Old Man/New Man Podcast - Andy McAfee with Stephen Canup

created in righteousness and true holiness, the old man, new man podcast with host Stephen Kenner. Hey, welcome back. Thanks for tuning in to the old man, new man podcast. That's a picture of my old man, Andy, you probably have some old pictures too of your old man, but now we are new men in Christ. And the Bible says, if any man be in Christ, he's a new creation, old things have passed away, praise God, that's passed away, behold all things have become new. And today, thanks for tuning in and let me just remind you, if you haven't subscribed to us yet on Pando to click that subscribe button and share it with your family. And on there, you'll see my books that are in Pando books. This is the first book that God allowed me to write, most of which was written while I was still in prison. And I've got eight books on Pando books and in Edovo, four of which are also in Español. So yeah, check that out and look at the content because we've been putting videos one a week for two years, got some great music videos on there. We got some great testimonies, some other podcasts, we've got teaching and preaching. And check that out and spread the word help us help us to get more hope and encouragement to the men and women in prison across the and jails across the country. So Andy, thanks for coming in today. I just want to have a conversation with you and give you a chance to let's talk about your testimony. Now I've been kind of starting out lately asking people there was a, at some point, there's a time you could point to, I can point to about February of 2009 where I really surrendered to God and I really feel like I was born again. And so my first question is how many years ago did that happen for you where you really feel like that was my defining moment? That was my surrender moment. It was September of 2000. Okay.

No, sorry. September of 1999, so 27 years ago. So here's what I'd like you to do. Back up from there. Now when you, when you, I want to hear about how did that happen? What was going on at the time in your life and, you know, what was different this time because a bunch of us have said a little prayers of salvation, you know, getting, trying to get out of trouble and everything else, but, you know, we didn't get saved. But there is a time where you are born again. You are born from above. And so, but I know there was a lot of things leading up to that. And I'm sure it'd be, we'd like to know, you know, what was your life like and you've been to prison. I've been to prison. So, you know, bring that up in there and of course we've all, a lot of us have struggled with addictions. I know that's part of your story. So just, you know, take some time and, and give us your story. Okay. So I guess I grew up in a middle town, middle class family in North Central Texas. Growing up we grew up out in the country. We're so like Talladega nights, if you've ever seen that. Talladega nights, yeah. So my dad had worked away from home. He'd come home usually one or two nights a month. So my mom did most of the raising for us three boys and we were, we were honoring. So yeah, she's working trying to provide for us and we were bless her heart, pretty independent, pretty strong will. I mean, we, we were, we were handful, but when I turned 16, I got my first car. And I started, I'd always kind of try to be the class clown, get attention, get some

approval. I was the middle child, middle child, black sheep. So I was always kind of action out, getting a little bit of attention, trying to get recognized, get that pad on the back that kind of get my cup filled that way. And when I got to be 16, I mean, we, we started driving, we were 10 years old out there in the country. Oh, yeah. So my age 11, I'm, I'm racing the dirt roads and I was got pretty skilled at it. So by the time I was 16, when I got my first car, I was, I'd drive real fast and just drive around town, race people. And I got a lot of recognition. People say riding with me was more fun than six flags. Six flags, I'll protect. Yes, sir. So I got a lot of recognition and a lot of attention that way. And then I started partying within a year. After that point, I've been pretty clean. I'm gonna go down a road I'm gonna go down at 110 miles an hour so uh within a year I was shooting dope uh well uh first time I did uh cocaine IV drug use uh I did for three days straight sold everything I had and I was hooked oh my goodness everything else I did was recreational um I was always in control but that that was something that just kind of took control of my life and was it cocaine yes sir so uh and I would binge pretty heavily on it uh and I mean I had a few run-ins with the law nothing serious few misdemeanors here and there uh but uh it kind of scared me a little bit so uh I got clean for a while uh and from 2016 to 2023 for about six years I was uh on and off drug use uh just while living uh I don't know how much from the time you were 16 from age 16 to age 23 yeah and that's when I finally went to prison

but um oh okay uh and I would get sober for six months a year but it just never would really last uh I would always be kind of drawn back to towards that uh I get clean try to go back to school and uh dropped out of college three times it just wouldn't for me I just I went to school to play sports uh I was good at it and even after sitting out for four years from high school going back in I could walk on and make the basketball team and wow I was very gifted I just didn't have the discipline yeah never really got those skills and tools grown up um uh I think part of it was things were handed to me a little bit uh I didn't have to work real hard and uh I mean we all have ways of learning how to kind of work the system yeah so um so it was on and off like I said I was trying to do the right thing and then I'd relapse I tried to do the right thing and relapse and uh I don't know how much detail you want me to go into as far as I just want you to tell you tell your story about the so the men and women in jails and prisons across the country just to give them hope and encouragement and and they you know what I know already a lot of you can relate to some of what he's already said so just uh just for their benefit really okay so uh I'll go into a little bit of detail about how I guess depraved it got um we spent a lot of time at strip bars had a lot of women living with us partying with us and uh that that was a big part of the lifestyle we throw big drug parties and uh uh it got to the point where uh my habit we had a friend that was uh into meth real heavily so uh he got down to like 105 pounds and my drug choice was cocaine but we would do a lot of LSD uh just a lot of hard drugs and we did a large quantities of them um but my habit got up to where I was just binging and uh uh I would burn bridges with family

uh wouldn't show up except for around the holidays and just long enough to start a fight because they didn't approve my lifestyle and I wasn't really very considered them I mean I wasn't appreciative of what I had no I was living for myself I was living for that um what I felt like was the meaning to life what I felt like was filling my cup and uh I mean notice that I didn't get tired of getting high I got tired of the come downs oh really that's what kind of broke me down his running out and the come downs the crashes and um I got really close to uh turning violent but I never did by the grace of God but uh I would do large quantities uh just people they really didn't want me around even the drug dealers didn't really want me around because uh I would do such large shots that I'd be on the floor hyperventilating convulsing uh I'd be able to see a tunnel of light at the about the size of a quarter I almost black out and it freaked them out so bad they they didn't want me around so I was I was so how did you end up going to prison at you said age 23 you went to prison yeah so uh this was on and off I try to get clean I make it first sometimes six months eight months and then something would happen I'd get an injury or something I'd get depressed and uh just if I can't do this I'm gonna do this and I was just my brother always referred to me as an inverted pendulum I'd always swing all the way right or all the way left But I didn't have that. So long, so short, I had relapsed again. I went back up to, let's see, I was 21, and we were coming back from a party. And I'd been sober for several months, but I was really deeply depressed, suicidal. I lived in that state for a number of years. And I'd get that way, occasionally a couple times I'd get to the point where I was suicidal, and usually I'd involve running from the police and doing stuff like that.

And I was going on the highway, and I was speeding a little bit, and this car started chasing us, flashing their lights at us. And so I sped up, and just running from them, and this other vehicle pulled out in front of us. And this was in 1999, January of 1999. And the car pulled out in front of us with no headlights, and we were speeding. So we left the roadway, hit a culvert, we're doing well over 100 miles an hour. Oh my gosh. And the DPS says the car flipped between seven and nine times. The car you were in? Yes. Oh my gosh. It shattered my knee, broke ten ribs, and the girl riding with me, passed away. Oh no. So it was a very, the car was on fire around us and everything. It was a pretty traumatic, God putting the brakes on my life. Oh my goodness. I was in full traction for 14 months on my leg. So God really put the brakes pretty hard on my life, and I didn't have the skills to deal with that emotion. Well, plus you're beating yourself up for her passing, I do, I'm sure. Yeah. And I mean, I just had no idea how to deal with that kind of remorse or grief. Yeah. So, I would use the pain pills to try to regulate, try to numb, try to escape, because that's all I knew to do was run from my problems. I didn't know how to face them and get through them. So after 14 months, the depression was still going on and off, and I was trying to do the right thing, but I just, I just didn't have the skills. I didn't have the skills I learned in prison eventually, but anger management, stress management, dealing with depression and dealing with- Just didn't know how to deal with any of that. Yeah.

I didn't, never, never really been there before. Right. I mean, growing up, if I were stressed, I drank more beer, drove faster. Yeah. I'd tell you guys in prison all the time. I said, "That didn't take me long to learn. That didn't work for me." No. You can't run from it. You have to eventually find the tools to get through it. Yes, thank you. But by the grace of God, he gave me a place. I got sent to my room. That's how people say. In prison? In prison. But before I got there, so I was pretty depressed. I was again suicidal at the end of this 14 months, and I just, I was tired of living. And so had they already charged you with- They had charged me? What, behavior management or something? Yeah, negligent manslaughter. And I had a DWI in that period. I had some other charges that were less serious, but they were just, I wasn't straightening up. I think they were giving me every chance. Too straightening up. Too straightening up. But I just, I didn't have the tools to do so. Absolutely. And coming back one night, I remember I'd come home.

I was really depressed. And I mean, I just didn't know how to deal with anything. And I'd open my Bible, and the words were so blurry. I couldn't even read the words. And I remember I felt this compulsion to, I guess, pray. Yeah. And it's kind of weird because I didn't really believe and got it for a long time. I was actually into Satan worshiping drugs and all that. Really? You weren't really raised going to church. I was. I was raised in the church. You were. But I just saw a lot of hypocrisy. And so when I was 16, I went out from home. Turned you off. Yeah. And I was into drugs and everything else. And I remember, I mean, I blazed my soul to Satan and everything else. You pledged your soul to Satan. I did that in the back of a closet one night. Just don't talk about that too much. Tell us a little bit about that because some of you may have been thinking of that or doing that. And that's just, that's not. So I would, I would spend hours and hours doing, we did large amounts of LSD and everything, staring at posters of demons and stuff. And years later, when I was in prison, I was like, if I was staring at someone said, if you're staring at a picture of Jesus for eight hours, well, who'd you be worshiping? And it kind of dawned on me.

But yeah, I was in the back of a closet one night and just Plagued my soul. Yeah as long as they would let me live this life and Wow, I realized He didn't have the power. He didn't have the authority Mm-hmm. God has the ultimate authority and the few times I did attempt to take my life attempted that with a drug overdose and And God just overruled that praise God and he just showed me that you don't have This authority unless I give it to you. Mm-hmm So I kind of got distracted, but that was backtracking a little bit, but yeah So anyway, this not I felt this compulsion to actually pray to God actually pray to God and So I actually got down on my knees and I said all right God if you'll just do whatever it takes to get me off the dope and To get you off the door and I felt this thought in my head Pray to Jesus. I said God Jesus Holy Spirit. I'll care who it is one of y'all help me and That was it. It wasn't a proper prayer. It was a didn't see any angels didn't see any lights I just I felt a little bit of peace a little bit of calm. Yeah, I got a surrendered I yeah, it was it came to the end of yourself. It was a moment of surrender. Yeah up to that point I've been trying to get clean. I've been trying to do things better and I said God. I need your help yes, thank you and I asked specifically for Jesus. Yeah, and Got up went to bed most time as most people know you can't go to bed after you're wired You can't no takes hours to unwind a little bit, but I just went straight to bed and Two weeks later. There's another small charge Class D felony and that was it. No, I wound up in County jail and it was it was a relief Because I could not stop So so you prayed remember tell us what you prayed to God whatever it takes I said yeah, I said God in Jesus Holy Spirit one of y'all just whoever it is Would one of y'all help me do whatever it takes to get off the dope Okay, and that's what I literally mean whatever it takes whatever it takes in two weeks later. You're in jail. Yeah, and I Sit in County jail for almost which our own decisions put us in jail our own actions. However, I fully believe that God uses

When we come to that point of surrender God says okay, well, I can work with it and even what looks bad to you I could still make something good out of it. Yes, sir, and and there wasn't much change I mean the county I was still already doing Do whatever I could to numb the pain run from it and there's almost 20 months in County Sign up Lee bargain a lot of things love to sour taste in my mouth with the justice system, but yeah But ultimately you have to trust that God's working it for good. That's wrong So I wound up going to prison signed for 10 years non-ag instead of the 45-ag that they were threatening Wow That was a blessing there. Yeah, and And then during the trial the girl's parents actually got on the stand and said they'd done this process of two years Well, I was out on bond said they'd come to know Jesus is there Lord and Savior and that they forgave me And then they turned around asked the judge for leniency. Wow, how'd that make you feel at the mall? I did you I lost it. I'm mad. I thought I was tough, but I imagine And I told my apologies. I'm gonna try to use this time and When I got to prison I Got into some classes prison classes and that's where the transformation really started really taking place a new left behavior promise keepers I'd go to work all day and then I'd go to the chapel six till ten Start reading the Bible for myself and county. I Didn't really understand it. I had a study Bible So I'd read the commentary and I mean I was highlighting trying to try the best it helps Expound upon the word. Yeah, and when I got to the first unit great serves as great people volunteers coming in and helping us out and Remember my first sermon I ever remember hearing about Jesus. I mean I grew up in the church in 18 years of going to church. I never remember a sermon on Jesus. Well, there's Rules regulations, you know, that's a pitiful I don't even want to know the church that is a pitiful condemnation of our our current church is really and Praise God some are much better than others Got to be careful where you go to church. Yeah, and I remember Sitting there and while I was still in county and I said look I remember saying that a lot I renounced everything I've been taught and I started looking I started studying different religions

I started looking for truth looking for something To give me the truth at this one was try harder. If you do enough, you'll get an enlightenment. If you do enough rules, this or that, until I started reading the Bible. And whenever I read the Bible, I found that most of what I was taught growing up in the church wasn't even in the Bible. The Bible, what I was seeing in the Bible is there is grace, there is help available. And I was already at the point where I'd been sober so many times and relapsed. I knew I needed help. I couldn't do it alone. Yeah. I tried my hardest and I fall on my face three times and I just couldn't. I couldn't change my heart and my heart, I love the dope more than life itself. Yeah. That was my goal is, like I said, to check out OD and then I didn't get tired of getting high. I got tired of the come downs, the consequences and that's what eventually led me to look for change. And I didn't like it at first, I resented it, I resented that I was still here. I was having to practice discipline and go through this and there's days that I really resented it. It was almost like God, God was patient with me, but I was kicking and screaming the whole way. And that's just being real. Yeah. And I mean, I didn't deserve it. It wasn't anything I did to deserve. He was. No.

Jesus for help and he, he was faithful and he's still faithful to me to stay. But so I started going to classes and I started learning tools that I never like, new life behavior was very good for me. It was small groups. We'd have a little Bible study and then we'd talk about it in the groups and different men sharing their stories. Oh, yeah. And that was just transformational. Yeah. I did that. It was a six month course, but I did it for like two years, then I kept doing it through correspondence. And now I'm getting to teach it out at the prison here locally. Okay. So now you're teaching the same class. We just finished it. At the prison here in Lubbock. Yeah. JT Monfer. Yes, sir. JT Monfer. Yeah, I'm John T. Monfer. But it was like giving me new tools when you're angry to name it and bring it out into the open and don't just numb it and run from it. But if you can find those tools and I'm teaching, I'm getting to teach my kids this now. Just name it to tame it. If you name it to tame it instead of name it and claim it, which we do not agree with that. But if name it to tame it, talk about that in a second.

So like a God's putting me through another round of this now in my life, as you know, but it's like just at first recognizing what you're feeling. Is it anger? Is it sadness? Is it hopelessness? And then finding scripture. Examine yourself. And bring it out and turn it into prayer. Put language to what you're feeling because if you can't put language to it, you're just going to run from it. You're going to numb it. You don't want to deal with it. You don't know what you're feeling. You can't really put language to it. And like I'm teaching my kids now, like I have a real big trigger even to this day about running late. Oh, yeah. So like I used to run late and I'd get really angry, frustrated, and sometimes that's it. And now I'm God's put me in a time out to a certain degree where I'm having to, I'll sit there and it will be late for school or something or for my kids' karate practice and I'll actually sit down or I'll pull over on this on the road. First few times he gives me a wider look like dad, I know you don't like to be late. What's going on? And I'm like, I'm just thinking, I was like, what am I feeling? And I'm like, I feel anxiety and I'm like, there's a tightness in my chest. And I'm like, what am I frustrated or anxious over? Yeah, why am I feeling this way? And I'm like, I don't feel like I'm a good dad if I don't get you class on time. I don't feel like I'm doing good enough.

And I'll sit there and I'll sit there and these are some tools I've just recently learned in the last year or a couple of years, actually, and I'll sit there and I'll ask myself, do I know 100%? This is true. And I'll say, no, I'm a good dad. I do. I do a lot of my things. You are. Come on. This is the peace settles over me and I'll say, you know what? That's not true. That feeling is not true. And I said, you ready to go to the class? Yeah. So we take off. We go to class. And what's weird is like every time I have been three, two to three minutes early. Even even being 10 minutes late to start with, I don't understand that, but that's awesome. That's just God redeeming the time. But that's what I'm at now. And like I said, for the long time, for the first year, I was still honors all get out. I was broken. So broken, still doing stolen food from the kitchen, still calling people out for taking down my nude pictures in the shower. And yet we're calling ourselves Christians. Yeah. And I mean, that's where I was. Very broken background. Yeah, and I mean I didn't I mean I read the Bible like four times from Acts through revelations Before I ever read a gospel. I was like I didn't care about Jesus. I was like all I care about is I need to change I need to change I gotta do some better works and and

Eventually trying so hard. I came to the end of myself and said I can't do this. Yeah And that was a very humbling place because I was like and then I started asking I remember to start praying I said what is all this talk about Jesus. I don't understand That's like I'm trying real hard and I was like after about a year and a half. I was reading the Bible consistently and Doing Bible studies and all this I was like God. I don't even know if I'm saved. I was like, how do you how do you know if you're saved and I read Galatians 5 where it says the fruit of the spirit is love, gentleness, kindness, meekness, tenderness, self-control And I was like God I need something better than that. I can fake that. I faked that for a season I could fake that for a season. I was like I need to know that I know and I remember I was reading first John. There's like over a dozen. This is how you know statements This is how you know this is how you know and there's one that just said you cannot do this without the Holy Spirit Mm-hmm and the Holy Spirit is the seal guaranteeing your inheritance That's how you know that you know cuz I was taught The song about the book first John. Yes, sir back near Rodal issue Yeah, that is a great book because I love the gospel John and first John Somebody asked me where do I start reading the Bible? I tell him read the gospel John three times and read first John three times and then go read Luke and Acts and then the rest of the New Testament Don't go to the Old Testament right away You need to understand This new covenant and then you figure out. Well, why did we even need a new covenant? Then you read the Old Testament by oh my goodness. This is why we needed that Jesus Hopefully this will help some of the audience show you where I was at is like I'd actually press I got what you want me to read and I just flipped my bottle open Yeah, and the first book I ever read was Ecclesiastes really Solomon's and it was just talking about how he wrote that late in life he was he was David King David son the wisest man who ever lived in the wealthiest but he was writing about how meaningless life was it's all meaningless nothing matters and Talked about how he had all this wealth all this money and hits all these huge parties and at the end of it

He would say I'm bored. He had a he had over a thousand women that I didn't have anywhere near that camp and I had a lot of girlfriends and a lot of wild parties with strip clubs. It's a lot of demands on the person But at the end of it, I just had no and at the end of it. He said I'm bored. Yeah, and like I Don't want to glamorize this in any way, but I'd tell my brother It's like if I have to remember her name the next day. I work too hard Mm-hmm. I had no respect for them. They were just meeting a need to me yeah, and I mean I was I wasn't abusive and they'd always Give me that affirmation like I was treating him really kind, but I didn't care about other people I Was nobody by ourselves. I was meeting my own needs. Yeah, and But yeah, he was just talking about all these parties and all these women and they're how I was like this stuff's in the Bible and he was just I said maybe there's something to this I just kept reading and reading and Like I said, I read through it four times and eventually I got to the point where I realized there was enough truth things I believe were true that It kind of made that step of faith and I started believing the Bible amen, and I mean there was a lot of Contradictions that I would wrestle with but every time I pray God would show me how they weren't actually Contradictions sometimes he'll tell us there's a hammer and there's a sledgehammer you get to choose when to use which one but They like said I haven't actually found a contradiction that didn't God didn't help me resolve eventually and Hey, what's one of the smartest men and women in the entire world? I've been trying to prove the Bible wrong for centuries and centuries and centuries and they've never really been able to do it and You know I finally and I like to to read things about apologetics the you know why Christianity why their faith and It's just amazing How many reasons there are to just trust the Bible just to believe the Bible, you know and and God meets us where we're at Yeah, I mean like I was He was very patient very merciful and I mean, it wasn't a fast change by any means.

It took years of renewing the mind. And but it was progress and he just kept building and. So this progress was happening while you were still locked up. Yeah. Yeah. And so you had a 10 years to do non ag and how did what finally happened? So my prayer during this time was I got one time. I want it thorough. I don't want to have to come back over and over. How about my buddy that we were running together a lot? He came in and out four times on the same sentence before I got out once. Wow. But I just kept praying. I was like, God, I want authentic genuine change. Yes. I was like, I don't care what it takes. I don't care. I think genuine change. I could feel in my heart that it wasn't when it wasn't thorough. I didn't have that piece. And I just everyone. So I was just still feel that rebellion and rebelliousness in me. And I just keep praying and I just kept asking God to be thorough. And I know in the Old Testament, it says when Jesus comes, he'll be like a refiner or a launderer and he'll he'll he'll sit down and he'll wash that stain out and and I had a lot of deep, deep stains. But he's been consistently working on me for the last 26 years. Yeah. So long story short, when I first got to prison a few months in, I remember hearing a sermon on Jesus and I didn't really know much about it. But I remember vaguely some of the extent where he was just preached the whole

thing about Jesus and he said, Jesus has done all this for you. It's about time you did something back and you surrender your life to him. So I kind of made it official. I said, all right, Jesus, I surrender my life to you. I'll live your way. And if you live your way, yes, set it my way. Yeah. And I'll I'll trust you to meet my needs. And I think that's one of the best definitions of sin I've heard is Dr. Nielty Anderson says that sin is man trying to meet his own needs when God's already promised to meet those needs in Christ. Oh, well, so that again, sin is man trying to meet his own needs. Yeah. When God's already promised to meet those needs in Christ, in Christ. So whether it's joy, happiness, satisfaction, a godly wife, because as I know it, a non godly wife doesn't add a whole lot to your life. But ultimately we're chasing those feelings a lot of times in our lives. We're chasing the feeling, the feel good, pleasure, some form of satisfaction or achievement or recognition or power or control. And God says, I'll give you those and more if you put me first. Yes. And it won't come on your time frame. It'll it'll come when I'm ready to give it to you when I see you're ready for it. But you have to trust my timing. And a couple of weeks later, I remember a sermon on the Holy Spirit, which in the denomination I grew up with, I was never heard anything about that. So he said, you can't understand the scriptures without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will bring the bottle to life and it will point to Jesus. So true. And so he says, I was a little leery of it.

And he started quoting all these scriptures. He says, if your son asked for a loaf of bread, will you give him a snake? How much more will the father give you the Holy Spirit? You who ask, so I say, God, I don't want an evil spirit. But I'd like the Holy Spirit so I can understand the Bible. Yeah. And it was weird. It's like the scriptures came alive. Like I didn't, I didn't highlight the commentary anymore. Yeah, I was getting so much revelation and understanding off the scriptures. I'm the word itself. And for the next two years, I was just consuming the Bible. I mean, it became a passion where. Yeah, that happened to me when I was rendered inside the prison. I was all in. I loved the study. I remember reading, even in the chow hall, I'd have a little pocket New Testament and I'd just be reading Psalms or Proverbs and just. And I didn't care about wasting time. I knew that anytime I put into there, it was an investment. So. And like I said, I'm going to a stage in my life now where I'm going back to the roots. I'm just in the scriptures and God is starting to show that if you sow into that, you'll reap eventually you'll reap a harvest. But so a long story short, that was around 2001 through 2004. Then I went to co-fill. The first maximum security prison in Texas. For those of you that are outside of Texas. Yep, the glass house. Yeah, that's just so hot there. Yeah, and I did four years there.

But the unit I came from in South Dallas was a. It was half TDC half state jail, but they had church 14 hours a day, seven days a week. They had volunteers fighting to get in there. That's a lot. Billy Graham, TD J's, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer. professional athletes. We saw all kinds of just people volunteering their time and energy. You got to pray for a real spirit of discernment, though, from just who to listen to. Yes. And then, and I got off track a couple of times. I mean, I got, I got a little circle, and, but God was faithful to bring me back. If you're, if you're genuinely seeking the truth and asking to know Jesus, which is where I've landed now and my life is like, I've quit, I quit praying for faithfulness. And I would just pray that I can know Christ and that's been my anchor to know him. Yeah, because there's, there's things in my life where I'm just like, I'm consumed like I feel like such a failure. Like I just, I need this to get better. I need this to get better. And, and I just kept hitting roadblock after roadblock. And so I would, the only thing I felt like I had to claim or cling to that gave me any peace is I'd say, God, let me know Jesus. Let me know that he's sufficient. And over the course of time, I've understood that that's the pinch hitter move is like I was slowly given up power and control and of my life to Jesus. I was like, all right, God. Honestly, I wanted to feel better about my behavior. I wanted some attaboys. I wanted, I wanted, I wanted some recognition, some approval. And I didn't like the shame that I was feeling. And in Romans, it says, we long to be clothed with our heavenly bodies because we're, we feel a shame of our nakedness. And he says, but who hopes for what they already have, if we hope for what we don't have in this hope, we're saved. So we're putting our hope that one day we're going to be all that shame is going to be taken away. But in the meantime, we cling to Christ. And he's our pinch hitter. That every time I realized I'm not good enough, he was good enough. But it's been a hard transition, a slow transition for me to let go of my works and cling to Christ and his work. So what happened? We're going to get close to kind of wrap it up in a little while. But when you, so you, you really surrendered in prison. Yes, sir. And you did, you ended up getting out and kind of what kind of bring us up to date on what's happened. Yeah, so I think, I think there's a real testimony about getting a job and everything, wouldn't it? Yes, sir. So I did that, I surrendered regularly, daily, sometimes hourly.

And God was faithful. There's a lot of transformation in that process. But eventually, after seven years on a 10, no cases, anything else. On paper, I had 20 on a 10, no. But I got out and he I perold out to love it. It wasn't even on my parole plan. But I was like, man, you open that door, I'll go wherever you send me and then I'll move. But the first weekend up here in Lubbock, door after door after door opened. And just I got job opportunity. I got a place to live. I got a lot of assistance. And I just realized, all right, God, I'll stay up here and see what you got for me. So I started working for this construction company. That was 19 years ago and a month. I just finished my 19th year with them. Oh, you got you got on with them and never have left. Yeah, yeah. It's been a great company to work for. In spite of your past, in spite of your charges, God gave you a chance. Yeah. And God, over time, it took a long time, but I just was faithful even while I'm parole for three years, there was a lot of restrictions. And I tried to be faithful and just pray about it and ask God for what I needed. Yes. And I remember a few months after I got out, I was at a party and I saw this kind of cute girl. One of the few times I felt like I thought my head. I was kind of, she was making eyes at me and everything. So it wasn't like a party or anything. My brother's wife's birthday party. But long story short, I remember the stop part of my head and he was like, I've got something better for you. Didn't give her another thought. So I was single for 12 years. Eventually, God brought me a godly woman in my life. Got married. I've got two kids. I've never had anything in my life that I didn't overspend on, but he's allowed me to have a home, have a job, have a family. It's not all been easy though. There's ups and downs, there's tribulations, there's trials. Yeah, there are. There's been some definite tribulations and there's been moments where I didn't always... I'm praying about it read about everything and then and make sure you keep God first good. He's been faithful Through discipline through ups and downs and everything else. I mean since that night I said do whatever it takes to get me off the dope. I've been sober for 27 years And now I think you tell me one time that it was it was just almost overnight that the the Lord just You didn't have that desire anymore. Well, some things are right some things you took away really quickly We have to give them Well, it is like it was it was miraculous Was it I was smoking almost three packs of cigarettes a day. Mm-hmm. That left me instantly

Lust instantly when it when there was time it was like overnight And then there's other things like the cravings I had heroin like withdrawals for nine months. Oh, I was by the end of it. I was so sick and tired of it I didn't want to pick it up again But I mean every night I'd wake up by one o'clock Having dreams about it having cold sweats There was a lot of physical symptoms and cravings and Eventually God delivered me from that and I can I for the longest time I couldn't even talk about it without having physical symptoms and while the grace of God it doesn't the traction is gone and Praise God for that because he's and and you have found a part of your purpose in life is to help others go through things That you've had to go through and you've learned from your teacher like me in the sense of God teaches you something and then you're willing and able to share it to others. Yes, sir. It's a Sharing the lessons I've learned and hoping to give other people better tools than I had better tools and the tools that I've gained and have a use the tool. Yeah because like I said the tools were all raised with The best our parents had and and I've raised my kids and seen mistakes I've made And since even my daughters and adult now, but I've seen I've got better tools since she was a kid But a lot of it's I'm learning now. It's like it's just putting a language to your feelings and I think that's why prayer is so important is like You you battle your subconscious mind all these programs all these wounds running in the background Yeah, and that's what scripture does is it's just slowly washing. Yes, it's just slowly washing You don't be transformed by the renewing of your mind And I think we both know that comes from the Holy Spirit using the word. Yeah, and that's in the word You know the Bible doesn't do any good if it's just over there on your shelf all the time Yeah, and if you're not understanding it asking God Yeah, cuz I I remember I went there a season where I put down the bottle and I was working I was getting caught up a little bit not in a bad way, but I just I

Realize I wasn't doing my morning Bible studies and I prayed and prayed for months until I said God let me get back in the morning. Let me get back in that morning Bible study that I had in person and eventually it took about six months, but he you have to establish a routine and what I always recommend establish the routine in Prison and then fight to keep it when you get out. Yeah, cuz there's so many more distractions that'll hit you when you get out But but that time I like spending time early in the day, and I guess that's what you're talking about first thing Spend time with the Lord talk to the talk to the Lord Read the word just be still you know Bible says be still and know that I am God and parenthetically it should say and you're not But it doesn't say that but but yeah, we should know that right I said that and I mean where your treasure is your heart Is yeah, and so the more time you spend doing something and you don't spend doing something else your brain will slowly your heart Will slowly start? Desiring that more but it is it's a it's a pruning. It's a dying to the old and it takes a few weeks or months Sometimes it just depends on how it really rooted those habits are but uh Well, you know We might have to have a part two Because we always run out of time in these podcasts, but As we're winding down Andy the Holy Spirit might have put something on your heart that you wanted to be sure and tell The men and women that are watching this across the country Or just some advice or some hope and encouragement and and I'd like you to you know We don't want to end with that you saying oh, man I wish I said this or whatever. Okay, so just you know what talk to them and anything God puts on your heart Then I'm just gonna ask you to pray us out. Okay. Okay. I I think uh, the thing I would say is- A lot of the cravings and just debauchery that I went to the links that I did trying to find satisfaction and fulfillment in my life. Trying to find out what's worth doing. Like Solomon said, what's worthwhile? I could tell story after story of just, he's an ism in God just being merciful, not taking me out when I deserved it, but when you come to the end of yourself, there is a God. And you don't see him, he's an unseen God, but if you call him the name of Jesus, I can testify that he's been faithful. He's done things in my life that I couldn't do on my own.

That's right. And I would encourage you to learn how to put language to your feelings. That's why I think prayer is so important. Like I said, if you're feeling frustrated, angry, whatever, there is scripture that tells you how to deal with that in a way that God orchestrated. He programmed this world to run a certain way. And when people go against the way it's supposed to run, there's consequences. Maybe not instantly, but eventually you can call it karma, you can call it God, whatever. But I've seen enough to become convinced, like Jesus said, that he's like, "If you abide in my teachings, you'll know what's true." And he goes, "If you obey my teachings, my father and I will reveal ourselves to you, and you'll know, you'll know if it's true." Amen. So I can testify that God wants a relationship with us. He says all day long, I've held up my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people. But he's not desperate. He wants a relationship. But it's up to us, we get to choose. We get to choose what we want in life. Whether we want authenticity, whether we want lust, whether we want power, control, greed. We get to choose what we want in this life. And he wants us to choose him. Amen. And when we don't, there's consequences. And I think the consequences are designed to bring us to our knees. Acts 17 says that God created all men from one person, and he ordained the places and times they're going to live. And in Ecclesiastes it says, "God did this so that men would respect him." He's not very far from us, but he wants each one of us through the frustrations, through the trials, through the tribulations to eventually stop running. And turn ourselves in. Yes. And I think that's what it's like. It's literally like turning yourself in. Amen. Surrender. And there's a certain excitement of being on the run. I was on the run from the law many times, and they never called me. But eventually when you get tired of running, and you're ready to turn yourself in, he's a merciful father. And he wants to restore his wants. So I think that's my testimony. It's his faithfulness to me. Excuse me. Well, would you praise out?

Yeah. Father God, we thank you for your mercy and patience and tolerance in our lives. And we know that that leads us towards repentance. We just pray for open hearts, open ears, open eyes, Lord. Grant us insight, Lord, that we could have wisdom enough to seek you and just to seek what Jesus means to each one of us. We know that Jesus, you reached out to us before we reached out to you, Father. But we just pray that you would sustain us. Give us a desire in our hearts. Yes. Give us a desire to seek you. Turn our hearts away from meaningless and worthless things. And we just pray for fruit in our lives, in our families' lives, in our kids' lives. And you would take the ashes and give us something positive out of that, Lord. You're a redeeming God that loves to take ashes and turn it into something beautiful. Yes. And so we just ask and pray for your mercy and your guidance in our lives. And just for a heart of surrender in each one of our lives. In Christ's holy name, amen. Amen. Thank you, Andy. What a great conversation. Thank you for having me. I know a lot of people got hope and encouragement out of that. Thanks for tuning in again to the Old Man New Man Podcast. And I'll just remind you to be sure and subscribe to our channel on Pando. Share it with others and spend some time on our page looking at all of our past material, because I think you'll get even more hope and encouragement. So God bless you and look forward to seeing you again. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you. [Music]