Old Man/New Man Podcast - Audry Oheim & Stephen Canup

created in righteousness and true holiness, the old man new man podcast with host Stephen Kenner. Hey, thanks for tuning in to the old man new man podcast. I'm here with my friend Audrey Oheim and we're going to have a great conversation today. We're already tickled, but the old man, that's a picture of the old man, but here is the new man. She has, I didn't ask her to bring a picture, but she was once the old woman and now a new woman in Christ. And that's what we want to talk about today really is, you know, being born again, if any man or woman be in Christ, they are a new creation. The old things have passed away and behold, all things have become new. So that picture is on the back of all my books. That's my first book right there, jail house religion, but the old man, new man, contrast. I look at that sometimes and I sometimes look at that picture. I said, I don't even believe that's the same person. Don't look at that at all. Now inside though, the even though the outside change is pretty remarkable inside, excuse me, inside the changes, even much, much more. Absolutely. So anyway, we want to have a discussion today that includes, you know, your old life before you got saved. Now let's, let's start it this way. When did you really surrender? When would you say you were truly born again? Truly, truly, for real, for real. I would say in 2020 actually, I walked it for a while, walked it and knew it here, didn't know it here. Yes. So I'd say 2020. Okay.

So what we want to talk about is your life, you know, prior to 2020, but then we do want to spend a fair amount of time, you know, after Christ, you know, the new creation because you have a lot of neat things going on in your life and your part of several ministries and you're actually starting your own ministry. And so we'll get to that and talk about all that. But I guess the first place to start is just tell us a little bit about your growing up and what life was like and just kind of give us your testimony. I'll try not to interrupt too much. You can interrupt all you want. Okay. All right. I grew up in a really small town, really small town here in Texas. And I was born into a really broken family, really, really broken. My mom struggled, my biological mom struggled with mental illness and her own struggles with addiction. And my biological dad, who we think is my biological dad, struggled with alcoholism. And so he was not in the picture. He actually did quite a bit of time in TDCJ for DWI's the Texas prison system. Yes, Texas prisons for DWI's. And so I really didn't know him still don't really know him know who he is. I've spent time around him, but I don't know him. And then she very quickly, because there were two little kids, she very quickly remarried and remarried a man who was a drug dealer and was come to find out a child predator for a lack of better terms. And very, very quickly began to be introduced to being molested and being raped and then being trafficked out of our house. And so that was my childhood. You were being trafficked. Wow. I was.

And then my mom dealing with her. When did that start? How old were you? Young. Five, six. Goodness gracious. He's he came into the picture when I was three. Yeah. And the sexual abuse from him started almost immediately. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Very, very quickly progressed. But other people weren't really introduced until I was about five or six. Wow. And she was also struggling on her own. She didn't want me. She didn't want me at all. She told me my whole life, I should have been an abortion supposedly tried to have an abortion with me, but it was too late, but did not want me. And so. You know, there's so many people that that unfortunately is part of their story. Correct. Very abusive, very, very abusive. I've had every bone on my body except my neck and my back broken. Oh my goodness. Some of them multiple times. I have pins in my hips from being pushed down stairs. My jaws pop. You know, if you name it, I've probably been through it, I've been burned with cigarettes and forced to take drugs and held my head under the bathtub, all sorts of stuff like

that. And so my world was literal hell on earth. Yes, it was. And I thought that was normal. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah, that's right. And so I thought that was everybody's normal until I was in school and I started realizing, oh, that's not how people's parents treat them. and very hopeless. Now I would go to school and put that face on. I was a student council president. The drum major. - Oh, you were? - I was. - How was the student council president? - I know, we're a lot more similar than you think. - I didn't know that about you. - Yes, I was all the things, drum major, student council president. - Yeah. - In the top part of my class, I succeeded when I went to school because that was my escape. But meanwhile, my-- - That's where you got validation too, probably. - Positive. - Affirmation or validation. - Absolutely. Because I was smart. I am smart. - Yeah. - And so I did very well in school, but behind the scenes, nobody saw what was going on. And by the time I was a senior in high school, I had had a stillborn when I was 15 at 23 weeks because my mother had beaten me. And that was actually fathered by my stepfather.

Long story there. And then I had had three forced abortions and they were not-- - Three forced abortions. - Forced abortions. - Four forced abortions. - They were not in a facility. - Oh, wow. - So they caused a lot of damage, which eventually led to me having a hysterectomy when I was 28 years old. And so there are still ripple effects of the things that happened to me in my life. But God, but God. - Yeah, we might as well go ahead and say that that is a favorite expression. - It is, it's actually on my shirt. - Is it? (laughing) - But God, those are my two favorite words. - I love it. - Thank you. - I love it. - I actually got it tattooed on my body not too long ago, so. - Mm-hmm. - But when you put "but God" together, it's my two favorite words in the English language. - Yes. - But God. - Yes. - But that was my growing up. And I actually left the day before my senior year of high school. Now I know it was a Holy Spirit, but then I didn't know. I just had this. - So you just kind of

left Renee from home. - I did. I did. I was walking by. - The day before your senior. - It was the Sunday before my senior year of high school started. - I see. - And I was walking by, my mom had this really impossible list of things for me to do. She really liked to do that. Give me this really long list and about this much time to do it. - Oh, wow. - And I was walking by, carrying these suitcases to go put them up. And when I walked by, she hit it and it hit me in the face. And there was just this. And I was like, what are you doing? And she ended up having me up against a wall by my throat. And I heard this go. And so I knew the second she let go, I had to get out. I didn't know. - The Holy Spirit. - Yes. - Wow. - And I took off, I took off Renee and it was super small town. So it was like two blocks to the police station. But I took off Renee and my bathing suit and no shoes and bloody nose. And I just, I walked in and I said,

I don't care what you do, but if you make me go home, I'm gonna, I'm going to end my life. I'm not staying there anymore. But being 17 and almost 18, they let me leave. - Well, my goodness. And where did you go? What'd you do then? - I bounced around a little bit. I stayed with some friends, stayed with some people from the church I had been going to, 'cause I went to youth group to get out of the house. - Yes. - And I could tell, oh, you want me to look up Habakkuk, Zephaniah? I could tell you where those bobble books were, but. - Most people don't know where they, I still have a hard time in what order they are. I know they're in the end of the Old Testament. - Yes. - I know that. - I knew it. - Excuse me. - But I didn't know it, right? So anyway, it just. - Did you used to do the bobble drills? Did y'all have those in church? - No, not really. - Where you looked up verses who could find the verse

of Gwekus? - No, but I only started going in high school. - Yeah. - And so I stayed with some people from church and kind of got into some interesting situations there of people kind of, we're letting you stay here, so you need to do this for me. Kind of situation. And so ended up actually sleeping on a mattress in my student council sponsors bedroom for the last like four months of my senior year. She let me move in. She had three kids, a single mom, shout out to her. She's amazing, but she let me live there and I graduated. And I was always told you're stupid. You're never gonna make anything of yourself. You're never gonna do anything. And so I decided to go to college. - You did. - I said, I'm gonna spite you and I'm gonna go college. - Yes, I'm gonna just show you. - Yes. And so I did, I did. - Where'd you go to college? - West Texas A&M, they're in Canyon. - Oh, okay. - So that wasn't too far from where you lived or? - I wanted to go farther, but I got a really good scholarship as a musician.

And so I'm actually an oboe player, classically trained musician. That's why I put myself through college. - Oboe. - Oh my goodness. - I'm full of fun facts. - You are full of fun facts. I know you play the keyboard and sing with us in prison. - Yes. - It's beautiful. - So I went to college and then I-- - What did you major in? - Music education. - Okay. - So I taught for eight years. - You taught music? - I did. I taught elementary music for eight years. - Really? The first school where I was for seven of those eight years was a Title I school, so very low income, very low socioeconomic status. A lot of kids like I was, and I loved it. But I had 700-- - So you could relate to so many of 'em, for sure, yeah. - But I had 700 of them, to one me. So after about seven years, I was like, "Okay, it's time to do something else." So-- - Yeah. - So, you found yourself, what was your,

your teen years, while you were still living at home, I've heard you say you were on the streets a lot. - I was being a little hood rat, that's what I like to say. - A hood rat, thank you. - Now, let me clarify, the small town, the small town I lived in, we didn't really have the streets, right? But I was out doing things that shouldn't be doing. - You shouldn't be doing that. - Right, and so I was drinking and smoking weed, all those fun things you shouldn't be doing. But a lot of what I was doing was actually self-inflicted. I was self-harming, a lot, a lot. I was cutting myself, the same girl who introduced me to youth group, introduced me to self-injury. - Oh, wow. - And so, but I found that it gave me that relief. - Wow, I'm, unfortunately, I imagine a lot of people, some people that may be watching. - Right. - You know, can relate to that as well. What did you find, so you went to church. - I did. - But you said you had, had knowledge, but not really a heart knowledge. So, what was your life like? So you were teaching,

and was life kind of normal then? Or were you married, did you get married? - No, I've never been married, I'm single. Life was, I guess, I guess you would call it normal. I, looking back, I realized, wow, I was really not okay in some of those areas, but you don't know what you don't know, until you know it. - Right. - And so, God brought some really amazing people into my life that came alongside me and helped me get through college, and they would try to mention counseling. Like, hey, maybe you should go talk to a professional, and I was like, I don't need that. - Talk to somebody, yeah. - I don't need that. But when I started teaching and I got insurance, I started going to counseling. - You did. - And realized, oh, wow. (laughs) - I do need this. Anybody that's, I mean, that is so much trauma for someone to go through. - Correct. - And I have heard some awful details of things that you've been put through. So, going to the counseling started getting you healed on the inside.

Is that right? - Yes. - Some of the trauma. - Absolutely. - And were you mad at God? Were you following God, or were you mad at him? - I was following God. - Yeah. - From a distance. - From a distance. - So like Matthew, I mean, kind of like Peter says when they were, this is not even funny, but when they were taking Jesus, you know, to Pilate or no to the chief priest, he says, "Matthew followed from a distance." And that's such a heartbreak, you know, it's like sometimes we follow from a distance. - Right, right. - But so what was that like then? - So I got really good at performing, really good at performing. And I could be that church girl. I was at that church girl. - Oh, okay, okay. - I actually went on a walk to Mayas when I was a freshman in college. As soon as my freshman year was over. - Now walk to Mayas, for those that are in prison,

you may have heard of chyros. And that is the prison, inside prison form of walk to Mayas. - Correct. - Okay, so go ahead. - So I went there, and the Lord really started where I hadn't cried for 11 years before I went on my walk. And there was a moment in that walk that I lost it. - Really? - And the tears really haven't stopped flowing since then. But I still walked in that. I know it here. And I would serve, and I would go, and I would do things, but it still felt so empty. Like it didn't mean anything. And it was helpful for other people, but it didn't really mean anything because I didn't really know him. I knew him, but I didn't know him. And so from an outside perspective, it probably looked like everything was great, because I was serving and being a musician. - Like you say you could put your mask on or whatever. - Right. - Be what everyone expected you to be. - Correct. - But inside, that was not fulfilling.

It couldn't have been. - No, inside, I was exhausted. And I felt nothing changed, really. I felt depressed. I was struggling with depression and anxiety. And I just felt kind of, like I would go and serve and do all the things. And I started doing encounter the crosses. And I would be, yeah, you Jesus. And then I would go home and smoke weed before my head hit the pillow at night. - Oh, wow. - Because I was so miserable. - So encounter the crosses. I've been to both the walk to Mayas and encounter the cross and counter the cross. So I like to say, it's kind of like a walk to a maya. So Holy Ghost, definitely. Yeah, there's a lot more about the Holy Spirit and the power of God in that weekend. What did you find? What was it that finally got you really sold out and born again? Tell us how did, how did all that happen? You're saying that was basically six years ago. So we're recording this in 2026. So in 2019, I was in a season of transition. I had left the church where I was previously, but didn't really quite know where to go. And I loved going to church. I love the community. I love serving, but I didn't really know where to go. And there was this church that people kept inviting me to actually some very, very dear people to me. And I kept telling them, I don't want to do that. I don't want to go there. I've actually kind of found myself doing the same thing here in Lubbock, but we'll talk more about that later. But then this was in another city. This was in Amarillo. Amarillo. I lived in Amarillo until two years ago, actually. Oh, see, a lot of this is new to me. Right. I'm not a, I've only known you a year. It's true. And it's mainly from you going into the prisons where there's a few times. Correct. I know your stuff. Yeah, I've kind of adopted you now. That was a spiritual daughter. You adopted me. We can't get rid of

each other, I guess. We're stuck. It's good to have people who are stuck. That's right. It's not bad stuff. Yeah. So what happened? Somebody asked you to go to church in Amarillo. So they asked me to come lead worship for their women's conference. And I was like, fine. Okay, I'll go do it. Just to shut you up, I'll come do it. Right. And I told the Lord. So you could do worship, but your heart really wasn't even in worship. Is that true? Or was that your one area where you really turned to yourself to God? Looking back now, I can see that it was the one area that I was like, oh, okay, this is what we're talking about. Right. Now you're gifted. So you're, if you're operating in your gift, it must have been fulfilling. But you didn't really want to... I don't want to be there. Be upfront. No. But I said, I would do it. And I told the Lord, I just knew there was something about this church. And I told the Lord, if you want me to go here, I need you to make it very clear. Okay. And so the... You know what? He's not afraid of a challenge. He's not. And the second day of the conference, the little pastor's wife, who's five foot two, comes bebop and up to me and says, well, my name is Laura. And I don't know if you have a church home, but if you don't, we would love to have you. But if you do, that's okay. Thank you for being here. And I just knew. I was like, I asked and you provided answer you. Yes. And that body of believers. Wow. They took me bumps, warts, scars, all of that. Yes. So then when COVID happened, my pastor and his wife, their adult children, they have four adult children who are all married, they all lived at that time in other cities. And so they really didn't have anybody that was there. My, well, I'll get into that in a second, but her parents lived there, her dad lives there and her sister and brother, but their kids didn't live there. And so when the world shut down, they didn't really, they were kind of their own little thing. And I was by myself. Well, they knew that. And so they invited me to just come spend time with them. And so during COVID, we spent almost every day together. So a lot of people will say they're COVID cursed. I was COVID blessed. I was COVID blessed. But in that it was people that actually saw me. Not on the, on the days where I wasn't okay. Yeah. And the masks, they saw you. They saw me. And they wanted to love you and accept you anyway. I think they didn't quite know what they were signing up for. Yeah. Right. Because if you've never walked with somebody who's been through intense trauma, you don't really know what you're signing up for. And so there were hard moments. There were moments where I was yelling at them. And they just kind of stood there and looked at me where I was like pushing hard because it felt scary. And they just stood there and loved me,

loved me through it. Yeah. These were the pastors of that church. Yes. The pastor and his wife. More blessing. And there was one day where we were just talking and it just kind of it clicked. And I was like, oh, this is what Jesus is like. And I just encountered him. And I was like, this is what I want this. Yeah. This is what I want. That's good. And so surrendered my life to Jesus and just turned it over and said, here you go. Oh, Christ the Lord. And then got baptized and Never looked back. Now, to make a long, long story short, those two people have since legally adopted me. - They have. - Yes. - Oh, price comes. - Yes. They invited me over in like March of 2021 to have dinner. And I was sitting there and the gentleman looked at me and he said, "Well, we have a question for you. "And if you don't know about me, I'm a little sassy, "just about this much." And he looked at me and he said, "So how would you feel about becoming a part of our family?" And I just replied, "Well, I thought I already was." - Really? Like, I've been with you every day from here. - I've been here. Don't forget COVID. - Right. I've been here. Like, I thought I already was. And he goes, "No, I mean, really, "how would you feel about being a part of our family?"

And I was like, "What are you talking? "I'm 30 years old. "Like, what are you talking about?" So he opens this box and there's this ring in here. And he said, "We want to legally adopt you." - Really? - And when I tell you I lost it, I lost it. (laughs) - That you did? What a shock. - I lost, yes. And it was very easy to legally adopt an adult. Just want you to know. Very easy. - It is? - Very, very easy. Because there's no red tape, like there are with children. So we filled out some forms, paid like $300. And then two months later, we're sitting in front of a judge on Zoom. And I then became from Audrey Elizabeth Jones to Audrey Joy Oheim. - So. - Oh, wow. - Yeah. - That's so cool. - They asked, of course I knew my last name was gonna change, but they asked if they could change my middle name. And I didn't care. And I said, "Well, what do you want to change it to?"

And my dad looked at me and he said, "Joy, because that's who you are." - Yeah. - And I just ran with it. - That's great. - Yeah. - How'd that make you feel to be wanted like that? - Oh, it was so confusing at first, because I kept thinking. - Really? - Is there a catch? - Right? They're gonna turn around and leave. - Zero, yeah. - What do they want from me? But they wanted nothing. - Oh, no. - Other than just to love me. - Yeah, just to love you. Praise God. That's just got me crying over here. Yeah, that's great. So at some point, you must have shifted from teaching elementary music. - I did. - 'Cause I know now that you're a counselor. - Yes. - So how did all that happen? Or what made you go into counseling and-- - Great question.

- So did you, and as part of this question, talked to us a little bit more about the counseling you went through and how that impacted you. - Absolutely. - 'Cause there's a lot of people. I've had counseling. There's a lot of people that have, or at least could benefit from it. - Absolutely. - So spend a few minutes talking to us about that. - So the counseling, I went to one counselor for a couple of years and she was great. But you know, you kind of hit a level at some point where you need to change, and that's all that person can do for you. So I went to a counselor that offered a specialized trauma therapy. - Okay. - And that is really what helped me do a lot of the trauma work. And so, I was going through that as a teacher. - Trauma work inside for yourself. - Correct. And I was going through that while I was teaching, and still struggling, still having pretty severe bouts with depression. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, and complex post-traumatic stress disorder. - Oh, wow. - Neither of those, which I identify with any longer.

- Thank you, you've been sent free. - Yes. - Amen. - Yes. - Yeah, I was suicidal depression for years and diagnosed bipolar and all that. - Exactly. And so she really helped me start working with that. - Oh, old man. - Exactly. I need to bring an old Audrey. - Yeah. - You know, the black hair. - Right. - And my ears, I hate everybody, you know, 'cause I was angry. Oh, I was angry. - I bet you were. - And I had to fight because if nobody was gonna take care of me. - Oh, you could fight. - I could fight. I would take my earrings off and be like, "You wanna go post up, like I'll fight you." (laughing) But-- - It's hard to imagine, actually. - Well, thank you. (laughing) I know people don't believe me sometimes,

and I'm like, "Listen, I can show you." - Right. - But, you know, I started really digging in and really doing the work. And I actually did ketamine. - In other words, you wanted freedom. - I did, I wanted freedom. I just don't know how to get there. - Was this a Christian counselor? - The second one, yes. - Okay. - Yes. - So they were helping you walk through biblically. - Yes. - Healing of the hurts wounds and offenses, so many of them that you must have accumulated over the years. - Correct. And she, I mean, she's still my therapist. I'll still see her every once in a while. - Oh, good, okay. But in that, I realized how truly deep the depression was, and I actually started doing ketamine therapy, which was amazing and changed my life, but in the midst of that-- - I don't know what that is. Ketamine, what is that? - Ketamine, some of y'all have probably fallen down a K hole, you know what I'm talking about? Ketamine is a horse tranquilizer, but it's also a street drug.

- Oh, it is, okay. - But what they have found is in therapeutic settings with a doctor or a nurse, things like that, the ketamine actually helps rewire some of those neuro pathways and can help with treatment resistant depression, 'cause that's what it was. No medication was working. I tried all of them, they weren't working. So I did that. - But that helped. - And that helped, but it took away the walls that I had built. And so I actually was in my last year of teaching, thought I was gonna teach forever, but had moved schools and was in a very toxic work environment. - Oh, you were. - And had a boss that just about drove me to the point of wanting to end my life, to be quite honest. - Oh goodness. - And I started praying, Lord, what do you want me to do? Lord, what do you want me to do? And all I heard was quit at the end of the year. So I stuck it out, thank you, Jesus. And then I thought, well, where do I go from here? And so I actually started teaching private music lessons and it took off, like quickly. - Oh really? - I had 60 students, like that. - Oh my goodness. - And so it was flourishing.

And one day I was driving home from therapy and he goes, this is what I want you to do. And so I said, okay, Lord, if this is what you want me to do, I don't want to have to pay a lot of money for school. 'Cause I'd already gone for a first master's degree. I have a master's degree in education. - Oh, let's back up. You were driving home from therapy and he said, this is what I want you to do. It wasn't teaching music lessons, it was be a therapist. - Correct. - Okay. - And I was like, did I hear you right? Because I had just graduated, not six months before with a master's degree in educational leadership to become a principal. - Really? - Right. - And I've got a bachelor's and now a master's to become a principal. - Right. - So you thought your career was set in that direction? - I did, I was ready, I was ready to be a principal. Can you imagine me as a principal? - Actually, I can. - Oh, well good. (laughs) - Actually, I can't. - Well, thank you. But that just wasn't where I was supposed to be.

And so I told the Lord, if you want me to go back, I don't want to pay a lot of money for school because I've just done that. And he opened the door. I paid very minimal for school, but he opened the door and I ended up going to Liberty University. - Oh, really? - Yes. Christian University. - Is that like online? - Yes. I did it fully online. - Yeah. - And decided to go-- - That's fully accredited and everything. That's a big time university. - Yes. I decided to go for clinical mental health counseling so that I could become a licensed professional counselor. - Wow. - And so that took me two years. And when it came time for my internship, my practicum and internship. I don't know why this is making me emotional. - Um, side note, I had wanted to move to Lubbock for seven years. - Now, Lubbock is 120 miles south of Amarillo. - Yes. - So you had been living this time in Amarillo. - Correct.

- And for seven years, I'd been wanting to move to Lubbock and I had tried to get teaching jobs here and he just kept closing the door, closing the door. Well, it was time for me to get a practicum and internship. I had to start applying there in Amarillo 'cause I had no thoughts of moving and every door got closed in my face. - Hmm. - Every single door. And I was in a therapy session with my therapist and I said, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? And she said, Audrey, you've always talked about Lubbock. Why don't you look in Lubbock? And so I literally googled Christian counseling agencies, Lubbock, Texas and Shiloh came up. - Which is where you work now. - Yes. And so I remember sitting on my front porch of my house and I typed out an email to them and just said, hey, this is me, this is who I am. Don't know if you're accepting anybody. And long story short, God opened the door and I moved to Lubbock in June of 2024 and started my counseling internship. - So really, that's just two years ago, yeah. - And I had no idea. - So you started your internship as a counselor and say, what does, does that take a whole year to do that or two years or what?

- It takes three semesters. So you have your practicum first and then you have two semesters of internship but it's basically the same thing. So it takes three semesters. - Okay. - And so I did that and I graduated in August of 2025 with my master's degree and before I had even graduated months before, this was probably before I met you actually. April or May, my supervisor then said, hey, we know you haven't graduated yet but we are offering you a job. - Really? - So I knew I had a job months in advance. - Wow. - And so they wanted to keep me. - Yes. - And then my parents knew how much the specialized training that I had gone through meant to me and how they saw the change in my life. And so for my birthday and Christmas, Praise the law. And so I'm able to utilize it every day. And it's made me incredibly marketable. And especially trauma. It's called EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, which is why we call it EMDR. Yeah, please. But it's a specialized trauma therapy, modality. And so they blessed me with that.

And I've been walking with people through that for about the last year. You're amazing. Uh, I want to go back to just a little bit. I know that in the last, uh, well, in the last year, how, how is it that you felt led to go? So it's been a little over a year that you went with us the first time on a prison ministry, a prison crusade revival weekend. And, um, that was in, um, the Gatesville women's units. We did a Murray and, uh, Woodman. And that was your first time. That was a May of 2025. Yes. Now, how did you come about? Did you ever dream that you'd go to prison? No, I mean, I'm never going to. Don't make those intervals. Don't do it. Um, never say never. Yeah. I had actually gone to a prison in, uh, 2005. Now you, you did plenty of things illegal, but you never got caught. And went to, went to prison that way, but. Exactly. But now as the, as the new you, yes. Okay. Now tell us about that. So we had gone to visit my ex stepdad in 2005. And I said, then I'm never going back into another prison. Because your ex, your ex stepdad was in prison at the time. Yes.

In Oklahoma for the things that he had done to me. Oh, okay. And so, um, my biological mom being the way she was took us to visit. And I said, then I'm never going back into another prison. I'm never doing it. Well, I actually did go back in like 2011 or 2012. You know, as a victim, they shouldn't even allowed you to go. Thank you. Thank you. No way. No, but I went. Yeah. And I actually went to the roach unit in either 2011, 2012. First time I ever got slain in the spirit. So the roach unit and children's and children's texts. I went in with the ministry. I couldn't tell you what ministry it was. They pulled me in last minute to lead worship. Oh, but, um, even then I was like, I don't know if I'll ever do this again. So to answer your question last year, the church, I was attending, kind of in a transition. Anyway, they posted their mission trips for the year. Oh, yeah. And I looked at that and went, Hmm, Texas prison and Holy Spirit said, go. And one thing about me, when Holy Spirit says to do it, I'm about my father's business. I don't question it and I'll go. And so everything in me was like, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. You know, and so we did our team meetings and Frank and Rose were like, you can do this.

They were the team leaders. Yes. And Frank saw it in me. Yeah. He saw it. He clocked it before I ever clocked. We've actually done podcast interviews with Frank Amazon and his wife, Rosita, Amazon. Yes. And there were times I wanted quick. So I was like, I don't know if I'm made for this. He's like, just do it. Yeah. And he told me straight up your yes is yes. So you've made this commitment. And so I said, okay. And when we went to Gatesville that first night, you probably couldn't have told, but you also didn't know me super well then. No, I didn't know you at all. I was very nervous, but I can like talk and be up. Oh, yeah. And so I was very, very nervous. I could hide that. Yes. And the next day when we went into Woodman, we went to the dog pound. Which is where they process you when they first start processing you in. Yes, it's kind of like segregation. Right. And we went into the dog pound and it hit, it hit me. I had been praying, Lord, break my heart for what breaks yours.

And I knew I had a purpose. I knew I had a calling. I just didn't know what it was. Yeah. And in that moment, standing there face to face with those young women who are in this cage and they're being treated like animals, just come out of county going into some of them for the first time going into state prison. Yes. And then having their hands on the gate, just. They call it the dog pound because it's actual wire like you make a fence out of. Correct. And it broke me. It broke my heart and not because I felt sorry for them, because they don't feel sorry for you. But it brought the humanity back of. There's literally no reason that I shouldn't be sitting right where these women are. That's right. Well, and we say this all the time, the main difference between those in the free world and those in prison is the ones in the free world. Just hadn't been caught yet. Correct. Yeah. So it just, it broke something in me, but it broke me in the best way. It lit a fire and I knew that I. that prison ministry is not my calling. Yeah, you can try all day long. But you're not going to convince me because I know that I know that I know. I know we worked you a lot here at your keyboard. I'm really good at tearing it down and putting it up really quickly. You got really fast.

We were Senator from one unit all the way to the other unit and then back to this unit and I hadn't even considered how heavy those keyboards are and stuff like that, but you went with us then again in March, which is about nine months later. This was March was we're in June right now. So you went with us to Marlin, Texas. We went to the Marlin in one unit. Yes. And also the Woodman unit in Gatesville. So we kind of did both. And then you went with us just a month ago back to Gatesville, yes, to the Woodman unit and the Murray unit. And I've gone with you. October of last year, I think to clinics. Yes, got to go in there too. So that's the men's maximum security prison in Amarillo, Texas. Yes. Yeah. So you're, you're convinced that prison ministry is your calling. Absolutely. Amen. And, and God has given you a, a vision for, to start a ministry. Yes. And tell us about that. So the ministry is called but God ministries. But I almost gave you away a little while ago. But God ministries, um, I used to be this way, but God, exactly. Every testimony starts with the but God. Yeah. Every single one, that transition from the old man to the new God. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. And it's based on the Genesis 50, 20. Yeah. That what the enemy intended for evil, the Lord will use for good. Oh, yes. He will use for good. And I saw that come full circle, full circle, just about three weeks ago. Tell them about that. So, um, I was invited by another ministry that we love dearly weighed in the water, living ministries from Oklahoma, Ron and Laura Wade. They go into Oklahoma, um, DOC. So shout out Oklahoma brothers and sisters. Right. Um, they invited me and Armando and Christina Garza, Garcia. Yeah, which we've had them on the podcast. See, yeah, to come in and Mr. Leroy Little to come in and do worship and speak. And I didn't quite. Oklahoma prisons Ron and Laura Wade are precious. Love them. Um, I didn't realize where I was going. You didn't the first night or the first unit. I knew where I was going, but it didn't click. It clicked when we drove up in their van. I got really quiet. I got really quiet because when we pulled up, we pulled up to James Crabtree, which was the prison that 19 years and 11 months to the day before, I had been in visiting my ex step down. Oh my gosh. The very same place.

Very same. Where I said a minute ago, they shouldn't have let the victim go. Exactly. And you went back to that very prison into that same exact prison. And in the process though, he had passed away. No, he is still alive. He's still alive. My biological mother has passed away. You're biologic. He's still alive. He's actually in Oklahoma. Oh, he is, but he's not in that prison. Correct. Yeah. So he's actually still in Oklahoma. But I got really quiet and it wasn't a scared quiet. It wasn't a anything negative quiet. It was a only God could do this. Wow. Only God could set that up. Yes. And the thing about that particular. Were you afraid? Were you scared? No, not at all. Did you look at it as a chance for healing? Or was that the result or what? Absolutely. I looked at it as, OK, I have a choice to make here. I can get really scared and go internal and say, mmm, this is

uncomfortable, or I can face the hard things, which is what I tell my clients to do all the time. Yeah, I can face the hard thing and feel it and let it heal. Oh, wow. And so I had a choice to make. And the thing about that particular prison is quite a few of the sex offenders in Oklahoma are sent to that prison. And so what I didn't know, I mean, I kind of knew what I didn't realize is I was going to be standing in the exact same place where my ex stepfather had been. And so I was, I went into that, that. Amazing, beautiful place. And stood there and gave those men hope and could stand there and say, you know what? If I can stand me, yeah, everything you were. Yes, and I should hate you. Yeah, if I can stand here and tell you about the love of Jesus and genuinely feel the love of Jesus for you. Amen. And not feel, oh, you deserve to be here. No, but there's nothing but genuine pure Jesus love for them. Amen. If he can do it for me, he can do it for anybody. He can. But what happened in that moment? and he said, "You know, we don't have many people "share their testimonies inside, the brothers "in orange there because of their offenses, "because they're so embarrassed and ashamed." He said, "So for you to come in here

"and to unlock that door and to give us permission "so that we can share our testimonies, "you have no idea what you did here today." And I said, "Well, it's not me, it's him, "but I'm grateful." - Praise the Lord. - And so that opened the door for them. So it was not only healing for me, but it was healing for them. - Yeah. - But God-- - God is so good. - He's so good. - He's so good. - He's so good. - Well, as we get ready to kind of, you know what, we're gonna have to do a part two or something. - I'm in. - This is going, it's going my way too fast. But as we get ready to do that, what, I'm sure there are some parts of your life, your story, your advice that if you wanted to just, you know, speak directly to the prisoners, anyone, male or female that might be watching this, you know, what would you tell them or what would be your advice? And take a few minutes to do that and don't rush. But then we'll probably wrap it up and I'll have you kind of pray this out.

- Okay. - Is that okay? - Absolutely. - All right, good. - The first thing I would say is be honest. Be honest with where you're at, because we feel the pain, right? We all go through things. We're all running from something. You're where you are for a reason, right? And the only difference between me and you is I didn't get caught. But I know for me, I was out there and I was running and I was trying to numb that pain that I was feeling. And so my first piece of advice is to be honest. Be honest with where you're at, acknowledge the pain, but turn it over to him. - Yes. - Turn it over to him. You don't have to stay a victim. You don't have to stay broken. You don't have to stay isolated. You don't have to stay bound in those chains. Stand up, do the work. But also, it's gonna make me emotional. Let yourself be loved. - Yeah. Let yourself be in community. And I know that sounds weird. You're in a prison, right?

But there are brothers and sisters around you that genuinely do care. - That's right. - That genuinely do love you. And genuinely do want to walk beside you. You might have to take a minute to find them, but go to chapel. Now we know, we know, some people are there just to get out of there, but we know that. But there are people there that have genuine arms, correct, and let yourself be loved. Because I will tell you, I love my parents, I love my family, but I have gotten so much healing in the last year of my life, doing life with people. Who meet you where you are? Who see you, who will hold you accountable? Get in community. Find that community. But more than anything else, Jesus. - Yeah. - If you can't find community, it's okay. If you feel like you can't do it, it's okay. The number one thing that I'm gonna encourage you to do is run hard and fast after Jesus. Because a lot of times we think, well, he turned his back on me. I'm out here doing all this, and where was he? Where was he when in reality? You're the one that turned around and ran away. I was the one that turned around and ran away,

and he's standing there going, "I'm right here. I'm right here. Come back to me. I love you. I'm right here." So I'm gonna challenge you to turn around. Because like we-- - That's called repentance. - Right, repentance. - Right, turn around, yeah. - Turn around, and let that shame fall off. You are not the sum of what you've done. You're not. - Or what's been done to you. - Or what's been done to you, correct. - So many people struggle with, where was God when I was getting abused? - Right, he was right there. - Yeah, you know what, he took abuse. - He did, and that's the thing about free will. If he's gonna give us free will, he's gotta give us all of it. - And unfortunately, sinful people exercise their free will to hurt others. - Correct, yeah. - But God, and he will do things in your life. He will do things in your life. Go back and listen to some of the testimonies of people that have been sitting in these chairs, but he will do things in your life that will blow your mind. He will bring about situations. I will tell you to be quite frankly honest. Other than Jesus, there's no reason that you and I should be sitting here.

- No, no, because my. - Correct. - Yeah. - There's no answer, but Jesus, that would do this. - That's right. - But God, and now we go shoulder to shoulder into the prison. - It could change us both, you know. - Exactly. - And forgive us. - Exactly. - And so Jesus, because there is freedom in Jesus. - That's right. - Right, and he can take that and turn it into that. - Amen. - That's but God. - Yeah. - So that's my advice. - That's good. - That's good. I want you to, if you would, just pray for us. I feel like there's other things I should ask you, but we may have to have a part two. - Let's do a part two, I'm in. - And my nose is running 'cause I've got allergies, but also you're making me cry. - That's what I do. - It's your fault. (laughing) - It's your fault.

Okay, well, I'd say, why don't you pray so? - Okay, awesome. Father, I just thank you so much, God. I thank you for Jesus, first of all. - Yes. - Father, I thank you that Jesus was beaten and bloodied and just tortured for us so that we could come to you, Lord, so that the freedom is here. And so, Father, we thank you first and foremost for Jesus. And God, I thank you for my brothers and sisters who are watching or listening to this, God. And I pray for a radical encounter. I pray that you meet them right where they are and mess them up, wreck them so that they turn to you. I pray for but God moments where they were one way and now they're the other. And the only thing that changed in the middle was but God was Jesus. And Father, I thank you, I thank you for them. I thank you for their willingness to click play on a video. I thank you that they have access to be able to hear the word of God, not necessarily just through me, but through others, Father. I thank you for what you're doing, God. And I thank you for the freedom and the healing that you were bringing, God. I pray for shame to fall off. Shame off you, my brothers and sisters. - That's right. - You're not the total of what you've done

or what's been done to you. - Amen. - You are a, if you accept him, you are a child of God. So I pray for freedom, I pray for healing, I pray for release over my brothers and sisters and wife. And what an honor it is to spend just a few minutes with you. And what an honor it is for us to be able to come inside and love on you and show you the love of Jesus. So Father, I thank you for what you've done in this place today, God. I thank you for who you are. And we thank you, Lord, for freedom in Jesus. - Thank you, Jesus. - And we ask all this in Jesus' name, amen. - Amen. - Wow. What a great time we did. (laughing) Well, thank you for tuning in. I wanna remind you that I've got all my books for free, for free reading on your tablets, both in panda books and also in adobo. If you have that and check them out. And I'm a teacher. So I'm always trying to share with others what God's been teaching me. So I didn't invite you to do that. And until next time, God bless you. And we're so thankful for you, Audrey. - Thank you.

- And we'll have to do this again. - Amen. - Okay. Come into a prison near you. We hope it wasn't great. - Yes, absolutely. - At least by video. Okay, God bless you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (dramatic music) [MUSIC PLAYING]