Holy Disruption With Heather Schott | The Answer to "Is America Racist?" | With ‪@revwutruth‬

Is America a racist nation? Well, I'll start here. They made 85 to 90 million dollars off of the death of George Floyd. Did George Floyd's family receive any of that money? You're a coon, go back to master's house, da da da, like the crazy comments that you get the moment you step into the space. The attacks that I get from my own race is so intense when I step out and speak. We need mothers like you that are willing to say, you know what, I'm a white lady, I'm going to do a podcast about racism. Racism is not a skin tone or a color, it's sin. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Holy Disruption. I'm your host, Heather Schott, and today we are talking about an important subject, racism. Racism has been around since the beginning of time because hate and lack of love and understanding has also been around since the beginning of time. Racism is evil and it's a sin, I want to make that clear. Today we are seeing racial injustice in many forms and I believe this convo is important to disrupt falsehoods, confront lies and evil agendas that tear down instead of build up, and educate people on how race can be used as a weapon to divide the body of Christ. So we're going to be talking about today, is racism still alive? If so, with who? And is our nation racist at its roots? Where is racism coming from and why? And so I have my friend and guest today, he's been standing up as a bold voice, exposing nonsense in the church and outside the church. His name is John Amachukwu. I got it, I told him actually it was a service. He came to preach at Mercy Culture and I was standing on the front row and like, John Amachukwu, John Amachukwu. And I said it like 37 times and I was like, Jesus, I'm so sorry.

I repent. I'm in worship right now. And I said, John's saying more than you are. That's funny, I thought you were speaking in tongues. Yeah, I was, I was, of course. But let me just tell everybody, he's a returning guest. A lot of you probably know him. He's an influential preacher, author, activist. He has a master's degree in Christian ministry from Liberty University. He's a contributor with TPUSA Faith. And for 12 years, John has ministered and led a 40-week prayer walk at one of the busiest abortion clinics in the Southeast. John is Amazon bestselling author of, tell me the name of your book? Erased. Erased, uncovering the lies of critical race theory and abortion. Listen, I would highly encourage you, his reels, follow him, listen to his podcast, get his books, follow what he's doing. He, he is right now disrupting education boards across the nation, but he is a carrier of not just revival, but of reformation. And I believe the spirit of the Lord that is in him for revival and reformation is needed in the body of Christ. So go follow him, his ministry and everything that he is putting out right now. He's also a youth and young adult pastor at his church, Upper Room Church of God of Christ. And then he has an amazing wife and he's been married for 15 years with three kiddos. It's such a joy to have you here today. And I also have my spiritual daughter, Pastor Jasmine Wheeler. She's a pastor at Mercy Culture Church, director of Mercy Culture Worship, blowing up. I mean, songs being played around the world. I'm so proud of you because they're not just songs you guys are writing, but you go into

the Holy of Holies to hear from the throne room. And now these anthems that you guys have sought out from the Lord are being played around the world. And it really comes from an intimate relationship that you have with the Lord, that you've trained the worship team to have with the Lord. You lead AXL, which is a creative community of, of training up creatives and how to also have this intimacy with the Lord, that God's number one and audience of one. I'm so proud of you. The leader that you are, I've known you since you were 14 years old, called you nerd. You remember that? Yeah. Don't show any photos of 14. Well, we had to dig some up, not to dig some up, but we go way back. And so I'm excited to have the both of you on today, having this important conversation because we need unity in the body of Christ. Can you imagine if the body of Christ was unified, the ground we would be taking for the kingdom? So we know racism is a plan of the enemy. Let's start off foundationally. Pastor John, what is racism? It's prejudice or a bias against a group of people or even institutions solely because of pigmentation, skin color, or differences. And do you believe that the the war against racism, obviously, we know MLK and so many different reformers, you know, fought the injustice of racism and for equality for all men no matter your skin color and many of his dreams that that were portrayed through iconic speeches. I have a picture over my shoulder. I believe we're living in the fruit of today. Yet we hear so much rhetoric in the news and around the world right now of

America being this racist nation. What is your take on this? And are we, is racism still alive? And then maybe we go to the question afterwards, is America a racist nation? Well, I'll start here. Racism is not a skin tone or a color. Come on. It's sin. Come on. The Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Racism will not be eradicated until the Lord returns. And so yes, racism is real and because it's sin, not pigmentation, it's not white and it's not black, you know, it still exists today. Now, I like to say it in that manner because through critical race theory they have labeled whites as inherently racist because of some of the poor judgments and choices of their ancestors. But if racism is sin, that means that racism extends to all people, not just one particular group of people. So good. And so through history, we can pinpoint areas of racism, slavery, Jim Crow. There's still spats of racism today within some organizations with hiring practices. These things, these things are true however, I've encountered many blacks who were racist. I've encountered many whites that were racist, but I've also encountered many blacks who aren't racist and would go to blows if you label them as racist or say something racist around them. And the same thing with whites. And so because the enemy seeks to be a devourer, you know, he walks around as a roaring lion seeking who he can devour. He's infiltrated systems of this world, government, entertainment, education, politics, athletics, and the likes. And he's going to do what he does well, and that's divide us, you know. And Satan is also known as the accuser of the brethren. Yes. And he brings about false accusations. But sometimes the accusations might be true of racism. And when it is true, we should address it as such.

But what I'm starting to see is that most of the time that's not the case. It's ideologies that have been conjured up to keep people divided for the expense of political gain. Break that down for us. So you said these ideologies now that are leading the racism conversation for political gain. All right, case in point. Let's talk about DEI, right? Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Blacks are led to believe that DEI benefits blacks. But when you look at the statistics, you find out that it doesn't. According to Black Enterprise, blacks only make up four percent of DEI hires. All right. Wow. According to McKinsey and Thompson, white women account for 76.1 percent of chief diversity officers. And across the board, DEI hires across the board is pretty much 60 to 62 percent of white liberal women. And so on face value, DEI has an image that is pro-black. But when you wipe the black off of DEI, the more you wipe, wipe, the whiter it gets. And in particular, it's to benefit white liberal women. White liberal women and men who seek to push trans zealot ideologies, Marxist atheist ideologies, and anti-Christian bigotry. Every 30 seconds, someone becomes a victim of human trafficking.

This fall, we run to change that. In Fort Worth on October 25th at Panther Island Pavilion, and in Austin on November 1st at the Travis County Exposition Center. Join us for a 5K, 10K, half marathon, full marathon, virtual run, and marathon relay. All proceeds go directly to building the Justice Residences, a long-term restoration home for women rescued out of sex trafficking. In the U.S. alone, up to 50,000 women and children are trafficked every year. To be a part of the solution, register now at justicerun.com or text RUN to 59090. Run for justice, run for freedom, run with us. It's interesting because you open up with saying racism is sin. It doesn't have to do with actually the color of our skin, so it can be directed towards any color of skin. But I feel like this gap that keeps being portrayed politically to America is this divide between black and white. And you keep hearing from certain black communities, the white man, this, you know? And that it's crazy with the progressiveness of where we've come. I think personally in families, if you look within churches, it's not real. It's not there, but then all of a sudden what's being plastered in front of us through programs, through news stories,

all of a sudden is creating these scenarios and this divide. Right, and there's someone behind that. Yes. And we ultimately know who that person is. It's Satan. It is Satan. Right, but there are strategic entities in this country, political parties, the Democrat Party. At one point it was BLM. And today it can also be the NAACP. There are different groups that seek to stoke the flames of racism because there's a business, there's an economy in division. Right, and this is why Booker T. Washington said that there's a group of people who don't want the challenges of the Negro race to die because if it does, they will lose their business. And so there is capitalism in the business of exploiting racism. People make a lot of money off of it. And it's also steeped in black liberation theology as well for some people. And there was a time frame in this country where it was steeped in white dominance in this country as well because we have to understand even the makeup of where a lot of this stuff came from, the division, the divide in our country, the divide that we see even in the Christian church today. One of the most segregated days

of the week is on Sunday mornings. But that wasn't the original intent of blacks though. You're right, there was a time frame in our country where blacks weren't allowed to go to church with whites and sing in the choir and preach behind a lectern, be it male or female, right? There was a time frame in this country where blacks were pushed out of that opportunity. And so that's why they started many of their own denominations like the Church of God and Christ and the AME, African Methodist Episcopal Church. Many of those things, reformations formed because of the division in our country. And even during slavery times, one of the most unique days of the week for the slave was on that Sunday where they could escape for a half a day or a whole day and be able to worship. And so at that given point, the preacher was no longer boy or the N word. He was Reverend Smith. The women were no longer negative slurs. They were called by a name that meant something. This is sister so-and-so, mother so-and-so, which is why in the black church era, services are quite longer. That was through the structure of coming out of slave times where we wanna stay in this space of church. for as long as we possibly can, because in this space, we are something of significance, right?

And so services were three, four, five hours. And so that's where all of that comes from. And so there's a lot of grievance in our country. There's a lot of vengeance. But what does the Bible say about grievances and vengeance? It says, vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, and what is right I will repay. And so there are people strategically today saying, no, forget God's repayment. I want to take the wrath upon my white brothers and sisters myself. And I want to litigate this with my own hands, with my own ideologies. I want to make them pay. All right. And so we want to push DEI, even though we're being manipulated in that. We want to push critical race theory, although we're being manipulated in that. We want to see more instances like the Carmelo Anthony situation and Austin Metcalf, because they did it to us. So let's now do it back to them. But that's an ungodly framework and a way of seeing things. So you are saying that this system, this agenda is using history as a weapon to create a modern and current divide and distrust between races. I couldn't say it any better. You're right. That's exactly what I'm saying. You know, what's interesting is if you look at the studies between 2000 and 2021, Asian hate crimes went through the roof, higher than ever before, one of the least populations here. And guess why? COVID. So everybody's saying this disease, this sickness comes from China. And so what? Fear is plastered all over our TVs. We have to fear this nation. We have to fear this people groups. All of a sudden hate crimes go up. Well, a couple of years later, it goes down. Now we're seeing what? So many hate crimes against our Jewish brothers and sisters. What do we have? We have the war between Hamas and Israel right now that's taking place. What is it? It's blasted all over our news, social media, everywhere. So now all of a sudden what? We have hate crimes that are going up. It's so interesting. What you are saying is the narrative is being pushed behind those that have this really, and I'm just going to, it's a wicked agenda to defy, to be the false prophets through media, through social media. And it's the agenda of the enemy to brew hate. And it's, and it reminds me, and I know I shared this in another podcast, but I remember, and Jaz, you remember this cause you were a part of it with us. And when Landon had the vision for, don't even want to say it. So people don't go look up the videos of Rev TV and the old days of us doing television together. I'm like, don't go look up those videos. But he had, it came from Jacob and the sheep. I was at Genesis 30, but where he put the spotted and the speckled branches in front of the sheep and whatever they were looking at is what they

birthed. And the Lord spoke to him and said, this next season of media, whatever is put in front of this next generation, what's ever put in front of the nation, whatever they're watching is what they're going to birth. And so what I hear you saying is echoing literally this scripture through these programs and through media of, of what is being used as these weapons is really this divide in a tool of racism, which is interesting that even when you look at these studies, two years later, Asian hate crimes in town. Why? Because all of a sudden what's being portrayed all over television and social media, it goes down. Now it's, oh, we have to have hate towards our Jewish brothers and sisters because of whatever mantra and lies that they want to put out. And now that begins to go up. Right. And you alluded to it, but I would love to hear you unpack even more. Like you're talking about the agenda that's happening, the reason that people are making money off of it. And I think I've run into a lot of people who, when they hear that they don't believe it because they can't see it. They can't, they can't process it. Like see the practicality of what that actually looks like. Why would they do that? And so I guess I would ask you, could you unpack what is that? How does that play out? How are people making money off of the, this racial agenda? What does that look like? Look at BLM, right? They made 85 to $90 million off of the death of George Floyd. Did George Floyd's family receive any of that money? No. Wow. But they took a situation between Derek Chauvin and George Floyd. It became hyperbolic and polarizing and they ran with the campaign, you know, that Black Lives Matter and we want to plaster that on the streets of DC and in every major urban city in this country. And at that timeframe, when you turned on the television to watch the NBA, that's all you saw was all the woke terms and things like that, and I quickly turned it off and didn't watch it anymore. You turn on the NFL, it was the same thing. All of these woke terms and ideologies plastered on the field, on jerseys and everything like that because there's a business in it and many well-intended whites gave significant funding towards it because of what is called white guilt, right? They feel like they want to be the solution. They feel like, okay, maybe there may be a modicum of responsibility for this, so let me do something to show that our company, our organization, our family, and our legacy

is not tied to that. And so that's how it became a business. Now keep in mind, the BLM organization founded by Patrisse Cullors and two other young ladies, I mentioned Patrisse Cullors in particular because she said that she was a self-avowed Marxist. And I believe two of the leaders of BLM, they were of the lesbian community. And when you would go to the website for BLM, the focus was destroying the nuclear family, and ridden society of the patriarchy and male dominance. And one would have to ask yourself the question, knowing the plight of the marriage rate in the black community, why would a black organization want to capitalize financially off of destroying the nuclear family knowing the dire marriage rate in the black community? Why would you want to do that? Why? Why? First and foremost is because sexually they're not attracted to men anyway. And so they can care less about it. They have this unnatural affection. And they're feeding their lasciviousness. That's what they're doing. They are what you call lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. And so they love the sex act. They love the self-pleasure. They wanted that. And then within that, now that they have it, let's make some money off of it as well. From the 1890s all the way up to the 1950s, the black marriage rate rivaled that of whites. But during the Lyndon B. Johnson days, when he came along with the Great Society Plan, and he found a creative way to get the black man out of the home and to replace him with a $300 to $400 check from the government, out goes the father, in comes big daddy government. And so now you see that structure in the black community now where there's a dependency upon the government rather than working.

You know, and the Bible says, if a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat. So it's biblical to work. What has been taught and pushed towards the black community through government is you don't have to work. Someone owes you something. Because you have been a slave in this country. You've been disenfranchised in this country. The white man owes you, and the reason why they fare better than you is because you built this country. They beat you. They whipped you. They raped your women and did it. What a victim. What a victim. Exactly. They did it in plain sight to break the back of the more stronger slaves. They would take him and allow him to be what you call butt broken in front of his family to break that man. And so they're now saying, you owe us because of what you did to our ancestors, right? But that's not a biblical lens. That's not a biblical framework. Is this coming from a place of love or real defense for the black community? It's not. It's vengeance. But within it, to the point of a question, there's a business in it. And so your Reverend Al Sharpton's, he embodies himself in this argument, and he makes a lot of money off of it. He's a multimillionaire. And so Reverend Al, if you can become a multimillionaire in this country, live in neighborhoods that most people will never live in, both black, white, Asian, Hispanic, and Pacific Islander.

in India, if you can drive some of the most fanciest cars that America has to offer, if you can live high on the hog, right, why can't the next black person? Yeah. And so he has to convince black America that you can't make it in America because America is racist, but I'm a multimillionaire. Right. And so, but so that's, that's where we are. And back to BLM, they pushed this with the intent of realizing their sexual desires and making money and it worked, the greed, right? And the Bible says that the love, that the love of money is the root cause of all evil, which some have coveted after and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows. There's a sorrow in the heart of a person like Reverend Al Sharpton and Reverend Jesse Jackson and Joy Reed and Oprah Winfrey and Whoopi Hart, to look at Goldberg, you know, the whole show, the whole show, it's there, there is a sorrow there because in their hearts of hearts, they know we're multimillionaires. We fly private jets. We don't, we don't go to the regular TSA like most people. We pull up to the, to, to, to, to the launch pad. We, we, we, we, we catch a flight in a manner that most people will never. We wear some of the finest clothes that this world has to offer. They're speaking to things that they have never known, never experienced, don't bear the weight of the consequences of their words, nor what it causes, nor do they have any idea of the consequences of their words. Indeed. I agree with that. And I do think that there was a time period where a person like Reverend Al Sharpton may have started out with the right purpose in mind. But when the struggle ended, he had to conjure up a struggle to make money. We're no longer in the same struggle that we once were during the Jim Crow era where blacks were labeled as three fifths human and told that we had to go to the back of

a restaurant just to get a greasy piece of fried chicken. You couldn't eat at a, at a countertop with someone that's white, you know, man, I just flew to Fort Worth, Texas, sitting in the area of the plane where blacks can never sit. But I sat beside someone that was white, you know, my son's favorite basketball player is MJ. It's, it's Michael Jordan, everything, shoes, jerseys. You are my daughter's favorite preacher, but you know, it's that, that's what, that's where we, that's where we are today. So the struggle that they once talked about, that struggle is gone. And so they've, they've had to find new struggles, but fake struggles to make money. I think it was frustrating for me in even processing that and thinking about that is when the struggle ends, you would think that some of these people will become mouthpieces to let the black community know you, you can have this, like you're not a victim anymore. Like you have these options. And I feel like there was a situation that happened recently with a very well-known black author. She's a super influencer and everybody started boycotting Target. And she got nervous and basically told people, don't, everybody was saying, they're not going to shop at Target. And she was like, that's awesome. But my book said in Target, so like, you know, like, please go buy my book. And I thought, man, what an opportunity to tell people, isn't it pretty cool? We're living in a time where my book is in Target and that you can write a book and your book can be in Target, but you have to join in with the mob talking about the boycott for Target and stuff. And in a moment where you could use your influence for something else, to inspire, to speak life, to champion the black community, like that's frustrating. So speaking of that, why aren't then you're, you're blown up social media of calling all this nonsense out, jazz, you've been a voice in a speaking into the nonsense. Why aren't more, especially spirit-filled Christian leaders, why aren't more black leaders

calling this stuff out and leading the way saying this is nonsense. Don't believe this nonsense. This is the calling that's on your life. Follow this truth. Why aren't more speaking out? Sure. I mean, from my perspective, I'm new, I'm new to the journey. I was, I was scurred for a long time to say anything about this space. And so pastor John has been a. hero or role model in this space. But I would say for me, like, I think one of the reasons is, it's fear of man. I think, I know for me, just a couple of the videos that I've posted, I haven't caught half of the smoke is Pastor John, but like the things, the you're a coon, go back to Master's house, like the crazy comments, and maybe we can get photos of some of the comments or something, but like the crazy comments that you get the moment you step into the space. A friend of mine, one of my brothers in Kansas City, Jeremiah Hicks, just caught a bunch of smoke stepping out, being bold in this space, and the things that he's being called are just wild. And so if you have, if there's anything in you that wants to be liked by, unfortunately, by the black community in this space, it kind of has to die. Like your identity has to be more rooted and grounded in the kingdom than in your racial identity in order to really operate in boldness here. And then I think the other side of it is there are people in, you know, it's an interesting tension and you kind of addressed it earlier, but there are white people in the world that believe that there is no racism that exists, that there's nothing happening at all. And then there's black people that think every single thing that happens is racism, right? If I didn't get the job, I just race the situation. Like, no, you're not qualified, you know? Like, and so I think because of that, those extremes that exist, you have to be willing to speak truth and to be aware of the tension and to know who you're talking to and what your assignment is. And I think sometimes people don't know their assignment. They don't know who they're talking to. And so instead of pursuing those things in the Lord, they just don't say anything. And so those are the immediate things. I remember sitting up at the top of the hill, looking out over this church building when we first got it and you have tears going down your face and us having this combo and me encouraging

you of the voice that God is giving you and not just into this area, into multiple areas, but the biggest thing you said is the attacks that I get from my own race, from the black community, is so intense when I step out and speak on this stuff. You legitimately have to be willing, whether it's family, friends, which I know, John, that you've been through this if you want to speak into it, but it's pretty intense to say to your own brothers and sisters, if you speak truth, which I guess this is, again, why the word of God is a lamp unto our feet, right? Because it's not the only thing that we're persecuted for, but it is. It's a suffering and a persecution that you have to... What you're saying is that you have to be willing to sign up for. Well, no, I agree with that. There are many ways to look at this and to tackle this issue at hand, but it's easy to do what the majority wants you to do. That's easy. It's easy to say what a given political party wants you to say, especially if it's a place like Harlem, New York, and you have Dr. Kevin Johnson there, and Harlem, New York is 82% Democrat, 3% Republican, and the majority is Republican. You're not going to go in there and preach a pro-America, pro-Trump, pro-patriot sermon. You have to cater to the Democrat party, the donkeys, right? You have to succumb to what they believe and drink their Kool-Aid and peddle their rhetoric to keep funding and many preachers find themselves in a box. Either they're going to... And it's politically driven. It truly is. It's either they're going to say what might sound like they are a Republican or they're going to say what makes them sound like a Democrat. Mm-hmm. They can care less about just saying what thus saith the Lord. That's right. Help us. That's where I want to be. That's right. I want to say what thus saith the Lord. Let me get a magnifying glass, apply it to this particular issue, and examine it through the lenses of the scripture. Mm-hmm. Come on. What has God said? Yes.

Get back to that. And what is God's intention? Tent on this issue. Forget the Republican Party. Forget the Democrat Party. It'll make everybody mad at some point. Exactly. And we should, we should. We should ruffle feathers on both sides. And that's something that I've seen even nationally with my campaign to go to school board meetings. I'm ruffling the feathers of Democrats and Republicans. There are many Republicans that don't like what I'm doing. 100%. They don't want me to address the issues of gender ideology, and sometimes even DEI. They want me to leave that alone, you know? But come on, what you're saying right now is you just mentioned a lot of different issues that you get persecuted for. So at the end of the day, it has to be the truth and the word of God that is our foundation. Whether we're talking about race, however we're leading, whatever we're preaching, whatever subject we're speaking to, what does the word of God say instead of what do the dollars drive? What do the followers come or leave at? What is influence? What does politicians say?

What does left and right say? You're saying there has to be a silencing of that, that we get back to what is the word of the Lord. Right, and we have to feel comfortable rebuking our own. I have to feel comfortable rebuking black leaders when they fail to properly exegete scripture and to speak the truth of God's word based on a given cultural issue. White preachers have to feel comfortable rebuking their own when they look at nine minutes and 38 seconds of video footage and say to themselves that putting a knee on someone's neck for that long man, couldn't have been an additional contributing factor to the demise of a person. But instead they say, no, it was only defensinal. Only defensinal, right? Yeah, it was defensinal. It was the comorbidities, the heart, but it was also the disingenuous treatment and lack of care and concern for a person that's on the ground who prior to even being in that state was saying that they could not breathe. And so we need the black preacher to speak up and rebuke their own. And we need the white preacher to do the same. But sadly it's easier to look across the aisle at someone that doesn't look like you and correct them because you fear correcting your own. Or that when we cannot do it with our own, that we serve a culture or race greater than we do

as our daughter and sisterhood of Christ. Sure, sure. And then all of a sudden now our idols are being exposed of what we worship, what's most important to us, what our allegiance is to. And that's not just race, but that is the entire social media culture of influence following all of it. And that's what we say is suffering. Well, if I speak out on this, then they're gonna attack me and I'm gonna lose followers or I'm gonna lose funding. There's many forms of it. And what you're saying is no, all of that nonsense, the fear of people, systems, all of it has to die where we get back to the place of fearing God. Exactly, yeah. And the word of God, it reproves, it rebukes, it exhorts, all of that. And so we must be skilled in doing that with our own communities. I want to make the black community better. So now I'm addressing the lies. So how do we make together the black community better and not just community, but also church? Last year, it was year of reformation. Lord said, holiness is the fuel for reformation. And the Lord made it really clear, personal reformation has to happen first, even what you're speaking to.

In me, it has to happen first before I'm calling others out. And then before I begin to reform the streets, how about the church? The church needs to be reformed first so that God can entrust us with the authority to go and reform outside of the church. And woo, this last year, we saw a lot exposed in every form, in every type of church. We saw exposure take place. I do want to highlight, because you are a voice into it, you have been calling out and exposing those that have been preaching a false word as if it's true. Those that have been preaching false theologies, indoctrinating black. church communities, that ultimately places a greater divide when what you said earlier, Sunday morning, is the most segregated day of the week. Now, I'm super thankful, and this isn't to toot my own horn. I remember Leigh and I, we never wanted to pastor. We didn't want to pastor, and then God chose us to pastor. Like, why God? But we said, if we're gonna pastor, it has to be a church that mirrors heaven. Whatever heaven looks like, it's your glory, your presence, your people. That's what we want the house of God to look like. Now, I think you already gave one of the answers, is that historically, Sunday was this holy day

for black culture to escape slavery and to get to be sons and daughters. Beautiful, right? How, this many years later, is Sunday morning the most segregated place? How is it that some of my black spiritual sons and daughters can say, man, we are being persecuted right now by our families and friends, saying, you go to a white man's church. How are those ideologies still there? All right, first thing, Galatians 2, verse 11, it says, but when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. When he first arrived, he ate with Gentile believers who were not circumcised, but afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter's hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. Come on. And so here, Paul is correcting Peter, and he does it to his face because he was sometimey. He was wishy-washy. When he got with this group, it was okay. When he got with this group, it was okay. Instead of having a consistent message across the board,

you will never find confusion within what the Bible has said, but you will find confusion amongst who parrots the scripture. The parrot, the preacher, will sometimes confuse what God has said to skew it to their position. And so, back to the point of being comfortable with rebuking your own, then also with the issue of the blacks who go to predominantly white churches, being said that you're Uncle Tom's, you're Coon's, you're in your master's house. For the blacks who say that, they are also including and considering denominations like the Church of God in Christ, who was founded in 1907. But around 1914 to 1924, there was a major divide because of the prominence of the black leader of the Church of God in Christ, and the more white brothers that were a part of it at that timeframe, because of racial tensions in the country, the white leaders no longer felt comfortable being under the black leader. So therefore, they split, and here comes the Assemblies of God, and here comes the Church of God in Christ. Both Pentecostals, both believe in hand clapping, foot stomping, tongue talking, cast the devil out, oil slinging everywhere.

The preacher sweats, he sweats when he preaches, doesn't he? Amen to somebody, give me a towel right now. What about Tamarinds? Tamarinds, and hand clapping, foot stomping, all that good stuff, and woo. And so there was a divide. Many see today that there's still a divide. How many predominantly black churches, well, let me say it this way. How many black churches do you see in the culture that's led by a black pastor, but the majority of the congregation is of another ethnicity? Black pastor, and the church is predominantly white. You don't see it, but you see a lot of predominantly white, well, you see a lot of churches that are led by a white pastor, but they get a good concentration of black members to come. Historically, blacks are more generous and gracious when it comes to submitting to a person in the church. And within church leadership, whether they are black or white. Historically, we haven't seen that amount of grace amongst whites. Wow. And so when they see it, they label it in that manner. Now, my personal opinion is go to the church that God has created. call you to. If it's a black shepherd, great. So as long as they're rightfully and rightly

dividing the word of the Lord. If it's led by a white preacher, so as long as they're rightly dividing the word of the Lord. I can care less about the pigmentation and the color of the preacher. Are they preaching the Bible line upon line and precept upon precept? And so that's where that rub and that tension comes from. We the people under God are reforming culture to a pro-life culture through awareness, action, and adoption. We seek justice for baby's lives. We adopt to save lives. Through marches, we raise awareness. Through action, we fight for pro-adoption laws. Through adoption, we build families and save generations because we believe adoption is God's answer to abortion. Join the movement. March, adopt, and reform. Together, we are citizens for life. Visit citizensforlife.com or text LIFE to 59090 for more information. So I hear what you are saying. I can hear the questions and the pushback in my mind, and this is what it would be. And that's why we're on your podcast. Yeah, I love it. I know. There has been so much unhealthy things that have come out of black church culture. Okay. And I can see, I hear, I've had the conversation, so I know the statements of almost what is happening. When does accountability come back to black church culture and that it isn't affairs and all this stuff? And I know we could say that across the board because it's been in both and in every type of community, what we opened up with. But that is what I could hear, a response being, is there an accountability or reformation coming to, yes. Character of leaders? Yes. Yeah. And I think that statistically, blacks only make up 13% of the population in the U.S. anyway. Right? And so statistically, if you were to do a study and compare the two, one would say there's possibly more white failures of leadership than there are blacks. Because it's a bigger bucket. Exactly. You know what I mean? And so you could say that, but I'm sure there's a lot of those problems in the black church of affairs, the misappropriation of funding and fraud and... So really reformation needs to come to the church as a whole. As a whole. It does. And so it's on both sides. You can say the same thing for the black church, you can say the same thing for the white church. But there's always this thing in the back of some people's mind of what looks like me is best for me. Versus is God calling me to submit myself

to this person because they have the message for my life? And so we can grab at things. The moral failures, the style, the tempo. We like it slower. You know what I mean? We don't want it fast. It's too fast for us. We don't want that. The sermon structure may be different. In some cases, it might be more topical than we want. You know what I mean? And we want expository. I know of many black preachers who preach topical sermons. I know of many black preachers who preach expository sermons. It's all preference. But naturally what we've seen across the board is when it comes to blacks, they are more inclined to have diversity and worship than whites have been willing to do so historically. Which has created much of the problem. And I think there needs to be more conversation about that as to more reasons. No, but how? How do we heal from that? How do we take that big gap? You could point to the moral failures. There are plenty to point at across the country. national moral failures being discussed right now, you know what I mean? Whether it's what really happened with T.D. Jakes and what really happened with, man, at Daystar, you know what I mean? It's so many, you know what I mean? And it's hard to decipher between what's truth and what's lies. Exactly. So there's always that. There's a lot of that out there, you know? And so I would quickly refute a person and say, well, yeah, you're just pointing at that issue and that issue and that issue. But beyond all of that, what's keeping you from submitting your life, your family, husband, wife, children, to a particular Black leader? Surely you're not saying that all of the Black leaders that are out there are having affairs and doing such and such. I know of several who are not. Come on. You know what I mean? Come on. And here's a problem. Articles won't be written about them. YouTube podcasts won't be talked about by them. It won't. So we want to exploit the church, tear the church down, and that's why you have Daystar and Dr. Brown and all of these different stories that blow up for the clicks and the money to come in. It's not to build up and to restore a church, it's to exploit it. And so what you're saying is a lot of these stories that have come out, it's on purpose, again, it's just another form of media, but they're masquerading as vessels of light that's exploiting and hurting the church and also creating a divide between races. Of course. They're going to exploit it. And I'm friends with the Lamb family. I pray for them.

I believe that God's going to bring them together at some point and how he decides, because at the end of the day, it's a family. It's a family. It should have been an in-house family squabble that was addressed and ironed out. And so I speak favor and blessings and hope and mercy and grace over that situation so that they can unite. And good people around them that want to restore and heal and not... Exactly. And not capitalize off of it as well. And the same thing with T.D. Jakes. I disagree with a lot of his teaching and practices, but I do want his family to be united and his church to be whole, because there were many sheep that are now lost. You smite the shepherd, the sheep scatter. So there are well-intended souls who will be lost because of what took place. And so it's across the board. I would love to have more conversations about this and to just hear from the other side, why isn't there a lot of assimilation? I do believe that after a whole conversation, it's so obvious that there is such a demonic attack against the Black community. There is a demonic attack from what we started our conversation, from the wicked agendas that come from the political sphere to DEI. I mean, there's so many things that are pinpointed back to Margaret Sanger of Planned Parenthoods and where she's planted her abortion facilities. And there's been this demonic attack against the Black community. And just as a pastor, there's that righteous anger. It's time to rise up. There's obviously an incredible call and gifts on this community that I believe we're in a moment in time in our nation where I believe we're going to see the greatest spiritual awakening America has ever seen. And I believe it's going to be through a unifying of the church. So what do we do, Black, White, Brown, to fight on behalf of this demonic war that's come against the Black community? Yeah, I think it's going back to leaders being comfortable with correcting their own from a biblical standpoint and from a biblical worldview. That's where that is going to start. Someone has to get out of the Democrat bucket or the Republican bucket and be the watchman. The watchman's role was to get into the watchtower gaze out over the city and even be able to discern when there was a dust cloud arising. Because the dust cloud would tell the watchman that trouble is coming, there's a chariot coming, there are horses coming. So more discernment from the watchtower, less watching and more speaking. Because the watchman is called to

do more than just see. He's called to speak and to warn. And so you need more of that. And just more opportunities to have the free, unfettered, unrestrained conversations about real topics, real issues as things arise. As we see the cultural issues of our day that play out that might be race-driven, everyone has to be comfortable speaking up. Taking the position of being silent is not it. There was an era where everyone was becoming well-versed on the history of critical race theory and critical theory. Well, if you spent that much time studying critical race theory and critical theory, then go study Jim Crow. And what you will find out is that there's nothing new under the sun, according to Ecclesiastes. Right? There's nothing new under the sun. And what we're witnessing is just history repeating itself. And that will give both sides a better understanding and more knowledge towards these issues. Jazz, what do you say? What do you believe for racial reconciliation a solution? Yeah, I mean, I think what Pastor John's saying is huge. I think just the boldness, it makes me think of mothers and fathers that will be bold. So one of my favorite things as a Black woman with some white pastas, one of my favorite things has been walking with you guys through this space. And the moments where we've sat in a room with a bunch of the Black leaders in our church and you guys and had some hard conversations and processed some hard things. I'll never forget one of the guys in our community just sharing some really painful experiences as a Black man that he's had with white pastors in the past. And Pastor Landon pulled out a basin of water and washed his feet in his office. And it wasn't for video, it wasn't done, you know, it wasn't for a ministry moment to get reels and likes and stuff like that. It was just an authentic moment of us working through some really hard stuff together. And I think the more we can have conversations like that and moments like that, that are not being done from a place of guilt, that are not being done from a place of pressure, but from a place of we actually want to run together. We actually want to do this together and grow together. I think that that is major. And then the other side of that I would say is there's also been moments where we've had, where you guys have challenged me in things from a kingdom perspective in the way I view things. And there's been times where I've challenged you guys in the way that you see things from a kingdom perspective regarding these issues. And I think there's a very influential Black voice. He's like a commentator on Black church and stuff like that. And I posted a video of him not too long ago, but he said a line basically where he was like,

white people need to know the Black community will never be the ministry of a white man. And just kind of made this statement of like, white people need to know they can never preach to a Black person. Just lay it down. And I would say, I love the things that Pastor John was saying. I would say in addition to that, one of the biggest blessings in my life has been having some white pastors who will say from a kingdom perspective, have you considered this? Where we actually have relationship, but you're challenging perspective. And I have the position where I can, we can wrestle through it and talk through it because some of the perspectives that I've had that have been fed into me through the Black community have not been kingdom. And I needed somebody who did not look like me to come and bring a different perspective that I trusted. And so that's been major for me. And so I think mothers and fathers who can have those conversations who are willing to sit down at the table is huge. And I think one of the biggest, one of my biggest frustrations, again, you kind of alluded to it is we talk about all this different forms of racism, systemic racism, all these different things. But I think sometimes we miss some of the biggest forms of racism and ways that the enemy is attacking the Black community. We don't talk about abortion when we talk about racism. Another thing we don't talk about is the emasculating of men and the breakdown of the family unit. and how strategic it feels that homosexuality in LGBT community, it feels like it's put a target on the black community. Me and one of the other pastors in our house serve in the HIV and AIDS council for our county. And we literally are constantly being told when the studies are being done that the number one demographic being affected by HIV AIDS are black men. And so that's telling me something. And so anyway, I'm saying that to say, the family is under attack. And so if we're not, if we don't have black families intact, then we need mothers and fathers in the body of Christ to step into those spaces into the relationships and have the hard conversations that should be happening at home. Yeah, they can't because the family's broken apart. Yeah. And so men of God, like Pastor John, that are speaking up as a father in the culture through social media. We need that boldness. We need mothers like you that are willing to say, you know what, I'm a white lady. I'm going to do a podcast about racism. That's amazing. But we need more of that. Yeah. You know what? You know, when you were just sharing so many, so many things were flying there. There's so many subjects there. We could probably do like a three, four hour podcast for sure. You know, when you, when you bring up abortion and

LGBTQ and all of these different things, it's, it's, I've heard conversations even from like, you know, people in the middle on the issue. And this, this goes to show how Pastor John, it's so ingrained the sides of Democrat and Republican, how ingrained they are into culture and race because abortion is supposed to be like the white person's topic. That's crazy. Because it's coming against a black community more than the white community. When in New York, more black babies are being murdered than actually being birthed, you know, but you have so many white people in the fight, um, for life and actually same with human trafficking, which is wild. The majority, I think it's like 40% of children that are being trafficked is, um, black children, the majority of traffickers. And I forget exactly what it is. I think it's almost like 50 some percent is black men. And so, but you have white predominantly women fighting these fights to stop the slavery of these children. They're not like, Hey, you know, am I just fighting, you know, for the enslaved of, of my race of the white children? No, it's for Asian, it's for Hispanic and black community, which is predominantly the highest rates for trafficking and abortion. And if you're black and talk about those topics, you should be using your justice voice to talk about something else. Yeah. Or if you're somebody on the middle ground and help, help me, help me with this. We're just going over. We're just going to go over. Right. Okay. I'm asking all the questions, but I hear this couple and I like them a lot. Like I like them. I like a lot of things that they say. And then I was just like, so if, if abortion is barely mentioned, you know, I'm not talking about YouTube. Cause you guys are, you guys are wild. And in all this, I was just in this and everybody, but, um, by certain black spiritual leaders talking about abortion, they so fastly when it's brought up, well, I just wish that pastors out there speaking about abortion so much care, just as much about the people that are getting the abortions and understood what communities they're coming from. Now, when you say it like this, you are literally implying that if you are probably potentially a white pastor that is standing up to abortion, you are legitimately saying, we don't care about the families. We don't care about the moms. We don't care about the communities. Now, what did you just say to your following and your people that are listening? You just put a strong implication to all of your listeners that all of those people that are standing up for abortion, don't care about moms. Don't care about those families. Don't care about black Brown communities. Therefore you shouldn't care about abortion.

Right. Therefore. Yeah. Yeah. It's enhanced. We, the conversation has moved from it being called murder, IE abortion to now it's reproductive justice, because if you add justice to a thing, it makes it sexy. There's nothing's wrong unless it's justice attached to it because the gospel is solely about justice, but they overlook where the scripture says, first and foremost, learn to do right and then seek justice. In his eyes. In his eyes. In that order. In that order. It's got to be righteousness. Righteousness is the red carpet that brings and ushers in justice. That's right. There's no justice without righteousness. Exactly. There can't be any, they're the same root word and Hebrew justice and righteousness are one of the same. That's why the world will never be able to. provide justice or any of these secular justice movements because there is no righteousness. Exactly. Absolutely. So I had this dream, I had this dream I think just like a week or two ago, and I was going to a very prominent black man's church to speak at his church, and to be honest, I've spoken out against him and some of his teachings and stuff in his life previously and in the past. And I'm kind of like, what am I doing here? What am I doing? I'm kind of like on full discernment mode. And then I realized I've been asked to come minister. And the glory of God comes, like spirit of revival hits the place. And this prominent black pastor looks at me, and Pastor John, I see like this godly sorrow in his eyes, like this humility and this, it was almost like if I could read his face or what the spirit of the Lord was saying through him, God, would you come and do it again? Would you come and pour out your spirit and your revival?

And this isn't just, I want to say this isn't, obviously we want God to pour out on every church, on the Methodists, on the Catholics, on the, it doesn't matter what color church, but I felt like it was specifically for the black church because I believe God is so good despite when we're working on our indifferences and whether or not we have what percentages of white, black, brown in our churches. And if it gets too nonsense where we're trying to force it in our own strength, it's awkward anyways. It has to be a beautiful thing of the Lord that we care and have the conversations and God does it. But in the midst of us figuring all that out, God is sovereign. He wants revival in his house and in his people. And I, as a white woman, am a speaker at this conference. And as he's looking at me, would God do it again? A second wave in this dream comes of revival and reformation and this outpouring. And I truly believe, and this is why I wanted to have this conversation, ultimately, what's the point? What's the point of one church gets revival so social media sees it and one church blows up or one college blows up? That's not enough. It's not enough for one church to blow up and win revival. It's not enough for a decade. I want my kids carrying the torch of revival. I want revival and reformation generation to generation. And so this means it has to cross race. It has to cross age. It has to cross nations. And I truly believe those that are listening right now, God is bringing revival back to black church, again, black church communities, to black church leaders. I believe for those that have been, and I'm just going to say this because Pastor John told me to, to the white community that has been so critical of black church and reading

all the headlines and believing it at first and then offended when it's white church leaders that are being called out or exposed. But we were being, we were able to defend our black brothers and sisters when they were being exposed, whether, whether it was true or not, was it dealt with appropriately and then didn't make us feel good to actually hear it and listen to it, or did it crush us and did we weep in repentance knowing that God's heart for his people, it doesn't matter what race we are, he wants to pour out his spirit in this hour so that what? He could return for a great harvest of every single color and every single race. So are we crying out? Are we believing for revival and reformation in every sphere, in every type of church right now? Because I believe God wants to pour out his spirit in black church, white church, brown church, mixed church, churches around the nation, underground churches, in every type of church because he's coming back soon and he's going to judge each one of us on how we loved and how we operated in unity and how we interceded. Is our intercession all about us? Is our intercession all about our own race, our own church, our own family? Or is it for the big C church, for the kingdom, his church, his bride? And this is a place that we have to get back to is that we begin to weep when our brothers and sisters are in pain, that we begin to intercede for God to answer and to come on behalf of all people, all races and all nations because that's what God is jealous for. He is jealous for an end time revival where his church, no matter denomination, race, nation is alive, is alive and believing, standing firm and steadfast in him. And so I hope today that this conversation challenged you. I hope your conversations are going to change. I hope you're going to. and have more conversations with other races around you to understand what is going on to bridge a gap, to bring unity back. What I opened up with, can you imagine, can you imagine God's church unified? What our nation and what the nations would look like if God's church was unified?

And so to close out, I want to ask Pastor John to just pray. I want him to pray for us as the church, for the stuff that he called out earlier. Why? If this is a real thing and it hit your heart when he was saying it, you were irritated or you were mad when he said, why can't a white person submit under a black pastor or preacher? It's a good question for you. Can you? And if you have issues with that, then you need to go before the Lord. You need to submit your heart, your thoughts, your ideological thought processes and ideas about church and how leadership should look. You need to go submit all of your ways and ask God for his ways. You need to ask him, like Exodus says, teach me your ways, Lord, so that I may know you and find your favor. And so, Pastor John, would you just close out in prayer for us as the bride of Christ for healing and restoration? And in my humor, you know, I'm going to start a church and I want white people to come. Yes. All right. I'm going to lead a church. White people, go to Pastor John's church. I want 10% black. I want 80% white. Do you hear me? I want them. I want blondes. I want blue eyes. I want brunettes. I want redheads. I want everything to come to my church.

You have a black pastor. What do you think about that? All right. Let's pray. They will be there for sure. All right. Sounds good. Dear Heavenly Father, God, we thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you. We thank you because your word says that you are not a respecter of persons, but we do know that you look at the heart, but man looks at the outer shell, the outer appearance. And God, sometimes we can identify with the outer appearance when it mirrors our appearance. We can understand things better. We can comprehend things better. We can be more merciful and gracious when the outer appearance mirrors ours, but when it comes to the outer appearance, not mirroring ours, we can be more inflammatory in what we say and what we think and how we perceive a thing. We can be less gracious. We can be less merciful.

We can be less understanding, especially when we have a medium that's hell bent and driven towards positioning one group of people in one manner and sanitizing and softening the blow when it's someone else. God, this is the work of Satan. It's the work of the enemy. It's the work of the accuser of the brethren. It's the work of the one who goes constantly trying to bring up faults and error and challenges within said people or communities. God, you are the one that should get the glory. You are the one that leads and guides us. Make sure, God, that as we seek after you, that we understand the fullness of being made in the imago Dei, in the image of God, in the image of Christ, that even though our outer appearance might be different, we are yet one blood. Yes. And God, in that oneness, we find humility, we find grace, and we find mercy. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you guys both for today and being part of this conversation. Thank you, everybody that listened to this conversation. I hope it blessed you, and I'll see you on another episode of Holy Disruption. Thank you for joining me on this episode of Holy Disruption, where we are awakening the bride of Christ and calling the church back to holiness. If you'd like to continue with me on this journey, follow me on social at Heather Schott, and make sure to subscribe at Mercy Culture on YouTube and all podcast platforms.