What is Church Like Inside a Federal Prison?

- What you're seeing right here are a bunch of prayer requests from prisoners. And you know what they say on them? They say prayed for it. Today we talk about what it's been like to minister, to prisoners, the Bible is very clear. Jesus said, "I was in prison and you visited me." Today I sit down with our campus director at Butner Prison and we talk all about prison ministry. You're gonna enjoy this episode. You're gonna be filled with hope. And if you want more episodes like this, subscribe or like below. Thanks. (upbeat music) - You're listening to Open Bible Open Life with Pastor Kyle Mercer. At Two Cities, we're passionate about making and mobilizing disciples. And that doesn't end with Sunday. We're here to bring God's word and work into your week so you can be equipped to be sent wherever you go. - All right, Brad, I am glad to have you back on the podcast. You and Anitra were here how long ago? Did you even remember? - That was last, it's about one year ago. - About a year ago. First just talking about your guys passion for prison ministry. We won't revisit all that.

Part of what I wanted to have you on today. Okay, and I know our listeners, especially those of us who are at Two Cities Church, we wanna know what's going on with prison ministry. So let me, before we even get into the details, let me, I've got two scripture verses. And maybe there's a different scripture verse. We didn't talk about this before we turn the cameras on. Maybe there's a different scripture verse that you go to. When I think about ministering in the prisons, okay, outside of just the whole gospel idea that we go to them because they can't come to us, the picture of the gospel. But I think of two verses. One is Matthew 25, where this is, of course, the sheep and the goats, where Jesus says, "I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me. I was in prison and you came to me." Okay, so I think of that verse. That might be the better known verse. And then the other verse I go to is in, they're very end of Hebrews. Okay, "Let brotherly love continue, do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for thereby some have entertained angels unaware." Then it says this, "Remember those who are in prison as though in prison with them." Where two questions, where did you get your passion

for prison ministry? And are there any verses outside of those two that make you think of ministering to prisoners? Yeah. I'll answer that second one and those are the two, good. Those are two that just jump out to me. And then I love to pray the Psalms over those guys, just the passion and the heart. And you know, 'cause they're such a role-ness of that and the emotions they're showing there. But I'd be remiss, I feel like the end of a NASCAR race where they thank their sponsors. And I just wanna, first of all, thank two cities. Yeah, you got it. And the leadership for all that you guys have done to spur this ministry for just the Spirit-led church that we are able to attend. And a special shout out to you, to David Vogel, and all he's done to support and help me with that. Well, you're welcome, and I know particularly Pastor Dave has tried to remove any barriers and to reduce all friction to us getting to Butner. Yes, yeah. So yeah, I was able to share about a year ago, but my passion, if your call actually did not have a passion I remember, I wanted you to restate some of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a newly saved Christian about four to five years ago. Yes. And so I'm thinking, what am I gonna do?

Lord, just point, open the doors, show me how I can serve you. And the opportunity came along here at our local prison ministry for safe county jail in prison to work alongside of Keith and Emily Davis, who are members of our congregation, and to help support them, and it's actually running a 5K with the guys. It was really cool, really neat event, and they're having a game this year. And so, reluctantly, I was kind of drug along there, I was like, okay, get your cards. And then I was just telling, one of the guys there, I was like, you don't realize how much a part of you are of my story here, 'cause he's there, he's getting it out in less than 100 days, which is neat. But, and just like, okay, we're sitting here in a group, and a lot of the fears that people have going into this, and it's understandable, it's like, I can't do that. I don't know if it's a safety issue or just an insecurity issue. And a lot of that was probably hitting me as well. And you stay in there and you start talking to these men, and you realize these are just guys that have a brokenness, and as you've preached before, they're just one or two bad decisions ahead of me. - 100%. - Yeah. - And so, you know, gentleman, I'll bring him here to two cities and have him, you know, share the gospel.

I mean, you share the gospel with him as well. But and it's just, it's also a matter of just doing life with these guys. Yes. Um, you don't, every moment doesn't have to be about, Hey, what did you think about the sermon of the gospel? It's, it's like, let's just sit, talk, have a meal, whatever it is. So, and so, and that's just kind of carried forward. And it's been, it's been, I mean, a year ago, it's the first job that I've ever had where somebody asked me to do something that I like to do. Whereas I didn't go out and search it like it was, you know, I grew up in backgrounds, actually in health care administration. I'm not doing that now. And then my wife, I own a store that's great, but I mean, I'm kind of part-time doing that, but this is just a call, you know, it's a part-felt need. You know, you, you, you and an each are together. I mean, when you guys get together, I hear the heartbeat. And again, people can go back and listen to that episode, but Anitra talking about just her family a little bit in some of the story background. Let's talk about Butner. Okay. So most people who are listening, I'm guessing maybe the vast majority of people who are listening have never in their life been in a federal prison. But there is a, I think for the average American, there is a fascination just with, I don't know if that's the right word.

There's interest. There's a, there's questions about what's prison like. I mean, I just think about, you know, one of my favorite movies of all time is Shawshank Redemption. One of my favorite shows, I can remember when Netflix first came out, Mark and I, we would, you know, we couldn't even believe that you could watch a whole season, you know, you back to back to back. Right. And I remember we watched Prison Break, you know, which I never understood how there could be a prison break season two since the whole thing. But that's a lot of things. But I just think about how many movies HBO had a series for a long time, Oz. I mean, I think the average modern American is fascinated with prison. What's it going on? What goes on in there? What are the men like in there? And then, you know, let's start with a couple of things. What is the difference, because you mentioned, hey, for Scythe Prison, local, and then Butner Prison, federal, can you help, like, talk to me and talk to our listeners like we're in fifth grade? Yeah, sure. I'd be like, hey, because I don't, what's the difference? Like, what are some of the biggest difference between being in a local prison and being in a federal prison? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's a great question and to break it down on

fifth, I mean, you're on my level now. Oh, yeah, yeah, so the, of course, the local one here is state run and these are people who have committed crimes that are generally localized, some may be smaller, but not always necessarily. The one here in, in Winston Salem is a considered a camp, so it's minimum security. So these guys actually have privileges, not all of them, but many of them, they can come and go, they can work and get paid to do it. And there's a lot more freedom. They are, most of them are expected to be on their way out. So like when you, when you go there, you're going to meet a guy who's going to be just a few years sentence. Potentially, not necessarily, but they're maybe the end of a long sentence. Okay, but at a time, you're getting some time with them more. So they're at the end of that, which, which I guess in one sense is, and this isn't the reason we do prison ministry, but it's a great opportunity to say, you know what, this person could actually come to our church afterwards, right? And we can continue to administer them. I don't know if, if you heard Pastor Joby say this when he was here, I can't remember if he said on the podcast, or to me personally, but they have three prison campuses and he says that what he, I think I take it totally as per privately, but I'll say on the podcast, but say, I forget the name of one of their prison campuses, let's call it Blair. So the Blair campus. And he would say, he'll have prisoners get out of prison and then they'll come to the San Pablo campus when he's preaching live, and he says, they never say, I got out of the prison campus.

They said, we were at the Blair campus, we're not the San Pablo campus, you've been a part of our church all along. I just, when he said that, you know, so I think about one of the, one of the blessings and benefits of ministering in the local prisons, especially with what you're saying is we can do some deep ministry to the men and women, depending on what prison we're at, while they're in there, as well as build the relationships so that when they finally get out, because what's that last time, were you telling me about, there's just some stories that guys get out of prison and they just, there's a low level anxiety. - Oh, I'd even say a high level anxiety. - A high level anxiety, yeah. - Like I don't know how to function this world. I don't want to, what I'm gonna mess up again. And I don't want to be in a prison to be my main identity, but I just need help transitioning. - Yeah, and you mentioned Shawshank Redemption earlier. I mean, there's, there's a piece of that. I mean, it is very relatable to their circumstances. And you think of the character Brooks and there, and he gets out and he's like, the whole world went out and got itself in a hurry. - Yeah. - And there was a, there's a gentleman who was at the local, or is it the local prison still, and he is serving a life sentence, but he has privileges to be able to get out. He's been in there 35 plus years. and I was so nervous the first time I visited. Like I don't even know how to turn on a sink anymore

'cause they're automatic. And I don't know what these cameras are in cars or anything like that. It's just like-- Yeah, you're thinking they haven't driven a car in 20 years. Right, right, yeah. Or more, yeah. Or more depending on who we're talking about. I'm thinking about the car that I grew up in that has roll down windows and that's your air conditioning in these guys. It's real though, wow. Yeah, so there are those at the local level now and the federal level, it feels almost like you imagined in the movies. That's what I'm picturing in my mind. So I've not had, as we're filming this yet, I want to go to Butler, I've not been there. We're trying to figure out a way for me to get there. So I want to do that. Tell us what it's like as much as you can. I don't want you to share anything you can't share, but like I know Pastor Dave got to go. We've had, of course, volunteers and staff. I've not been able to get it. So I'm gonna be as in the dark about it as a rapper and listener. Like tell us like from the moment of like you pull up, like what is it like? Is it how high security does it feel?

What's that environment like? Right, right. I mean, it is intimidating. It is a good word for first time. I appreciate your honesty. Yeah, because you go there and it's always, you know, when you take new people there, you kind of, you're always looking at their face. Kind of like, you see, you see, you know? At what moment though? Is it like, is it like there's a moment where you cross over and you see the prison? Is it real far away? Like what's that? If it was a movie scene, what's it like driving up? Are you, is it a long? Yeah, it is, right. You turn into a complex. So buttoners actually made up of four different complexes. There is a minimum security, two medium, and then a hospital there, federal complex. So there's no maximum security? No, but I will say that the hospital there is the only one in the country that has a dedicated oncological ward. And so anybody in the country that needs oncology treatment like a pretty sophisticated treatment who's in the federal system comes there. So they have some high level, high level prisoners there at a good time.

Yeah, it's the kind of place. My wife and I just watched the Netflix show, "The Unibomber." Yeah. It's the movie. And you know, there's obviously some mental things there and you just wonder. So I don't know his whole story. But that kind of, the insanity stuff, the schizophrenia stuff, like what you're saying is, and I've heard this before, a lot of those people at least immediately will go to buttoner prison. Because even if they'll eventually land somewhere else in the nation because of the care and specialty that they need. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And even, so the first thing you do when you pull into a complex, you pass this hospital and it's a little bit eerie, just the sense that I think of the medical centers that we have here in Winston-Salem. They're huge. They employ 20,000 people or whatever it is. So the first thing you see is a medical center. Yeah, yeah, and, but it's a single building that has a thousand beds in it, but there are not many cars out there. So I'm just kind of like, you know, it's just not the same.

Interesting. The same one. And you wonder what kind of doctor particularly is. Yeah. I don't know a lot about that stuff. I don't know if people medicine would know, but there's obviously a certain type of person who goes, "This is what I want to do." Yeah, right. But we're working at a federal prison hospital. And I think there are some like that may work for Duke and have privileges there. And so that might cost that. That makes sense. Yeah, with that area. Okay, so you could drive in, you kind of have that feeling of like, we're in a compound and you see the hospital, you can drive it. And then so then you start to pass by the barbed wires and the high chain link fences there. And you're kind of looking at any like, "Okay, this feels a little bit more real." Is somebody, are you at a gate at this point? There's no gate. No, not at that point. The first time I have to cross into security is when you enter the building. So the average person could drive as far in as you're saying, but they're not going to get into the building

obviously until-- That's right, that's right, yeah. And then so you, we pull in and then you finally, we pull into Buttoner FCI2, Buttoner Federal Correctional Institute 2. So they call it the deuce, is where we are. And you pull-- Is that minimum? It's a medium level. Medium level, okay. Which in the prison system, as I've read up on it, I mean, medium level, unless you're out there with the, there's one super max prison out in Colorado, but unless you're up there, medium level's pretty much your higher level of those prisoners. And there's, yeah, there's all kinds of people in there. But, so you go there and then you start to realize there's two fences around the place. There's, and each one of them's 20 feet high and they have barbed wires, for example-- And all you see is security guys on the roof and like the classic things you see with guns and stuff like that. I don't see the security guys on the roof, but there is a car that circles around the whole, there's a track that kind of circles around the outside of it. And so they're just looking for it. Yeah, every couple of minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you, I'm guessing you just have this feeling of like, I'm trying to think of this psychologically.

- Yeah, oh yeah. - I mean, these men are not leaving for many of them, some of them ever, many of them for another decade or two, and I'm just wondering, I'm worried to get into this. How you minister to men who go, I wear the same thing. I live in the same eight by whatever cell and I've been here since I was 25 and I'm now 40. And I'm just, I wanted to start with some of this stuff to kind of get what it feels like. So you walk in there, you're in a medium. Where do you actually, where does the church gather when you come in there? And do you ever have access to any of the men outside of that room? Or is it, they come to you and then, I know we can do both gathering in groups and it's the time period there. Outside of that room, do you have access to any of the rest of us? - Mm-hmm, and so, let me-- - Yeah, go ahead. - We go in there and it's almost like going through TSA at first, you take off your shoes, you walk through security, that actually-- - No matter how many times you've been there, you're going to go through this every time. - That's right, yeah. And there's only certain things you can wear, there's a dress code.

- Can't bring your phone. - That's right, yeah, phone stays in the car. It'll bring just a key fob for that. And then, yeah, other than that, minimal jewelry. So you go in, you give them your license and they're behind, you can't see them, they're behind a window and you're sliding it through and somebody's escorting you by this point. We have a chapel and escorts us, but there could be a guard or somebody. So you walk through, secured, oh, by the way, at that point in time, you're stamped on your hand with some invisible ink. So if anything should happen in there, you give them your ID and you're stamped. So if anything should happen on the inside, they know who belongs outside. So they have your ID, they can verify, that's you, and to get in and out, you must have your hand stamped to do that. So you go through two sliding doors. - Let me stop for one second. Is there a certain number of people that we can only bring each week? Does that make sense? - They have not said no. - Okay, on average, we're bringing how many people each week? - 12 to 15. - That's what I thought.

Okay, okay. - Yeah, I think at our highest, maybe one's brought 15. - So God bless you and all of our volunteers and servants because you're making the two hour drive. And then you are, there's a, I mean, I don't like TSA. It's like, okay, here I go. I'm submitting myself immediately. I'm giving up my rights in some ways 'cause you're gonna hit my, you know, stamp my hand, take my watch, I can't bring my phone. And then I'm going into this environment where now I'm trusting the leadership of this prison to protect me and care for me and getting back out of here. You know, 'cause who knows? I'm not speaking about any of the men who would come to our worship services. I'm just talking about in general, being in a federal, in a prison, medium security for multiple hours. - Yeah, yeah. - So they stamp your hand, you know, you're wearing almost nothing, you're wearing clothes and that's, and you don't have your phone and you walk in now what you're doing next. - Yeah, I mean, God bless two cities for allowing us to get uniform t-shirts that say two cities. - Yeah, they're cool. They're cool, yeah. - So we walk in and the guard has to open up the glass door.

You go through, then you got about 200 yards, maybe a good three iron, four years, something like that, you know, and I don't know. But, and then they have another 20 foot gate and that's what the concrete walls are around there and more barbed wire and you go in there. And then once you're inside, you're in the yard, essentially there, and there are men walking around there. So if there's anybody in your general area, they're supposed to say certain areas, but if they're anybody in the certain area where you are, you have contact with them, you can talk to them. I often, you can shake their hand, that's kind of the limit of the contact. - And what are the guys doing in the yard? - There's some that are, a lot, that yard in particular, they're moving them back and forth between dorms and maybe recreation or programs, lunch, whatever it might be. There actually is a place to work over there where they, the unicorn they call it and they, I think they sew uniforms for like the military. - And so there's some of that. Is there like a library? - I like, you know, that's a good question. I know they can get books and materials over there. So as I walk in, we go in and it looks like almost a, you walk another 200 yards or so, 300 yards and you're in the space that we're gonna be in. And in that space, it's a,

it looks like a whole cafeteria. 20 foot high ceilings, linoleum floors, concrete wall. And there are books in there. And specifically we have Bibles, but there's other materials. And I don't know if it's all religious or if it's non-religious as well. I know we take them Bibles so they can have. And then there's good plastic lawn chairs, they set them up and there's a screen on one side. So the space fits. It can be opened up to 250. And so we get there first, and then the men arrive after us. So they are moved at a certain time. - Okay, so you get there and there's not men there yet, and then they're brought in once you guys are there. - They're usually five or six men, and they're like chaplains assistants or something like that, or we'll release, I think. - And the men arrive, and there's, we've had, you know, it seems like, from what I can tell, anywhere between 100 and 200 guys should hop. - Yeah, yeah. We're averaging more recently, closer to 100, and it was up to about 150, but, you know, the beauty of working in the system or the way it is, is these guys get moved. So they're being shipped out and moved, so they had a decent room.

- With in-botener or to other prisons? - Other prisons. - Okay, yeah. - It is, I don't want to get too much on the weeds here. Can anybody in-botener come to this campus? - No, no, it's only for the button or two, which houses about 14 to 1500 people at any given time. - Okay. - So you're still having about 5% of button or coming, going, okay, we're willing to give up this. Are they giving up something to come to this? - Yeah, there's rec time, usually for them, so they can go out there and-- - That's just good to know, this is not like, they don't have, I'm not patronizing it, but they don't have the free schedule to go, yeah, I got it, it's like, no, this would be an hour that would otherwise be my very limited free time to do what I want. I'm gonna use it to gather for worship, which is powerful. Okay, let's, 'cause now I wanted to give all the background. - Yeah, no, no, that's perfect. - That's the first episode, like, and I wanted it myself, and I want people to realize, like, we're in, by, we, I mean, really you and your team and God bless you, and we're trying to go to the front lines. You know, as wisely, what do they say? Wise as a serpent, you know, gentle as a dove. But that's what we're trying to do, but that's the context, okay, so then, you know,

one of the things we said is we just want to, there's a lot of different things that ministries, non-profits, Christian organizations can do in a prison. We just want to do good old church. We want to sing, we want to pray, we want to preach, we want to minister to each other. Talk to me about what a worship service looks like, and then just tell us some stories. - Sure, sure. - Please, love to thank you for listening. - Or anything you want to talk about. - Yeah, yeah, and the one thing I was gonna mention also about the facilities, it's just gray concrete. So it's very neutral out there, when you see-- - Yeah, I get it. - And planned and kind of not-- - It wouldn't actually be the biggest environment to go, we're gonna have church and worship in this environment. But it's gotta be, all right, we're bringing the worship. We're bringing the spirit and truth. - Yeah, amen, amen. So it very much is defined by how they get these men to us when they have to leave. And so what we've done more recently, we had waited 'til everybody got there and started the worship service, which is just what would happen is there's a chaplain that he usually gets up and says a word or two, and then I'll get up after him and say a few words that kind of introduces your sermon.

We'll pray over them, so that might take five to 10 minutes. And then we just lead straight into Donovan and his worship and his music there. More recently, because it can be troublesome, trying to get everybody coordinated to move, we'll start the music as they're coming in. - I get it. - Yeah, and I was like-- - How are they doing with like, are they familiar with these songs? Have you seen them over time, get more familiar? - Yeah, yes, some of them. One difficulty we're working through with the space is the screen's ginormous, but the words are on the bottom. So if you're in the back, you can't always read the word, so let's do that. But I mean, yeah, the men, probably with any worship service, some are more deeply filled with the spirit of saying and raise hands and so forth, and others are just there to observe. And one thing I will mention is that these aren't all Christians attending this service. Yeah, we have, as a matter of fact, one of the stories you're asking about, I think we have upwards of 10 Muslims that come there. - Wow. - And one of our volunteers, I don't know what he said, but one of the Muslims came up to me as like, you don't ever have to feel endangered or unsafe here, is like, I can tell you alone that you've got 10 Muslim brothers that have your back, just like, you don't even worry about, you know,

the Christians or anybody else, we got you, something like that. So that was, yeah, and then we have a couple of Jewish fellows that come in there. And then, so we, I mean, basically, so this is a recorded service. I take a box that looks like a phone, almost a little bit like a glorified phone, and it plugs into their sound system and their AV equipment. their AV equipment. Thanks to Victoria and Zach who help us cut these films and they A lot of times we'll maybe cut the last song just because we run I get on time But at the end usually when the word is finished We'll all get up and and really surround the place Our volunteers, so you can imagine 12 of us in blue shirts when we surround and say anybody wants to come and respond and be prayed for Just seek one of us out. We'll be led to the pray over you And sometimes you know the beauty of that is even they come up and say I want to pray for you, and it's just it's beautiful but One thing we found is they're they're men in the back because this is a medical Campus the the buttoner in general there are people that come back and forth from the hospital there So not everybody can come forward, so we send people out and just and it's it's interesting that you know, they're not too many people Maybe once we've had say can I pray for you and they're like no I'm good right now because most everybody Yes, I'm gonna say yeah, please pray And then so yeah, and so by that time we have from 1 30 to 3 30 and maybe that by that time it's getting to be about a quarter of three to three o'clock and When the lights will come back on I'll I'll give them a benediction and then we'll break into groups like community groups and depending You know if we have a hundred people in attendance, maybe 10 we try to get 10 guys to a group and say hey You know, what's in your mind? What do you want to talk about from the service? What do you want to talk about from your life when you talk about on yeah, that's gotta be so rich Yeah, it is it isn't and I'm typically myself. I'm not a

Part of those groups because I find so many men. We just want to come up and get it to me in the real Yeah, let's I want to tell you about this sometimes. It's just like And I've got a problem with the guy I'm in the cell with or I've got a problem Yeah, yeah, I can't move. This is my roommate that I've with for a long time. Wow So we okay, so what's it like a couple other things so Week in and week out so there's the first this is new. Okay, we did it. Okay, we're coming back Okay, we're coming back again like we're here now How did you see the relationships between? The men who are now in prison and our volunteer teams even maybe with yourself How are those relationships deepening and changing as we've been there for months sure sure? I mean, it's There's a certainly excitement and I'm thankful. We've got 45 volunteers right now I'm that they're able to go the rotating about four teams that you know, we rotate over four weeks and and we there's a there's a couple that are able to make it more frequently and you're and so The the deepness and the richness of it is these these guys when we get there They'll ask about somebody that may have come the previous week or hey how such and such doing or I remember talking to them about They're kids and because we have this bond there and so I just want you to take back that I'm praying for them And in the same in likewise, so here's here's a great story one that I thought I wanted to share please We had a volunteer who's up there in their response time praying over somebody and then she's like what kind of pray for you for and The person said I want you to pray for my cellmate Justin who? Who's a Satanist whoa, and yeah, he's not just an atheist He's a Satanist and I just want you know his heart to be opened and so he came back about two weeks later and said You know what Justin here has Agreed to read the Bible with me for half an hour every day and talk about it And you know so that there's our next next step forward and then About a week or two later this this man has been asking for the pray for his cellmate comes up with this cellmate with Justin and and

And and says to the person who our volunteer says do you know who this is and she's like this must be Justin And and just I was like, well, how do you know usually because I've been praying for you come on for like a month now And she was like have you ever had any my pray for you? He was like no never and so I'll leave that story there because I don't it's it's not finished yet But yeah, but yeah, I mean in prison right people are being transformed by the gospel and reaching out to the trying to do We're trying to do here. Let's take the next step. Let's mm-hmm one invite one conversation at a time Wow, that's it and then as I mentioned earlier as these men are moving to different facilities You know My response at first and then nature was kind of like oh man or just getting started here and getting and and then we're like no Or I mean we got together with community group because like no, we're ready to multiply. We're ready to go out and God has us where we need to be somewhere else right now." He's like, "He's put his favor upon buttoner, so where else do we need to go?" What are the guys wrestling with in prison? Like, is there anything, obviously, where they're all more the same than different? So I'm sure a lot of things are going to be things for us, like, "Hey, unforgiveness, or are there anything unique that you'd say, man, as I've been ministering to men in prison over the last several months, this is what surprised me." Yeah, yeah. I think it may be very journalistic, but it's hope. I feel it, even as I think about them right now, I think about what that's like. Hope. And as I was talking with a chaplain, there are a couple, about a month or two ago, and he was like, "Man, he's new. He's new within a few months." And he said that it's like, "You've got to realize that I'm here to do life with these guys and do it because I'm here, God willing, our tire in 30 years, I don't know. These guys will still be here, many of them that I'm dealing with. So how do we bring the hope of the gospel to them?" That's good. And that's what we're... And I've had those discussions with the men, and it's tough either. They don't always want to listen. But I think through, they're seeing it through the worship and the truth that we're bringing that there is a hope beyond the walls that no man can keep down. Do you find that are guys dealing more when they think about their relationships? Are they dealing more with people that they're relating to in prison or people they no longer have relationship with outside of prison? Does that make sense? Because I would imagine a lot of guys,

maybe if they're new or especially, they're thinking about their kids or their spouse or their parents, because I don't know the visiting policies, but they're gonna feel so isolated by me. I never see these people anymore. And it is a mix of both. And honestly, this is a great segue opportunity for these guys. Yeah, I want you to please. I want to take some time and tell us about these. Yeah. So what I've done here, I don't know if it can be seen or not, but we offer the men up prayer cards, and they're able to put their names, their prayer requests, and there's a spot for a response of some sort down here at the bottom. And so, man, we've got a wonderful prayer team here at this church. Unbelievable. I walked in. This was sitting in the prayer room the day. Yeah. And before I want you to get in all this, but I walked in, and I thought, what is this? And I started to look through it. And I come, I mean, when I see the prayed for, there's just something about that, like, handles. Yeah, like this is not, we didn't just ask for a card and then go put it somewhere and say something real quickly. It's like, no, there was a team of men and women who interceded in these areas and then decided to write, organize them, a personal family. That's it. I mean, I'm looking at all those friends, health, I'm just giving the categories addiction. It's like, and then I just, I don't know who's handwriting that is. It just says in all caps, prayed for explanation point. Yeah. Amen. And these are even a fraction of what we'd have down there. And we just continue, they get prayed for in general. And then, I mean, you know, just a wonderful story and thank goodness for Sarah Gillette. She's just fantastic. And shout out. And yeah, and she, and I was down there, my office is pretty much the VHQ downstairs from coming in there. And so, I get to talk to everybody coming in there and Sarah's just like, what are you doing down here? And I'm just like, I'm just looking through these cards and praying over them. And she's like, oh, I want to do that. You know, and she's even dedicated a time on Thursdays to come and pray over these cards. Yeah, I mean, she's pulling inside to say, look, I want you to know what we're doing. We are praying, yeah, hardcore for these prayer requests that the prisoners are bringing to us. Right. And so you ask, like, what are the, you know, what are they battling against in there? And again, praying for their families right here, praying for their health, praying for the relationships inside and slide prison. I mean, prison is hard. And something was said recently, not directly to me, but why one of our volunteers that, and I knew this, but, you know, these guys still have access to stuff that they shouldn't have access to. And it's just the way life is.

And we asked them, like, you know, what? And it's like, if you want something, you can find it. You can figure it out in here. Just for other purposes, I won't go into too much detail about that. But so I mean, the, you know, these men consistently have to physical attacks. Oh, man. And I ask them. And so, you know, they come into our space and a 130 on a Sunday and they're like, this is the only time of the week I get peace. Because if I was out there right now, you know, you stay yourself, you should be okay, but who knows what you're going to get caught up in occasionally. Yeah, you just, I mean, obviously extremely, I mean, this is not the same thing, but you just think about sending your kid to, I don't know, some high school everybody's doing something. You're like, all right, we want you to do the right thing, but you're going to be in an environment all the time where you're going to be tempted, but at least in that environment, it's eight hours you come home. Right. Right. Here. It's like you live, work, play, sleep, eat in an environment where I'm sure there are some very godly men that are trying to live for Christ in the prison, but there's also an enormous amount of temptation. And then you're also around a lot of guys that don't have much hope. Right. And so they're like, I'll do some risky things. I'll, whatever it means, because I'm never getting out of here. And if I, if you don't have a hope beyond this life, then you're just, yeah, you become hedonistic and nihilistic and pessimistic and all that. That's it. That's it. And they're in this, they're in a system that's designed to, because I was listening to one of your last podcasts about manhood and so like that, but to really remove the manhood out of them almost. I mean, it's just like you were too much on the outside. So we got to take that out of you. Yeah. And so you don't get to choose what you eat, right where you live, how you dress, what your job is. I mean, it's just, it's kind of actually a picture of what we talked about this week of Romans 13, where the government uses the sword by taking away the rights

of men, but it's very painful. Yeah. Very, let's, let's talk. Well, they're because I want to end today talking a little bit about what we're doing with Endovo and God behind bars and the different ways that, that we're not just in or out butner or even for scythe, but that God has actually opened up a door, not just our church, but to many churches to be able to get the gospel messages. It's like the same technology that can bring, you know, sinful temptation in people's life can also be used to spread the gospel. Yeah, before we talk about that, is there anything else? I know you've got some things here. I wanted to get, you've been doing a good work in the prison and I just, this is your chance that there's anything else you want to share and say to us. I mean, the story you want to share or anything? Just, I mean, I thank you again for all you guys have done and thank you to our volunteers who are out there who give selflessly. I mean, it's an entire Sunday. It is, dude. They have to, we leave it right after the nine o'clock service if they can make it and then they're not home until six or after that night. And so they give them up. Yeah. Yeah. And they love it. Every, I mean, it's just fantastic. Yeah. They're, I mean, there was a ladder that I wanted to, this came from, and by the way, we get a, you know this, but you're slightly everyone listening. We get a lot of letters from prisoners and from all over. Yeah. I mean, I, I'll get, you know, Leah will bring me one and she'll say, Hey, you got this and I'll look on the envelope and I'm like, Baltimore, Maryland. Yeah. I mean, just different places in the United States. This is, this is, I have five, but just one I'll share here or four of them, but there's one, there's two from California. There you go. Yeah. And one gentleman was saved in prison, but he was a lawyer from here in town. I know. Yeah. Got that letter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, let me, let me just read this out that, so people will know just the love that we, the encouragement we get. Greetings, brothers and sisters, just a few lines to let you all know that we love you and missfellowshipping with you. We appreciate the love and support the God behind bars has given us. Your work that God gave us was not in vain. Your ministry has made a great

impact on the inmates here at FCI too. So be encouraged to continue your work through Jesus Christ who empowers us in spirit. There are lots of things to be said, but right now I want to say thank you. May God bless to city's church and God behind bars ministry. Our prayers are for you and that your ministry continues at FCI too. So come on, man. Yeah. I mean, that's, and that's a short letter, but yeah, I'm seeing some of your others. I mean, I will get, I will get handwritten letter. I know you too. I will get handwritten letters that when I open them up, I'm like, yeah, this is four pages front and back and this, this guy is pouring his heart out. We just got a 32 page letter. No, you did not. Yes, we do. Handwritten. Handwritten. Yeah. Have you read it yet? Yes. Well, the beauty also of chat and GPT. Please take this out for me. Because that's what I did with so. Yeah, but the 32. Wow. No, so you're just showing the impact. I mean, I think that's what gets me, whether it's, you know, the letters, the stories that we hear as volunteers come back and say, we're praying with this guy, and this is what he said. But then let's, let's talk for a second about, and you would know more about this than me, but the end of it. Yeah. I've had Austin need him on here before. We've talked a little bit about it. Right. You also mentioned, and we just want to give a shout out, God bless, God behind bars, and all that they're doing, you said they have a different app. That's right. You talked about those two apps and what we're seeing. Yeah. How we're seeing the gospel before through this. Yeah. And honestly, app just like Pando, that's designed to go into the prison system. And these, these men, different churches from around the country or organizations who are approved can upload content material to these, to these apps. So I think right now I handle Pando, just started it in May. And I think we probably have close to 30 services that are uploaded or in one of the podcast, Mark Whittaker, I think I put on there as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. And so, yeah, I wanted to make sure, so it's just in that period of time in, in Pando, and, and Pando is not even in the federal prison systems yet. So if, not all those, I think those men can get the Adovo app, I believe, but they don't even have Pando yet.

Okay. So in just that time, we've had 50,000 views on Pando of our services. Come on, 50,000 views, 1,777 subscribers. And there's a button on there that you can profess salvation. 33 people have pushed the button for, for prayer and for further follow up with that. So, yeah. Do you remember, I can't remember if I told the story last time you guys were on the podcast, but it's worth telling again. I had this young couple come up to me and this is, this had to be in the last year after a service. And this happens often where a couple or an individual want to come up and I can tell they've not met me and we, and they love our church and they want to say hi. So I'm kind of, they're waiting. And so I, I go up and I talk to him and they introduce themselves. And the lady starts, she's probably in her twenties and she says, and I kind of ask my questions, which is, you know, how'd you hear about us and why did you come back? And she said, the way that I heard about you was, and she started crying, she said, was from my mom is in prison. And she said, my mom was listening. And she knows that I live here in Winston Salem. And she told me to come to this church. I was like, wow, we minister to somebody in the prison. We free up that person to minister to someone they love outside of the prison in this situation. And then we get to minister to that person. I mean, it was just a, it was like a movie scene. I just, I believe it was why I just hunkered. I hunkered her husband. And they were crying and I was crying and, you know, yeah. That's fantastic. I, because just another quick story or, or just something I wanted to mention was that, you know, this ministry doesn't only touch the prisoners in there. We touch the families, like you said, we touch the staff in there. I mean, we go in there each, each week with food and just blessings to them. No, it's a, it's a holistic ministry. You know, John Stott said that we are a soul in a body in a community. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So you are ministering to the soul that was forever. You are caring for the body and you are coming around that community. Yeah. And honestly, man, God bless you and may God bless your family because of this. And I think we're going to see a lot of fruit in the years to come. Yeah. John Piper said that God will show us enough fruit to keep us encouraged and hide enough fruit to keep us humble. Yeah. And I think I felt that in my own life. So, you know, as I am, I just made a 20 story before, but another famous story is Chuck Colson, who's, you know, a father to the whole prison ministry. Yeah. You know, ended up coming to Christ after the Watergate scandal under

the Nixon administration. And he did prison ministry nationwide for years. Well, I remember this is in the early days of Twitter. He died. And I went on Twitter to kind of get that day. And there was a Christian leader who wrote, he said, right now, it was a day Chuck Colson thought he said, Chuck Colson today heard a Galilean voice say, I was in prison and you visited me. And I just, I came to tears reading that. So man, you are leading the way. Thank you, man. You are going to them cause, cause we, they can't come to us. You are building teams. That's incredible. And you're doing the frontline ministry man. And so just, I just partly want to honor you've honored me. You've honored our church. And I know we've got a lot of questions about all that's ahead, but man, I am just excited to be on this journey with you. I appreciate it. Smear is leading the way. Not me. God, Paul, God. I feel the same way. Thanks for the podcast. Thank you. Appreciate you having me. Thanks for tuning in to Open Bible Open Life with Pastor Kyle Mercer. We'll be back every week with new conversations. So make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.