When Success Isn't Enough | Aggressive Life with Brian Tome

and everything that just has not come to pass. So I think it looks great. The whole gray on gray, everything. Oh, man. Are you in mourning? It was bleak. Gray on gray. Oh, my God. Everything OK, Brian? I know it's not OK. My life has sucked the last seven months. No, it's not OK. Actually, it's getting OK right now, but. [LAUGHTER] Welcome to the aggressive life. Good news and bad news. You're not in control. That's good news and bad news. Bad news because you're not in control. Good news is because the way I can live an aggressive life is I believe that there is a God who is in control. That God may not be doing everything that I want him to do. He may not be doing everything I agree with him doing. He may not be doing things that I want him to do. But grappling with who is in control is a critical spiritual formation issue in you living the kind of life that'll make a difference. Actually, on our next episode, I'm going to spend a whole time talking about this. Talking about that aspect with my buddy Windex.

But that's what we're doing today. Today, I'm with a new guest. And I believe a new budding friend. His name is Drew Lynch. Talk about things that you couldn't see happening. You didn't have control of. He had a softball accident. Jardah's brain a bit. Gave him a stutter. And he's a very sought after incredible comedian. I still don't believe Drew that you have a stutter. Because I've watched some of your stuff. I don't pick up any stutter at all. Let him speak for himself in just a minute. But the reason why Drew came on my radar is two reasons. One, he contacted us saying, hey, I'm going to be in Columbus doing a show. Can I come to man camp? And we said, oh, I don't know what God's will be. Should Drew Lynch come to-- OK, yes, you can come to man camp. And then I found out my day job at Crossroads Church. A gal who opens up for him as a part of our church and said, yeah, Drew's coming here. So anyway, we got a guy on here who's living a really aggressive life. He's overcoming a lot of obstacles. He's having success in an arena that's pretty cool. So welcome to the aggressive life, Drew Lynch. Thank you, Brian.

What an intro. I do hope to be more aggressive at the end of this podcast. Well, I am going to do my best to make you aggressive. I think you're a pretty darn aggressive already. Thanks. Take me back to the origin story. What's the origin story of Drew Lynch? Yeah, sure. I was a C-section. I don't know how far back you want to go. I was a cesarean, which sounds like an island off of Italy. It sounds beautiful, cesarean. I'm cesarean, my mother's Greek, but I'm cesarean. My father's side. I go to the San Genaro Festival. No, I honestly-- so the reason that I didn't want to talk-- I talk a lot about my origin story. I've done a million podcasts right now. Do I haven't heard it? It's all about me. If I haven't heard it, then I haven't heard it. Brian, go research. I'm not going to talk about it. Maybe you have a whole new audience here that could take you to next level. We could just be a little less of a selfish rap bastard. I'm like, just share your story. Dude, how did you know that I have a selfish rap bastard tattoo? You know him so well.

I didn't think you. All right, so I do a mill. It's just, to me, I don't want to say that it's rudimentary, but I can go back into it because it is a huge part of my story. And as a relationship to God, my relationship to that time period in separation from God, like I grew up in the church. I went to a Southern Baptist church in Las Vegas. And I was grateful for that because I had a lot of youth pastors who were big influences in my life. And I didn't realize how much of a blessing that was until much later. And so my entire life was spent pretty introverted just and only interested in the performing arts in a weird way. Like, love being on stage. Really struggle with one-on-one conversations with people. I'm not pretty extroverted. Sorry to start bad news for us early in this to tell you, like this is so uncomfortable for me, especially with how much gray you're wearing. let's just take a second during this podcast is a thirty second silence for the gray and or up that brian has his overall studio he needs a total rebuild new outfits uh... new new backdrop we're going to watch a fundraiser campaign for that i know it's a co-funny already i already donated it uh... so i uh... i uh...

i moved out so i i studied i studied my whole life with the intention of getting into the acting space uh... because that's all i ever wanted that's all i've ever wanted and so when i moved out to l_a_ from vegas i was eighteen and i'd had some success within the first year of just working there like i uh... looked really young i still kind of look really young and so i did a lot of disney stuff i did uh... i had some pretty sweet gigs lined up for for the foreseeable future stuff with like c_b_s_ i had stuff with them uh... like uh... i had stuff with madmen uh... eagle heart there was uh... just a couple of t_v_ shows that were just like on the docket some some nice auditions some nice callbacks come up and this was a year into me moving out to l_a_ and um... my uh... my what happened was is uh... i worked at a comedy club because it was the perfect night job for um... having my days free to just audition and i was in common like i would like just to be near comedy is beautiful never wanted to pursue stand up as a thing uh... and they had a wreck relational softball league that i joined and i was playing short stop there one day couple games in and a freak accident happened with the softball where it took a weird side swiping hop and hit me in my throat which honestly really much of an impact

though it was the lesser of the two injuries the other one was me falling back and hitting my head on the ground uh... and doing that in doing that there was uh... some some the diagnosis was a minor vocal contusion with a major concussion and then i had a i'd later had some brain scans and visited neurologists who said that it was i'd suffered a t_v_ i was traumatic brain injury and so the week that i had all of this lined up for me it was uh... lost the control my speech i lost like the the functionality of my overall motor skills mostly just on the left side of my body and so when i when it had to go to all these auditions and some of these gigs and some of these callbacks um... i wasn't able to go do them so the agency that i was working with at that time dropped me and they were like you know come back when you get better and there was a very there was a substantial amount of time that went by where on and i wasn't by their terms better so i felt pretty backed into a corner in terms of i love performing i love i love the fact that i moved out here this is my passions but i love more than anything and i'm not able to do it uh... and then working at this ticket booth at this comedy club i had a couple of comments who were like hey this thing that happened to you uh... is probably something that you could explore on stage comments like to take something that happened to them and try to alcomize it make it make it something that you know they can have some ownership of it's all kind of

kind of bandied misfits that's what comedy is is just people who were like outcasts and feel like they want to talk about um... things that happen in their life so they can uh... you know feel like once again like you were talking about like they have control over it you know and to me that's exactly what stand up was at that time was me finally just going on stage for the first time i went on stage it wasn't good like i didn't do any jokes that were like all man that's that's that's really great but i did feel connected for the first time in months where i felt like i had like like i just felt like i was there was compassion i did i felt like there was understanding from people especially because when you stutter you know like all you're trying to do is can all you're trying to do is control it and actually it it becomes chinese finger trap a little bit the more you try to control it the more difficult it becomes to try to communicate and you're you're just doing everything that you can to protect yourself you're trying to put a protective barrier between you and any social interaction because you're afraid somebody's going to dismiss you or rush you or be uncomfortable or or not understanding so it it really kind of it really kind of fragmented any idea that i had of what it meant to be vulnerable and and it and it uh... it challenged me in a way not just like on a communication level but just on a human level and

it also humbled me in a way that you know I could have been dismissive of people and interactions. I could have been somebody who's on the other side of an interaction with someone who was stuttering where maybe I didn't give them the time of day or maybe I didn't give them as much grace or as time as maybe they needed. So it has been a lesson in control and that was 16, 15 years ago when that happened. So since then it kind of changed my life, I ended up on television, I did America's Got Talent not too long ago and went really far on that and I grinded my whole soul to just make a lot of things make sense for why that happened in my life and comedy interestingly is a very godless place. There's not a lot of God around and it's not cool to have that relationship and so interestingly not just because of the anger that I was experiencing with God directly because of what happened to me, but also just the influence of other people just being like, oh, what do you mean like you're into that or you're, you know, it's just, it's very easy to try to, it's very easy for other comics to try to poke holes in just what religion is or what organized religion is and to me like, it was hard, it was hard because my entire life, God meant like having a relationship with God and also God meant like that he wouldn't betray and that you wouldn't feel dismayed and you know, reading everything that scripture says, it's like, I mean, God never says that, you know, God never says that you're not going to experience adversity and so I don't know, it's been, it's been weird and, and so that's kind of the origin story. Well, you've got to have some masterclass insights to how you overcome adversity or how you overcome control. You just, I like how you said that the more you're thinking about it, the more you're in jeopardy of stuttering, I hadn't just true confessions, I hadn't heard of you until I was asked, hey Drew, can't come for all of man camp, but he's kind of a big deal, he's up in Columbus and he's contacted us as if he'd come down for what he can do and I broke the rule like you're the first person who will ever come to man camp and done a whole thing other than other bear grills last year.

And then I started, I started, you know, I heard about your story, I started watching your, some of your videos and dude, I don't, I don't hear any, any stutter. I heard no stutter in any videos I did, only because we were talking about stuttering. Could I maybe twice and what you just said, kind of maybe go, oh, maybe that is, but dude, that's, that's gone. That is, that is not part of you at all. What was the, what was the, like, was there a breakthrough where you said, oh, I just have to think this way, I have to do this, I have to make my piece with it. I have to pray this, I have to, I mean, you obviously, dude, I'm telling you, it's no issue. You're, you're done. It is healed. You know, I'm a communicator for my life as well and I pick up on stuff really easily and like nothing. So what'd you do? Well, it's a, I would say it's a combination of things and it's not like it was a, like, I would like to be able to point to this thing, but I think it is the accumulation of tools and relinquishing control in, in, in a, in a simulated way and exposing yourself basically to what is your, your, your biggest fear factor, you know, like what's the thing that makes you, kind of, what makes the, what's the thing that makes your skin crawl and how can you walk towards that rather than try to, you know, have gone away from it and you know, my speech used to be much worse. And it's interesting because I used to think like I had to fill the space talking and if that meant talking, that meant stuttering. I'm stuttering sometimes in my head, that's what these pauses are sometimes, but that's just giving my permission to like, it's like, it's like a little car going down a, going down a dead end and you're like, a real quick, I have, I have to back up and then I'm going to go this way. So it's a lot of, it's a lot of redirecting, there's a lot of tools. You know, Steve Hart, there's tons of people who used to stutter and then, and then had

some type of, I imagine, individual breakthroughs themselves. people who really you would have you know Paul Rudd you know there's a lot of people you have no idea who you have no idea who did and they found their own kind of unique way and my story is different because like mine came from a head trauma most people have it developmentally as kids you know so I didn't even I didn't have to suffer through the what it meant to go through developmental years trying to figure out who I was while also doing this I dealt with this as an adult so you know I had through some skills but at the same time there is also just a very insecure kid who at the core of this is still just trying to manage what some of these feelings are now if I can be totally candid my speech therapist is incredible she's probably the best I mean she has a she has a God-given gift she is a she can just hear when something is not like phonetically or resonant it's not resonant in how you're you're the the equipment of what we are supposed to use to communicate she can tell when there's something malfunctioning or something that's not being used properly so she's the best and the work that I've done with her not just in here's here's how is here's how it is to be technically proficient but what is the feelings behind why you're not able to say this thing what is the feeling behind why like let's like let's not even talk about what is the assignment is today let's talk about what emotion are you coming in here with you know I mean you know Steve Harvey talked about how I mean Steve Harvey is amazing amazing person yeah he's an amazing he's an amazing personality and he has so much charisma you'd have no idea that he was just adults with stuttering as a as a right as a kid him talking about you know he had an interview a couple years ago where he was just talking a couple years ago this you want to tell me Steve Harvey's son no talking about Steve Harvey had an interview a couple years ago I'm sorry I'm thinking a different Steve Harvey you're you're talking about the black comedian yes okay I'm talking about the old the old the old time white guy who said good day that's the rest of the story now you're too young you have no idea who he is we call yourself an American you don't know I'm sorry Harvey

is I'm sorry I'm sorry I'll explain AI and memes to you later but right now yeah I A-I-E-I-O the vows that's only two of them Steve Harvey host a family for you he he had an interview where he used to talk about how it it was a struggle for him and some of the exercises that he had to kind of go through in his relationship with control for me I going up in front of a crowd of people every single night over and over and over and over and over we'll teach you things like that will teach you like you're you're you're in the most pressurized situation where it's it's all about how you feel about something and when you start to realize that it's not the thing itself but it's how you feel about the thing and that actually is a subverted like it's a subvertant type of way of dealing with what you're dealing with you know it's like so often we are taking the thing that's happening to us at face value and we're experiencing that in on a first degree level and that must mean this thing I'm I'm incredibly reactive to to to things that happen in a physical plane and I also realized that that's not actually the plane that I feel spirituality or God works in and and and what it means to you know like like the hardship these quiet seasons sometimes that you that you experience like so really figuring out that the way that you feel about the way that you feel about something is something that you have some control over and relinquishing some type of surrender actually is what loosens that that that effect of how you're experiencing it on a physical plane so through what you experience on a physical level and and how you're reacting based on what it is that you feel or what it is that you're willing to surrender and how how that has a relationship to what's happening on the physical plane I know this is super heady for 20 minutes into a podcast but as it relates to stuttering that has been my that has been my experience here's a very here's a very here's a very physical pronounced and apparent thing that has some version of of measured result based on how I feel about it or based on how I do or don't associate with the level of control that I'm trying to, you know. That is a big one. I did I did I did psychedelics at some point

I know that that could be controversial to maybe say but I did psychedelics at some point and there's because I also read an interview where some guy on so, you know, he he did he had stuttering issues and He did psychedelics and that will teach you a lot about you know control and what it means to you know be in charge of your own ego and your own identity, so As it relates to stuttering, it's you know like it's kind of a lot. Here's like a physical here's a physical tangible thing that tries to you know that that that's always It's just it's it's it's always present, but when that becomes the control Then everything else becomes the variable and how you feel about things and in that way. It's it's simple it's not easy, but it is simple because it's formulaic and and and and so you know my relationship to God also has been something that has grown immensely in a lot of the the the the moments of heartbreak and the moments of rejection the moments of feeling Misunderstood, which a lot of times I still do I actually thought forgot as you're giving a really great answer and Absolutely, they're drill. I actually forgot we were talking about Stuttering because what I was hearing was communicating You're kind of giving a clinic on being a communicator I the people who inspire me most for the art of preaching. I don't mean the content of preaching. I Mean the art of how you carry yourself on stage for preaching are stand-up comics. I Remember the first one I saw I I loved up It's I was a youth pastor Fastening you suck talk about youth pastors. That's one of the under Under Talted benefits of the local church is just about all of them have a student ministry and man Have having a kid with an adult to someone who's five 10 15 years older than him who's a solid guiding force That's a normal thing. I mean we we hear just all about the stuff of you know the abuse that happens. Yes unfortunate does happen But most of time it's an unbelievable thing that's built into someone like you or into me So I came out of student ministry. I went into student ministry head down

Just work and work and work and work and work and then I transitioned its mother stuff went the seminary head down work and work and work and work and work I came and started church head down work and work like I have no time for fun or laughter or anything anywhere and somebody turned me on to Gave me a DVD of Dane Cook and I watched that guy and I I thought that is the most Mesmerizing presentation I've ever seen darn funny - and when I when I Go to see stand-up, which isn't that often but if I see it on YouTube like with you or I let's do it I am amazed by the you know the Just the way to read a crowd The way to lose yourself I think that's what's fascinating for you about stand-up comma is you guys have a way to lose yourself And maybe that's why the stuttering goes away because you can't think about that and lose yourself You've lost yourself in the crowd. You've lost yourself in the craft and You you may stutter of once a while, but you know what I hear all the time and I actually pay money to not do this is to say I asked some of my question. Hey, could you go over and you know get me some toe-lint ah I guess I guess the ah one time when it's happening I took a $20 bill and I put on the like like there and I said there's two guys up there I said the 20 bucks for either one of you you just have to get through this and neither one of you say um And they'll ask it about 45 seconds Sessuous, so so I'm I'm very cognizant of the vocal inferences, which is why I'm going I got I don't hear with you So that's just my long Rambling introductory to ask you what I love asking people in your craft is like What do you see some of the biggest problems people make? When they're given a speech when they're given a presentation. They're given a sermon like what do you what do you see us or? Joe Schmo is doing a business meeting do and you go oh no stop don't do that or oh please do that any any tips for us Yeah, well I want to speak to what you were just saying about Dane Dane also is someone who is a Man of God he's found his relationship With God and I see Dane on the scene all the time the absolute apex of our industry.

He's experienced the absolute height of what it means to be literally the biggest in the world. And he's also had hardships and things that happened in his family, things that happened in his past being taken advantage of, feeling like, you know, the business, there's a lot of things. So I think it's beautiful that he also has a relationship with God. I didn't know that. Is he still don't stand up right now? Absolutely. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. I've always felt like self-awareness and what it means to be human and be human early to kind of truth tell. You know, Jamie Winship does this well. I like Jamie Winship. I love Jamie Winship because he's someone who, when you watch him speak, you're watching someone do what God has asked them to do. It's God just working through someone. And you can see that when you watch a number of pastors or comedians or communicators of any type, it's because there's something so human about him or there's something so human about anyone you connect with early. And that can be in a conversation that can be in a speech. It almost shouldn't change. In fact, I feel like you have to dig a little bit deeper when you're in front of the crowd where you push past that protective layer, that ego a little bit. I have this, I have this, I've done this for a very long time. And I still have this to this day where I recognize early on it's like, that's not how I wanted to start or that's not how I wanted to come off because I'm projecting something out that doesn't have to be a, doesn't have to be there. And so if you just start sometimes by saying something self-deprecating, I've built a whole

career pretty much on just making jokes at my own expense. I'm not a very polarizing comedian. I'm not someone who weighs in on politics. I'm not someone who is really interested in making anybody feel bad about themselves or isolating themselves or, and in the past when I've done that, I don't feel good about myself. Like in the past, where even if I make a joke that kind of feels like it's at someone else's expense, there's a part of me that kind of dies or separates because I know that people have done that to me and maybe not to my face or maybe to my face or it's just, it doesn't feel good. So I recognize that the grace that I can give or maybe even the gift that I can try to give is let me offer myself as a target to kind of, or let me be self-aware enough to neutralize our environment that says just because I'm up here or just because I'm holding a microphone or just because I have credits or I have a repertoire of, of accomplishments or things doesn't mean that you and I are any different. I want people to experience that I am a human first and then the product of that connection can be that funny things happen. And I also think that that's, that's a construct in itself. Pastors don't have to be serious the whole time and comedians don't have to be funny the whole time. It's this sort of projection or something that you established that isn't real where you're putting yourself in a box. So I just think you have something that is, one of my favorite words is adverse because I think that's where good writing and beautiful storytelling happens and that's where God's storytelling is the most beautiful. That's where I think humans sharing is the most beautiful is when you are in an environment or there is an environment that is set up that is inherently adverse. So if, if there is someone who is the target expectation is that they're going to be serious or is that they have some level of trauma or gravitas or, or stillness and yet the, what is adverse about them is that there's something like comedic or their frequency is, is different

than that. It creates this beautiful sort of textured overall full picture of a person that I believe is, that's also what God is to, to me is being able to show me that people can embrace this full other side of themselves that maybe they were hesitant to try to show to people. But that's actually the most beautiful, beautiful part. So if that means anything, I know that some of my answers can be really, really elaborate, Give as much of an all-encompassing answer that I can to say I just think if you're just vulnerable Or if you call something exactly like it is and if that's about yourself or if that's about the environment or or what have you or if it's a mistake like call it out like just be human and that level of humanness vulnerability presentism all of these things These are these are things that you kind of acquire or you or you learn over time and the more that you try to control Or the more that you try to protect you're going to have the exact opposite effect Yeah, what I hear you saying is is Focus on connection instead of information. That's why I see a lot of people do it. I gotta get this information across Yeah, you gotta you gotta have a sense of connection first. I have a thing that I always think my mind of Passing the beer test which you inherently have to do that as a comedian. You know that that's Well, you're there while people are having a beer and you know that they're to have a good time, but I Want to in the very earliest stage of a talk passive beer test and that is when someone goes Huh? I'd like to have a beer with that guy You know that that's the reason why people vote for certain politicians that they disagree with their they disagree with their views on because they go hmm I'd like to have a beer that guy there's something about him or something about her and I think I think that's what comedians do while the great ones. Do you really really well? Yeah, I agree. I think that's an awesome I think that's an awesome litmus test for and a nice way to frame it because So much of what you're trying to do as any type of communicator is say to yourself before you Start to deliver whatever you're delivering is I gotta get this communicated But I feel like that should be secondary to what it is that you feel so this really is a battle of your head versus your heart This is almost like your ego versus relinquishing control I mean there's several different terms that you can interchange to try to frame this for people But this is kind of what we're getting closer and closer to

really talking about Yeah, that's that's a that's a good word. I think that I Think that What what I'm? Curious with you Drew is it seems like you know Old story how he's a old story was a stutter yada yada. I'm not interested in that anymore I'm interested like how did that equip you for your next story like what's the that was a challenge? Obviously having to reinvent your career. You had to reinvent How to learn how to how to how to speak I get or speak with his little vocal inferences possible So what's what's your big challenge right now like going forward in your life? What's what's the thing that's keeping you from the next level? What is your next level? How are you transferring learnings you've had in the last level or this level make sense? Talk like it does sure When I first got into stand-up all I I could have sold everything to just every night feel the way that I was feeling which was validated by My efforts what it was that I was willing to do and in a weird way almost building equity in Something that was Built by me. So therefore my own stock of an Interpretation of my stock was going up which translates again to Ego it was I was going on stage saying I wrote this thing and it's being received this way and I am just going to continue to Do that over and over and over and over so I can feel like I am enough and I can feel like I can make sense of what happens to me. I can feel like I can Have respect I can be appreciated I can be understood I can have Class I can have I can had can be in a

bracket based on how hard I how hard I how hard I work I my my entire value and worth system is based on how well I do and I Started to kind of run that into the ground where it was like all I did was focus on Quantitative goals for myself So I would do a number of sets in a year and I would make a checklist to just be And one year, I remember I did like 101 different sets. And I was like, okay, I did 101 different stages. I just wanted to perform in 101 different places. And that was very early in my career. And then after that, I was like, that's good. But the next, I need more. So then the next year, I was like, I'm gonna do 500 sets. I'm gonna do just 500. And that meant, you know, basically on average, about two a night, you know, every night. Multiple shows a night, anywhere. Going up in front of, at laundromats, going up at like, Korean barbecue grills. I went up at a basement of a hospital. I did a book club in someone's living room with no microphone. I've done shows with, I've done shows for one person. I've done shows where it was for one person. And that person went to the bathroom and I'm performing for no one now, but I'm still on stage. I've done, I've done anything and everything. Because to me, there's an asset in that type of mindset,

which is, I'm getting the victory of knowing that I'm still checking off a goal for myself by having done it, but at the same time at what cost. And then I kind of went deep into like alcohol when you're around clubs and you're around venues and stuff, like they have alcohol that's just readily available. So I went deep into alcohol, I went deep into sin. I was just not living the life of someone that was, like I was swearing a lot, like I swear. It's weird, like it's weird 'cause I would swear. I have like a clean, I am a clean comedian for the most part and I have like a clean sort of, I'm a clean person. I'm a wholesome person. I want good things for people. And at the same time, sometimes I would swear on stage, but then I would get off stage and then I wouldn't swear. And I was like, that's weird. So I just went through a whole kind of evaluating process where I had to really say like, what is it that I, who is it that I want to be? 'Cause all I'm doing is just creating numbers for myself. Like I did the same thing with my online presence. Like I was like, I'm gonna do however many videos every week until I get to. And then I got to like a million subscribers on YouTube. And I was like, that's not enough. So then I got to two million subscribers on YouTube. And I was like, that's not enough. And I was like, we need three million on Facebook.

And then that's not enough. All these quantitative goals. And it just like, well, it's because I'm diagnosing the symptoms here. I'm not looking at what the issue is. And the issue is is that worth is internal. Your internal locus of control. What it is that, how it is that you feel about you is going to be fruitful if that's healthy. But if it's not, then it's nothing is ever going to feel like it's enough. And that is the proverbial issue that a lot of us run into, which is how are you medicating or avoiding this idea that you can't be by yourself. And be by yourself comes from being by yourself is where you can really realize that you're not, right? That seems like that's a, that's, I don't know, put that on a coffee mug and sell it on Pinterest. I would never, I would never advocate that I come up with a quote and that it should be sold. But man, that sounded better. That sounded better as a, it sounded as better than I thought it would. But it really is. You can't find out that you're not alone until you spend some, it's like you have to be alone in order to figure out that you're not. And there is where I have experienced God. I'm going through a year of my dad passing away from brain cancer, going through a divorce,

going through a breakup, going through my bed, my childhood best friend is, is in a wheelchair, you know, like, like, it's just been a, it's just been a year of just feeling like, I don't know how to explain why there's so many difficult things that are happening all at once, but at the same time also knowing that these things are, like that God is still here and that God is, like these things are still, these are how they're supposed to happen. That's what's crazy. And my dad had brain cancer and he died in a, I mean, he died in a brutal fashion. When you just watch somebody kind of just deteriorate from the inside and have something attack their brain and then have that translate to their body and have them become just uncharacteristically, not themselves. And yet he was someone who, despite his programming, from him. I'm a huge intellectualizer of everything. He also just said over and over and over again even in the thick of his disease was, you know, it's all about faith, family and friends and he said it that way and he said it in that order. And here I am just, you know, like remarking on the fact that here's a man who is not a big feeler. He's not a person who's like, I'm connected to, I just never got the impression that he was like connected to God and yet that's what it was that he was advocating for right right right up all the way to the end. So I just know that there's been some coincidences and things where I was like, all right, that just absolutely has to feel like God and the more that I or that actually has to have been God and the more that I dive into the word, the more that I am in this solitude where I am just kind of sweating out ego, sweating out discomfort, sweating out why it is I can't sit still and be alone with myself for a little bit is where God tries to kind of, you know, break you all the way down in order to kind of build you

all the way, you know, build, build you back up with a sound foundation where your worth doesn't, your worth does not have any of those holes anymore where it's just like no matter how much you feel it, it's just never going to be enough. So that's my once again, long winded answer. So you're, you're, you're, you're feeling good then about where your career is going, you're just more fighting the, the internal battle of metrics and worth. That's what I'm hearing. Is that right? I think so. I still struggle with my career because I mean, I still struggle with my career because it's like I buy all metrics and I'm successful but sometimes I also feel directionless and that's uncomfortable. I've almost always had, I've almost always had a north star with what it was that, where it was that I wanted to go and that for me was, you know, early like we talked about earlier, it was acting and then that changed and then it became stand up and now all of a sudden I got to the end, like to the end of where that looks like, it's like, okay, that's going to come to us, that's going to, like, what is it that you want to do? And I have, at this moment in time, Brian, I almost have no idea. It's like I create content all the time and we make videos. I have a whole production team, we have meetings, we work on videos, we do it multiple times a week and millions of people see it. That's fantastic. What am I doing? Like, I have to figure out, I actually don't have to figure anything out. I think all I have to do is just wait and try to surrender to where it is that I need to be going and try to figure out, try to figure out the energy and the presence of God. So I think that's my answer to kind of giving an addendum to what, so I'm sorry if it was unclear on my initial answer. Well, no, I am sharpening you right now is what I'm trying to do. You said you're directionless. Why do you say directionless? I'm not hearing any directionless. What's, what's directionless? I hear you're antsy. You're antsy. I hear you're saying you, I think you're saying you think there's something more directionless. I don't see it fitting you, brother. And it might be that might have been an unfair assessment, a self-assessment, that might have been an unfair self-assessment. I think maybe what I mean to say is I'm in this period of waiting and somehow knowing that there is something more that is meant for me. And I just have to continue to follow the breadcrumbs to see what that is. And I think the reason that this is, why this is significant in me, in me sharing this. And the reason that it's significant to the conversation in terms of relevancy is because I've almost always been the one to dictate or determine where it is that I want to go or what goals I want to make and what's going to happen. That's ego. That's control. That's me. That's always been my model.

And now that whole system is being challenged. And it's, I believe correctly, being challenged because it has resulted in me feeling like, oh, I'm kind of burnt out. I'm kind of, I'm burnt out from me feeling like I have to carry the weight of all of my decision making. How old are you? I'm 35. because there's really no slowing down. You probably can phone it in and corporate America easier than you can. You know, you can't just fuddle your way through a day. You're the guy, your nuts are on the block. You've got to create the content. You've got to hope people are responding to it. You know, what I hear in you, correct me if I'm wrong here, is like, again, I'm putting myself in the, I'm putting myself in my occupation in your shoes. I think there are some, there are some parallels we talked about before. What's, what gets really, really old is like you're only as good as your last performance and the numbers of your last quote unquote performance are only encouraging if you think it's going to stay up and keep going up and to the right. It is just a endless hamster and this doesn't get talked about at all in churches because in churches, everyone just talks the right talk, which is right talking, true talk, like it's not about numbers. Well, not really because there's a whole book of the Bible called numbers, the book of Acts quotes numbers of people attending all the time. Jesus says go out into all the world converting people, which means more numbers. But the heart behind that is like, Hey, let's, let's keep our self focused that numbers aren't the goal. God's the goal. Amen. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But even when you know that, even when you know that God's more interested in your own spiritual formation, then he is in your automation to being your robot or productivity, even when you understand that it is, it is still an oppressive thing of I have to perform and people have to show up. That conversation rarely takes place, at least in church circles because people are afraid of that conversation. They don't want to admit that's conversation is going on in their mind. And they don't want to admit that they sound unspiritual, at least in your, in your, in your occupation, I would think that you could have that conversation not be accused of being unspiritual. And that resonates drew. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's it you're absolutely right about how, how, what it is that I do. How does that translate to the result and how and, and you know, they talk about how comparison is the thief of joy and that's on all levels, you to someone else, you to your own self. I mean, that's

right. I mean, that's just over and over and over. And when you are the deliverer of your own sermon, even though it's the word or it or like with stand up, like, these are my words. You are everything. You are the writer. You are the director. You are the actor. You are the editor. You are in full control of what it is that you deliver. And also, you are the product. So this is not like shark tank, shark tank, where I come on, I go in there and I'm like, I worked on this thing and I modified it and here it is. And if they're like, yeah, we don't think it's great. It's like, all right, well, I worked hard on it, but at least that's the product, the product of what it is that you do when you go on stages, you. So you are, you are under full scrutiny. You're under, you're, you're under full evaluation of how it is. And that's very hard to not take, take personally in that, in that on some level. So I would be curious, my question to you, Brian, because- Oh, I love when people ask me questions. Don't ever ask me questions. I love it. Okay. Okay. Good. Because I would spend, I would spend more time asking questions than I would talking, but again, this is your podcast. So my question to you is- Jesus. What? Yeah. All right. Great. That's always the answer. Yeah. Yeah. Then I don't need to, I don't even need to ask because I had three other questions, but I feel like the same answer works for all of them. My question to you would be what verse, what verse is one that, and I understand that there are seasons probably for verses that you most resonate with, but for you, and maybe it's just for you in this time, what is a verse that you call upon to get you through these moments of adversity or get you through these moments of feeling like this is the one that speaks most closely to my identity or to Brian's struggle that presents itself over and over again. That's a good word. Good question. This singular verse that I go to more and more the most is Colossians one 29. Onto this we labor and strive. That's a, that's my rough interpretation of it. Because of the striving, like we strike, the Apostle Paul was striving. So I'm, I'm gonna be strived. I have to expect a level of like, there's gotta be a hit in the same nail. There has to be a push.

There, there, there has, that's part of the Christian life of striving. He says, it's strong. I just prayed that I'm, he's striving, right? And he's got the scars on his back and all that stuff that's on him. And of course the purpose is to bless people and bring people to Christ. So that, that's the verse that I go to the most different angles of it. What I, but generally what God does with me is God works with me in stories. And stories in certain seasons build me up. So the one, and I'm gonna probably talk about this at man camp, the one today that's working on me, the story is Jesus' interaction with Peter on his last day. You know, Peter's at the Last Supper and Jesus says, you know, you're all gonna abandon me. And Peter says, no way, not me, uh-uh. No, I would never, I would never, ever, ever abandon you. And Jesus tells him, well, for the cock crows three times, you're gonna deny me. Nope, nope, not me, uh-uh, not get it. Nope, nope, nope, nope. And then of course hours later he does, denies Christ three times. The person says, wait, you're one of the people with him. He says, I did not, I was not, I never knew the guy. And actually says he cursed as well.

And then the cock crows three times. What I find interesting about that is I'm marinating on this is the season of life I'm in right now. And I think this is probably the core issue with men. I think if I, maybe this is the hidden code to understand the thing that men deal with. You're the first person I ever talked about this too. So I'm saying this go like, hmm, what do you think about this? Good question. Now I'm gonna be a little vulnerable with you. And then I like to get your feedback on it. I think as men we ping pong back and forth just like Peter did between pride and fear. It's how we kind of manage situations. Like we gotta figure out how to make sense and get through life. So one minute we're like, yeah, I know what I'm doing here. I know what I'm doing here or like we're offended. We're offended that someone didn't ask us because wait a minute, wait a minute 'cause I know what I'm doing. We're constantly trying to give ourselves credentials and like feel like I got this. And then we drop right into fear of, oh gosh, I don't know if I can pay the bill. I don't know if they lie. What am I doing? Oh my gosh, I feel a bump. Oh my God, I got a, I got a, I got a, you know, we going, it feels like we ping pong back and forth

between those things and the only commonality between that ping pong was the presence of Jesus. That was the commonality. And if Peter isn't walking in the presence of Jesus abiding there and if he's only focusing on his accomplishments and his abilities, pride, or he's only focusing on what could go wrong and how can, that's fear, they lose the plot. So that for me, I'm not, I haven't memorized those scriptures right now, but I am, that story is marinating my mind in the season I'm in. What do you think about that? - I love that and I love that you identify with, I love that in your identity you recognize that the way God speaks to you is a lot of times through you with stories and how you resonate with that. I think that's a beautiful thing because I'm fascinated and we could talk hours about the psychology of, or even just the frequency that people receive or their relationship for how they receive. I was talking about, I talk about this with my opener, Felicia Gillespie. She goes to Crossroads, she's my spiritual, yeah, she's my spiritual sponsor a lot of times. Like we and I, she and I will talk and she has her own relationship with God and how, and she's had her own seasons of like, I'm down and then I have to come back and this is how I experience it. And that verse, what you just shared with me

about how men vacillate between the pride and fear and sometimes it's, it's sometimes there's fear underneath the pride. So sometimes it's both at the same time. Weathering the vicissitudes, which is an insane word that I can't believe I can say however many years later, weathering the vicissitudes of that I believe is the presence of Jesus, exactly like you said. It is the idea that it's not you shouldering In fact, middling it, keeping it, keeping, keeping the trust and that, that spiritual, that is what spiritual confidence is, is somewhere in between these two. Because if you go too far where you're like, well, I don't know how I'm going to figure this out, or I don't know how I'm going to do this, or I'm going to. Now the sudden you're, you're, you are getting absorbed and you're being, you're being taken with thought. You're in the throes of your own thought, you know, you know, Jamie Winship shared something with me, which is like every single time that, every single time that David in the Bible thought to himself and the Bible says David thought to himself every single time he thought to himself that translated to loss. Every single time David consulted God, David inquired to God, it translated to victory. And so that also tells you so much about, about what it actually means to have spiritual confidence. Because even if you ride too close to pride, that sometimes is hollow, that sometimes is a front for, for, well, this is what I think and this is the label and this is, you know, that's why all the great prophets and people who are, you know, study, you know, philosophers and Stoics and they're all talking about like, I don't, I don't, I don't claim to know the Bible talks about not even claiming to know and not having the vanity of me, you can ask for wisdom, but the wise person doesn't really even elaborate in that, in that fashion. So I always think that what's beautiful about scripture is the interconnected network of how this verse also translates to this verse or this story translates to this, this contemporary theme or this verse contains, you know, actually translates to it.

So like you talking about that story and talking about how for men, we've, we, so even when we get together, like even when men get together, that's what's weird is like, we don't lead with vulnerability first, right, right, right, you, you, you have to kind of dignify, you almost have to like justify, right, that, that, that, that you belong in company here. And yeah, that's crazy because when you're around a person, but maybe more specifically a man who is so secure in, in himself, the almost, it's like the product or the result of that type of spiritual confidence is that he listens or is that he's content with whatever does and doesn't happen, which means, again, you're not taking, you're not being taken in the throes of, oh, this is fear and this is pride and, and fear is a huge motivator for me. I've built so much of my career on what happens if, what happens if I don't, what happens if, and so, and even like you're talking about with Colossians one 29, I even think there's fear in there, you know, there's fear underneath that as that, as that thought of like this can quell fear if you, if you, if you read that, but you know, like that's why I was just so curious to ask you what's that verse because I mean so many of these themes that we have about worth, about if it's going to work out, about, about being afraid, you know, I love the fact that the Bible talks about don't be afraid. However many times, whatever they say, it's 365 times once for every day, yes, once for every day, you know, so that I think is also something that's, that's beautiful. So that's why I wanted to ask you that question. Well, it's also another layer to male loneliness, which we all know is a problem, is that fear and pride both work against that. I mean, if you're prideful, no one wants to be around you. If you're, you're just, you're just not fun to be around people, people sniff that out and you're not, if you're prideful, you're not going to be asking people questions to find out about them because you want them to find out about you. You know, when you're a friend, you have to be interesting and interested. And pride keeps coming. And fear, you know, if you're ruled by fear, you're not going to be vulnerable. People only take jokes for so long.

They want to know your heart, but fear will never allow you to reveal something about yourself. So I think it's a deep, well, Drew, this has been utterly fantastic. Anything else you want to talk about? Um, yeah, I wanted to ask you another question. Oh, all right. I mean, you said you like them. Oh my gosh. I'm really rare. I love it. Go ahead. I don't want to take too much time, but you know, I would be curious to know what is your process for, because, I mean, you're doing, I know that you're kind of working more into the rotation of what happens at being able to deliver sermons at your church. When you're on a more regular rotation where it's like weekend, like where you're back-to-back weeks. Cause I can, I can, I mean, I can tell you about my process, but like, I'm just curious how that translates to, I mean, like, I know sometimes you kind of set a curriculum and maybe you let the, maybe you let the congregation know this is what the next couple of weeks is going to look like this is, but how do you, like, how does that speak to you? And what, in, in what, what is, like, in what ways do you hear from God? In what ways do you have that relationship where that informs what that's going to look like? And then what's your process for, for keeping that consistent and to the, to your own level of being like, all right, this is good enough for me. And do you experience, do you experience while you're doing it? Like, you know what? I'm just going to trust that actually God's going to be able to speak through me here. Like I know that that's so many questions, but it all kind of is encompassed in the, in the, in the process and I'm curious about that. One of the four, you talked about verses before one of the, the other one that's really big

on me. I'm sorry. It's so big, but I really do have a bad memory. I forget the address right now. It's first Timothy, something, something, something, but here's the actual memory of the verse. The verse is this. In all things, be so reminded, do the, uh, indoor suffering, do the work of a van, the evangelist and fulfill your ministry. Why oh you are fulfill your ministry. So reminded, indoor suffering of outdoor hardship. This is for all of us. Do the work of evangelist, whether you have the gift of evangelist or not, and fulfill your ministry. I think the most fascinating one there is fulfill your ministry. Not somebody else's your, your, your. So we all have to figure out what God wants us to do, how He's gifted us and all that stuff. So to answer your question, I want to apply that is, I, I'm different than a lot at, we're all different than each other. I don't go the way that first fulfill your ministry is I'm not a teacher first. I am a leader first and specifically I am a shepherd. So while my communication skills are good enough to speak at conferences, I get very, very, very, very few conferences to speak very, I wish I got more like, you know, it's great. It's fun to do and get a water cache immediately, but I just, I just don't. And I think the reason why I don't is my speaking style is best for people who are, who I'm leading. Because people who I'm shepherding, because now to your question, when I go into a talk, when I'm at my best, it starts with, if I am the shepherd, I've gone to grass where God has taken me that He wants to, to take these sheep to. That's how a shepherd is good.

Takes the sheep where there's green grass and He knows it's there because He's been there. So what goes on in my life is what's God been doing in my life that needs to come out here? How, how is He been teaching me and He's teaching me, He's teaching me maybe because He wants me to bless other people with that same information. So that's, that's what, it doesn't matter what's on the teaching docket, what's supposed to, what I'm supposed to talk about, what my assignment is, I'll check that off. But the power in any talk that's worth anything is always rooted in what has God been doing in me because I assume that He wants to do that in other people as well. Wow. I do love the individuality of it. And I do think that that's what's beautiful about even God telling you in the Bible, you know, every hair on your head, you know, like this is an individual, this is an individual thing. We are individuals and yet you take an individuality too far and assert yourself in individuality. That's when you start to get pride. So it's so interesting to be like here, here we are as all as individuals and yet here we are that we're supposed to be connected. And I, you know, above all things, it's love God and then love your neighbor and then in that order. And, and I sometimes it's weird. I will, I'll, I'll fascinate between failing in one of those, in one of those categories. But I'll, sometimes I'll be, it's some, and all of a sudden I'll, I'll care so much about people or maybe even individuals, maybe even a relationship, maybe even a relationship to things or, or business relationships that all of a sudden those start to become idols. And then all of a sudden that starts to become the focus and it's like, well, that's not the order. And that's not the order in which those two things are of the, the above all things in the, it's, it's, it's, it's love God first. And then it's, and then it's love your neighbor.

And then sometimes it'll be like it's totally about God. and I almost become like, like a, I become closed off and I almost become like a raisin where I'm hardened to others. And so it's just, I always think it's fascinating that just like you said, like the individuality of your own, the trust that you can have in your individuality and being so at peace with whatever that looks like. Like you mentioned, you have wants for yourself and at the same time knowing that how unique your own individuality is and how that applies to what it is you deliver, what it is you're able to give is really important to have that level of awareness, I think. - Yeah, yeah, thank you. Drew, this has been fantastic. I can't wait to see you face to face. That man camp coming up, give you big old hug. Is there anything, point people to where they might be able to go to find out about yourself and find out about you? - Yeah, sure, I'll be in Cincinnati actually. So I'm gonna come see, I'm doing shows, but then I'm gonna come see you live in action. So I will be in Cincinnati, I believe it's October, first through the fourth, October, first through the third is I'm at the, I'm at the funny bone there in Liberty Township, and then the week after that, I'll be in Columbus, Ohio, but you can find all this stuff on drewlynch.com, and if you don't know who I am or wanna check out some content online or whatever, you just type in my name, drewlynch,

and stuff will pop up, so. - Hey, you know, it's called the aggressive life, not because we just wanna give you interesting ideas, that would be the idea life. It's called the aggressive life because we wanna apply things. Drew gave us a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff here. Like man, stop using excuse, the thing that's been tough for you, like you can move through it, maybe not solve it, but you can accommodate it and have the life you want, maybe that's it. Maybe it's, I need to re-look at how do I connect with people and how I interact with people, maybe it's that, maybe it's, maybe it's, he's given us a clinic on how to ask questions. It's amazing when people come on the podcast, I say I wanna have a conversation, feel free to ask questions, and very rarely do they, and this guy, this is the one time I didn't even have that discussion when Drew, and yet he naturally went there and asked three solid questions at the end. Maybe he started asking questions at people, showing them you're actually interested, don't just want them to hear you on the stage, but you're interested, I don't know what it is, find something here, put it in practice, live your life, the aggressive life, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music) Thanks for joining us on this journey toward aggressive

living, find more resources, articles, past episodes, and more at brontome.com. My new book, A 60 Day Devotional Called, The Five Marks for Man, 60 Days to a Powerful Life, along with all the other books in the Five Marks library, are open right now on Amazon. Be sure to leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast, then send an email to dirt, that's [email protected], to get a free aggressive life sticker, find more on Instagram @brontome. The aggressive life is a production of Crossroads Church Cincinnati, Ohio. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)