James Talarico’s HERETIC Pastor Exposed in Undercover Video (Pastors RESPOND) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

you're going to end up with churches where everybody's welcome but Jesus and anything is accepted except clear Bible teaching. Jesus didn't either say, "You can trust her word or you can just read your Bible." I meet so many people who live with a perpetual fear that they haven't done enough for God. That's right. It's not about what you've done for him. It's about what he did once and for all for you. Well, hey, Liffry Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Liffry Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, "Man, I wish I could be part of something like this." We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now, enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Liffry Podcast. My name is Carlos Araso, and today I'm excited because I'm here with Pastor Josh Howardton and Pastor Paul Cunningham. Hey, you know why I'm excited? What's up, man? I shot an armadillo this morning. Oh. I was really expecting that. Is it illegal? It's not illegal to do that on your property, is it? Is it good? I did. It's illegal. This will be censored. I shot an armadillo this morning for the rifle.

No, so my with my glock. It's good. Oh, OK. Cam, Cam. Even on your property. Yeah, dude. OK, no, no, I just went on. If you're from Louisiana, I'm sorry for all of our people. Well, we were on our breakfast and then he mess with the flock. He mess with the flock. He got the glock. OK, there you go. Oh, man, is this your first time shooting an armadillo? Yeah, I was. OK. Yeah, do you think he bounced around? Well, I'm not going to. Have you ever seen that? They call it the Armadillo jump. Have you guys seen that? I give it a thing. Kim's seen it. OK, that's a thing. If you hit up, why are we talking about that? Sorry, I didn't mean to go on and we're going to talk about the Bible. Yes, we are. Well, we're going to have a good episode today because now that we know that you have shot an armadillo. I do, and the Armadillo and it jumped. You threw me off over here.

We're going to talk about multiple things. Hey, chapter four of Second Timothy. Well, we are in week number eight of five, the Good Fight Sermon series, which was really has been really fun. Well, one of my favorites in a long time. You've done a great job bringing the word. Thank you, man. We're going to be debunking one of the most or some of the most common Christian heresies out there. Five. Yeah, we're doing five, right? Five. Five. So we're going to do most five, most common Christian heresies. We're going to be very careful to define what heresie means. Some of them among a prosperity gospel. Yeah. Yep. Maybe name and claim it. Yes. Oh, yeah, some of them are things that people have been influenced by and they don't know they don't know. That's right. Exactly. That's right. So, yeah. We're going to be also reacting to this viral video of James Tallarico's pastor. Same. Pastrix.

Pastrix. Saying that Jesus did not die for us since actually. Dude, speaking of heresies. Sometimes we like actually just see a Bible verse like float on your screen like brothers. A lot of, I just thought a lot of Bible verses in the bad ones. We'll get to that in a second. It's going to be interesting. Hey, we just came off of a huge celebration. Pastor Josh, would you please tell us what happened? Dude, I never seen anything like it. I still haven't gotten the numbers. I think when it's all said and done, I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going to go out on a limb. I think this weekend we will have ended up baptizing well over 800 people. Just this weekend. I mean, I've never seen anything like it and I do want to say I've, it was, I think it was Jonathan Edwards who talked about how when people are in the middle of a revival, a lot of times they don't know it because they treat holy things like they're common. I just want to remind everybody who, like if you're part of Lake Point, that ain't normal, that ain't normal. It baptized 800 people on a weekend and we had this good. That's a big deal, man. Glory to God. And it's not just a number. This is, these are real people. Can I share like a couple of super quick two stories? Do you want me to do this? Can you pull out the younger kid?

There you go. So he is entering and his story is that at some point he asked Lake Point dad if he could date his daughter and Lake Point dad said, no, you need to come to church with me. And so he went, he invited him. Bro, wait, good job. Like, good job. Shout out. Unsafe kids can't date my daughter. Nope. That's right. So he said, no, I don't want to go to church. And then month later, a friend of Endren, he invited Endren to come to church. And then it turns out it's the same church that he was already invited to. So he went to church, eventually got saved, got into root it, got baptized - Boom. - So let's go. - Wait, but is he dating the daughter? - We shall find out. - That story's ongoing. - That story's ongoing. - We shall find out. - Hey, he's probably watching this right here. So please let us know in the comment section. And we'd love to find out. Here's one more. This is from Roy City Campus. This right here is Ethan right there getting baptized. So Ethan and his wife were not attending church. He randomly found the Roy City Campus,

gets plugged in, started serving in production. And at some point during Baptist and weekend recently, he had a conviction. And I've never been baptized before. And so he said, "Hey, I want to get baptized." So somebody on our team said, "Let me get you a shirt." He says, "No time." We gotta do it now. - Bro, I love it. - So he just like ripped off his cowboy boots. - That's the Ethiopian eunuch. There's some water right now. - Jumped into the water and then got into rooted. And recently he also had the privilege of baptizing his wife as well. - Oh, shout out to Ethan. So again, these are, we have literally thousands of stories. Praise God for that big celebration. - Bro, that's the same. By the way, I just want to clarify that guys are not a eunuch. I just want to say, I just want to, that I know, that I know. - I wasn't confused, but I'm glad you gave me that. - That I know of. - Good clarification. - No wait, can we do a secondary celebration that is not as important or good as baptizing 800 people on the weekend? - What do you got?

- We got to celebrate the Philip Anthony Mitchell episode. - Bro, come on guys. - Dude, first of all, it was such a great episode. I love being there with you. Pop, where were you? - Oh, were you there? - Oh no, he wasn't there. Why would you do it, bro? It was such a brother presence of God in the room. - It just fell. Paul, do you remember, you were supposed to be there. It's like, go ahead. - So, my life is over. - Let me just get this in here. The new Paul's never been to Israel, Joe. Is Paul wasn't there for the Philip Anthony Mitchell episode? - Literally, right before you're filming, I get a call from my daughter's school saying she is throwing up and I was like, my first responsibility, this is the dad, but I'm not gonna lie. I was a little disappointed. Pastor Philip, if you're listening or watching this, please come back as soon as you can. Please come back as soon as we can as this joke will not be long. - No, we need this joke, Joe, let me celebrate real quick. So, first of all, let's just go to that first one. You know, I mean, we're always celebrating a Protestant cast of Reformation days.

So, anytime we get Father Mike, we got to celebrate. By the way, we love our Catholic friends. We love you. This is a sibling rivalry, this is fun. But anytime we get Father Mike for the number one spot, we got to celebrate. And then, dude, so then this morning, I think we'll celebrate it back here, text this. So, on overall, podcasts globally, pumped up this morning, we were at number six. I just wanna say, we're one spot away from Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan, okay. So then, this is like the live free team text thread. This is what we're showing you. So then, somebody said, oh, we're one away from Joe Rogan. Then, somebody text this picture. Which I can't unsee. I'll never unsee that. Nervous Joe Rogan. Nervous Joe Rogan. You've been pretty silent. Ever since that episode dropped? I'm just saying. I'm pretty silent. Joe, if you're listening to your friend, and we'd love to hang some time. And then, I'm gonna have some fun banter even more. Then, this is last night, go to the next one. So, this is top trending podcasts in the globe. It's gross.

It's on planet earth, and we passed. We passed Joe. So, I just wanna point this out. This is on episodes, that one episode. So, I just wanna point this out, man. Like, Lord of God. Lord of God. For at least one day, two dudes talking about Jesus surpassed Joe Rogan for most trending podcasts in the world. And then, hilariously, I'll give you another Sabrina meme. Sabrina, you remember the meme of The Shining, where it's Jack Nicholson getting ready. You know, obviously, none of us have ever seen that movie. - I've never seen it. - You know, obviously, you should never see that movie. - No, ever. - Yeah. But there's a meme that we're all there for. And, where he's coming through the, here's Johnny through the door. - Yeah. - Sabrina sends this. Boom! - That's the way we were. - We burned through the door. - So. - That's amazing. - Again, what I wanna celebrate is for at least a day, two dudes talking about Jesus Christ beating Joe Rogan for the most trending podcasts in the world.

The tide is turning. - And brings God back. - The tide is turning. - I didn't plan on it. Can I share a story or something? - Please do. - Because even to connecting it back to the baptism thing, we celebrate the numbers and we celebrate that. I'm ashamed of it because we wanna get the word of God and help people develop a Christian worldview. And, unashamedly, we wanna do that for as many people as possible. But what encourages the three of us and all of our team behind the scenes, the most is the stories we get. - That's right. - And I could tell countless. Every week. - You got one? - Yeah, I got to meet actually Guy and our lobby this past weekend. He was coming down from El Paso. He was in town for work. But he told me he was like one night, he went to bed praying that God would kill him. 'Cause he didn't wanna face another day. And he's asking that God would take his life the next day. Now we know we know that he believes that God ultimately saved his life But God used this to speak truth him into him and encourage and encouragement into his heart And so you just came up to me this past week and gave me hug I could tell others

I mean there's one person who reached out on social media where she said I was deep into new age thought and practice and Had all these questions and and rejections of the Bible But actually was watching you guys that filled my life a biblical truth and now I'm a believer You get stories like that and that's why it matters I just want to catch people it's like it's not simply about a number or ranking It's because we know at the more that we can reach people with the word of God the more it will change them And so that's what we want to say about the ranking comes and goes Yes, right, right the word of God remains forever. Boom. That's right But can I actually can't do this can't do so I don't want to do this for a long time I'm not gonna. No, I'm not being weird. You got to smile on your face like By the way, you never know what can happen. This is like an actual spiritual thing. I want to make a church history observation Okay, Howard and the other Howard and my buddy Jason Howard and over here. This is not related to me We've talked about this so did I I got a theory on and I'm gonna zoom out and do a little church We're gonna do church history nerd thing for a second. I got theory on something. Okay, so So just go with me on this here's my theory Virtually every great awakening and revival in history is Preceded by some new mechanism or technology being leveraged for the spread of the gospel So bro, I want you to think about this. I'm gonna connect some dust for quick. All right, so first of all, yeah I'm gonna make two points. Okay, just check. So first of all you have the great awakening That's Jonathan at words George Whitfield. Listen to these dates like if you just try to keep these in your head if you're listening First great awakening 1730 to 1740 is when they date it Jonathan at words George Whitfield, okay second great awakening Typically dates 1790 to 1850. That's haystack revival in Kentucky. Shout out Kentucky is where I'm from. That's Charles Finney That's father Nash all the stuff. Okay third great awakening 1910 1900 1910 that's DL Moody I think New York businessman's revival is somewhere around that time and then bro you fast forward again Jesus movement Billy Graham Crusades all that stuff the dates for that are typically 1960 to 1975 All right now, this is where my star sweating a little bit. Let me I'm gonna point out two things one Basically every revival in American history has been spaced almost exactly 50 years apart watch

So first great awakening 1730 1740 fast forward 50 years second great awakening 1790 1850 fast forward 50 years Third great awakening 1900 in 1910 fast forward exactly 50 more years 1960 to 1975 Jesus movement Billy Graham Crusades Carlos and Paul if you fast forward 50 years from about 1975, you know where you're at You had about 2000 25 2026 now This is really fascinating to me. Think about this New technology being leveraged for the spread of the gospel. All right. Check this. I did this little homework this week So the Protestant Reformation Comes right on the heels literally 50 years after the invention and mass production of the printing press So for the first time in history Catholic Church. Sorry Catholics. They can't contain like a doctrinal rebellion for the first time in history Okay, first great awakening George Whitfield He mass popularizes the concept of outdoor preaching and advanced marketing nobody had ever done that before So for the first time in church history, he's getting ready to roll up in a some little town up in Connecticut or wherever he is and For the first time in history thousands of people know he's coming so he can preach to 20,000 people in a field That never happened before so new technology. Okay, third grade awakening DL Moody That's right after the mass production of newspapers. Yeah, that had never happened before in human history Okay, then bro, you go even one more Jesus movement movement and Billy Graham crusades So you got 19, you know 1950 1975 around right there in our 1960s 1975 guess what it just happened? For the first time in American history Every every homes got a TV and a radio So for the first time people like bro, there is and do I'll just say this when I look at stuff like that And you got the number five trending podcast in on planet earth is about Jesus Dude, there's part of me. It's like man. What if for the first time in human history? We figure out how to leverage this thing of like the little stupid podcast world and all this social media stuff that I always used to think was real dumb But now what you're seeing is you're seeing stories walk of dudes walking into churches going I was gonna kill myself and then I turned on a dang podcast heard about the love of Jesus for me So all I'm gonna say is 50 years 50 years 50 years 50 years 2026 you got a new technology and here. I'll just finish with this Habakkuk 3 - oh "O Lord, I have heard the report of you, and your work, O Lord, do I fear." Remember mercy do it again Lord. Why not man? It's right man. Why not that's amazing now

Let me let me I'm gonna pitch the ball back to y'all. You guys did a great episode last week without me. Thank you Oh, thank you. Yeah, you got you got thought what we think Carlos man. It was a Paul did a great job by the way There's one thing that I wouldn't get to get in there, but you know I wish somebody would have taught me this when I first said I read in the Bible Right now we're getting thousands of people reaching out saying hey I'm a brand new believer. I've never read the Bible and I want to I want to start and they're asking questions Like how do you how do I start reading the Bible? Where do I even start? So let me do something real quick. Let me help you for this So if you're if you're that guy if you want to know who Jesus is read the book of John If you want to go deeper in your identity in Christ read the book of Ephesians if you want to learn how to live in holiness in a culture that is godless read the book of first Corinthians If you want to have wisdom in life read the book of Proverbs If you want to know the origin of the universe and understand why everything is so broken today read the book of Genesis If you want to understand the gospel and you want to know what should I believe as a Christian today read the book of Romans if you want to understand life without God and why it is meaningless without him and even if you achieve success status Popularity and more and still if you don't have God life will be meaningless read the book of Ecclesiastes If you want to learn how to find joy in the midst of your suffering if you're going through something difficult right now But you are striving for joy in Christ read the book of Philippians If you want to hear how the church started initially and how the Holy Spirit empowered the church to do the supernatural things That was we're done at the time and we still see those things read the book of Acts If you want to learn how to put your faith into practice Not just say that you believe something but actually live it out read the book of James If you want to learn how to pray with honesty if you're going through something difficult And you want to learn how to bring those emotions to the Lord in prayer read the book of Psalms If you want to see a brief preview of the future of what will happen and you want to hold on to a hold right now Everybody's freaking out about what will happen what could happen? But you want to hold on to the hold that in the future Jesus wins He is still Lord of Lord and King of Kings read the book of Revelation. Here's the point Saint Jerome who was one of the most famous theologians at the time

I think it's eighty three hundred and who by the way translated the Bible to Latin He's someone who wrote the Latin Vulgate Because he wanted other people to have access to it. He said this he said the scriptures are shallow enough for a babe to come and drink without fear of drowning And deep enough for a theologian to swim in without ever touching the bottom Here's the point. You cannot read this book and not have it change your life. It will change you hope that helps That's funny. I'm reading Charles Spurgeon's buyer for right now. Literally last night He basically has a riff on that Jerome quote. I didn't realize it. You just said it Spurgeon's quote was Nobody ever outgrows the scriptures it widens and deepens with years Dude, it's so funny man because like, you know, we've been studying the Bible. If I've been studying the Bible now 30 years Yeah, honestly, it's really weird in some ways. I feel like I know it less Than I did back then because the more you study, it's like you realize how much you didn't know I was usually straight. It's kind of exciting Yes, because honestly like you get to the spot where you're like I could plunge myself into this thing for the next 50 years of my life And i'm still going to have some deep end of the pool things that I get a saver So i'm like, I think i'm fun, man What I love about that and this is true by way of God's word, but then also of God himself theologians if you sometimes use this phrase that God Is infinitely knowable And the idea there is that we can know God for who he truly is But we will never know God fully for who he is because he's infinite And that's not bad news. That's actually good news It means that we can spend the rest of our lives coming to know him through his words, right? And never exhaustive it also means that in heaven We will spend the rest of eternity coming to know God just a little bit more Day-by-day and that's a good thing because think about it. They're now jobs. Sometimes they use it's like if you've ever fallen in love I don't know about you guys but like I'm assuming you fall in love because you're married, but I was very much Preemptively said I was about to say I got the cart before the horse because I don't know about you guys

But what we do when Amy and I first first started to date and fall in love So we're just asking each other questions and it's like the more that's where I was going with that The more we came to know each other my love for her and my appreciation and the joy Deepened the more came to know her and it's amazing that means theologians said you're joy in God and your love for God will only ever Expand for eternity because he's infinitely noble and if that's true if that's gonna happen in eternity Why not start now by coming to know? - Let me send it again to the word, hey, before we do it, that's a cool hat. Pastor Josh, if people are watching. - It's so cool. - And you can spotify. - It's so cool. - Look at this guy. - Man. - Lift free, bro. - It's so cool. - Lift free. If you want that hat, you can get it. So you're gonna get free that shot. - I actually think it's cool. I look like an idiot doing that. I actually do think that's really cool. - Text the word hat to 20411 or go to liftfree.shop. - Be really helpful. 'Cause I personally pocket every dollar to become a millionaire celebrity pastor. So it really helped me. - That's right. - And you're gonna also look as good as he does, right? - Wait, can I just clarify?

'Cause the internet will love that. So I don't get a dollar. I like not one penny when you buy a hat. That just helps us fund the podcast. - Yeah. (laughs) - I'm just saying we're cutting all that out. - Man, when you wear that hat, you not only look more like him, you also like your arms get a little bigger. - Oh, dude. - That's true. - You know. - Wait, can I say one more thing? And then we're actually getting into the word. - You're welcome. - You're welcome. - You're welcome. - So when, you know, when Philip was here, you know, and I asked him to pray for me. Yeah, that was it. You saw this. See, I asked him to pray for me. And he just instinctively reached out his hand. You know, he's like, "Hey, let me pray for ya." Now, what was awesome is one of our team back. There was very kind of them. They actually got a close-up shot of this prayer moment. It was a close-up shot. Here's a close-up shot of--

- Wow. - Look at that. (laughs) - Wow. - Look at the actual-- (laughs) - We did the meme. - That's exactly the same photo for sure. Yeah, that's awesome, bro. - All right, we're-- - Hey, let me ask you a 20-minute sandwich. - Let me ask you this, Pastor Josh. What do you make it to the sermon? - All right, a lot. - I'm just gonna put you to allow it, man. - Oh, wait, ask again. - Hey, can I ask you a question? - Yeah. - What do you make it to the sermon? - I will allow it. - Okay. - Let's keep traditions, traditions. - Now you're going to keep going. - So this is a very emotional sermon to prepare for because what you're doing right here is you're preaching the final words, the Apostle Paul. This is really functionally what you're doing. - Dude. - Actually, hey, Kim, could I? I will actually get a Sprite.

Can I get a Sprite? - Yeah, thank you. There was, so let me set this up real quick, 'cause I'm just gonna read 'em. And if you're listening, I want you to imagine why to read these final words. I want you to imagine this is your spiritual father. Let's say you're a girl, you don't even got a dad. And then the godliest man this ever lived, not named Jesus, just sort of steps forward. And he's like, hey, I wanna be your spiritual dad. I wanna get a read here in a second. Or his final words, he says over you. But dude, I wanna, do you know the story of Michael Carden, Bill Lane? - I don't think so. - Okay, so like, it is not often you see an actual representation of what the Apostle Paul did. All right, so, now for, I'm an 80s baby, but the 90s made me. So for anybody that, Carlos, you're not gonna understand any of this, just roll with me. - Back in, way back in the late 1900s, when, you know, we rode dinosaurs to school. And there, this guy right here, will you go ahead and show that picture of this guy? This guy right here was the most famous musician. Yeah, that guy right there was the most famous Christian musician in the world. Doesn't exactly look like a rock star.

Do you know who that is? Oh, actually, I already said it. You know that it is, Paul. - No. - That's Michael Carden. - Okay. Bro, where were you, come on, bro. - I know, I'm just like six months younger than you. I guess I totally missed it. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We were receiving Curtis Chapman family. We don't know. - All right, all right. - So here's the story. - A Christian artist? - Yeah, Christian artist. Absolutely blew up four million albums sold, 19 number one hits, like the guy he crushed. Michael Carden, later in his life, wrote a book. Show that book real quick. It's about an 80 page book. You can literally read it in one setting. It's called The Walk. - Oh, yeah. - Okay, all right, now check this out. So, and I got a point to this. We're actually, I'm taking you into the scriptures. So Michael Carden tells the story. He goes to Western Kentucky University in Bowling Creek, Kentucky.

Either he's a baby Christian or something like that. And there's a professor there. The guy's name was Bill Lane. He's a Christian professor. Michael walks into his office, asked him a question by the Bible, and Bill Lane just says this. He says, take a walk with me. Michael Carden's freshman year, he starts taking one walk per week with this older senior saint, godly man named Bill Saint. And for the next six years of Michael Carden's life, they take a walk every week, and a godly man who's a spiritual father to Michael Card just walks with him, talks about Jesus, talks about the Bible. All right, now, that's real cool. Affects Michael Carden's life then. Michael Carden moves away from Bowling Green and many years pass. Fast forward, many years. Michael Carden is now a guy that sold 4 million albums. He's had 19 number one hits. And he and his wife, they're grown. They live in Nashville. And Bill Lane is across the country at Seattle Pacific University. And Bill tells Michael-- hadn't talked to him in a long time.

And he says, Michael, I just received a terminal cancer diagnosis. And I just want to call you and tell you. And Michael thought Bill was calling to say goodbye. And Bill said, no, no, no, that's not what I'm calling. Bill said, no, what I'm doing is me and my wife are moving back to Nashville to be close to you. Because the greatest act of my discipleship of you is about to begin. And then he said, I now will show you how a Christian man dies. And he spends the last time of his life taking more walks with Michael Card, showing him how a Christian man dies. Now, when you get to 2 Timothy chapter 4, many years ago, the apostle Paul saw this kid named Timothy. And do you know what he did? He looked at little Timothy and he said, Timothy, walk with me. And for the next 15 years, the apostle Paul walked an estimated 3,000 miles with his little kid, fatherless kid, named Timothy, changed his life. What you have in 2 Timothy chapter 4-- remember this? One of the last things Paul does is he tells Timothy, come to me quickly. He says, I know I'm going to die, come to me quickly. And what the apostle Paul is literally saying to Timothy is he saying, Timothy, I will now show you how a Christian man dies. Now, before I read the final words of the apostle Paul, because he deserves some honor, reverence, glory here, it is the responsibility that we do not talk about very

often in the church. It is the responsibility of every Christian man and woman to show the people around them. This is how a Christian man. This is how a Christian woman dies. And here's what I'll say. That responsibility begins today. We are right now careening towards our deathbeds. And we want to be able to say, like the apostle Paul, my life was poured out and it was worth it. So with that in mind, let me read this. I'm just going to point out a few things people probably wouldn't think about. The final words of the apostle Paul. I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead. And by his appearing and his kingdom, preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke and exhort with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming, this is going to sound familiar. When people will not endure sound teaching or sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. And they will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. But as for you, always be sober minded, endure suffering. Do the work of an evangelist. Fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering and the time of my departure has come.

Now listen, listen, bro. If anything on earth you want to be able to make your final words to your son or spiritual son, verse seven is it. I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. And henceforth there has laid up for me the crown of righteousness with the Lord, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day. And not only to me, but to all who have loved his appearing. I just want to say this. Well done. Good and faithful servant to the Apostle Paul. So let me just point out a few things real quick here. And this can be a weird couple minutes because Paul's talking to a preacher. And so I'm going to just take a second for people who are listening. There's a few things here that I want you to understand in the heart of your preacher, whether you go to Lake Point or any church that hang off this. So let me just do a couple of things real quick. One, he starts going, I charge you in the presence of God in Christ Jesus. What he's doing is he's gone. And you remember who you're working for. And I just want to remind people of this because sometimes people can be real hard on pastors. They can be real hard on them.

There is a danger for pastors. And if you're a fellow pastor, I want to warn you of this danger that especially with kind of this, like a movement that has some really good things in it, but maybe a couple of things could have been different called the Attractional Church Movement. The danger that pastors have is they'll get into this thing I'm trying to attract the people, attract people, attract people. Well, Haman, you remember this like, hey dude, I'm not preaching for people. I'm not standing before people. I charge you in the presence of God and Christ you. I'm working for God. And if you're not careful, Brian, and we're gonna talk about here in a second, cheji paulce is gonna talk about like five common American heresies. And basically, I'm gonna tell you this, almost every single one of them, they begin with a Bible teacher who forgot the fear of God. And he forgot that the person who he's working for, more than any people are Jesus Christ himself, okay? Because if you start with what people want, what people will listen to and what people are attracted to, you're gonna end up with churches where everybody's welcome, but Jesus and anything is accepted, except clear Bible teaching.

So I just wanna like, man, whether you got a like point or you got any other church, I just want you to know this. I'm not preaching for you. I'm preaching to you, I'm not preaching for you. Your pastor's, he's preaching to you. He's not preaching for you. He's preaching for God, okay? And what you gotta do as a preacher, is if you preach the word of God, the word of God attracts the presence of God and the presence of God will attract the people. You just preach the word, man. So he says that. Then, and this is gonna be a little bit weird. Then he goes, hey man, preach the word. I will just say this. People ask us a lot in comments when we get these emails like, "Hey man, how do I know if I'm in a good church?" You know, how do I know, you know, we actually got a pod coming out soon. Now, how do I know I'm at a good church or whether I should leave? There's a lot you could say. Honestly, man, number one, are they preaching the word? - Yeah. - They say, are they preaching the word? Okay, now listen, are they preaching the word? Not somebody's opinion, not a TED talk, not four jokes and three stories and one verse in a poem?

No, no, is that man opening that thing? The sword of the living God and choosing violence. Like honestly, that's like how I think I'm like, I'm gonna open that thing up and choose violence. The Bible calls itself a sword for a reason. And is he preaching the word? And I'll just, dude, I'm gonna defend and encourage pastors a couple of times in this pod. Here's the deal, man. The world has an unspoken agreement with pastors. If you take it easy on us, we'll take it easy on you. And the second you start opening that book and you are willing to preach the entire word of God, what the Apostle Paul calls the whole counsel of God. If you start doing that and you start choosing a little violence every now and then, I'm gonna warn you right now, all hell will break loose. But, so will all of heaven. So the question you're asking is, man, like, okay, am I on a good church? Are they preaching the word, okay? No, they're not preaching some of the word. Are they preaching the word? So I'm gonna give you, actually, this is weird, just go with me here, Carlos. This is not on our little game plan. I'm like, I'm gonna give you one, two, three, four, five. I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you five. I'm gonna give you five tests. If you're sitting in a church like, man,

how do I know if they're preaching a word? I'm not saying this is all you could say. I'm saying, here's five little things to watch out for. Okay, now, here's why I say this. There's a quote that's attributed to Martin Luther. That's a, it's fire. Martin Luther supposedly said, you prior it is for. If I profess to the loudest, yeah, okay. He's supposed to, Martin Luther. If I profess with the loudest voice and the clearest exposition, every portion of the truth of God, except that one little point, which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I might be professing Christ. Listen, where the battle rages, they're the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that one point. Ooh, so bro, that's fire, that's fire, bro. Inject it into my veins. Wow. All right, now listen. So I'm gonna give you five tests 'cause like, what can happen is you can be in a church where somebody opens the book and they read a verse, we're actually gonna, we're gonna show a video at the end

of like an actual heretic who they do. They open a book with leather on the edges of it and they read verses, but they are actually explaining, I'm gonna talk about this more in a second, bro, here's your, I'm not gonna give it away yet. There, yeah, okay, so here's what you're asking, here's five tests, and don't get too legalistic on this, you gotta give grace, like give the benefit of the doubt, look for the ways where, oh, I can see how they were doing that. Like, I hate, it's the most annoying thing ever when everybody starts interpreting all the pastors in the worst possible light and then shooting people who don't exist this dumbest, like we literally have Bible verses, watch out that you do not bite and devour one another, like these are like literal Bible, so quit doing that stupid stuff. But I will say, here's like a couple tests, okay? obvious things if you walk into a church especially in the Northeast or in Austin and there's a pride flag or a BLM flag like to run just get your kids out get you know everybody's run just run okay here's test number two is the gospel clear and here's what I mean by that listen real close it you're not hearing like I'm kind of a mistake you're in need of a life coach you're hearing no no you're a sinner in need of a Savior and real real good news Jesus is better at saving than you aren't sending you know like you need to hear like is the gospel clear you're a wretched black hearted sinner Jesus is a really awesome Savior yes if you if you don't get him you're on a hill like like give me a little fire and brimstone but with a heart that doesn't want you to end up there that's what you're okay number three and this is one like I'm doing things where it's like these are the spots on the battlefield okay are they

clear on gender marriage and sexuality like if you start here's what you're watching out for if you start noticing anytime they're they hit a passage and they're talking about gender marriage and sexuality listen real close and they're actually not explaining what the word says they're explaining away what the word says bro the number of sermons you listen to and they get to that stuff and the sermon is actually explaining away what you just read and not explaining what you just read bro they have more often you think yeah so are they clear on gender marriage and sexuality okay number four do this now just go with me just don't rage at me in the comments until you hear what I'm gonna say the quote here's what I would just gently say are they willing to pastor the women and dude here's why I say this okay now just just go with me all the caveats men and women are equally sinful no one is like men and women equally sinful all the things but I'll just tell you from experience when you preach you know I did that whole eight-week series few years ago act like men you can get up and open that book and yell at men and beat him over the head and you know get your action like you can go hard yeah and dudes and it will get you clap emojis and fire emojis and your sermons will get shared a billion times what can happen by the way what is one thing that is very different about Lake Point is Lake Point when are the opposite of this mm-hmm they are the opposite it is a gift it is a huge gift in fact I'm a brag on I'll brag on this yeah the most viewed sermon I have ever preached at Lake Point is four signs of a god four traits of a godly woman I think that's what's called on YouTube because the women of Lake Point here listen here's my thing I refuse to rob the women of my church of the discipleship they need to become everything God wants them to be mm-hmm so here's what I'm saying this is what can happen for pastors you preach a sermon to dudes you get all the the cheering you give even a gentle admonition to some churches ladies and you just better buckle up you're going you're gonna catch it in the teeth for the whole week mm-hmm so I think you should go man are they willing to pastor everyone and confront the sins of everyone I think that's a legitimate question um last

thing I say here is here's here's your last little test actually two more there's a I call them there's two types of sermons there's come and live sermons and those are the you know Jesus is the water of life and yeah be encouraged fulfill your calling the Lord is for you and then there's go and die sermons mm-hmm go pick up your cross amen do not be surprised at the it's surprise of the world hates you I came to a conviction a few years ago when I was preaching through Jesus warning by the end times where he goes and you will be hated by all you will be hated by all men for my namesake and it was like legitimately a point of conviction where I was like oh I have not done a good job preparing my people to be hated by all men for his namesake mm-hmm so ask yourself the question is am I only hearing come and live sermons or am I also getting to come and die sermons because those are end of book two I think that's one that's great last few things here do they call sin sin yes not a struggle not you know not an illness you know here's what you're watching out for in our culture what people today sin is called sickness so we think it just requires therapy not repentance mm-hmm so there you will sometimes see this where it's like actually you're just always the victim and it's an illness and you just like ah well actually you're the villain you're broken and they even like is in the past and so someone else broke you so we got to dress what other yeah yeah well stuff is bro sometimes it's true it's true it's not it does not mean either or but that's where the print like significant action is on now yeah it's the emphasis is on that that's it the biggest problem in your life I know this is tough man The biggest problem in your life is not that somebody else hurt you Is that you hurt jesus and you are estranged from the living god And you need the gospel and a savior. So do they call sin Sin and then you know last thing I already said it is just listen close When I read tough parts of the word are they explaining it or are they explaining it away? Any any other thoughts their other comments before I move on here what do you got Paul? No, I think really just come around something you said at the beginning as as you're doing that

You use these appropriately in this sense of whatever church you're at or if you're maybe new to an area and you're going around and trying to find your church Look for overall patterns big on look and so in other ways, it's not that big every week They have to do all of those fabrics. I don't it's yeah It's more just look like I like to even I was I did a teaching for our worship team a week or two ago Just on the theology of worship and we're smart man like Christian worship. I'm going to work this should be Christian in other words Man, it should be Trinitarian shaped it should be gospel influence all those things And the point that I kind of made with them that I'd say the same thing as people were evaluating preachers is like hey Over the course of eight weeks and the songs that we sing when people hear the gospel Would they get the idea that god has father son and holy spirit? So in the same way and all those things is like man think over the course of eight to ten weeks Are you hearing those kinds of things consistently such as right? I think that's both a good way to say hey man like to make sure you're at the right church That's preaching the word faithfully, but also we don't want people to go into the other ditch Which is becoming hyper critical of every single sermon We will excommunicate you from live free nation If you become that jerk the jerk for Jesus that ruins every church because that you know it's like that's not our thing Don't do that. So that's just the one that just stay on the road. Don't go into either of those two ditches Yeah, we and we get people come and speak very highly of Lake Point and you know speak very highly obviously of you pester josh But again just to emphasize that I think it is interesting for me coming from a different culture in a different country as well I feel like here in america Men that the honor and respect for pastors is like zero Like generally speaking obviously like when you just go on eggs and what's it? Give me the difference between south america. Yeah. I mean there's at least like if you disagree with somebody man At least you got to recognize man that that man is like trying to labor for the lord And there's some aspect of respect I guess you you maybe this is true in some aspects of like the black church or like, you know, some non-white churches I guess there's at least a level of like man Let me at least call you with a proper title or some sort of like there's a deference to it default honor Yeah, but here or you go on x and like that one pastor that you have you have no visibility over what they're doing You're like taking shots. Like he's your best bud from college and it's like and i'm surprised i'm

You're the greatest enemy from or your greatest enemy. That's right. That's right and and it's just like no respect No honor, no reverence and and and to me again a lot of these pastors. Yeah, if you see somebody that is heretical you call them out Um, but when you see somebody that you just maybe have a slight disagreement in their ministry philosophy Um at least you should you and in fact I think that we are bible versus Um first thessalonians chapter 5 verse 12 says hey respect Those who labor among you and are over you in the lord and admonish you and esteem them very highly in love because of their work Um, I I feel like when I was in college and then you you get all you start reading a bunch of books and you think you know Everything and you don't um then you go to church and be like, well, you're not preaching the gospel as you should right? Yeah, I did that. Uh, you got a repent for that Uh, but but so don't be that guy uh and show them grace, man. The pastor in his heart It's difficult And so so a lot of and again a lot of these pastors that you know, they're figuring it out. That's right where we're learning We're all learning here. Yeah, yeah Uh, man, it's a good word. That's good. That's good. I'm glad you said that So the big headline is chill out bro A couple of things should be your next post on x chill out bro. Yes, all caps Uh, let me just say a couple of other things he talks about priests the word in season and out of season And man, I will just say it's you know, it's really interesting Uh When you go jana and i've spent a little time in europe And you know in season out of season like there's some seasons where it's like mess a little easier grow a tomato than another season Yeah There's some seasons. There's some soil where it's a little easier to grow a coconut tree Upon they call this palm tree Then then so what paul's saying is man, there's gonna be sometimes some places Where uh, hey, dude, you can have all the right fertilizer you can be doing all the things You can give it all your energy you can water it on the right schedule and bro you you can get very little fruit There's gonna be some seasons like that, you know, if you go to europe Uh, like we just talked about martin lutheran priseman reformation. You got a germany I looked this up this week. There was a time where the greatest revival in the world was happening in germany today

It's 1.7 percent bible believe in christian. Uh, we preach through revelation two and three letters of seven churches Uh, that was literally the global staging ground for the move of god in the entire world in the first century. Today, you're gonna go there. It's less than 1% Bible, I believe in Christian. And you know, you're so different things. What he's saying is, hey man, don't matter. Like you just keep doing your thing. Maybe your workplace looks a little different. Feels a little different. That's all right. You know, in season out of season, you can just keep being face-led. Couple other things I'll say. And dude, let me just, yeah man. Let me get one last thing here. One of the great questions of this passage is how can a man who spent more than half of his life hating God, murdering Christians and blaspheming Christ? How can that guy say, you know what? I fought a good fight, I ran a good race. And dude, I actually, this is like my favorite part about the passage. What some Christians will do, this is a great little watch out. What some Christians will do is they'll mess up that stuff in their life. Or people who are not Christians, they'll go, man, you know what I mean? I need a second chance.

And you'll honestly, and well-meaning Christians, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Let's talk about he's the God of second chances. And in one sense, I kind of get what you're saying. But in another sense, I'm like, bro, you don't need a second chance. I'm like, if he gave you a second chance, you're gonna screw that one up too. Yeah, out of the firing pan, into the fire, out of the food addiction, into the porn addiction, you know, whatever it is. You're gonna screw that one up too. You don't need a second chance. Here's the analogy I like to use. We have, I got three very, very smart kids. Not all them are awesome at math. Okay. If I gave, and I'm not saying she's the one, but if somebody put a calculus two exam in front of my 15-year-old Eliana, bro, I'm just gonna tell you. It don't matter how many chances you give her. She's not gonna do, she's not gonna pass the test. She's gonna fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. How many chances you get? So listen, listen, listen, I love this. What she doesn't need is a second chance. What she needs is a substitute. She needs somebody,

she needs somebody who can walk in the room and say, hey, get up and let me take that test for ya. And sit down and they can ace the thing. And what Jesus Christ did when he came to this planet, is he looked at all of us screw ups, all of us rough around the edges. There's guys that are listening to you're behind some bars in a correctional facility. And he looked at us and he was like, hey man, it really don't matter how many chances I give you, you're gonna screw that one up too. Why do you let me step in and take the test for ya? And then he came and he lived the perfect life that we could not live, died the death that we deserved. And God made him who knew no sin to be sinned for us. If that in him, we might become the righteousness of God. So I got a buddy that says like this, he says, this is so free, he says, in the Christian life, there are no second chances. There's just the blood of Jesus and from now on. - Oh, wow. (laughs) - Wow. - And what he's saying, dude, is so let's go back to the original question. How can a guy who spends more than half of his life murdering Christians and blaspheming Christ to get the end of his life and say, you know what man? Fought a good fight, ran a good race. Well, here's why. (laughs) Because the Apostle Paul could also say,

I, the old me, have been crucified with Christ. - Yeah. - And it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Come on, man. (laughs) That's awesome. - The only one who is in Christ is a new Christian. - New creation. - New creation. - New creation. - New creation. - Past and the new is coming. - Dude is the best. - Cool. - Last couple of things. And then I want you to do five most common, because there are, here's why we're doing this. - Ralph, can I interrupt? - Police. I was just notified right now over here on my fake headphones. That, uh, that readjust surpassed Joe Rogan. (laughs) I too, bro. - Did we really? - We were up right there. - Literally during the fight? - Like right now. - Hang it in the lube. (laughs) Hang it in the lube. - We're gonna put it right here in the wall over here. - Come over here. - Listen. - It's a little bit smaller in this picture now. - Go team Jesus, go. - Amen. - We prayed for this. - We did it. - We did it. - We did it. - We did it.

- We did it. - We did it. - That's awesome. - We did it again. - We're, we got, well, we're gonna frame it. And just-- - Some things only happen through prayer and fasting. - This is probably might be one of those. - Boom! - That's amazing. Listen, you know who gets the shout out there? Live free nation. - That's right. - That's right. - Live free nation. - That's exactly right. - You just toppled Joe Rogan-- - Wow. - For most listened podcasts in the world. - That's amazing. - That's insane. That's insane. So let's keep talking about Jesus. (laughs) So here in a second, you're gonna do, I want you to do five most common heresies in American culture. - Yep. - There's a bunch of them that people may have actually been influenced by. They don't know it. - Exactly. - And we're gonna get a bunch of caveats. So you don't become a jerk for Jesus to start shooting people who don't need to be shot. - That's right. - But I do want to say this. Hey, live free nation, let's have fun with this and swing some elections.

In all seriousness, midterm elections are obviously coming up in November. In the state of Texas, there's an-- and the midterm elections coming up in November will be decided by a predicted, actually, about 300,000 votes. So, what this means is if Christians do their job as salt and light in the world, good things really easily happen. So, what we've done at Live Free Nation is we actually built a website to help mobilize Christians to do our job as salt and light in society. So, you can simply text the word "vote" to the number 20411, text the word "vote" to 20411, and we have built a website all at our own expense to help Christians remember to vote leading up into the midterms because the number one reason that Christians don't vote, especially in midterm elections, is they just forgot. So, with one text, "vote" to 20411, you will get one text, which is a link to the website where you can put in your address. We do not keep any of the information, and it will tell you where the polling location is for voting in your area, when to come, and what in your area you need to bring. Again, we keep absolutely none of the data, and we will send you that text,

and then only one other reminder text right before midterms. So, let's have some fun with this. Text "vote" to 20411, and we'll see what Live Free Nation can do. So, here's the lead-in to what Paul's about to do. So, Paul says, so, Chaji Paul sees who I'm talking about, now I'm talking about the Apostle Paul. So, the Apostle Paul, he does this thing, and he goes, hey, he goes, hey, here, watch out. Listen, listen, watch out. The time's coming when people will not endure sound teaching, most translations say sound doctrine, it's the same word. But, watching, itching ears, this is really helpful. He says, having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves, teachers to suit their own passions, okay? So, itching ears, listen, here's what I'm saying. He's saying, there's a type of person, and if you're listening to this right now, this could be you, and you don't even know it's you, and you need to make sure it's not you. Because if it's you, you're gonna put yourself under Bible teaching, that is gonna be awful for you, awful for your family, and if it's especially certain kinds of Bible teaching, it's gonna lead your family to hell. So, what he's saying is, watch out. There's a certain type of person, they don't want the truth.

They just want relief. So, here's what he's going, itching ears, you ever had like a real, like Carlos, did they have the, do you ever have chicken pox, or did? - Yeah, we do, actually, and I actually had it. - Oh, did you, okay. - I actually had it, yeah. - 'Cause now they got a vaccine, and people don't give it. - I guess the technology we didn't have at the time, I suppose, but did you have it? - Yeah. - Okay, did you have it? - Yeah, literally everyone. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just to write a message. - Like, this new generation, though, like my wife didn't have it. - Kids these days. - Oh, yeah. (laughing) - Kids these days was wrong with society. - When you got like a terrible itch, think about it. You got a terrible itch. It's just like, it won't go away. - Like, your kids are not gonna have it, right? - No, they won't have it. They got a vaccine now, I think. So, you've got a really, really terrible itch. You'll like, you'll do anything to relieve the feeling. What he's saying is, you better watch out, because if you let a desire, that start as a foothold become a stronghold in your life, and it becomes chokehold,

he's saying that desire will become so big in you. Watch, watch, watch. You'll eventually get to the spot where you don't wanna preach what tells you truth. You just wanna preach your, who gives you relief from the feelings of guilt you have for satisfying that sinful desire. He's going, "You better watch out." Because the time will come when, in another epistle he says, "Their God is their belly." They glory in their destruction is what he's saying. He's saying that all they care about is their appetites and desires, okay? So, then what people do, watch, they'll say stuff like this, and dude, if you're doing this, I'm praying the Holy Spirit right now, graciously in his love for you, shows you that's what you're doing. So, you can run, man, run, and get somewhere where you can get the word of God. What people start doing is they start going, "I don't like that pastor, 'cause he said I was wrong." And I do like that pastor, 'cause he said I was right. Okay, well listen, bro, if that's you, you're not even looking for the truth. You're just looking for somebody who will tell you what you wanna hear. So, what you're watching out for is watch. The order with which you listen to Bible teachers, it's about order.

Itching ears, it starts with my desires, and you're willing to change what word you will hear to make your desires feel better. People who are like actual disciples, what they do, is they start with what the word of God says, and they let it change their desires to make them more godly. So, there's this famous, and it's actually really, really mean. It's actually savage. There's this famous story about Tim Keller, who's hugging Jesus, to shout out Tim Keller, can't wait to come hug you in heaven. Where he tells the story, it's very savage. Where college students would come back, you remember, you know what I'm talking about? College students come back from college, and like, "Man pastor, I'm deconstructing my faith." "Man pastor, I'm just, I'm rethinking religion and god." And Tim Keller, this is so savage, Tim Keller would go, "Oh, let me ask you a question, who you sleeping with." (laughing) He was like, his point was like 95% of the time. that they were willing to change what word of God they were willing to hear. That's what Paul's talking about when he goes, the time's gonna come when people won't put up with sound teaching. They'll have itching ears and they'll just go find whatever a Bible teacher will affirm whatever desires they have.

And I'm just gonna tell you right now, bro, I'm gonna tell you right now. I don't care what weird, deranged, gross thing you believe desire and do. I don't care what it is. You can find some Bible teacher on the internet somewhere who's got more degrees than Fahrenheit, who will spend all their time explaining away what the word of God says instead of explaining to you what the word of God says. And if that's you, you have itching ears and you're not putting up with sound teaching. - Interfax. - Now, Paul, why don't you tell us five itching ear thing? So here's the one to do is we just wanna help disciple people. I'm gonna give a very strong caveat. - Yes. - The whole thing we were talking about earlier, there's more verses in the New Testament about, hey man, preserve unity. Watch out that you do not bite and devour one another, all the things. There is a difference between, I disagree with that Christian on a doctrinal issue and they're a false teacher, a wolf and a heretic. Those are different things. - That's right. - So what we're gonna do right now is five comments. Do you wanna use the word heresies? Is that the right word?

- I think it could be false teachings. And then within these, there could be levels of heresies. I even think in a second, I'm gonna kinda lay out what heresies is not and what it is and kinda just give some cabbas. 'Cause I think, for example, I'll go to say one thing, it's not every disagreement amongst Christians is heresies. - Heck no. - It's like one thing that drives me crazy, for example, is like we got into this a few weeks ago on the podcast on Calvinism on Arminianism. And oftentimes, I'll see them call each other heritage. - That's so dumb. - It's so stupid because there are certain things that faithful Bible-belief and Christians have simply disagreed over because the Bible presents some tensions. And just because we disagree doesn't mean you're a heritage. And so we gotta be really clear on that, but I'm gonna give some cabbas, but I think like, what we wanna do is say, here are five of the more common ones. It's not exhaustive and that we're not listing all of them. We're just giving five. And we could do an episode on each of these. So just know as we're walking through them, we can't give everything. We're just gonna kinda give some basics, but before I jump in and even to those,

okay, if I give some more of the feel of their cabbas, here's the thing, I say is false teaching is the broader category. You can have false teaching that is dangerous, that you do wanna avoid and run from. But if we say heresy, heresy is really more like, hey, they're attacking a level one issue. And a level one would be like, who is God? The trendy, the divinity of Jesus, the reality of the resurrection where, hey, if you disagree or teach false things on that, we have a different faith. It's not that we disagree to disagree. We have a different faith. And it's a different level with error. That being said, do you guys actually know what the word heresy actually means? - I actually don't do it. - I have a theory. - What's your theory? - Heterodox. - Okay, it's kinda as opposed to orthodox, ortho means straight, hetero means crooked. - It can, but it also literally the original. - Man, this is not about that, Carlos. - Well, actually, it's going to here in a minute. I wrote a book on heresy I won't buy, that's what I said. - Oh, all right.

- Yeah. - Did you really? - I did. - What was it called? - Do you not remember? - No, it was called, it was called heresy. - Oh. (laughing) - By GK Chesterton? - Who? - By GK Chesterton? - No, no, he said he wrote a book. - No, no, no, I read a book. - Oh, no, I read a book. - He has read. - He doesn't remember the title of the book. - Did you use A.I? - No, no, I read a book. I did not write a book on heresy. I wrote it. - GK Chesterton, heresy? - Ah, no, it was another field. Let me look up here. - GK Chesterton. - I'm gonna quote him in a second. - A wonderful Catholic flavor. - He's a stud. - What was Alistair McGrath? - Alistair. - Oh, Alistair.

- Oh, Alistair. - Oh, Alistair. - Another one on heresy. - Go ahead. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's good. - Oh, okay. - Okay. - Wow, where have we gone now? - Oh, yeah. So literally in the original idea of heresy, it can just mean a choice of beliefs or a choice, or I'm gonna take something for myself. So the idea is instead of receiving what the Bible clearly teaches and what the church across all time and all over the world has consistently taught, I'm going to choose to adopt a different set of beliefs that either contradicts or distorts what the word clearly says or Christian history clearly says. So that's the idea. Part also of heresy, really of any false teaching, I love how GK Chesterton once said, he says it's a truth that hides all the other truths. So a big idea of false teaching of heresy is even when I go through some of these, I'm gonna describe some of their beliefs and some of them is because they actually take some truths from scripture, but then they either deny or distort the other truths that counterbalance it. So that's even another way to think of heresy

is every heresy is an orthodox belief, a right belief that's lost its counterpoint. So in the early church, for example, on Jesus, it was like, some people were like, "Oh, he's fully God." So he was fully God, but they lost the counterpoint that held it in tension with each other. Same thing in these, and we're going through these. Kind of what I wanna do is basically, we'll list the hair scene, then I think you-- - We have a meme for each. - Yeah, I think we have that a meme for each. - It's a secret talent of mine, go ahead. - So we'll list what I wanna do. - What did you create these memes? - Sam, 'cause I couldn't find a good one. - Really? - Well, we needed a good illustration for the plot, so I'm like, if you don't find it, you gotta create it. - I'm so impressed. - Hey, man, I guess, thank you for being impressed with my meme-creating abilities, so you'll have fun. - So for each of these, I wanna list it, and then what I wanna do is a few things. Number one, I'm basically gonna say, hey, this is the core of what it believes after we show the meme, some distinctive marks and beliefs. And then I actually wanna highlight, hey, here are some truths that it actually kind of gets right. Here are some things that it's drawing on,

but then I wanna emphasize, hey, here's what it leaves out, and here's why it's dangerous and wrong. And I also wanna distinguish of, hey, here are some things that are simply false teaching, but then here are some things, but then these that if you believe it's outright Harrison, when we say Harrison, basically we're saying, hey, if you teach these or if you believe these and don't repent from these, it's damn valuable. - Yeah, it's damnable. We have a different faith kind of thing. Does that make sense? - Yeah, let's go. - So can I call for, are you ready? - Yeah. - All right, are you ready? - Yeah. - All right, let's go. - Harrison, I don't know where he's gone. - Yeah. - So, all right, Chadgy Paulsey? - Yeah. - Hercy, number one. - Hercy, false teaching, number one, prosperity theology. - Ooh, okay. - Prosperity theology. - No, man, we got a meme here. It says, prosperity gospel teachers, if you have enough faith, you won't suffer the apostle Paul in the face.

- Now, I'm gonna, wait, I'm gonna give caveats, because again, here's the caveat. There are people who teach things that there are actual Bible verses that sound like that. So you have to really clearly understand what Paul is saying and what he's not saying. - I'm so sorry. - This is really important. - I'm so glad you gave it. Okay, like before we jump in, this is something I should've even said earlier, is that we do have to be careful, because sometimes because they draw on truths from scripture, people will hear someone that may be in that particular sermon or teaching, emphasizing one of those truths, and then because maybe we've heard it falsely, don't know whatsoever, like, oh, you must be a prosperity teacher, or oh, you must be one of those well-progressive prisons. We have to be very careful and generous, and not judge people based on a 10 second clip from a sermon or just anything like that. All right, prosperity theology, here's the idea. God wants his children to have fullness and blessing, materially and financially, in their health and in their relationships. And if you have enough faith, and even if you're willing to give money, you can have that.

And if you don't have those things, it actually is a good sign that you don't have enough. - There you go. - And so the idea is even like, if you can go to an extreme, Christ's death is sometimes said to guarantee, not merely our final resurrection and redemption, but it guarantees our present physical healing and material prosperity. So if you don't have those things, you are not leaning into the blessings that Jesus Christ died to give you. Now, the thing is, is that it kind of leans into some truths that we do see in scripture. - This is really important, man. - Because, for example, God really does provide. - That's right. - It says that if we ask him, he can provide for us. And Deuteronomy 8, it says that God can give wealth. Material provision is generally a gift from God. It's legitimate to pray for your needs and to pray for your health and to pray for your relationships. What this gets wrong is basically we're equates God's blessing to material prosperity. And if you don't have that, yeah. - Almost only material prosperity. And here's the other thing I've stated. - Because material prosperity can be one way God bless you. - Exactly. 'Cause here, it may be even cut into the chase.

Here's to just show why this is wrong. Any theology that would exclude the Son of God from qualifying it is generally a pretty crappy theology. Here's what I mean. Did Jesus Christ have fullness in his health at all times? - No. - He died. - Yeah. Did Jesus Christ have fullness in his riches and in his wealth? - Nope. - No, he said, "I have no place to lay my head." Did he have fullness in all of his relationships? No. His own family called him crazy at one point and one of his best friends betrayed him. And so literally, if you're definition good. - He had fullness of faith at all times. - Exactly. And so that's the thing. So basically, if you're looking at Jesus, you have to say, well, hey, he didn't have that. So I guess he didn't have enough faith. And so the danger, so while there are some things that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, we do want to say God does provide and we should ask him for things. But we're out. He's a good dad who knows how to give good gifts to his kids. We also need to be careful that we turn the freedom to bless,

the freedom of God to bless, to the promise of blessing that corresponds with our faith or with us giving to God. 'Cause what you often hear, and they even maybe give you some phrases that maybe people have heard in this. If you will give $1,000, they'll often call it a seed gift of faith. If you'll give $1,000 to God, he'll give you $10,000 in return. - Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, that's just lie. - It's a lie. - You're not prophesying, you're prophesying. We've got to be careful. And this is where I would say it elevates it to really the level of heresy. When you're basically saying that Jesus died to give you wealth and to give you physical wholeness, when actually he died to forgive you of your sins, to take away your judgment and to reckon it's always God, you've twisted the gospel. Anything that you guys would hit on this or anything that I left out? - Yeah, there's a couple of little things. What's really interesting is actually in one sense, Jesus did die for you to have prosperity. He did die for you to have your best life later. - Yeah, exactly. - And so, man, what I'm driving at, here's a line. Here's where I go, man, a line,

because you will hear people lean into, by the way, actual Bible promises that do actually say that man thinks like, seek first, can you divide it? And then all these things will be added to you. Press down, shake it together, overflowing. Second Corinthians eight and nine talking about, man, as you give, you'll be blessed in every way to do that. There are actual Bible promises, like, man, God does respond in blessing when you get, yes. Here's your line, here's your line. If you start hearing things like, man, if you don't have material prosperity, it's because you didn't have enough faith. If you didn't get healed, it's because you didn't have enough faith. That's where we've crossed the line into something that is kind of heterodox, yes? - Yes, we would say, do not confuse the prosperity gospel with the promises of the gospel. - Bingo. - Exactly. - That's great promise. - Can God, and again, I'm bringing here for somebody that may be, you know, somebody could be like, well, you guys are financially well-off or whatever. You guys seem to be healthy, even if you're not in a spot like that, is God a provider of financial means? Like, yes, he's owner of everything. Is he a healer?

Yes, is he, Jesus talked about the abundant life? Yes, he did, but when wealth, health, prosperity, success becomes the ultimate treasure. That's a problem. Jesus is your ultimate treasure. And so we are grateful for what comes from God's hands, but ultimately we do not neglect to seek God's face. - There you go. - That's so good. That's so good. - All right, number two, what do we got? - All right, this is gonna be a fun one, 'cause there's some nuances to it. And there's a range, range of beliefs. Word of faith theology, maybe everybody. Where's our meme? - We got a meme over here. That's me, and by that I mean the guy over there. Not my will, but yours be done is the girlfriend, and then the other girl is name it, claim it, declare it. - Let me just say, you gotta be on YouTube to see these, that's hilarious. - If you're just listed, you probably should go pause and like go find the video, 'cause this is great. - By the way, I just wanna say this, be a one woman man with your eyes. - That's exactly right. There you go. All right, what you got. - So the basic idea of word of faith is that a believer can bring about their desired reality into being through manifestation,

through faith and faith-filled words specifically. This really caught on with a guy named Kenneth Hagin in the 1960s, and he emphasized the idea of speaking words of faith as a way to manifest health and wealth and other blessings. So you can see some of this is overlapping with prosperity theology. They are a little bit different, but they're still correlation. But the idea here is that a huge emphasis putting on the idea between the logos, the written word, and remo, which is a spoken word. So you often hear, if you hear people spoken, the idea of the remo word. It's not a definite sign, but it couldn't be a tell-to sign that you're listening to a word of faith preacher. - Yeah, and I'll give a heavy caveat there. 'Cause I know it tons of very faithful, charismatic Bible teachers that'll talk about remo versus chyros, and they're not this. - And they're not, and that's what you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful. And so oftentimes this would be something that people call it, and this is what leaning into the meme, a name it and claim it theology. So for example, if someone will say, "Well, man, don't say I have cancer," because in your exceptional reality, you gotta speak healing over your life, and you gotta claim it.

And listen, again, part of this is leaning into stuff that is in scripture. Faith matters enormously in scripture, and the idea of faith expressed through expectation. It's hard to say that I'm having faith in God if I'm not expecting anything from God. Expectation is a form of faith. I mean, you see in scripture, the idea in the book of Mark, it says Jesus could not, not decided not, but he could not do many miracles because the people in particular town did not have faith. So, man, faith matters enormously. And by the way, we should pray boldly. - That's right. - So, man, those are important things, but where this gets out of line is the simple idea that I can manifest a reality into existence by simply speaking in into existence. Faith is not a force by which I impose my will upon reality. - That's right. - Faith is trust in God who rules reality. - Dude, here's how I like to say this. So the anchor verse for some word of faith guys is the, I think it's a proverb, 17, life and death. - Yes. - 1821, life and death is in the power of the tongue. Okay, so first of all, let's acknowledge something is true. That verse is true. this is really, really important, okay? So what we're not, listen, here's the difference.

We're not saying, man, your words have so much power that you can get God to agree with your words. Here's what we are saying. There is power in getting your words to agree with God. - Exactly. - That's where the power is. - Yes, exactly. In prayer, we can both say, I know you can, and I pray you will, and say your will be done. - There you go. - And so when Jesus prayed in the garden, and they said, if you will, take cover me, but not my will, but yours. He was praying in biblical prayer. He didn't like faith. The apostle Paul prayed three times that God would remove a thorn from his flesh, and he didn't. It's not because he lacked faith though. He asked, and God said, no. So the idea, I'd say the danger, the false teaching part is the idea of it's about me and what I want. When the right posture towards God is saying, man, I'm gonna bring to my request. I'm gonna have faith that you respond, but it's not primarily what I want. It's about what you want. Now, let me do give a few places where this can go from harmful or false teaching

in the outright heresy. There are some lines of thinking in the word of faith movement, which again, that's a very broad term, and sometimes I'm glad you point out, sometimes people think that all Charismatics are extreme word of faith people. - That's false. - It's simply false and not true. But it can't cross, there are some elements in word of faith teaching that basically believes that we are little gods. Kenneth Copeland's famous-- - What's that mean? I don't even know what that means. I've heard that before. What the heck's that even mean? - It sounds really great. - It's a weird thing to say. - Well, and even like the way Kenneth Copeland said, it's like, you don't have a god in you, you are a little god. When it gets that level, that at that point is probably at that point, I would say is level one heresy, and you've gotta run for the hills. Man, we do have the living god inside of us by the Holy Spirit, but we are not little gods. Also, I'd say you gotta be watch out for us.

Almost like basically, it can makes God sound like he has to do whatever you want him to do if you have enough faith. And basically, you're making him your servant and him your vending machine, and that's where this can really get out of line. Let me give one more. I think this is where I wanna lie again. - I have enough stuff from this interesting to me. - To your point, sorry Paul. So Jesus, in John 1034, sights an ultrasound verse from Psalm 82 verse six, it says, "You are gods." And again, when he does that, you wanna explain it? - No, you keep going. I think you're gonna say what I'm gonna say. - When he does that, he's not implying that you and I share in some sort of divine nature. He is speaking to an authority sense. So again, I don't know if that's where these preachers get that, but again, it's one, it's confusing too, not helpful. Three, if it implies that there is some sort of divine sharing in the divine, it's just wrong and heretical. - It's just thinkin' weird. - It's just thinkin' weird. - I do wanna warn about a subgroup. Again, this is not all, it's not the king, 'cause that's part of some of these, it's helpful to say some of these are a spectrum of beliefs.

Is there is a group called N-A-R or NAR or the New Apostolic Reformation? This is not an official denomination. You've never heard of them? - Never heard of them. - Never, that's a joke, go ahead. - There's a lot. - Go ahead. - There's a lot of goings, 'cause three of us wanna make with each other right now, but we're not going to. It's not an official denomination, but it's kind of a group and basically their idea is this, is that, man, their reformation is the idea of God never meant for the official office of apostle to go out. And so the idea-- - Big A, capital A, apostle. - Big A, capital A, so the idea is that God is raising up apostles who have the same authority as Peter and Paul and the other apostles. - Yeah, bro, if you're here somebody said, "Run for the hills, run for the hills." - Because not all, but many who refer to themselves as apostles basically say that their commands and their authority are on level with the apostle Paul and Peter, and therefore begin to kind of encroach upon the level of authority of scripture. - Yeah, bro, we got Bible verses for that.

We are delivering to you the message of God, quote, once and for all delivered to the saints. And nobody received in any revelation on par with the authority of scripture anymore, sorry. - That's exactly right. - Run for the hills. - Yeah, these guys start basically saying, "Hey, what I say to you is on par with scripture." Or they'll say, "Well, hey, let me explain what scripture says and their interpretation is authoritative." So frankly, this wouldn't be a guy who's gnar, but this is what Joseph Smith did that started Mormonism. He would take scripture and basically he referred himself at one point as a new apostle, basically, and said, "Hey, this is actually, "Hey, you guys got this wrong. "This doesn't mean that this means "there are three separate gods." And stuff like that. - You never go. - Run for the hills. - You never go full Mormonism. - That's right. - That's right. - That's right. - All right. - That's another meme. - We ready for the third one. - Was it number three? - Number three. - All right, this would be a fun one. - I don't know where you're going. - You're going to be like progressive Christianity. - Oh, okay, yeah.

- Progressive Christianity. - Give us a guy, I don't always follow the Bible, but when I do, it's the part I already agree with. - That's hilarious right there. - That's hilarious. - That's hilarious. - What's the truth, man? - Okay, for this one, if you can't. This one covers a wide range of beliefs. There isn't necessarily unanimity between all the people who could be lumped in as progressive Christians or world Christians, but let me summarize it with a few core beliefs that they would have in common. Number one, the Bible is no longer the final one. ancient people's experiences and beliefs about God, but not necessarily as God's words themselves to us and what God himself is saying to us. The Bible can be respected, quoted, or preached from, but here's the key. If Scripture conflicts with modern beliefs about God or about any kind of ethics or whatsoever sexuality, we don't go with what the Bible says, we go with what we say. We had to only once, and I won't use the name. Maybe I should. We kicked, it's the only guy we've ever had to do this. We had to kick, we had to remove a guy from strategic launch, our church plan network, who became an actually biblically defined heretic. And this was the, this was the heresy. And it was that, and it was really interesting. I got into a rather heated conversation one time. And here's a question I asked. I said, what is the difference between your ethics and the ethics of any secular humanist? And he could not give me a single difference. So do the big thing, you're going to talk more about this for a second. Yeah, big thing about progressive Christianity is they will hollow out your religion and wear it like a skin suit. Exactly. This was my very next point is that they'll often use the same Christian words and the same Bible words that we use, but their meanings drastically change. Well, I know we're going to respond to a video in the latter half of this, and we'll definitely get into this now. So they'll use words like the gospel or salvation or sin or resurrection, but they'll radically redefine those. So the resurrection, ah, that doesn't actually mean that Jesus literally roasts from the grave. It's just

the resurrection of our faith. Sin becomes not so much about what I do, but what's done to me. Or it's just the oppression of the poor. It's just what I do to others. Sin is not for first and foremost, what I do against God is what I do against other people. Jesus is primarily example, rather than a savior from sin, radical redefinition of sexual ethics. And here's a big one is that in progressive Christianity, Jesus is no longer necessarily the only way to God. Never ever ever. He's a good example. Hey, if Jesus makes sure I've better, but you know what? Hey, if someone sincerely believes in Allah, if someone's sincerely a Buddhist, that's great. There's many paths and many ways that you can get to God. John Mark Comer one time who was a pastor up in Portland for a long time, he wisely, you know, he wisely one time because here's what happened. Some people, they grew up in a church like ours, probably leaving church, you know, the whole word for the whole thing. And, uh, and then they go to, they go to college there, by the way, parents, please stop paying to send your kids to organizations whose entire goal is to reverse and undeciple your kids. Let's not do that. So then they do that. And then, so then they become, so what they do is they go from Bible believing Christian to progressive Christian. And so he was up in Portland. This is like what he was surrounded by. And here's what he said. He said, in my experience, uh, progressive Christianity is just a stopover on the way to post Christianity. Oh, 100%. It's just, it basically, hey, man, you're just deconverting. Yep. You're just crockpot deconverting instead of light switch deconverting. Yep. So here's why I'll summarize this and I want you to move the fourth one so we keep moving on. Here's what you're going to notice. It redefines. So it redefines sin, salvation, and redemption, uh, and atonement, sin, salvation, redemption, and atonement. So in progressive Christianity, the problem is not sin. The problem is social injustice, inequity in the system. The solution is not repentance and atonement. The solution is social justice activism. They practice tolerance of sin, not repentance of sin. Uh, Jesus did not die for your sins as a penal substitutionary time or using theology word, nerd words there. Jesus didn't die as a penal substitution for your sins. He was really just an example of another victim of social injustice in the evil Roman empire. And he died as an example of speaking truth to power, social justice activism. And discipleship isn't actual discipleship. It's more just like vote, vote left and protest things. Yeah. And like put bumper stickers on your car and yell at people and say, do better. Yep. Not Christianity. Not Christianity. All right. Number four. All right. So the first three were primarily things that you could find in specific churches and nominations, probably more, a spouse

from the pulpit or from the stage. The next two can be those for sure, but they're actually found across many churches and are probably more predominant in the seats and the pews than in the pulpit. Wow. And so the next one, I'll get the first one for it. Works based Christianity. Yeah, it is. Works based Christianity. Here's me. This is a man choosing one or the other. Having a hard time. One of the options says, Jesus said, it is finished and the other option says, but maybe if I read my Bible 30 more minutes, God will love me more. The allergy nerd humor. Oh, Denise, did you create that one? I did. You created that one. I think I had it. I felt, I felt you. I'm trying to illustrate what everybody's going to say. I thought it was great. It was great. I felt you on that one. That was good. So here's the core thing and again This is this sneaks not in just naturally to the pulpit But just into the into the people's minds and hearts that are just sitting in almost any church And it's this yeah, my standing before God depends wholly or partly on what I do for God rather than what he has done for me There you go. That's the core of this is you over here. That's the core of this We like people who think this thing Hey man, God's love for me and his acceptance of me depends wholly or partly on what I do for him rather than What he did for me through Jesus Christ in the cross. That is the heart of this now this looks I think like two versions There's a religious version which is yeah, I'm saved because I believe in Jesus, but now it's on me I've got to get my stuff together. It's like instead of it just being grace period I'm giving a grace period like I'll give God gives me grace But then I got to give my stuff together and live a good life for him to keep him loving me. It sounds like this I'm saved by I get God's love by faith But I got to keep God's love by works. Yes, but then exactly then I would say there's actually a much more common version That's outside of the church. That is this I call it nice person justification I am saved if I'm a generally good and nice person like if I'm a really good person I don't kill anyone I think when I die the good way the bad this stuff man and here's what actually some of this gets right man Your life does matter how you live does matter like I mean Ephesians 2 says that we are not saved by works But it does say we are sort for works So that's the key to things when we don't want make people think like oh I can confess Jesus walk the aisle when I'm

Six and now live like heaven until I go. I mean live like hell until I go to heaven We don't want to make people think that but rather we got to get the order right I am not saved by what I do and by works, but I am saved for good work You want to move to the fifth one or the whole point of the gospel? It is grace. I've heard somebody said that grace means God's riches at Christ's expense That's right and so it's not your expense. It's Christ's expense. That's why there's hope There's the thing I like to do. I love doing this in sermons so about hey Pick a number in your head on scale one to ten if you're a Christian how much is God love you right now? Mm-hmm, and I get really the answer is it's always a ten Because the Bible says there is therefore now No condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus listen God does not love you to the degree that you are like Christ Jesus He loves you to the degree that you are in Christ Jesus So what I like to do is are Christians saved by good works? Yes Just not ours And it matters for your lesson make this brief because you know a lot of this can sound like theory But I meet so many people who live with a perpetual fear. That's right that they haven't done enough for God That's right and they go to bed afraid sometimes like oh what if I've known like you know like it's not about what you've done for him It's about what he did once and for all for you. All right number five last one I called this one cafeteria Christianity or bill to bear Christianity depending on what you would like to call it. Yeah, you're welcome You're welcome the guy being smart says can't be convicted by scripture if you ignore the verses that convict you I gotta I think that's hilarious. I think I said I did Those these are old school memes by the way, so I'll turn that he wouldn't approve of these memes She said I would I would actually are you not busting in there? There are I would actually argue That this is probably the most widespread false teaching or false belief or heresy out there in most people and the idea is this The thing if you go to if I go to a cafeteria or if you go to I don't know how this prominent where people live They have a golden corral the whole idea is this man I'm gonna get I'm gonna get a tray

Man and play and I'm gonna pick and choose what I like and then I'm gonna leave what I don't and so the way a lot of People believe build their belief system or their ethics system the way they live is hey If the Bible says something that I agree with and that I like man. I'm gonna take it. Oh, God is loved That's amazing. Oh God judges, and he's also God of wrath. No, thanks No, nothing's gonna leave that man like hey take care of the poor and the poor Yeah, hey man control your body sexually and do and like and live a certain life. No, I'm good I'm gonna live however one and so basically the here's the issue with this it makes Jesus my savior But I still get to be Lord. Oh, that's great. That's a good ball It makes Jesus my Savior, but I still get to be Lord because I get to choose what parts of him He has both in my mind and what I believe and in my life and want to do and what parts he has and I forget You may remember the actual guy, but there's a famous story of this Christian emperor that when he was baptized He allowed him to baptize often, but he kept his hand in his sword above the water I looked up years ago It's a true story of it was some Christians during the crusades that they would there were soldiers that would be baptized They would hold their sword out of the water because they felt by the way I actually think there's an argument for that they were waging just wars So they actually prayed didn't might not even need I'm probably sinning by how I use my sword. So we baptize every part of them except the sword. Exactly. And so the idea is like, you can have every part of me but this. And that's the mind sort of this is that when I have to remember Jesus doesn't merely offer salvation, he demands Lord show you. It's not neither or it's about them. Luke 646 says, why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I tell you? Yep. And practically speaking as well, I'm connecting not to you, but selective Christianity or cafeteria Christianity eventually leads to progressive Christianity and progressive Christianity eventually leads to post Christianity where like you exit the faith. Typically true. So there you go. Anything you guys think I left out or anything you think I missed? No, let's talk about James Taylor. Because we're going to give an example. Yeah, this is great because basically let's double click on one and now we'll get to see a living live version of it. Okay, so this video went super viral recently, literally this week. And it's this is what you'll see is Reverend Bab's Miller who is a minister at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church in Austin, Texas. Her official title is minister to the parish. This is James

Taylor Rico, longtime congregation. And it's obviously a hidden camera and she's going to share what she really believes on some topics that she's being asked to in this moment. Yeah, and I want to say a couple things about this. Some of you you may have listened to some of these. Cheji policy run through some of the Heresies, you're like, nobody actually does that. Wrong. Do not let's go do not like 200 dollars. Honestly, this stuff is like, it's all over the place. It's for us all over the place and you don't know it. Bless God because you're not around it. But it's all over the place. Now, I want to set this up real quick. So dude, I'm going to zoom out. It just I'm going to give you this is an old conversation me and John Tyson had one time. And so I'm going to bring this here. What you're seeing right now in American culture is you're seeing something. I don't think at a meta narrative people don't realize what's happening. So for the last, honestly, I'd probably say since just after World War II secularism has kind of been the official kind of predominant religion governing the social order in the United States. Bro, this is Tyson. This is fire. Oh, Tyson says secularism does a reverse exorcism. It goes throughout society and wherever it finds God, it cries out, come out in humanity's name. Only John Tyson can throw fireballs like that. Okay. Now that in some more progressive areas that secularism might still be. Honestly, most people think secularism is generally dying. Now, dude, here's the bro. Here's the warning because we got Bible verses for this nature hates a vacuum. Yes. And Jesus gives this example. You remember that time he's telling the little parable, Hey man, if you drive out one demon and if you don't backfill it, if you drive out an unclean spirit and you don't backfill it with a holy spirit, hey, actually watch out because seven other unclean spirits or backfill the one unclean spirit you just expelled. And the last state of the person will be worse than the first. Dude, I'm going to give you a theory and we can watch for the next 20 years and see if I'm right. I think as secularism is dying and being driven out, you're actually going to start to see an American society competing spirits and spiritualities vying for cultural dominance in America. So instead of it being like, ah, we're committed to atheism and secularism. Honestly, dude, I think you're going to see and understand what I'm saying and what I'm not saying. I think you're going to see us like Islam, Christianity, demonic progressive Christianity, various spirits and spiritualities start to, Hey man, bunch of unclean spirits try to backfill the vacuum created by driving out the first unclean spirit of secularism, which leads me to why. And I know these are strong words,

but these are my boards. Why you're starting to see demonic false teachers moving from pulpits to politics. So there's actually two prominent ones. I haven't mentioned the other one on the pod yet. One's James Tallarico. We've done that a million times here. The other one is, I think it's in Kansas, Adam Hamilton is running for office progressive Christian pastor. The dude's like got a church. It's like, I think it's like the largest Methodist church in the United States. Bro, they're like literally financially sponsor, uh, pride festivals that are like having drag, you know, a farming church, all the things, like it's evil, man. He's running on approach choice platform. It's evil. It's like overt evil. And these guys are like, uh, wolf and sheep's clothing kind of deal. And I use that in the biblical sense of the term just because you disagree with something a pastor says, doesn't he's a wolf and sheep's going to tell me that somebody actually teaching heterodoxy. Yeah. These are like openly affirming non-orthodox, non-orthopraxie guys running for office. They're moving from pulpits to politics, which leads me to what you're about to see. Okay. So this is James Tallarico's, uh, We'll just say that. So this is Reverend Babes Miller. Now, Trinity, I'm gonna have you stop start a couple times because I wanna help people get a play by play of what progressive Christianity sounds like. So when Paul's talking about itching ears, oh, oh, that's what he's talking about. So we'll do this real fast, okay? So here we go. - Do we really believe that like a virgin gave birth to a baby? - No. - Yeah, okay. I just don't wanna offend my own common sense. - Yeah, no, don't. - Yeah. - Absolutely don't. Part of what we encourage here is for people

to think for themselves. - Okay, pause. So we have like an actual clear doctrine of the Bible version, both of Jesus. Hey, you know, don't check your, don't stop doing your thoughts and doing God's thoughts. Keep doing your thoughts and ignore God's thoughts. I just wanna point this out. Huge hallmark of progressive Christianity is in the garden. How does Satan tempt mankind? Hey, did God really say? Oh, you will not surely die. In other words, Satan's gone. Really, what I'm encouraging here is for you to think for yourself. Okay, well, I'll just tell you like me as a pastor, I'm not, I'm not encouraging you to think for yourself. I'm trying to get you to be transformed by the renewing of your mind, by the word of God. Okay, that's okay. Now keep, keep going. - Yeah. - And take what makes sense. It's kind of like what they say in 12-step programs. Take what you want and leave the rest. - Okay, boss. So Babs. - Still to bear. - Babs, take what you want and leave the rest. The Apostle Paul.

I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole council of God, okay, keep going. - So you, and I know that that-- - Watch this. - Would greatly offend your relatives who want to hang on to these archaic rules. Mary and the virgin birth comes out of the pagan belief that the gods came down and impregnated people. - Oh my gosh. That's my grandma would say, bless your heart. Bless your heart. And dude, actually I want to say something way more serious. So think about this. She's taking this Holy Spirit inspired virgin birth of Jesus and going, hey, you know where that idea came from? Demonic pagan religions. So dude, I just want to point this out. In Mark three, Jesus says, and we could do a whole episode, I want this means and what it doesn't mean. Jesus says, hey, do you know what the unforgivable sin is? He says, truly I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man and whatever blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. For they were saying he has an unclean spirit. In other words, Jesus is warning and this is a whole podcast episode. He's saying, if you continue for the rest of your life in a spirit where you look at things the Holy Spirit did

and start telling people, unholy spirits are doing that. He says, you better watch out because if you die in that spot, you're going to hell. That's what Jesus is saying. She's literally looking at an act of the Holy Spirit and saying, that came from demonic pagan religions. We got Bible verses for that. All right, now keep going. Yeah, that people were still hanging on to during that time. I'm going to apologize in advance, but not apologize. I'm going to use a very strong word in a second, but we have a biblical merit for me saying what I'm about to say. Okay, keep going, watch what she says here. We have no way of knowing if Jesus really existed. Pause. Then get the hell out of a pulpit. And here's why I say that. I know that sounds harsh in Galatians 1-8, the apostle Paul says, "Even if we or an angel from heaven preach to you another gospel, let them be damned." So I literally mean, you're seeing someone pull hell up onto earth and into a pulpit. Get out. Yeah, get out. Okay, now keep going, watch. Any more than we have of knowing

that the original Buddha ever existed. And whether or not Jesus existed, it doesn't really matter to me. Awesome. Okay, whether or not Jesus really exists, it doesn't really matter to me, okay? The apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is futile, and you are still in your sense. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. So I'm team Paul. Yeah, and also historically speaking, it's just not true. Like if you talk to the vast majority of historians today and even like the most ardent atheists today, that are historians, they will acknowledge that the vast majority that the consensus is like he definitely existed. Yes. This is actually a quote from an atheist historian, agnostic actually today. Jesus certainly existed as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian agrees. Except Mabs. Except Mabs. All right, keep going. The fact remains that the message that was delivered by someone named Jesus, supposedly, and it could have all been made up for all I know. And the God in the Old Testament is not a loving God. It's a vengeful killing people. Kind of God. Pause. Okay. Now, every progressive Christian you almost meet ever says that. That's going to get thrown at you at the water cooler at your office. So let me tell you how to respond to that really quick. Okay. The God of the Old Testament is a vengeful killing

people kind of God. What they're doing is they're looking at the passages in the Old Testament that people call the quote slaughtering of the innocence passages. Look, God commands the slaughtering of the innocence. Okay. If you ever get that thrown at you, let me tell you how to think about that. I got great news for you. Great, great, great news for you. In all the passages that people call the slaughtering of the innocence passages, great news. All the innocent ones were spared. Bad news. There were no innocent ones. Why? Because I got a Bible verse that says, "The wages of sin is death and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Okay. So good news, bad news. Now, I got better news. So here's why I want to help babes, better news. The only slaughtering of the innocence, there actually is a slaughtering of the innocence of the Bible. The only slaughtering of the innocence that happens in the entire Bible, it's not in the Old Testament. It's in the New Testament. And God did not do it to man. Man did it to God. Yeah. When we crucified Jesus by nailing him to the cross, which leads me to the very best news, he did it so he would never have to kill you and that you would have life, life everlasting life. God made him who knew no sin to be sinned for us, that in him we might become the righteousness of God. So swing in a mismatch. Let's keep going. Can I answer one more thing? Yeah. Also, you know who else disagrees with babes? Jesus does. He looks at the Old Testament and he affirms the Old Testament. Jesus said in John chapter 10 verse 35, a scripture cannot be broken. Also, it's a false caricature of God in the Old Testament. You see God's judgment in the Old Testament. And what a lot of these people will admit is all the verses that talk about the Lord's compassion and his patience, Exodus 34 verse 6, the Lord, the Lord, I got merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. Again, it's elective reading. Yeah. I want to keep going on the passage because it says, forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. And doesn't he goes to the 10th generation? Anyway, you have this thing in the Old Testament that's like, hey man, for a thousand generations, I want to pour out my love and faithfulness on you. And then he does the whole thing of, yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished. He punishes the children and their children. He's talking about the natural consequences of sin. And kind of this thing you have is man, my love and faithfulness goes for a thousand generations. And I'll only let the consequences and judgment of sin go for two or three, right? To the best. It's very, it's awesome. All right, let's keep going. Now, oh, what you're getting ready to see right here is what we said earlier,

progressive Christianity, it redefines sin into social inequity and social systemic injustice kind of thing. And then redefines the solution to, oh, we just need to do social justice activism. You're about to hear like a perfect case point of that. Watch what she says right here. Yeah. This is, this is a lot of mythology. Jesus was political. Yeah. Jesus was put on that cross, not to save us. Jesus was put on that cross because Roma aided him. And they thought he was a threat to their domination of that area. And so they killed him. Yeah. So he was kind of save our sins. He didn't not save our sins. I'll just keep saying the same thing. But even if we or an angel from heaven or a demonic false teacher named Babs preaches to you another gospel, let her be a cursed. That's it. You just literate, he didn't got to save our sins. Your problem is not that you're a sinner. Your problems that, you know, the government is bad. That's one more thing. Police. She said he didn't, Jesus didn't either save our sins. You can trust her word or you can just read your Bible. 1 Corinthians 15, 3, 4, I delivered to you as a first importance, what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scripture. John 1, 29, the next day he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." 1 Peter 2, 24, he himself bore our sins in his body on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness by his way. - Oh, and there's the announcement of the angel to the family of saying you shall call him Jesus because he will save his people from their sin. - It's literally his name. His name is Jesus. - Jesus comes from Yeshua, which comes from a Hebrew verb Yeshua, which means to rescue or save. It's literally his name. All right, I have no words. Let's keep going, okay. - Dad Moore is a kind of a social justice warrior in some sense. - Yeah, okay, it's fun.

I know it's, I keep pausing. - He was really here as a social, so again, I just want to point this out earlier. She was like, Jesus was political. He came as a social justice warrior. I just want to point this out. So if you're a Christian who's any politically aware at all, you know that what James Tallarico, Adam Hamilton, what these guys do is they look at guys like us who take actual biblical convictions and we're like, we should apply those in every sphere, including the societal and political realm. And they're like, hey, watch out. These guys are scary Christian nationalists. They're trying to take their Christian beliefs and bring them into the political realm. That's wrong. They're scary Christian nationalists. I just want to point this out to you. They're running a bait and switch on you and you keep following for the same play every time. They're doing the same thing. They're just interpreting their Bible in the exact wrong way and then taking their unbiblical beliefs and applying their progressive Christian heresy into the political, they're doing the same thing. - That's called progressive Christian nationalists and that's what that's called. - So here's the whole podcast.

But what you notice is when people like this, when the Bible is used to advance progressive causes, man, you know what that is? That's speaking truth to power. You know what that is? That's being a faithful presence. But then when people use the Bible to advance what feels to them like a quote unquote conservative cause, well, that's scary Christian nationalism. You're trying to impose your beliefs on other people. So are you. No, you're just that. All right, keep going. We'll finish this up. - So that makes a whole lot more sense to me than to say that some God would kill his son for us. - That's what he's over here. - That never made sense. - How does that make up for all the things I can do? - I would love to answer that question. I would love to answer that question. So first of all, I have righteous anger at the things that she said. - Yes. - Jesus Christ loves that woman. - Yes, he does. - And he died for that woman. - Yeah. - And so man, if I ever got a chance to have a coffee with babes, I would restrain my righteous anger

in the moment. And what I would wanna tell her is, man, how does that make up for all the things that I do? Well, I'm so glad you asked. Because what the Bible says is God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us so that in him he might become, we might become the righteousness of God. It makes up for all the things that I do because the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from any sin. - That's right. - And as far as the East is from the West, so has God cast our transgressions from us. So much so that the Bible says he forgives our transgressions and he quote, "remembers our sins no more." And so we began this podcast talking about a guy who began his life for the first 30 years hating and blaspheming Jesus, just like we watched a woman hate and blaspheme the actual Jesus. And in the exact same way, the God loved, chased down, redeemed, forgave, and used the Apostle Paul to preach the gospel. Jesus Christ could love, chase down, redeem, and use babes someday to preach the actual gospel, why? Because Jesus Christ is a friend of sinners and he actually can forgive all of your sins and make you a new woman in Christ. - So good. - So I wanna finish with a love of Jesus Christ

for that woman. - That's your Josh in that note, would you pray for us? - No, I'm gonna ask you to do it, Carlos. - Oh, okay. - I'll talk to you next. - No, man, no, man, good. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you because this is the best news there is ever, that you, while we were still sinners, you gave up your life because you loved us enough, not because we were better or because we were impressive or brought anything to the table, but ultimately because who you are, that you are a good father. What I pray for the people listening to this, I pray that their faith may be strengthened, emboldened, encouraged, that we may receive the words of the Apostle Paul to Timothy, that we may do the work, focus on what you've called us to do and that we may fulfill our ministry. And that we may run the race that you've said before us, Father, I pray, maybe for people listening right now, that might disagree, I pray, holy spirit, that you may do a work that only you can do, we can try to change somebody's mind, but only you can change their hearts. So Lord, would you do it again? We are celebrating coming off of this weekend

to seeing all the life change, people publicly proclaiming their faith in you through baptism, Lord, I pray that you may do it one more time. that we find hope in the gospel, that is power for salvation, not just a matter of words. So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for the Lift Free Podcast. We glorify you for everything you're doing through this podcast. Lord, we want to humble ourselves before you. We want to give you all the glory. And again, we just want to pray that the name of Jesus be made much of, that we may decrease, that you may increase Jesus. So thank you, may your kingdom come, and may your will be done. And we pray all of this in your mighty name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Lift Free Brother. [Music]