The SECRET to Knowing Jesus Deeper

Can we get more grace, or do we get all the grace we're ever going to get once we're saved? Here's the thing I run into, Art, and I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I want you to speak for your generation. Do people think, I got all the grace I'm ever going to need when I got saved, so everything's over? I think I talk to a lot of people, and they make the pinnacle of their salvation law the day they got saved. And it's like, boom, I jumped up, and then it's kind of just sleep, and then we'll get to eternity. They don't go deeper, and they don't continue to keep growing. There's a secret about grace that most believers don't even know, and I want to cover that in today's podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome. Arden and I are here for the John Bavaric Podcast, the thing I'm still getting used to saying, and I'll probably say that as long as we do this. I don't. Anyway, Arden, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being here with me. Dad, it's an honor. I always love sitting on these conversations, and I love this because these are conversations me and you have, and have had, all of us boys have had with you. For years. Yeah, so it's exciting that people get to sit in on them more. Well, we are going to talk about something today as we continue talking about what we did in the last podcast. Can we get more grace? Oh, you know, man, give me some grace. Give me more grace. Is it a true statement? Can a believer get more grace, or do we get all the grace we're ever going to get once we're saved? I mean, this is a valid question. And the other thing I want to talk about is there's a secret about grace that most believers don't even know, and I want to cover that in today's podcast, all right? And we're doing this by journeying through a book that I really believe deals with today, and that's 2 Peter, and the New Testament. In the last podcast, I read verse one. We never got off it. Let's read it again. This is a letter from Simon Peter, a slave, that means a bond slave, and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior. Now, we go to verse two. May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord. Okay, stop right there. More and more. Yeah. It's a Greek word,

plethuno, and I'm probably not saying it right, probably butchering it, all right? And hope Rick Renner doesn't call me tomorrow. Plethuno, and this is how it is defined, to increase greatly. Not just increase, increase greatly in number or extent. It means to grow or multiply. So now, let's read this again. May God give you more and more grace. So in other words, increase greatly your grace. So the question we got to ask is, how do we get more grace if God gives more grace? Because doesn't James say, here's another one, James 4, 6, but he gives more grace. So here's the thing I run into, Art. Now, I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I want you to speak for your generation. Do people think, I got all the grace I ever going to need when I got saved, so everything's over? I think I talk to a lot of people and they make the pinnacle of their salvation walk the day they got saved. And it's like, boom, I jumped up and then it's kind of just sleep, you know, slide, slide, slide, slide, slide. Okay, then we'll get to eternity. Okay. Okay. And that's just the feeling I've got. They don't go deeper and they don't continue to keep growing. I mean, what you said is what James talking about is grace be multiplied to you or no, sorry, not grace be multiplied, but he gives grace to the humble. So there's ways like he says that God gives grace to the humble. Yeah, there's ways that we can get more grace. And to me, that's really exciting because the cry for our generation and the people of the world is to know their creator. Okay. What is grace? Let's just start right there. All right. We know it's a gift. We know it's favor. Okay. These are definitions in lexicons. If you go read about grace, it's a gift, it's favor, it's a generosity, it's benevolence, it's undeserved favor. All right. Now, if it's undeserved favor, we can position ourself to get more. Yes. Yeah. And you just said a key word, humility. But Peter brings up another key word. He says, may God give you more and more grace. How do we get more and more grace, Peter, in your knowledge of God? Now, the word knowledge there is amazing. It's the Greek word. Epigenesis. Epigenesis, and I think I am saying that one correctly. I'm gonna read straight from... I wanna read straight from the Lexicon Dictionary. Studies indicate that sometimes the term for the knowledge that Peter uses here can mean come to know. All right, so let's stop there. Great... May give you more and more grace as you come to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Okay, let me keep reading this. And thus is appropriate for knowledge that leads to or is gained in conversation. If this distinction holds, which they say the studies show, Peter is identifying a knowledge gained in conversation rather than that which one may

develop on their own. Okay, example, because this is really... That's very academic. Okay, let me just give you an example. I just recently met a man and I met him out on the street while I was walking in my neighborhood. I know this man's name. I know where he lives. I could go online and research this guy. That is not a knowledge that I gained through conversation. However, we went to dinner with him because we met. Lisa came out. His wife came out. We went to dinner and we had a four-hour dinner with them the other night. I know him a lot better. So, I can watch somebody on TV and I can know him, but I'm not gonna know him like I know my wife who I've been married to for 42 years. What this knowledge is, is a knowledge that is gained by spending time in conversation with someone. So, in other words, Peter says the more time in conversation we spend with Jesus, the more grace that is added to our life. I mean, what I'm automatically kind of asking myself and seeing is that you're talking about, I feel like it's an immature understanding. You have an immature knowledge of someone, which is the first knowledge. And then you have a matured knowledge, which takes time. It takes development. It takes effort. And I think about that in terms of what I said earlier, people making the pinnacle of their salvation the day they got saved. I think about that in the same way of what you're saying with mom. It's a marriage. If we made your relationship with your spouse all based on the infatuation that you have early on of that person, it's an immature love. It's an immature depth of that relationship. It's not something that's gonna last. And I think that's why you see a lot of marriages not last, because what did they stop doing? They stopped pursuing each other. And that takes effort and maturity to actually happen. And I think we look at that in terms of a context of a marriage. It so beautifully frames that out for me. Okay, let's just talk about this, all right? We're creating the image of God. So, there's a lot of things that we think are unique to humans that really isn't unique to humans. It's actually because we're creating the image of God. For example, I can know you or I can really know you, right? How do I really know you? I have to pursue knowing you and spend time in conversation. I can know you by saying, I know the facts about you. So, when they say that this is knowledge that's gained in conversation rather than developing on one's own, it's not just reading a book called the Bible. It's not just taking a course or listening to a podcast about Jesus. It's actually spending time with Jesus. Hey everybody, spiritual growth doesn't happen by accident. That's why we here at Messenger International are passionate about equipping you

with resources to help you grow in your relationship with God. One tool we hope you'll take advantage of is our free Messenger X app. Inside Messenger X, you'll get access to dozens of full-length courses, sermons, audiobooks, and more. All available to you at no cost. Whatever your goals, whether you're looking to discover your calling, develop deeper intimacy with God, find freedom, or improve your relationships, you'll find resources on Messenger X that will help you get there. Download Messenger X today, create your free account, and dive in. Now, back to the podcast. read the Bible as a book. I read the Bible for years and thought it was just a bunch of history lessons and a bunch of rules and regulations. Now when I read in the Bible, I engage. I said this in the last podcast, I don't sit down and read the Bible until I welcome the Holy Spirit into that conversation. So now I actually have conversation inside in my heart with the Holy Spirit as I'm reading the scripture. I actually do that and I love it and that's what makes the Bible so exciting to me. Now what happens is, like this just happened, I can think of specifically, I was reading the book of Genesis just the other day, like I'm talking within the last five days, and I said something in my heart and He immediately began to speak back to me in my heart. And so it was a back and forth while I'm reading the Bible. I mean I'm doing my daily reading okay? What am I doing? I'm knowing the God of the Bible. Yes, the Word of God is living, but it's living when the Spirit brings it alive. Paul made a statement, he said, the letter kills. The letter is just when I'm reading words on a page, but the Spirit gives life. When I'm reading the words on the page and I'm engaged with the Holy Spirit, now I'm growing in the knowledge of Him. Because the Holy Spirit's main goal is to reveal Jesus. Jesus said He will not speak of the things of His own, He will speak of me. He said, guys, there's so much more I want to say to you, but you can't handle it. But when the Spirit of truth comes, He'll reveal these things. Okay, I'm going to give you an example. A lot of people, and I'm going to get really, really, really, I mean, some people may just go, what? But I'm going to say this. Do you remember when Thomas, he said, I won't believe unless I put my hands in his fingers, or my fingers in his holes in his hands, and my hand in his side. So Jesus appears, Jesus said, okay, Thomas, do it. Puts his hand, he's been resurrected, puts his hand in the side where the sword went in, puts his fingers hole. Thomas doesn't even do it, he falls down and goes, my Lord and my God. Okay, Jesus makes a statement. He said, Thomas, you believe because you've seen me.

How much more blessed are those who have not seen yet believe? Well, and I love Thomas, just being honest, because I think we always, and I'm glad you didn't do this, we always attach it to doubting Thomas. Yeah. But Thomas's story is from that experience. He goes and impacts the entire nation of India. Oh yeah, he does. And then he dies as a martyr. And so he has that moment of, maybe it could be weakness of like, no, I need to feel for myself. Okay, but I'm going a different direction. Okay, I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. I love that. You needed to say that, but I'm going to, but I want you to think about this. Yeah. Jesus goes, you believe because you saw me. How much more blessed are those who have not seen me and yet believe, right? I used to think that's so, it seemed kind of harsh to me. Yeah. I'm like, the guy's groveling on the floor, my Lord and my God. Oh my gosh. And then Jesus makes a statement. I'm thinking, and one day I was in prayer and Lord said, that was a statement of fact. Yeah. And he said, I wasn't rebuking Thomas. I was making a statement of fact. And I was like, what? Well, Paul made a statement. He said, henceforth, we don't know any man after the flesh. We know them by the spirit. He said, we don't even know Jesus after the flesh. In other words, we know him by the spirit of God. Yeah. There's more things I wanna show you, but you can't handle it until the Holy Spirit comes. Okay, so let's stop and think about this. Thomas, John, Peter, all had the ability to revert back to when they walked with Jesus on the shores of Galilee. Yeah. They physically walked with him, Martin. Mm-hmm. Have you ever heard any of your friends, I'm curious, have they ever said to you, oh man, I wish I could have walked the shores of Galilee with Jesus? Oh yeah, I think so. But Jesus actually said, your friends are more blessed than the people that did walk the shores. Yeah. Let me tell you why. Peter, can you imagine the tension? I mean, we're reading his book right now and we're getting so much out of it, right? Can you imagine the tension? He's flipping back and forth from, I remember Jesus physically, right? And he's reverting back. Paul never walked with Jesus. Paul never walked with Jesus physically like Peter did. So this is amazing. Okay. Paul knows Jesus so deeply that Peter, at the end of this book we're reading right now, doesn't know Jesus physically but exactly where they left off on the fourth verse, as the wisdom or what God has shown Paul, it is so profound that it's even hard for me to understand. So in other words, what Peter is saying

is Paul's gone to a depth with Jesus how they came to believe that Jesus was actually there, was walking the shores of Galilee. that even I'm having trouble with understanding. Could it be because exactly what Jesus said, And the word of pint said Jesus told them that Jesus was still walking Paul didn't rely on that physical aspect that he had, that actually God has blessed us by not revealing himself to our physical senses, but he's revealing himself to our spirit. Now I know this is really deep. No, this is fantastic. But we got to talk about this, okay? Let me get a little bit more clear on this. I think there's three levels of relationships we can have. All right, first and lowest would be physical. That's usually the way a guy gets married to a girl, right? He's like, oh my gosh, she's gorgeous, right? I mean, when you saw a Christian the first time, I remember your first day, what'd you say? Drop dead gorgeous. She's drop dead gorgeous, right? Okay, that is how I was drawn to Lisa. I prayed, I actually prayed a prayer when she walked in to our dorm room cafeteria. I said, God, please let my wife be that gorgeous. And have legs like that, right? Had legs like that, that's exactly what I prayed. And so that's the lowest form. But then the next level of relationship is our soul, a soulless relationship.

The soul of Jonathan was knit to David. Remember what David actually said? Yeah. Jonathan, your love was better for me than even a woman's. Okay, they were not homosexual. They, what David was saying was, I actually got to an area in my soul, my emotions, my mind, that I got closer to you than any of my wives is what David was saying, okay? I'll never, ever, ever forget this, all right? I'm preaching in a city, this is years ago, like 10 years ago. And I decided to go back to the resource table. And there was a guy, he had two little babies in his arm and he had four kids. So he and his wife had six kids and they were all under nine years old. I were 10 years old. And the guy had a very dejected look on his face. I mean, real heavy look. And I could see it. And I went over and I said, is everything okay for you? And he said, no, it's really not. And I said, what's wrong? He said, my wife left me today for a man that she met on the internet. I went, I'm so sorry. Now, wait, wait a minute. Do you know how unnatural it is for a mother to leave her six children?

Yeah. I can imagine. I said, did she ever meet him in person? He said, no, not until she left me. So their souls got so connected that she left her husband and her six children for a man she got connected with in the soul room. So obviously he and his wife weren't growing in their soulless relationship. Okay. The highest level is spirit. So this is the way we know God in our spirits, not in our heads, in our spirits. So all the time I'm reading the Bible all those years Arden, you know what's happening? My head is gaining things, but my spirit is also communicating. The Holy Spirit is communicating and bringing that Bible alive. And I'm getting to know Jesus. And according to what Jesus said, I can know him better because my physical is not getting in the way. Does that make sense? Oh, it makes total sense. I mean, I'm having a hard time like really grasping that because yes, you're right for so long. I've always thought about this. And I've said it is like, if I could have dinner with someone, it'd be amazing to have dinner with Jesus.

But you're saying it's better. My relationship with the Holy Spirit is deeper. Like that to me is wild. Listen to Paul's words. Henceforth, we don't know anyone after the flesh, we know them by the spirit. Even Jesus, we don't know after the flesh, we know him by the spirit. So the more we get to know him, the more the grace of God abounds in our life. Now, this is where we started the whole podcast. This is how we get to know him better is by spending time with him and listening. So that means a lot of our prayer time, we're gonna be listening, not just talking. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. So we can get more grace. Can I ask you, because I think this is something that people probably know, and I know we need to get through some more things within this, but I know people are probably asking because you're saying we're going to spend more time listening. I think people have a hard time knowing the voice of God, and I know that comes from more and more time that you spend with him, but what would you say to people that are having a hard time and a challenge to hearing the voice of God? I would say that it's okay, first of all. You're not failing. That's the first thing. If you look at Samuel, he was the most powerful prophet in Israel. Not one of his words fell to the ground. That's how much God trusted this man.

He anoints David, too. Yeah, he's the one that anoints David, but if you look at it, he had to learn how to hear God's voice for himself, and I find that God speaks to each of us differently. I find that Moses... God made the statement to Moses, or Miriam and Aaron, actually. He said, if there's a prophet among you, I speak to them this way. Not so with Moses. All of us have to learn how God speaks to us. That's what makes it a personal relationship with Jesus, right? So Samuel, God comes to his room and says, Samuel, and Samuel sounds like the voice of his pastor, Eli. Yeah, Eli. He runs to Eli in the middle of the night and said, you called? Here I am. Eli goes, he's sound asleep, he goes, you just woke me up. I did not call you. Go back to bed. So he goes back to bed. God comes again and goes, Samuel, Samuel goes running to Eli again. Eli goes, what are you doing? I didn't call you. Go back to bed. So he goes back to bed. God comes again and goes, Samuel, he goes running to Eli. Now Eli goes, oh my gosh, God's talking to this boy. So he said, when you go back, say your servant hears. Speak, Lord, for your servant hears. Fourth time, God goes, Samuel, speak, Lord, for your servant hears. And God gives him this whole message. Now here's what people would rather have happen.

They would rather God say on the second time, when God sees Samuel's not getting it's him and he starts running to Eli, no, no, stop, Samuel, this is the Lord your God. This is me talking to you. Why doesn't God do that? Because God wants us to learn how he speaks to each of us. Now I'm married to Lisa, 42 years. She's the closest human being to me on the planet. God talks to her totally different than he talks to me. I've learned that God talks to you different than he talks to me. I know that when I open up the Bible, I get ready to hear the voice of God and all of us as believers should do that. I remember one great man of God said, and I wish I could remember because we obviously get off on tangents on these podcasts and we talk about these things. But he said, I have so many people coming up and saying to me, I wish God would talk to me. And he says, he does every time you read the Bible. And there's truth to that. If you will allow the Holy Spirit, if you will bring him and say, okay, bring this alive. If he's going to make Jesus so real to us, then he'll be even more intimate and closer than those guys that walked on the seashore with them or the multitudes that actually heard him physically. We can get closer. God's given us that potential. And when we do it, we get more grace. Yeah. Yeah. And you grow in that relationship. Yes. Because I know my wife, I know with mom, you know, I of course know mom very well, but I know mom, she can give you a look and, and, you know, tons of things she just said

there in that moment. Whereas earlier on, and probably I know in my marriage, when my wife gave me a look, it was like, what are you saying? Like what? And now it's, she gives me that same look and I know, okay, I know exactly what you're saying. And it's because I've grown in my relationship with her. And I think that's the same thing, what you're saying. So we grow. Yes. God speaks every time you open up your Bible, but as you grow, you're going to start understanding his voice and the way that he is specifically speaking. Okay. So now we zeroed in on grace. Yes. There's another word. Peter said, may God give you more and more grace and peace. Oh, wait a minute. May God give you more and more peace as you grow in your knowledge. Okay. What are people dealing with right now in America? A lack of peace. Why? Because they're anxious. They're worried about what's coming on the earth. They're troubled. I mean, well, and can I say that too is, I mean, I think the huge contributing factor to that is social media and your phone. I mean, your day and age, you only had to worry about the anxiety and the things that were going on maybe in your family and your friends at school, like navigating that.

Now you open up your phone and it's like, you're having to feel anxiety or feelings of stress about someone that is all the way on the other side of the world. the world that is homeless, that you saw a video of them being homeless and navigating this situation. And so you are constantly living in this state of being hit by all this anxieties, feelings, emotions, every time you pick up your phone that you were not supposed to be feeling. And it's, according to a poll, 164 million people in America, their number one thing they're dealing with is anxiety. So anxiety is the absence of peace. So not only does God give more and more, okay, what does that word more mean? It's that Greek word that means to increase greatly. Not only can our grace increase greatly, but also our peace can increase greatly. Now, I'm amazed we only got through verse two. Now, we're gonna continue this study because I believe God's giving us words for right now. We're gonna continue in walking through 2 Peter because I believe God's giving us words for right now. And I'm gonna give a little teaser on the next one. Verse three and four are probably two of the most eye-opening, exciting two verses of scripture in the whole New Testament. And that's what we're gonna talk about in the next John Bevere podcast. And who knows how long it's gonna take for us to get through those two.

So let me just say this to you. There is more grace available. There is more peace available. How? By growing in the knowledge. You think I don't have time to get in the Bible. I got news for you. You don't have time not to get in the Bible. Because first of all, the wisdom of God that you get by spending time with him will cause your days to become more productive. You right now may be spinning wheels, might be doing things because why? You're not getting that inner peace and that wisdom and that grace to enable you to be more productive in your day. And this is exactly what we're gonna find out. Peter is gonna show us how to become more productive, how to become more effective. Peter is going to show us how to go beyond our natural ability. And this is what we're going to talk about in the next podcast. There is an aspect of grace that most Christians, I'm not saying this just pulling a number out of the air, but in a survey done with over 5,000 Christians, over 98% of the Christians in America don't know this aspect of grace. And it is one of the most exciting aspects. And we're gonna talk about it because Peter talks about it

in the next podcast. So until next time, this has been the John Bevere podcast with Arden Bevere and John Bevere.