even more with the three. You know, it's like, and you know, it's, that's how he's modeled for us. We're not going to do this without people. And yeah, can we, can we store them? Well, not just in, hey, do the task, but like, are we displaying Christ to them? You know, those five pillars, are they seeing that in our lives? I just wonder for the person listening to this, who's going, okay, I love, I love these, this thought and idea. I would love to do that. I don't know that I could say I have been doing these things. So how do you start new?

That's what I was going to ask. How do you start new right now? Is there a website they go to? Is there, how do they start to get this in their life and build it his way? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't even say selfishly, like we built what we call the Faith Hustle Network to help people with that. I'm like, all right, I want to do this. Partly for me, it's like, you got to get in the right room, in the right conversations of people who are thinking like this, because if not, because again, you're getting fed things all the time that are not this. So you have to get in rooms of people who are thinking like this, doing this. This is going to rub off you, right? And so, that's why we started doing our events. Our next event, well, depending when this comes out, is April 17th in Dallas, we'll have a networking event. And so you can meet people who are, they're thinking the same way. And, you know, it can be collaboration. And then we started our network, which is a membership, and it's about the cost of a dinner every month. And again, every week, we're doing two Zoom calls a week and giving people exposure to how people think about this and their strategies and how they're using biblical principles to build their business. And so practically, that's what we're doing to help

if people are like, hey, I don't know what to do. It's like, hey, we're going to get you in the right room with the right people who have gone before you, who've maybe been a little ahead of the journey to kind of give you those principles. But honestly, I mean- It's about community. It's about community. We're better together. Absolutely. We're networking. Absolutely. But we're doing something about it. Yeah. And we've got these ideas and we're going to network with each other. Absolutely. I mean, for me, it was like, I had to follow. I had to, I'll never forget this. My first business mentor, still so dear to me, a man named Dan Cobb in Michigan. He runs, I mean, multiple eight-figure agency and has been doing it for over 30 years. Did work for Chick-fil-A, Disney, helped launch the Passion of the Christ. Like just like credible, you know, you look at his display of work, Papa John's, like so much incredible things. But just a devoted follower of Christ, saw how he's, you know, raised his five kids

and grandkids and just, they've built orphanages through their agency. Just, I was just so inspired. I'll never forget it. One of their, because I believe some things are caught, not taught. Like there's some things like, yeah, you can read it in a book, but it's like, some things, yeah, you just got to, you just got to be around it. And so we were in a pitch and I, I was the youngest person in this pitch. Um, it was going to be to a large, large organization. I'm talking this, this bid was going to, it was going to be like 30 million a year for five years, guaranteed this RFP. And we were like top three. And I was on the pitch. We had several people on the pitch and, um, it's going well. And, you know, they grill you, they ask different questions. And one of the questions they asked her like, Hey, did you do this, this certain project was this you, or did you outsource this because they needed someone on the inside that can do a certain, I think it was like the PR. Um, and he immediately said, nope, that wasn't us. We, we, we outsourced that. That was a partner of ours, but that, that wasn't us internally. And that was the reason why we lost it. Now he could have said, yeah, we did that technically, but he made a rule in his company, we will never lie to, or lie for a client in advertising space, stretching the truth is just part of, unfortunately, it's just normal. People stretch the truth all the time, but he just has this conviction in his heart, no matter how much it costs me, I'm not going to do it, but I tell you what, the Lord blessed him from that and provided so much work after, even though we lost that big deal.

And I, that's what you can get when you are in proximity, when you catch it. And, and again, like, I think what you guys are doing in the men's events, like, like find another man who's doing that and you admire and, and go to coffee with him once a quarter. Why I started the podcast, I was doing that just over coffee and I just didn't have a mic, but now I'm doing, I'm doing the same thing. It's like, no, you got to get around it. You have to, you have to be hungry for it. Um, and you know, it's, you will model after what you see. Uh, and so the, the proximity matters. I guarantee you, there's guys listening right now to what you're saying into this podcast and their, their head is swimming right now with all these ideas. At the very least, I'm excited. This could be a catalyst for guys to, to do a faith hustle. Yeah, absolutely. I hope so. You know, one of the things I've learned over the years is, uh, like the body of Christ, body of believers, like it doesn't lack, you know, there's no shortcoming in it, even though we're flawed people, right? Christ makes it perfect. And so the answer to most of the questions that are maybe circling around in guys' heads right now is probably another person, you know, it's the reality is, is, is like when we have events and guys come in and they're, they're, they're trying to figure out how to survive as a young dad or grow a business, the answer is probably another man who knows and follows Jesus. And maybe it's a little further on down. And I think that's what you're doing with faith hustle is you're just, you're exposing that there are human beings who are doing this the right way. It might be the narrow path. In fact, it probably is the narrow path as opposed to the wide path.

That's what the scriptures say is few people take the narrow path. Right. But, but man, I just, I'm so excited to, to think about what this can mean for our audience and if they take these things seriously, like if they actually just say, after they listen to this, when I go into my workplace tomorrow, I am going to decide because you have to decide to do this different, if you just decide, well, that's a good idea and never put it into practice, nothing is going to change in your life. And so to finish this, one next step for our listeners, if they want to start this thing in their workplace today, to bring a visible change in their organization, in their classroom, on their team, what is that next step? Man, that's a great question. I'd say for me, the next step, get along with the Lord and get a vision from him. Get a, get a new vision for what it looks like and allow him to do that deep working you. I heard a business, business leader say this long time ago that when your values are clear decisions become easy and it just, it becomes second nature because you talked about it, you have to predecide. So even me, I was talking about doing business, God's way and integrity and I'm a firm believer that doing business in a way that Now that's a pre-decision, but that comes from a value system. So if someone's listening to this and they're feeling the conviction of Holy Spirit, which is a good thing. And they're like, man, my value system is not, whatever you're saying. It's not that it's not Colossians 3 23. It's not, it's like, okay, then that's, that's, that's a heart thing that we got to get right before the Lord. So I would say, Hey, go in the scriptures, get a fresh vision, study the parable of the talents and get a fresh perspective. Like, let that be the start of like, okay. And then I, I, I've done this.

I created a mantra for myself. Like this, this is, this is my standard of how I'm going to do business with the Lord and I'm not getting off of it. And, and make that, and just make that a focus. I, I had a pastor in my life at my church. He, he's, he called it define your lines. He's like, like define it. So no one else has to define it for you. Right. And so just, just develop, this is the value system for us is the five pillars. What are your five pillars? Like, like develop what that is, um, with the Lord through the scriptures. Um, and then from there, there's, there's other steps you can take, but start there because they're going to be temptations along the way, Joseph Adam and his place of work, there were temptations of women and of lust, then there's going to be temptations of greed, there's going to be tempted, but when you've pre-decided. I've already decided I'm not going to do this. I'm already decided I'm not going to lie or cheat to, to win or get ahead. I already decided, I know I can, but I'm not going to do it. I already decided. And they're like, Hey, we're going to go to happy hour. And you know, they're going to get drunk. I already pre-decided. It's already, it's already something that is in my value system. And it's an agreement I made with the Lord. So that would be my encouragement to anyone. There you have it. Inquire of the Lord. Inquire of the Lord. Yep.

Uh, if our listeners want to get involved specifically with faith, faith hustle, uh, your organization, what are the, how can they do that? So obviously we have our podcast. They can go on YouTube, uh, or Apple, Spotify. If you look up the faith hustle with one H, uh, yeah, one word, one H, uh, you'll find it, um, but we do have a network. We have a free and a, and a paid community, but it's, it's there as a resource just to give them the tools. We have hundreds of hours of content of all these incredible business leaders who speak into our community every week. And so I'd say that's a good next step. And then after that, if you're in the DFW area and soon we'll do it in other States, uh, but we're, we're doing monthly events here in the Dallas area. And so our next one's April 17th. Um, and then we'll do, I think end of May will be our next one. And so if you want to practically get in rooms with, with, with other business leaders who are like-minded, uh, I encourage you to come out to that. All right. Well, Maquinda, thank you so much for your time and, and man, God bless, uh, your organization and your ministry. And, uh, I'm, I'm thankful for your, uh, your presence in the, in the kingdom, man. Oh, I appreciate you brother. Oh, it's an honor. And just, I love what y'all are doing and just investing in the men. It's so necessary and just, I'm honored that you have me here. Hey, thanks for joining us on the Gaining Ground podcast. If you enjoyed today's content, it would help us a ton. If you could like this video, uh, click the subscribe button and turn on your notifications so you never miss an episode. Uh, if you're looking for more resources or how to get connected, please feel free

to look in the description below and find our website, gaininggroundmen.com. We'd love to connect with you there. We'll see you next time.