Family and Finances: Episode 4, Part 3

Someone asked, should I pay down debt first, or be giving first? And whoever asked that, I just want to thank you for that. Because it is a very popular notion that your first priority with money is to get out of debt. The Bible does not support that. It never says that's first. It says it's a priority. It says it's important, but not first. God's Word says He is first. And I think because our journey was unique, it's important for us to remind people that we weren't out of debt when we started down this journey. But we didn't say we want out of debt, then we will honor God. In other words, God, you help us first, and then we'll give back to you. That wasn't our attitude at all. It wasn't a bargain with God. It wasn't the prosperity gospel that we're going to give something so He'll give us something back. It was a heartfelt desire and acknowledgement. And in some ways, just a sense of God's grace on me for not giving, that I wanted to make up for how I treated Him. I treated God poorly, and I was ashamed of that. And I would rather have made Him first and kept the debt as opposed to not making Him first. The goal wasn't just to improve our finances. The goal was to say, God, you've been so good to us and merciful. You put up with me when I was so stubborn and indifferent. You've known all along that I was not generous, that I was selfish, and you tolerated me. And now, how could I not? How could I not honor Him first? And He took care of the rest of it.

Right. Well, I think couples that are in that position should pray together, decide on how much to give first, and ask God to provide in ways that they can't even imagine so that they can pay their debt and take care of all their other bills. Well, it's important on the practical side that you agree with each other. And what happened to us is you were patiently waiting for God to get a hold of me so that we could have a basis for agreeing. And there are a lot of couples who are stuck right now, and maybe they're not married to a believer, and this is frustrating to them. Or their believing husband just doesn't see, like I was, I didn't see how that could happen to us. And you just prayed for me, and I think you ought to give hope to those who maybe felt like you did, that you're married to a very stubborn man. Well, an older woman wisely told me not to nag, but just to pray, to take it to God and wait. And waiting's hard, but it's the word wait is repeated over and over in the scripture. And in that waiting, we develop a dependency on God. And then when he works, we see prayers answered in a mighty way. Well, you were waiting and praying, and then you prodded a little bit to get me into a crown class. I mean... I really manipulate. Well, I work behind your back, I guess. I won't use the word nag, but you were persistent. And we went to class together, and it sort of ended my spiritual drought, because I wasn't reading the word, I wasn't having my mind renewed, I was pursuing money, I was thinking again that more, more, more, more, more would be the answer to our problems. I would go and earn the money, and I would get the debt paid off, and I would make all the right moves. And when God showed me that he was my provider, and I could rest, and honestly, Ann, he's

done far more than we could ever dream or imagine. More than I could have ever done on my own, he's been actively involved in our finances. He has, not just his principals, but he himself has been involved in repairing our finances in a way that we just are forever grateful. And I even forget about the fact that he says that we're laying up for ourselves treasures in heaven. I know that that's something he's promised, but it's not what motivates me. It's okay if it does motivate some people, but just to be with him is motivation enough. And to think he's coming with gifts, it's unimaginable, isn't it? But he's taking care of us. Let me go back to something very practical for people that have asked a couple more questions When is it okay not to give? When is it okay to say no to giving? I think if there's a problem in a church, if there's obvious dysfunction or mishandling of funds, don't give. I would, I mean, do you go to the elder board or what would you do? Well I think we, as a policy end, we don't give where there's poor stewardship. If there's poor stewardship going on, it's very difficult for us to get excited about wherever that is, whether it's a church or any organization. And if it's poor stewardship in somebody's life, we want to help them with the principles of stewardship before we give or try to solve a problem. Otherwise the money's likely to be wasted. I think there are times when people are upside down financially and they are not in agreement as a couple on what needs to be first. And it's wise as a couple to seek unity before you insist on changing your giving habits. I get that a lot. People ask me, I want to give 10%, my husband wants to give 2%, or my wife wants to give 2% and I want to give 20%. And they're not in agreement. And I think that takes some of the joy out of it and they really need to be unified.

God doesn't need the money. He gives us the privilege to participate as his givers. And when you both come to see it that way as a couple, that's when it becomes this exciting adventure. Because it is an act of faith. And it's going contrary to the way the world spends money. So it requires a renewing of the mind, staying in the word, and getting on the same page. I think about the rich young ruler a lot because he had his finances together. I'm assuming, and adding to the scripture a bit, but I'm assuming he probably wasn't in debt, probably had savings, probably had good investments, probably had accumulated quite a bit of surplus. And in many people's eyes, he would be a financial success. But when you look at what God challenged him to do, it's either the worst financial advice in the Bible or the best. And I see it as the best. He said to the rich young ruler, sell everything you have. Well that had to be a challenge in and of itself, just to let go of it. But then he said, give it away. It's not yours. And he was so welded to those things and his possessions that he went away sad. He had the opportunity of a lifetime to trust God, by faith, to see the riches of God unfold in his life. But he chose the trinkets of the world. And I was the foolish person in that story at one point in my life. I can see my own heart in his heart when he says, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to give it away. And yet there's that moment of faith when we say, well, I'm going to be vulnerable if I give. I might be in need again. Even after he thought his needs would never be, he would never be lacking, suddenly Jesus

said, well, go lacking again. See what will happen. And so I think giving is a great way to grow spiritually and to mature as one who really deeply trusts God. Yeah, and recognize that he owns it all. We're not going to take anything with us. And he gives us opportunities to share what he's given us with those who really do have needs. And I would just add, as we start to wrap it up, Anne, that one of the things that you and I have agreed to and experienced on this journey is we do want to be generous with our family. We want to try to demonstrate to them that they are a priority and love them and take care of them, not just God's church and his causes, but they're our cause. They are a part of the joy we get of helping them in any way that we can. And so never set up a scenario where your children might think that they're not as loved in your priorities of taking care of things as you love the church and you love God's work. Or our parents. We've told both our parents that they shouldn't worry about the future. Yeah. It's been a joy to be able to say that, hasn't it? You know, when you say that, it's such a comforting thought to tell your parents don't worry about it. And when I say don't worry about it, they know that they could live here if they want to and that they don't have to worry about bills

in the future if things get bad. But that's God's message to his givers. Don't worry about it. Right. I'll be there. I'll be there when you can't take care of yourself. I'll be there when you've depleted your resources. I'm standing by at all times to rescue you. Anything else you want to add or any practical advice or wisdom in on giving that we haven't covered? Well, one thing that we do at the end of the year especially, we try to reach a number of giving for the year. And so we'll look back over organizations we've given to in the past. And we think about independent of one another, an amount we want to give. And then we come together and agree. Typically, we've come up with the same numbers. Well, we always try to do more the next year than we did the prior year. And that's one of the goals that we have is to stretch in our giving and to never get complacent or stay in a place where it feels totally comfortable. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said the best amount to determine to give is you give until it's uncomfortable. And that's probably a good place to be. Right. Well, thanks so much, Anne. Next time, we're going to talk about more of the craziness

that we've been through and how God has sorted it out. But it's been really special to reflect upon this journey with you. Yes, it's been great. Thank you.