My Wife Changed My Mind About Porn

- You all are so nervous, like inappropriate, it's Jim, come on, right? Hey, a couple of things before we get into this. First of all, I'm fighting a really bad cold, so I'm gonna be drinking a lot of water up here, and I might spit on you, I'm sorry. So just get a towel or something like that. So if I cough, or if I walk off stage, just sing kumbaya on, I'll be right back, okay? So there's that, the other thing more important than that. This past week has marked some big, big anniversaries, 25 years ago, 9/11. Everybody remembers where we were, and I've been watching following on the news stuff like that, and the tagline with that is, "Never Forget." And if you're looking at our country in New York City, it's like, I think we forgot. And I think we have to lean back into the right things, the good things, all right? And then a year ago, Charlie Kirk assassination, and they're riding our own backyard, the Evergreen School shooting. This past week up at West, they had a worship night. I want to give a shout out to our West campus, because when all the cameras went home, when all the news flipped to the next cycle, whatever that is, our West campus is still, even today, being a light in a dark community. Can we just celebrate our West campus together, right? (audience applauding)

Thank you all. So I'm gonna do that a lot. I'll just apologize, all right? Let's pray real quick. God, in the darkness of our world, you're still light. And the evil that surrounds us, you're still good. And so in all these tragedies, all these lives that have been lost, all these lives that have been laid down, trying to fight for good things, we just lift up those men and women and their families, not just on the other side of the world. I mean, right here in our own church, we're carrying a lot of heavy stuff. And so we just, we reach out to you on these anniversaries and to whom else would we go but you? You alone have the words of life. And so God, all those families that are still hurting and remembering have suffered loss. We just, in the name of Jesus, surround them and lift them up to you. Will you please take good care of them? I pray all this in Jesus' name, amen. Amen? Okay, I just, one more quick word. We have to look at our world around this and we have to see these tragedies. And I would add Lindsey Clancy into it, all right? It's more than political. It's more than mental health.

It's more than a one-off extremist. It's originating from the spiritual realm, right? It is evil, attacking, good. And so I'm telling you that because two weeks from now, we're gonna start a new series looking at the spiritual realm. The working title right now is Same Demons, Different Day. Same demons, 2,000, 3,000 years ago, 25 years ago, and today, they just have new names. They're doing the same thing. Let's jump into this. We're gonna pick up right where we left off last week. I'm packing the idea that a marriage on mission, like any successful mission, is made up of three main components. We're gonna go really quickly here, right? Vision, like where do you wanna go? Where do you want your marriage to go? And let me talk, just talking again, to all the not married people in here. This today might be more important to you, than not married yet people, than those of us who are already married, because if we've messed this up, we're in recovery. And you have a chance to do it right. So this is really, really, really important. So you have the vision where we're gonna go. The second is intent, like what is the level of commitment and agreement between the two of you to see that vision become actually reality, like the lived out reality of your experience in this life?

You may be able to articulate a beautiful vision for your marriage. And you may look over at one another, even right now and go like, do you want that? I want that, I love you, I love you, and it gets sick. Right, right, yeah, you got a great intent, okay? That's really, you gotta have that. But nothing really changes or moves toward that vision, becoming a reality until you're able to identify, articulate, and then execute a strategy. And every strategy is made up of two different components or categories. Always do this. Last week we looked at what God's word says must always be present, have to go back and listen to it. You should have been here, that's all right. Okay, so today I wanna spend all of our time on the other part of the strategy called never do that. You have always do this and you have never do that. But before I get into that, I wanna address something else. A lot of side bars here, okay? That may come up for some of us, and I've actually had conversations, it's already come up for some of us, especially if you're like Robin and I last week, you watched the documentary Death of a Pastor's Wife, anybody? It's number one on Netflix, don't watch it. Anyway, it's a story of, I mean, it's like going on right now,

a highly abusive, manipulating, domineering pastor, I don't wanna point at me, use the Bible, and I'm watching this with Robin, the same verses I'm teaching on in the series. But he used them to physically and emotionally and sexually abuse and destroy his wife's body and her mind. And then he pointed at, he misapplied scripture to justify to her and everybody else what he was doing. Let me just say this, I'm passionate. Any pastor who does that, any person who uses the word of God to justify or minimize his own sin or to normalize physical or sexual abuse against his wife or any person, they're a false teacher, Run the other way. Don't believe them, they don't speak for God. (congregation applauding) I was so mad at that TV, I did not represent Jesus well in my living room. It's like you, 'cause I get lumped in with that, you know? So today as we talk about sex and intimacy, nothing should ever be used, taken or applied in such a way that would cause fear or harm or manipulation or humiliation or shame or pressure anyone to do anything apart from what God says is right, true, pure and good. And let me just get inside right. If you're in that mess, if that's happening to you, if you're experiencing that, get out and get safe. And then once you're in a safe place, then you can hear from God what you need to do next. Is that clear?

Okay, don't let anybody use God's word to push you down. Now last week I spent quite a bit, yeah. Okay, it's gonna get so quiet in here. I got some jokes at the end, stick around, right? So last week we spent quite a bit of time on this mistake that we make that we confuse sex and intimacy, all right? They aren't the same thing, but they are closely connected and sex works best in the context of one man, one woman for life in a covenantal, intimate marriage, a spiritual promise to God, husband, wife, the two shall become one. So having said that, today it's gonna be very practical. And on a certain level, I think most of us are gonna logically agree with what you hear that makes sense. But here's what I know is gonna happen, all right? You're gonna have all kinds of conversations in your head, rationalizations, justifications, and then exceptions are gonna go through your mind. Yeah, but what about, what if he does that, or what if she won't do this, or what if they can't help it? So in any of those questions come up for you, like what's the person supposed to do, the answer will always be, whatever God's word tells you to do, do that. And he will give you the strength to do what might feel impossible from your current circumstance. He'll show you what to do, and you'll just decide if you're gonna do it or not.

Okay, ready, okay. So we're gonna start, right? He's gonna jump right in the deep end of the pool. This might be the best, most practical thing you've ever heard in church. You might not even be a Christian, you're gonna go, well, that actually makes sense. Most of you would agree that what I'm about to say, we've removed much of the pain, regret, guilt, and shame from a person's life. Less marriages would be ruined. Less baggage would be brought into our marriage. It's really good, I wish I could say I thought it up, but God did. So he said like 50 different wages and words, but you're gonna want to write this down, get your phones out, something like that. You're gonna memorize it, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna stick, all right? It's, again, it's very, very much to be in the book of Proverbs, right? Here it is, don't ever do this, ready? Never have sex with anyone than the person you're currently married to. Any questions? Right, all right, let's close the prayer and go home. All right, so, honest, good thing about life, life gets better and so many problems, not all of them, but so many problems just go away if you'd say, I'm just gonna have sex with my spouse

and nobody else. Actually, a better way to say that, never do that would be this, don't pursue sexual intimacy, emotional connection, or private, by that I mean secret conversation with anyone other than your spouse, even when you're motivated by feelings and emotions and frustrations around unmet wants or needs regarding what's not happening or what's lacking at home. She's not, give me what I want, what I need. He's not, give me what I want or what I need. Rather than addressing that unmet want or need, or after trying to address that unmet want or need to your spouse and seeing nothing change, one of you made a choice to step out of the marriage bed and you went shopping, and then you said this to yourself, it's actually not my fault. What else was I supposed to do? It's actually partially on them why I did what I did. And that's the oldest story in the book, right? Back in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve decided they stepped outside about God told them to do, they did the same thing. They blamed Satan, you know he tricked me, it's not my fault. They blamed each other, it's her fault. They even blamed God. If you'd given me a better spouse, I wouldn't have had to do that. None of those excuses held up. So write this down, I think you'll remember it though.

Reasons are not excuses to pursue sin. Let's say that together, one, two, three. Reasons are not to pursue sin. The only reason that we pursue sexual sin is that we made a decision to let go of covenantal intimacy. We chose to let go of holding fast to one another and we decided to take hold of and find someone else what we promised we'd only look for in our spouse. And you'll always have a list of reasons to point to. And you're probably right. He's selfish and he doesn't care about me. He cares about everything but me. Leaving both of you feeling unloved, unsafe, unwanted, unhappy, which you will eventually use as an excuse to just go find it somewhere else. One or both of you are feeling like you're missing something. Now, just so that no one's thinking like, I bet I'm the only one in this room that feels like that. You're not. If you've ever had temptation to sin sexually as a single person or against your marriage, if that's ever gone through your mind, you aren't weird. You aren't odd, you're not bad. As a matter of fact, you're in the majority, not the minority of every man and woman whether you're married or single. Paul writes this, we're in 1 Corinthians chapter 10. We're going to be in 1 Corinthians quite a bit, so if you want to find that in your Bible,

I'm supposed to say that at the top. But anyway, 1 Corinthians chapter 10, we're going to break this down phrase by phrase. It goes like this, Paul says, he's the author, he says, no temptation has overtaken you, right? That's not common to people, man, mankind, right, right? Little translation, if you're human, show of hands. Okay, all right, if you're human, temptation will entice every one of us to consider letting go of God's truth and to sin. How do you know that? Jesus was tempted in every way that you and I have been tempted and will be tempted. So if Jesus and human flesh was tempted, I promise you you're going to get tempted too. Not because you're weak, not because you don't have enough faith, again, not because you're a bad person. Because you're human, all of us will be tempted to consider letting go of what God says is true and then do something else. We all share that, got it? Let's keep reading, no temptation is overtaken you, it's not common to man, look at this. God is, what's the word, come along. God is faithful and God will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, leave it up there. It does not say God will not let you be tempted at all. It doesn't say if you have faith, he's going to put a Jesus bubble around you, he's like, just bounces off, right, right?

No, in the famous Lord's Prayer, Jesus includes lead us not into temptation. He won't, but lots of other things will, and when temptation takes hold of you, God's faithful promise is I'm going to put a limit on what that temptation is able to do in your life. And that limit is before you choose sin, like that's my only option, God will always faithfully give you the strength and the ability to choose not sin. How? Well, he won't knock you unconscious and drag you out of the hotel, he won't do that, right? He won't zap you, right? And take away your sex drive and appetites, that would be convenient sometimes, right? But here's what he faithfully promises to do, right? Here comes temptation. But with the temptation, God will also provide the way of escape that you may be able to endure it, survive it. He will provide a way of escape for you to walk away from what's tempting you. He will give you an opportunity, call it, he'll open a door out of what the simple choice that's tempting you to do, but you'll have to make the choice, 'cause you have free will, you'll have to make the choice

to go through the door he's opened or ignore it, close it and say, I'm gonna stay right here, I'll be fine. Every human will be tempted to sin, and we'll look at this in a minute. Sexual sin is at the top of the list. But if you're a Christian, covered by the blood of Jesus, we just sang it, right? Filled with the Holy Spirit, right? God will provide you a way out and the strength to choose him, choose your spouse, choose truth over the lie. God is faithful. If you choose to pursue sexual sin, it's because you chose to pursue sexual sin. Not because God wasn't there for me. Yeah, he was. Well, the devil made me do it. No, he didn't, not true. The devil has influence and he will pressure you and he will throw temptation at you, but he has no authority over you and your choices that was broken at the cross. None of us gets to play the victim card. I couldn't help it. If that's true, then God is not faithful. God is a liar and you're on your own. We're all on our own. But the truth is when we find ourselves in those places, in those times of temptation,

most of the time, not all of the time, but most, almost all the time, when we find ourselves in situations and circumstances, we should have been there in the first place. And while ambush and didn't see that coming are always possible, most of the time we placed ourselves in tempting situations by a long string of decisions and choices that isolated or on their own didn't seem like a big deal. But if you take one step and then another step and then another step after a while, you're gonna look up and go, "I am miles from where I need to be." How'd you get there? Little moments from committing this ultimate, I never thought I would do that. Well, most likely you didn't do one, always do this that we didn't cover last week. Instead, you did something else. If you have your Bible with your first Corinthians, chapter six, you can memorize this verse. It only has four words. Even if you're a cheese fan, you can figure this one out, all right? So, come on, get Amy in there, won't I? Okay, all right. Here's the, always do this. Flea from sexual immorality. Did the person actually say it or did he go, hmm, okay, right?

I'm gonna give you one more chance, one, two, three, flee from... So, you know, this is what you're paying me to do. I did a word study, I did a bunch of it, all right, right? On the word flee, it comes from the Greek word fuego, and it translates flee. Secondary meaning escape, my translation, run! Like, get the heck away from it. Put as much distance as you can between it and you. What is it? Where we fleeing from, sexual immorality, word study, Greek word porneia, translated sexual immorality. Any sexual behavior, I'm gonna give you this definition 47 times a day, any sexual behavior or activity that does not align with God's truth and violates the moral standards of right and wrong, according to, not me, God, porneia. If it doesn't align with what God says is right and true, it responds, flee, run, escape. And here's where our lives train wreck. Here's the problem. We don't flee, we flirt. We don't run, we're like, ah, let's just get to know each other. We minimize, we rationalize, we tell ourselves, it's harmless, it doesn't mean anything. Or we'll even say this, like, okay, it's probably not good, but it's better than nothing. We see how close we can get to that line, and we tell ourselves, I'll never cross that line. Instead of responding this way, even if it doesn't seem like a big deal,

our response has to be, I don't wanna get close to that line, how far can I get away from that thing? Sexual sin is not worse than other sins in regards to separating from God and needing the blood of Jesus to bring about forgiveness and reconciliation back to God. All sin is the same in regards to condemnation and how it's dealt with blood of Jesus. But sexual sin is different than all other sins in regards to consequences in this life. It's just different, and it's more devastating and destructive to you, your spouse, and your family. Even if you work through with God and you get forgiveness for what you've done, the consequences just keep rocking and rolling, nothing else compares. You can steal, you can rock a bank, you can cheat on your taxes, you can get a DUI, you can go to jail, and you're married, probably take a nick, but you can work through that. You can have sex with a person you're not married to. It's a totally different ballgame. It's a different conversation, as it should be, because your sin isn't primarily just you and the other person you're sleeping with. You have sinned against yourself, you've sinned against that person, you've sinned against your wife, you've sinned against God, and your sin will fall out on everybody attached to you. It's not isolated to you.

Everybody will feel the pain and the fallout from your sexual sin, like no other sin you'll commit. So circle back to that sexual morality. By definition, sexual immorality is any sexual activity pursued outside of the covenantal intimate, we are one flesh married. If it's not what God designed and blessed and it involves sex, it's sexual immorality. It's sin and it's off limits. If you have your Bible, again, just turn to the right a little bit, almost to the back, in the book of Hebrews, we find this directive, command from the Lord, all right? So Hebrews chapter 13, verse four, it says this, let marriage be held in honor among everybody. Everybody needs to honor marriage, right? And let the marriage bed be undefiled. Why? For God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. Let marriage be held in honor among everybody. So for those not married yet, or anymore, right? Honor, honor, marriage that you will have in the future. By honoring and guarding what you're gonna bring into that marriage, which will be your entire sexual history. But also, honor the marriage of the person that you're not married to. We say, we're gonna get married in a month, but you're not married yet. In other words, it's not your bed yet. Stay out of their marriage bed,

even if you're invited by one of them to jump on in. If they are married to someone who is not you, zero sexual contact, back to how we started. Don't ever have sex with a person that you aren't currently married to. It goes on, I'll address this to married people, okay? It says, "And let the marriage bed be undefiled." Undefiled means this, don't corrupt it. Don't let any impurity in there. Don't let anything unclean get in your bed. Free from stain and blemish, why? For God will judge the sexual immoral and the adulterous. Right, and you say, what is gonna zap us? You're just gonna feel so much pain. You're gonna regret, that's the judgment of God. So let me sum all that, all right. You are in an exclusive covenant relationship with your spouse and with God. So never do what? Anything God doesn't allow and bless Both have to be present. So he, if your spouse says, "I don't care if it's in, "you're on your own, go do it." If God doesn't allow it or bless it, it's sexual immorality and you don't go there. Even if your husband said, "It's okay." Now I'm really gonna drive this home, it's over and over. So when I was a youth pastor, like 100 years ago, all right, some high school boy would be sent to my office or something like that.

He got caught watching porn or making out with his girlfriend and he'd go, "Pass your gym." I'm like, "I couldn't help it. "I couldn't make myself stop." And I go, "B.S. "If your mom walked in the room, could you stop?" If her dad walked in the room, could you have stopped? He goes, "Well, yeah, yeah, then, all right, okay." Right, so it's possible to stop. How about this? Would you continue with your sexual immorality if your spouse were in the room being forced to watch you do it? Because with marriage, right, you are one flesh, which means that you drag your spouse into whatever sinful video or bed that you were in. And a day will come when they will be forced to watch what you're doing and what you did. Not in the moment, but I promise when the truth comes out, they will play it and replay it and replay it in their mind's eye. They'll see you doing with someone else what was at one time exclusively just the two of you and they will experience pain like nothing else you've ever felt. So knowing that if you continue down that path, you're making a choice today's sin over your spouse and children's future. Because you're choosing your own temporary pleasure over potential lifelong destruction

of your spouse and family, right this down. You can help it, why? God is faithful and He will give you the power to walk away. Now, I want you to do this. I want you to pay attention to the conversations and arguments going on in your head right now, right? As you listen to this. 'Cause here's why. Our culture has no regard for honor or for covenant. Our culture is addicted to sexual activity, and consummation even when God calls it his sin. I don't care, go for it. So let's get even more specific, all right? We covered this last week, so you have to go back, right? Jesus taught this without exception in His word, right? He taught that sexual activity, sexual consummation, sexual union is only permitted and blessed by God within the boundaries of heterosexual, covenant, marriage. One man, one woman, one flesh joined by God for life. That's it. All sex outside of heterosexual marriage is porneo, sexual immorality, and God forbids it and will not bless it. Well, does that include pornography? Yeah, it's off limits. The person in the image or on the screen is not your spouse, and God forbids it, will not bless it, and so as followers of Jesus, we can't have any part of it. Side note, here's what's going on in the American church, but I think it's going on in all of our campuses

and in this room even right now. There are Christians, you just got really uncomfortable. Some of you are already angry and already writing an email in your head to me because when I pointed out that Jesus said all sex outside, Jesus said, by all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is sin, nobody flints at the idea of, yeah, you're cheating on your husband or wife, that's a sin? Of course it's a sin. That makes sense. I won't get one email on, I can't believe you called cheating a sin. My friend was with me and he said I'm near fair and he felt uncomfortable. I won't get that email, right? Somebody did the math and he realized that all sex outside of heterosexual marriage also included all homosexual behavior, period. And culturally, usually, you sat here, you've been trained to respond, wait, I don't think we're allowed to say that anymore. Like it's different now, that you sound kind of hateful, like homophobia, after all, love is love. And by the way, Jim, what if it's the same sex? Marriage, so they're married. According to Jesus, there's no such thing. You can call it what you want. American, Colorado can legalize it and recognize it, but God forbids it and will not bless it, therefore neither can a follower of Jesus

have anything to do with it. Now for saying that, my inbox is gonna fill up 'cause why I'm catching a plane out of town tomorrow, right? So, usually I don't think it's fair, why don't they really love each other? I'll give that to you, they probably do, right? Irrelevant. I can't do everything I love. God is love, and God forbids it and will not bless it. This isn't a Jim thing or a flattering thing. God will not bless it, and neither can you if you're a follower of Jesus. Love everyone, absolutely. But human love alone will never trump God's love, God's word, God's commands, and what he will and will not recognize and bless. That's not hateful, that's not uncaring, that's not being insensitive, that's not lack of compassion. The most loving thing you could ever do toward any person is to hold onto and be obedient and submissive to the word of God and his truth because we believe that God wants good for all people So we trust Him even when our emotions and our feelings and our culture tempt us to move in a different direction. He's still sinned, not because flatter and said it because that's what God calls it. To choose otherwise doesn't show love towards a person. Just trying to love them, right? It actually shows hatred or disregard for God

and hatred and disregard for the person you are supporting in their rejection of God's truth. It's the most hateful thing you could do to them. So let me tie all this together, all right? And it's quiet. Sexual sin, adultery, pornography, affairs, cheating, gay or straight, sexual sin's different than all of the sin, not in condemnation, but in consequences, every, got it, all right? But in the culture we live in, and many of us as Christians, when we hear stuff like that, when we immediately try to do these middle and spiritual gymnastics to something that God calls sin and we make a decision under certain circumstances, I don't think in this case it's sin. Or we try to rank them as, okay, it's not good, but it's not as bad as that other sin, it could be worse. I'll give an example, again, I'm sticking to Robin and I owe examples in this series, right? So last week I posted, I didn't post, my composer, so many books, all right? This story on my social media, okay? So a while back I was talking to Robin in the kitchen and I told that one of my friends had got busted by his wife for looking at pornography and she was trying to decide if she should pursue divorce or not. Robin didn't even flinch, she goes, I don't blame her. I'm like, that's a bit of an overreaction, isn't it? I mean, it's not like he had an affair

and she said, it's the same thing, I went, what? It's babe, it's not the same thing. She said, yeah, it is. I said, so you're saying that if you caught me looking at porn or you found out that I had checked into a hotel and had sex with another woman, you would see it as the same thing and she didn't miss a beat, yeah, it is the same thing. And we went back and forth and back and forth. And then something inside of my brain clicked and I'll call that something, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit said, Jim, shut up and stop talking. Like sit down, what are you doing? Anybody have the Holy Spirit tell them that? Stop talking, all right, right? And here's the answer, here's what I was doing. It appeared like I was trying to defend pornography which I would never do. But what I was doing was I'm ranking pornography as well at least it's not as bad as an affair to my wife at which point I realized the person on them receiving end of that news of that discovery would be equally devastated by either one. So if Robin sees it that way, that's the way it is and I agree with her. But you know what, it doesn't matter what Jim thinks or Robin thinks, more importantly, Jesus sees it that way. He said this on a sermon on the Mount, some of the best three chapters in the Bible. Matthew 5, he says, so you've heard that it was said,

the law, you shall not commit adultery. At least I didn't do that. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart, lustful intent. That's Porneia, that's the point of pornography. What do you mean? Rehearsing and fantasizing about what I would do to him or her and with him or her if I had access to him or her and there were no consequences and I wouldn't get caught. I would do that. And Jesus says that if you, you're intentionally rehearsing and fantasizing about sinning with another person, you're just as guilty as the person who actually physically engaged in that sin with them. And that's not speculation, that's not my opinion. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. Some of you shouldn't go, that's rather extreme. If you disagree with it, you're disagreeing with Jesus and that makes you wrong. I hear this quite often from Christians, right? In this church, this church is nuts. All right, so Pastor Jim, what if my wife and I watch Porne together? I've gotten that dozens of times, right? Here's the answer. No. Zoom it, dang, all right?

Why, it's Porneia. It's defiling the marriage bed. It's inviting a third party into a covenant relationship that's reserved exclusively for two under the blessing of God. And if you choose to violate it, you do so at the risk of his judgment according to God's word. Pournager, if you will not help your marriage get better, it will cause more pain and more suffering and it will ruin your marriage. 'Cause it's sin. So I, again, welcome to Flatirons. I was asked this recently. So what if my wife and I wanna make our own Porne video? Let me just lean forward. I saw you. I say, you didn't mean to, but you went, all right? So I'll give you two, three things on this. This is why your kids are already in kids ministry. Good luck with this conversation, I'll be home, all right? So firstly, right, if it's consensual, intimate, honoring to God into one another, it's inclusive to the two of you, under the cover of covenants or marriage, then by definition it isn't Porneia because it's just the two of you involved in no one else. Second thing, I got three, all right? Second thing, be very careful because it's possible to use or abuse your spouse

as a sex object for your own gratification. 'Cause it's just about you, and that would be sin. And thirdly, I'm just gonna throw this one in. It may be permissible, but it might not be a good idea, right? Nobody wants a little Susie walking into your church, small group with your phone going, "Mommy and daddy are wrestling, look at that!" You know, and one push of the button, and it goes viral, and you're famous. And not the way you want it to be, all right? So, but inside the marriage bed, again, if it doesn't defile it, if it's intimacy, if it's exclusive, if it's honoring, and both of you agree that it's exciting and funny, you want to do it, go for it. I mean, go for it, right? Get creative, and right here in my sermon, I had a list of what I thought were some creative ideas for you to think about. But my wife read my sermon, and she went, "Ah, no." I think she thought they were suggestions for us. I'm not looking down it right now. I was just trying to be compassionate. I was just thinking, maybe somebody else wants to dress up as a cowboy, and hit the hayloaf with their farm wife. That sounds awesome. (audience laughs) The giddy-up, all right? That will never happen in my barn.

I just promise you that. Also, be careful when you're trying to spice things up in the marriage bed, have some fun, but some things you maybe have thought about is exciting and romantic, they're not, all right? True story told with permission from my wife. So, we got married back in the 1900s. I mean, wave, right, like an 84, and Robin, I went to Florida, and we had the beach to ourselves, come to find out later, we had it to ourselves, 'cause it was a shark bite, capital of Florida, right there, right? Nobody's here, right, all right? So, but we had the beach to ourselves, and I thought, sex on the beach. Like, we're stranded on a remote island. Like, that's the holy grail of sex, right there, okay? So, I said, "Do you want to?" And she said, "Oh, okay, let's go." And she said, "We went for it, did not go well." 'Cause now that happened in the movies, right? First, we got attacked by sandflies everywhere. I mean, like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. And honestly, I had so much sand in my butt crack, I could have made a pearl. I mean, I'm telling you that. So, we like to look at each other like, let's go back to the hotel, right? Check that off the bucket list, never try that again, all right? So, okay, all right.

So, I went in today, and I wanted a series with a few, I'm gonna call them guardrails, income rules or laws, but when you hear laws, you think, confining, the only reason God gives us laws is not though, so if we keep them, he'll love us, they're confirmation that he already does, and he just cares about us. And if you stay inside of the boundaries, your marriage will be more protected, especially in times of conflict, when things aren't going well. Again, most of the time that we find ourselves in tempting situations, marry or single, that lead to never do that disastrous, over time we place ourselves intentionally or unintentionally in places we should never have gotten to in the first place. But in order to get there, directionally we're headed there for a long time. So, I'm gonna start with some of my guardrails, my staff calls them Jim's dad rules, probably some of the oldest guy you're here, right? And they're my personal guardrails, but they are staff policy for a staff here at Flatterns, and if they violate them, I'll fire them, okay? First, all right, you wanna write these down, right? I don't meet with, counsel with or place myself alone in a room, office or isolated space with a woman, never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Public space, sometimes, door open, always. If a woman comes up to me, be that a staff woman,

a woman out here in the lobby after church, a woman at the gym asks me, "Hey, can I talk to you in private? "Can I talk to you alone? "Can I meet with you for counseling?" I'll just look at her and go like, "Nope." Backstage, I have an office backstage. Even if the door is open and any woman that isn't Robin comes in, our security team is under instructions, get in the room, not just shooter. (audience laughs) They're all looking at you, you know that, right? That's the last resort, but. (audience laughs) To protect me and protect her from any accusation or appearance of inappropriate conversation. It's not that I think I'm irresistible and she's not gonna, she don't jump my bones or something. Or I'm not gonna be able to contain myself with a woman. No, no, I'm simply not gonna put myself in a position of the possibility of even an accusation of wrongdoing or temptation. Heads up, we live in a world of, he said she heard. In a mere accusation could ruin me, my marriage, my family, and this church. And if the woman who asks me doesn't understand that, I don't care. If you don't understand that, I especially don't wanna meet with you.

In the same way I don't travel alone, I don't share a meal with a woman who isn't Robin. I always bring along a third party, right? Shout again, I fly out tomorrow and speak at a leadership conference down in Florida. I'm taking one of my elders with me. Not to be my watch dog, it's just be my friend. I as a general rule of full transparency. I don't text or email a woman without also adding or copying a third party in Robin and Genesin, my assistant, and our IT department. I just assumed they're watching. Now listen, some of you are going like this is dumb. This is overkill, that doesn't even work in my job. Why not? Sure it would if you made it non-negotiable. It's gonna be inconvenient, but if it was important enough, you'd figure it out. Whatever you have to do, do it, and I promise whatever it costs you, it's less than alimony. See, I can't think of one couple who had it to deal with an affair that said, I don't know how that just happened all one day. No, it didn't. It all started with some, this is no big deal. It doesn't mean anything conversation. At the office, or at the gym, or at a restaurant, and it probably, I'll give you it. It started innocently, then it got a little more familiar,

and then it got flirtatious, and then in a moment of frustration and temptation, you did what you never thought would happen. And now you have lawyers getting involved in a child custody battle. See, dad rules, guard rules, is a decision to go upstream and proactively not take one step in that direction. Why would you not choose to do that? Now, I can only come up to reasons. You're so cocky and arrogant, you think you'll never get tempted. Said everybody who fell. Or how about this? You know that those guardrails would interfere with something that you're already doing or planning on doing, and they'll get in the way. You're flirting, you're not fleeing. So very quickly, I wanna throw in, five or six never do that. I got him from my friend, Josh Howardton, down at Lake Point Church in Texas. Fantastic church, great pastor. Yeah, Josh, I'm plagiarizing a little bit. Anyway, I've heard most of these before, but he really nails it when it comes to dealing with conflict, fights, I don't know what you call them here, like spirited debates, I don't know what you call them at your house, okay?

I'm gonna give you a six of 'em real quick, take a picture of 'em, write 'em down, and then do these, okay? So number one goes like this in your other fight. No name calling. And the half the room went, (sighs) I'll be all good, all right? He or she might be acting like a whatever, but when you call them that, labeling that, you're defining them by their behavior, and that's called disparaging. Dallas Willard calls it contempt. It's redefining them as something different and less than what God says is true about them, and once you do that, you can treat 'em any way you want. You can't hear your wife, she's a child of God, a daughter of God. You can hear your dog, so you call her the dog word, and you give yourself permission to act accordingly. You can't walk out and cheat on your husband, he's your husband, you promise. You can walk out on a loser, a failure, failure, you're just like your dad, you can cheat on that, man. See, renaming someone by their behavior redefines them as something less than or different than what God has said is true, and then it allows you to treat them less than who and what they really are. They are a son and a daughter of God. They're an imager of God, and they're your husband,

they're your wife. Don't call 'em names, if you've been calling names, apologize, and don't do it again. Second one goes like this, they get worse, by the way, right? Don't say always or never, ever. Don't say always or never, right? It may feel like it in the moment of crisis, but to use absolute language leaves no room for anything else, but what they have currently done wrong and they're judged and condemned. It discounts anything or any progress they might have made. Always, and you never convey, it doesn't matter. It doesn't count, you're always like this, you'll always be like this, you'll never change. You say that enough times, it will come true. Third one, all right, you're ready, right? Never threaten divorce in a fight. See, I don't know what your fights have been at or your conflicts look like in the past, but from now on, stop. Do not weaponize and hold a future hostage to the threat of divorce because once you introduce it into the conversation, it's on the table as an option and you can't get it back. It might be the only thing left, like I don't know what else to say, to throw out that person. You're an anger and a desperation and a fear and you're just getting ready to say it, don't say it. But you're tongue in half, all right?

If one of you plays that card enough times, eventually the other one's gonna pick it up. Again, I'm not talking about if you're in an abusive, dangerous situation, not talking about that. I'm just really mad, I'm really frustrated, I don't know what to do, I don't see how this is ever gonna get better, the next thing you feel like you wanna say is maybe divorce is the only option. If you say that, I promise you're most likely headed for divorce, so don't say it. This one I struggle with. Don't raise your voice, all right? Here's my, no one has ever been argued or shouted or yelled down into unity or intimacy. Compliance, yeah? Subjugation, absolutely. Ending the argument or conflict, no. I mean, you stop the current yelling match, you just pushed it underground and it will come out another way, usually worse. I mean, that reminds us something that we forget, especially when we're fighting. We're supposed to be fighting for our marriage, for one another. We're not trying to win a battle at least, one of us the winner and one of us the loser. You're both lost, all right? If anybody ever talked to my wife, like I've talked to my wife, if anybody ever talked to me,

the way that I have talked to or disrespect to Robin, I would punch him in a face. If I talk to my dogs or raise my voice to my dogs, like I have in the past to Robin, I would walk in the house they would run and hide. Some of us talk to our dogs better than we talk to the person we're married to. Of course you're frustrated and you're hurt and you're angry. Volume won't help or make your point better. It may win the battle, you will lose the war. No one has ever lost an argument that led to, I love you more. I like this one, write this one down. If you have anything, don't quote your pastor in a fight. Don't. (audience laughs) Stop it. Somebody did last week, I got the emails, like, "Hey, spaghetti of the door." You're like, "Okay, so should have been here." Like, please take the phrase, well, Pastor Jim said that you need to do that. Well, Pastor Jim says you're not allowed just to say or do that to which if you said that to me, here's what I look at in the face and go, well, blank Pastor Jim, that's what I would do. Well, then what should I do? Point to Jesus and his word. Jesus said it. Point to yourself, draw a circle around yourself.

Point to yourself, all right? Jesus said it, I'm just a messenger. Final one, this is how I'm gonna wanna close this series, right? Read it carefully, don't get historical. When you're in a conflict, stop bringing up the past, especially if you already told him that you forgave it for him. See, if you do, if you keep bringing it up, they will quickly learn that your statements and claims of forgiveness, this weren't true. It's just one more rock you put on the pile to bring out in the future to stone them in the next conflict. First Corinthians chapter 13 says this, "Love keeps no record of right or wrong. "If you forgive them, you gotta let it go." Which brings us to this. Let's talk about the hardest part of life, but definitely one of the hardest things in marriage because you feel like you just kinda set yourself up. You open yourself up, you let down your guard. You put yourself in a vulnerable position that might've felt risky, but you actually believe that one time you could trust this person. Even to the point of at your wedding ceremony, you value promise for better or worse. You just didn't know for worse this would happen or it'd feel like this. So let's talk about forgiveness. Here's what's true about everybody in this room and all of our campuses watching online

six months from now. It's true for me, it's true for this man right here, it's true for this woman right here, it's true for all everyone of us. And I say that because while we are talking about marriage and its ability to lead to more joy or more pain than anything else in this world, for some of us, what I'm about to talk about, predates our marriage. But the truth is, we just brought it with us. And it's coming out on our marriage and on our spouse and on our kids and on ourself. See, here's what we all have in common. We've all been hurt. We have all felt pain. Some of us right now, we're sitting in pain. Even though we've tried to convince ourselves that we're over it or it doesn't really matter, it happened a long time ago, I've moved on. True, it happened a long time ago, maybe years ago, we or somebody else did something wrong and God has forgiven us for them. Here's the problem, but we've never healed and it's still causing wounds in everybody around us. You know your story, you're thinking about it right now. Somebody promised you something and they lied. Some of you assured you that something would never, ever, ever happen and it happened. Someone promised you that they would love you, provide for you, protect you, prioritize you.

You could count on them and nobody else was there to count on and the person we trusted most is the one who hurt us the most deeply. They hurt you, they bailed on you, they left you behind, they moved on like you'd never even mattered. And now you're sitting here today and going, yeah, nailing at you, I'm mad and I'm angry and sad and I'm bitter and I'm guarded so much so that it's my life. Well, God brought you here today for a reason. These are called this moment right here, this is a crossroads. And what you do with this moment will determine much of how you will or will not experience abundant life that Jesus came to give you and here it is. I'm asking a question that the thing that was done to you, the person who did it to you, will you forgive them or not? (exhales deeply) [BLANK_AUDIO] And if the answer is no, why not? Are you waiting until they apologize? I'm sorry. Are you waiting to see some evidence that they really are? Sorry. And what would that look like? What would you need to see? Do you need to see them suffer like you had to suffer? To somehow pay for what they did and make it right?

Let me ask you. Anything they could do or pay or suffer that would get you to the place where what happened doesn't even matter anymore. It's like it never happened. It happened. It left a mark. It will always be there. What do you need from them, for yourself, to make the choice to forgive them? So forgiveness does not mean act like it never happened to move on. That's naive. Forgiveness is making a decision. And I know it's a decision because God commands us to forgive, so it's not a feeling. It's a decision, and here's the decision. I'm canceling the debt that you owe me, and you owe me. But you couldn't pay it anyway. So I don't need anything from you. Forgiveness is a decision that you don't need anything from them for yourself, for you to choose how you're going to live from now on. Forgiveness does not mean continually put yourself back at risk. It mostly means this. I'm not going to hold this against you any longer. And things have to change. This can't happen anymore, period. So forgiveness comes with accountability. Absolutely, sure.

Will there need to be new boundaries? Absolutely. Forgiveness should include those and probably more. What forgiveness does not include is your further right to continue to punish them for what they did. You cannot claim to forgive them and then continue to remind them and beat them over the head with what they did to you. If you do that, honestly, you never forgave them because you still want to hurt them. See, you're not forgiving them because you think it's hurting them and it is. The failure to forgive, the person who's heard probably the most by failure to forgive is you, not them, you, right? Because you are thinking about it. You're held hostage to the past. You're like it owns you, you're like you're changing it. You're the one who relives the sin against you every day, every day, every day, every day. The biggest one being punished by your non-forgiveness is you. Now hopefully the person who hurt you, especially if it was your husband or wife, they have repented and they're doing everything, all their work they can to rebuild trust with you. I pray that's true. But most likely the person who hurt you in the past

has moved on and doesn't even think about you anymore. You think about them every day. You allow them to continue to hurt you over and over and over and over, which is why Jesus brings you to this moment. And it's a crossroads moment. See, Christianity is the only faith system, Jesus taught us this, built and modeled it, built around unreasonable forgiveness. Well, that didn't make sense, I know. Sometimes grew up Catholic, we know. You have to pay penance to work off your sin. If you're part of Islam, you have to do something that at least says good or better than what you did bad, kind of balance the scales, like fly a plane into an air, into a building, and then you'll be forgiven and go to paradise. Christianity says this, it's not based on them or him or her, right? It's based on this, what Jesus has done for you. And given you what you don't deserve and pay what you cannot pay, the way you convey, I get it, not earn it, you can't earn it, the way you convey, I understand what Jesus has done for me, is you extend that forgiveness to someone else, even if it's the person closest to you that did the worst thing. Because if Jesus was sitting beside you right now,

and he is, he'd look over and go, "I know how you feel. "I have been there and they did it to me too, "and I had to make the same choice. "But I'll go with you. "I'll take care of you, and I'll give you this strength, "not to just forgive today, "but when you get up tomorrow again, "you have to do it again, and the next day again, "every time it raises its head, "because until you allow Jesus to do that in you, "you'll never begin to heal. "You'll just stuff it down, "but it will come out in ways "and on the people that you least want it to land on." Jesus decided to extend forgiveness to us before we asked for it, before we changed anything, before we started doing anything right, while we were still sinners. And I know it feels unfair and impossible. I've got to, I don't know if I can do that, I know. You just gotta not look at the other person, you gotta look at Jesus, dying out across from me was unfair. But where would I be? here's the answer, lost. So, I ask you the question, like is it time to forgive that person? And I can't tell you. There's only one person you should ask.

Ask God. God, do you know everything about what happened? You know what they did? You know what I've done? You know how much I'm hurting? (gentle piano music) What do you want me to do? And whatever he tells you to do is the right answer and it is to step back towards healing, even though it doesn't seem fair or possible. But he wants good for you and your marriage, and your family, and your heart, and your future. He wants you to experience freedom. (gentle piano music) Now we're not talking about marriage anymore, are we? We're talking about everything that's ever happened to us. All at campuses, let's stand up. I got three minutes out. I don't know how that's possible. Oh, we're gonna sing a song, it's a great song. It's the song that's going to come to the altar. His arms are open wide. And a couple weeks ago, we tried this out. If you just need prayer, it's gonna be a prayer team down here, individually that have anything to do with marriage. You can come as a family and come by yourself, whatever that is. And the church, like we just said, we're gonna support, you know, our next end.

We have to take care of one another, pray for one another. And so if you need prayer today during this song or during the last song, then come on up here and let us just pray for you. Let me close the prayer and then we'll sing and go on. God, I pray Jesus over everyone listening to my voice right now, I pray that whatever conversations that are about to happen, that you are in the middle of it, you're protecting it, you're giving wisdom and patience. You're giving us the faith to maybe lower our guard a little bit knowing that it might hurt again. To revisit some of the things that we've stuffed down and don't want to talk about, even though we know it's coming out. So in this moment, Jesus, cover our sins with your blood. Forgive us for our selfish ways and our choices where we let go of you and hell on to something else that did not deliver. In this moment, we're reaching back out to hold on to you. Holy Spirit, will you fill us with what only you can do? You can heal us, you can guide us, you can strengthen us. You give us the right words where we put up a boundary and say, this can't happen anymore, but we're gonna do it because we're fighting for our marriage not pushing anybody away. Jesus, do what only you can do. We come before you and you receive us and you'll walk with us from now on. That's our prayer and our blessing.

In Jesus' name I pray, amen, amen, amen.