How To Study the Bible (and ACTUALLY Grow Spiritually) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

What's the best diet? The one you'll do. What's the best way to study the Bible? The one you'll do. - The foundation of our theology is not anecdotes or experiences the word of God. - You have desires that nothing in this world can satisfy. It's because we were made for a different world. - Well, hey, Liffry Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Liffry Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend

and now enjoy the podcast. - Let's keep this fake. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Liffry podcast. My name is Carlos Ross and today I'm excited because I'm here with Pastor Paul Cunningham and Pastor Josh Howardton. - Wait, oh, this is the first episode on three of us have had it in a while. - Oh, welcome back. It's good to be back. - It was like one week, but it feels like it was like a month. - Yes. I agree for many reasons, but I will not tell you why. - Okay. (laughing) - It was the week that felt like a month. - Yeah. - Were you gonna play something? - No, I'm gonna wait until you say the thing before I play the thing. - Oh, okay. - Why is this special? What special thing happened, Carlos? - Bro, we have a special special announcement. I am excited and honored to announce that chat, G-Paul, C-A-K-A, the Epistle missile, Pastor Paul Cunningham, went to Israel. - Hey!

- Hey! - Yes, I made it to Israel. (laughing) - Oh, man, that's the music I grew with me at the airport. - I'm sure in some way I broke some rule by doing that, but it was funny. - I mean, Paul is wearing a shirt. - I like your shirt? What is this? - Yes. - Oh, wow. - This mayor may not have been waiting on me as a gift from my parents for when I made it. - Show the shirt. - Yes. Yes, I made it to Israel. - Bro. - I've been asked that a million times even while we were there. Man, did you guys make it? Yes. I made it to Israel. - Bro, I made it to Israel. - Did you get your $7,000 from Benjamin Netanyahu? - Still waiting on that money. Haven't seen a nickel yet. So, Ben, if you're listening or watching to this, you could please just get in contact with you and give my address. That'd be great.

- We're gonna talk about it in just a second here, but we're coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, and today we're gonna have a spicy episode. - Oh, it's a lot here, man. - A lot here. - Because we're gonna go second Timothy chapter two. We're gonna talk about consecration. What did it make it to the sermon? We're gonna be asking how to read the Bible. We get a lot of people reaching out saying, "Hey, I just bought my brand new Bible." - How to study? - Essentially, you wanna go like, is it, you're doing three or four ways? - Four. - We're gonna go four ways to study the Bible. - Three to the Bible. - Like, top three most asked question we get. - Yes, right. - Bro, how do you guys get the stuff you get? I'm not getting that one. I read it. How do you study the Bible? - Hacks, tips, easy ways to study and read the Bible. All the things, we're gonna be reacting to a viral video that resurfaced recently as well of this kid in a hospital. - 'Cause Mel Gibson retweeted it. - I think that's a fake Mel Gibson account, by the way. - A nice fake?

- I think so, yeah. - I got that. - 'Cause I saw the name too, but I'm like, "Yeah, that's probably not Mel Gibson." - But the video is legit. - But the video is a real video, and it is a kid in the hospital seeing a vision of heaven. And so we're gonna be asking, "Hey, how should a Christian think through people saying that they see visions of heaven, whether it's a near-death experience or something along those lines? - Yeah, dude. Well, I'll just tease it. I wanna zoom out and ask, because Christians get this all the time, there'll be a book that goes, it's like a bestseller for a year, 90 minutes in heaven. - Yeah. - It's like, "Hey, man, how should we think about that?" - Yeah. - And we have some warnings, and then we'll probably say a few things you might not expect. We'll go there in a second. - It's gonna be great. Hey, great job this weekend. - Hey, Mel, thank you. - It's good to be back.

- It's good to be back. - Good to be back in the saddle. - Couple things you wanna celebrate? - More than a couple. So first of all, just kicked off rooted. I wanna shout this out. I just got this over 37, 100 people in this rooted session. (laughs) - Wow. - So 37, 100 people at Lake Point that are walking through the 10-week discipleship experience can be awesome. I'm at a Navy Seal, bro, so legit. Yeah, I wouldn't preach the last weekend, obviously, but I still like, I'm a Christian, so I like going to church with my family. (laughs) So I was sitting there in the, we were in the four o'clock, and this dude, his name's Eric. He was like, "Hey man, I was on Seal Team Four. "Please don't kill me." And dude, it's amazing. I mean, he just, honestly, he started listening to our stuff online. Got, I think, got connected via Live Free. Stumbles in a Lake Point. It's, you know, failing forward in grace, figuring it out. And he's like, "Hey man, I'm going through rooted."

Oh, hey man, you made it through buds. You're probably gonna make it through rooted. You know? discipleship thing, it was amazing. - Wow, well, we actually hear quite a bit of people saying that they found the podcast online and then they came to Lake Point and then they're joining the group, joining Root It, and now the whole family's here, they're getting baptized. - Hey, I'm gonna cheat. I'll actually, I'll turn it out to take these to you later. We can edit it in post. So literally, I got this message 30 seconds before we start recording. So this is like an actual thing. So first of all, live free nation legit. We're actually moving people into churches and discipleship. - I think that's a good idea. - So this is somebody at our North Dallas campus. She said, my husband, well, I'll omit the names in case I'm not allowed. Our new to Lake Point, North Dallas. We did Root It last semester. This is our first time stepping out in leadership for fall Root It. She said, there was a few common threads in our 24 person Root It group. Number one, this is gonna bless you. Everyone got connected to Lake Point via the live free podcast, so.

- Bro, amazing, that's what she said, yes. Number two, all, we're seeking people in the community making friends a faith to walk through life together. And three, it's usually just talking about their past. And she just starts going on, you know, brand new believers recommitted their lives to Christ. Bunch people getting baptized for the first time. All because, start right here, a live free nation. - That's awesome. - That's awesome, man. - We, people will be asking, obviously, 'cause Root It is for the people that attend Lake Point here in person. And so for those that are not attending in person, Lake Point, because maybe they happen to live in a different state. Man, we want to encourage you. Go find a Bible believe in church. And get plugged in. - That's right. - The discipleship happens in relationships, so that's amazing. - If you're anywhere near one of our strategic launch network churches, that's where you need to go. - Actually, text map to 20411, and we'd love to help you find a church. - Yeah, so map, you text map 201. The hundred churches Lake Point has planted. Like all those locations will get sent to you.

We're constantly pushing people on those churches. Those are good dudes. - And out of the thousands of people that are joining Root It, a lot, perhaps actually thousands of people more will be taking a step of faith through Baptist Health. - Yeah, Baptist Health, one of the weekends coming up in two weekends. So that's like, that's like biggest party of the year. We'll baptize hundreds. I mean, like, I'm not gonna say how many. I'm gonna guess, I'm gonna conservatively guess 500 people in that, we'll baptize that weekend. So you ain't never seen anything like it. If you were ever going to make a Lake Point service in person, come hang out for a big old party. - Yeah, I think we're allowed to share this. But last year, we, by the grace of God, we baptized over 3000 people. But this year, I think we're gonna surpass that number, like literally like by next baptism weekend. - In two weeks, we'll pass that. - It's dumb. - Oh, Gordy God. - Yeah, Gordy God. - We ain't just good. - Well, if somebody's listening right now and they attend Lake Point and you feel like, man, I haven't baptized, I've not been baptized yet. We'd love to help you.

So text the word life to two, zero, four, one, one. If somebody's in the area as welcome visit, we gotta get for you as well. Every single week, we do a free giveaway, 'cause that's literally the definition of a giveaway. It's meant to be free. So go to YouTube and Spotify and comment hat. Oh, I forgot. When you were here last, Pastor Josh, we tried to name that guy over there. And we have some people. - Oh, yeah, stole. - You wanna hear the top three contenders? - Yeah, sure, and then let's get into, we'll start talking about the Bible here in a second. You guys have to talk about your Israel trip real quick going ahead. - Well, that's a great story. - Yeah, what do we get for the names for the school? Number one, somebody said, go get it, yeah, yeah. Somebody said that the bear skull should be named Bear Numbus, because it looks so supportive sitting there next to Paul. (laughing) - That's a stretch. - I mean, that's creative. That's number one, number two, bear witness. You know, like, okay, and then number three. - That feels like a coffee shop, like a Christian coffee shop named Hebrews. It's like, that's a little.

- I mean, it's an option. And then number three. - Did you get that Hebrews? - No, I got it. I got it, yeah. But I appreciate it. - They just now got it. - Yeah, they didn't get it. - Thank you. - And then number three, somebody said that we should name the bear skull Baldi in memory of the kids who perished in Second Kings, chapter two. - That's great. - Yes, that's not bad. - That's great. - That's a little known Bible stories. - Yeah. - PG-17 Bible stories, that one. - That was a good one. - Okay, real quick. Let me start talking about the Bible. Israel highlights what you all see. It was your first time. - Go ahead. - Okay, so I'm excited to share this one. This is gonna blow your mind. - I can't wait. - Okay, so this right here is a photo right now that train is about to pull up.

It is the photo of the guarding of Gethsemane. And this is literally the garden. That's literally the place where Jesus prays the night. He is arrested and Gethsemane is located in this place called Mount of Olives, which is literally a mountain full of olive trees. Now, the word Gethsemane comes from the Hebrew in Aramaic Gethsemane, which literally means oil press or the olive crushing place. And so obviously people know this, but oil is what you get when you put pressure on olives. And so the next photo right here is what people used to use in biblical times that circle stone on top, put a bunch of olives over there and then put pressure on them. And that's how you make oil. So, when you read scripture and you see that Jesus of the Garden of Gethsemane, he's not at this random garden. He's actually at a place that is associated with olives being crushed and pressed to produce oil. Now, in the Bible, Pastor Josh, you know this and Chai Jipo see probably noses as well. There are four different purposes for olive oil. - This is so good. - So, first purpose for olive oil, it was used to anoint kings, priests and prophets. You see this in the Old Testament, King David was anointed with oil and then he became king.

The sons of Aaron were anointed and then they became priests, Elijah anoints Elisha to become a prophet. So, king, priest and prophet number one. Number two, olive oil was also used for cleansing. It was used to build soap. And so, this is why Jesus says in Matthew chapter six that when you fast, it says, "Wash your face with oil." Like it literally was used to cleanse you. Number three, olive oil was used to treat wounds and bring healing. This is really interesting in the Gospel of Luke. Luke is a physician and he tells us the parable of the Good Samaritan and he says that the Good Samaritan grabs the man that was wounded and he uses oil on him to help with the healing. Also, I didn't know this, but in James chapter five, the famous passage that says that if somebody is sick among you, bring them to the elders and anoint the person that is sick with oil. Oil is a representation of God's blessing over your life, but at the time it was also used with medicinal purposes. And so, again, bring healing. And number four, olive oil was also used to fuel lamps. So, this isn't just biblically true. This is also archeologically true. This is a photo of the lamps that were used in that time. You actually have one right here, which is amazing.

So cool. You would put a bunch of oil in that little space and then a wick and then you light it up and that would be what people used to bring light. Now, if you think about everything I just said, four purposes. - Oh, here it comes. - In Gethsemane, the place of the oil press, Jesus is being impressed as he fulfills the role of the ultimate anointed king, priest, and prophet. In Gethsemane, Jesus is being impressed because he is getting ready to go to a cross to cleanse us from our sins. In Gethsemane, Jesus is being impressed because he is the one who came to hear our wounds and the one who came to hear our wounds is getting ready to be wounded himself. And in Gethsemane, Jesus is being impressed because he is the light of the world and the Bible says that those that are in him have no darkness in them. That's amazing, but there's more. When we learned this on our trip, when you press ripe olives, the first liquid that comes out is actually not pure oil. It is a dark, purple, reddish, colored liquid. And some people think it actually looks like blood. Luke 22, 44, Jesus is praying and he is an agony. He says, Lord, God, Father, if there is another way, and the Bible says that as he is praying, he is an agony, his sweat becomes like great drops of blood

falling down to the ground. And so here's the point, salvation costs you nothing, but to Jesus, it costs him everything. When you put pressure on the olives, what comes out is oil. When Jesus was pressured at the garden and at the cross, what came out with his blood and is in that blood that you and I today, by his grace, we find salvation. - Oh, bro, that's what I learned. - That's what I learned. - There's levels to this. - There's levels to this. - Bro, that's the first time I saw that. You've all told you that. - We did, we did. - Yeah, it involves the greatest guy. - Shout out. - In history, he's shouting. - That's a true guy. - I was over there like weeping like a baby. He's like going through this thing. I knew where he was going. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like he started in, and if you know your Bible just enough, you start going like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. - Yeah, it's better and better, it's better. Anyways. - It's okay. Well, man, I gotta follow that. - What do you got?

- I'm empty. - We'll see what you got. (both laugh) - Make sure you put it in the mic. This is a... - Oh man, well, first off, the whole thing was just incredible. It was, it's hard even put into words. I still feel like I am meditating on it and still trying to take it all in. - Wait, wait, hold on, Paul. Let me ask you this. Have you been to Israel? - I have been to Israel, okay? I have, that joke is dead, that is dead. It makes me sad. - A little bit. A little bit. - Yeah, I was closing up a book and it's kind of sad when you finish that book, you know. There's other jokes. - I'm sure there's nothing in my expense. So I haven't been over in the footsteps of Paul. So I still haven't been over that area. You still got that on me. But anyways, nah, it was special. Brought a lot back with me, left a lot of me there too. You know, may or may not have gotten a severe case of bacterial food poisoning. - We will not go into detail at all. - We will not go into detail at all.

- Paul made some deposits. - Yes, that's it. (both laugh) But by the grace of God, seriously by the grace of God, I didn't have to miss a single sight. And, man, a few things took out. - More blessed. The receipt. - That is exactly right. Listen, the way I like to think of it, it is I just found a foolproof plan for not gaining any weight when I'm traveling. - Man, amen. - It's foolproof, yeah. Anyways, yeah, a few things that suck out. - Yes. - 'Cause a lot of the places, you're like, oh, this is approximately where Jesus was, or hey, maybe it was buried 10 feet beneath this, but there, I mean, they've excavated it. You go to go down into the dungeon where he was held. And so if you paste that thing, you're like, Jesus was here. So I just knelt down, put my hand down. And then when I stood up, they had a Bible there, and it was open to Psalm 88, which is actually one of my favorite chapters in the whole Bible, which is kind of morbid 'cause it's the darkest chapter in the whole Bible, but the Psalm ends darkness is my closest friend.

You've taken my loved ones and companions from me. The darkness is my closest friend. And so just thinking of just Jesus being there in the darkness, but to your point, Carlos, he's in the darkness for us. - That's right. - He entered into the darkness to save us. So something about Caiaphas's house hit me. Obviously the garden tomb was incredible. We had an incredible God, Cesar shout out. He's a little bit free listener by the way. - Oh, right. - Cesar. - And everything, but walking out of the tomb and it just hit you like, this is what Jesus did. He walked out of the tomb. But one of the things, and it was kind of random that hit me was when you're in Galilee, everything is so close to each other. When you're reading the Bible, it doesn't hit you dumb. It doesn't hit you, but it's like to kind of connect the dust would be like, "Jesus is hometown "for a while, it's Capernaum." And that's where you see the story of him raising a little girl who died, the woman who touched the hem of his garment. But then nearby at the feeding, the 5,000 discern on the mount, when you read the discern on the mount, I'd always imagine, "Oh yeah, he walked away, he's out." Dude literally walked up the hill. - That's right.

- And then down the hill is where he restores Peter in the shore. So it's all right there. So all these stories of healings and ministry happened within a few square miles of each other. - It's literally like 75% of this happened in this area of Dallas. It's like kind of like that. - Like in the Galilee area, literally, if you went for a nice little 5K or 10K in the morning, you would go almost the extent of his Galilee ministry. And one side is insane. But the thing I've been reflecting on and really kind of crystallized today is I was thinking about how Jesus in the book of John says, I mean, you would even greater works in these than I've been doing. Obviously, he doesn't mean the scope of the miracle. I think what he's talking about there, you're gonna do them in places I've never been before. But if it's true that Jesus did most of his life-changing ministry within a few square miles of each other, I think the thing that hit me is that means for us today, these greater works, these amazing things God has for us to do, they're probably within a few square miles of where we live. - That's great, Paul. - We don't have to go to some far-granted-off place. I'm so thankful I went to Israel. - Chris Scott. - But the things that God wants to do through me

are probably right around me. - That's good. - And that starts whether it's a few square feet away from me, my kids, my wife's life, or my neighbors. And so that's just the thing that's been resonating with me is Jesus was really into local ministry and impacting the people around him. And if we could raise the ban army of men and women who are following Jesus the same, the whole world would be different because of it. So there's much more, but those are a few initial things that suck out to me. - Can you play that sound one more time? I just need to do that. (laughs) (laughs) - We heard music, just people don't know, we heard music like that. We're not doing any kind of coach appropriation or anything like that. - Well, I don't know what that means. - Yeah. - I don't know what that means either. - All right. - That's only here in America, bro. I'll tell you, I don't know what that is there. - Anything. - Okay. In America, I meant North America. But anyways, different conversation.

Pastor Josh, I have a question for you. - I will allow it. - What did it make you do this sermon? - A lot. - Okay. So this is great. So first of all, we're, I think, five weeks in. - Five weeks in. - Five weeks in. - Five weeks in. - We five fight the good fight through Second Timothy. Or I'll just tell you, I am loving this so much. - So good. - Thank you, dude, is about 10 times more fun for me as a preacher and we're just preaching through a book. So this has been amazing. So I'm actually gonna cheat. I'm gonna do one thing from last week's passage and then go into this. So bro, shout out, my bro. He preached the first part of Second Timothy, too. Dude, there is one of my favorite verses. And I was so mad that he got that passage. One of my favorite verses in the whole New Testament is in it. So let me set this up real quick because this is why I had to, I needed to go back. Okay. So first of all, who I'm getting a quote is an old day guy named Charles Spurgeon.

This is Charles Spurgeon. You know what Charles Spurgeon is? Total stud. They call him the Prince of Preachers. He preached at Metropolitan Tabernacle in London for many years. Guy was pastoring a church of like 10,000 people before there were microphones in the 1800s. Like total stud. Bro, I'm reading his Charles Spurgeon biography right now. Became a senior pastor for the first time in 17. Started pastoring a Metropolitan Tabernacle when he was 19. He's pastoring like one of the most prominent churches in London when he's 19 years old. Had preached 600 sermons by the time he was 20. - He's a freak. - It was a total like a freak of nature. Freak of nature. Whole life, you know, cigar in one hand, glass and brandy in the other. He's just kind of that kind of guy, you know, he's a dude. Okay. So I'm going to, it's one of my favorite Charles Spurgeon quotes. This is why I had to like, let me go back. So let me set it up. So what I'm going to say is not going to make sense unless you know what Jesus name means. So we call Jesus, Jesus in English. That's not what Jesus was actually called. The English name, Jesus, just transliteration

of the Greek word, eesus. But we all three know this. Jesus, he's growing up speaking Aramaic. So in Aramaic, they didn't call me Jesus. They called him Yeshua, which by the way, is where we also get the name Joshua. Great name, strong name. Zero name, masculine name. That's where they get that name. But the name Yeshua comes from the Hebrew word Yasha, which means to rescue or to save. So all this is gonna come together here in a second. So Jesus' name literally means one who rescues or one who saves. All right, now bookmark that in your head. So then here's my favorite verse probably in all of second Timothy. It says this. Second Timothy 2, 12, remember Jesus Christ. If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself. Okay, now you're like, what does it mean he cannot deny himself? Nobody ever said it better than Charles Version. Okay, so Charles Version quote. This verse said this. My master never denied himself. If you go to him, you will find him at home and on the lookout for you. He will be more glad to receive you

than you will be to be received, for he waits to be gracious to you. He is watching for you. I tell you again that he cannot reject you. That would be to alter his whole character and un-Christ himself, to spurn a coming center would, and here it is, un-Jesus him and make him to be somebody else and not himself any longer for. He cannot deny himself and then Spurgeon just end saying, go and try him. Go and try him. Go and try him. And the reason I'm stinging to love that so much is when you're the guy, you're the girl who you sinned, that sinned, you promise you'd never sinned again for the thousandth time and you did it again. Or if you got a lot of doubts and you're like, man, I just feel really faithless, you read, he cannot deny himself and you remember his name literally means the one who rescues or saves. And then you remember he cannot un-Jesus himself. So go and try him. Go and try him. Go and try him. I love that verse so stinking much that I had to go back, retrace the steps and hit it.

So you got that. That's from Second Timothy 2, 12. Now, this passage we did this week, Honestly Man, there was a ton here. It's a lot, Honestly Man. It's a lot just about like Paul going to his little disciple Timothy and going, hey man, here are the marks of a disciple that's actually growing. That's really all this is. So I'm gonna hit a few things. It's interesting to me, he begins this passage and this is an underrated thing. Preachers probably noticed this more than other people. He begins this passage and he says, keep reminding them of these things. Man, I'll just, like for, you've been a disciple for a minute, you probably need to hear this. About 95% of the time, you don't need to learn something new, you just need to remember something old. - Yes. - Is that thing we'll say over and over, forgetfulness, the greatest enemy of faith because when you forget what God did, you stop believing what it'll do. So it's like, man, most of the time I've found when something's off or there's like something going on under the hood, I really just need to go find the thing. That's hilarious. My assistant's setting up my new phone

and I'm getting like a billion alerts like right now. (laughing) Don't allow, don't allow, okay. There's the code that I'm supposed to send her. That's right, I'm gonna have to know. Somebody text Janet. Somebody text Janet, tell her this is my text. - Yeah, Jason, that's great. So that's what, just go find the old thing. It's your heart needs to remember. And like, you know, just do it. - Now, I'm gonna show you a gross picture here in a second. So just roll with me. He says this in this passage, and man, I'll be honest, especially in social media age, this is like, this is one of the most disobeyed verses there is now. He just says this. He says, avoid Godless chatter. - That's what he says. - Avoid Godless chatter. I think, and what's really interesting, if you look at the Hebrew for Godless chatter, it's Twitter. That's what it is. And the Greek is Facebook. - That's probably a kite, an ex as well. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And the Latin is Instagram. - There you go, yeah. - And then the Aramaic is blogs. - What about Yiddish?

- Yeah, I don't know, I don't know that one. Okay, and dude, what's interesting is he says, yeah, TikTok, that's what it is. He says, avoid Godless chatter. And then what he says, this is really interesting. Because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. So dude, this is really interesting. Because he gets into this, and what he says is, hey man, he says, avoid foolish controversies. Quit talking about quarrels about words. What he's literally talking about is he's talking about people who get real contentious in churches, and they start debating little things and dividing their life groups, that kind of stuff, and all this stuff, and what he's saying is, bro, that actually makes you less godly. You can be arguing about things of God all you want, but there's a way to do it that makes you less godly and then bro, this is where I'm gonna show you gross picture. He says, "Avoid those people," because, quote, "their talk will spread like gangrene." Okay, now I'm gonna show you something nasty. Say it like that right there, show that. Look at that, bro, look at that. No, don't look away, Paul. Look at that with your face. (laughing) Okay, both eyes, look at that, okay? Bro, gangrene, so that's what that is.

Now I'm gonna keep it up because it's making you uncomfortable. I'm keeping it up there on purpose, okay? So when somebody gets that disease, now you can take it down, it's real gross. When somebody gets that disease, here's the point. His point is you can't cure it. The only thing you can do is cut it off. That's the only thing you can do. Now here's what's really interesting. I didn't have as much time to go into this. So second Timothy and Titus, they're like Siamese books, because both of them is where Paul's right into two of his spiritual sons. He says the same thing to Titus, but with different language, about godless chatter, people were dividing church a second, I think. Titus three, this is what he says. This has got a bit of an edge to it. It's kind of thing like, wait, can we obey that verse? That sounds, I don't know what I think about that. He says, "Worn a divisive person once, "and then warn them a second time. "And then after that have nothing to do with them." So what he's literally saying in this passage, he's saying, "Hey man, if you want to ruin a church, "just let people get in there who like just, "they sow division and they're arguing about stuff "all the time, this godless chatter.

"And what we're supposed to do is essentially, "you got when you see that, when you see, "just by the way, over the, "speaking this over the people like point, "we're not these people, we don't do this stuff. "But when you see people who do that stuff, "he's going, "Hey man, you got two choices "when you see that. "You rebuke them or you remove them." That's what, Bryce, it's another one of those things where he calls out two dudes by name. Like he literally says, "I think it's Hymanaeus "and Philedis's their names." He just calls them out by name and he's like, "It's these guys, these guys are not doing, "are those the names?" I think that's the names. He tells these guys, "Yeah, Hymanaeus and Philedis." Verse 17, "He just calls them out by name." He's like, "Don't do that." So I will say, by God's grace, we have not had to do this hardly ever at Lake Point. But what you're seeing here is the very uncomfortable, very unpopular thing that goes very internet viral, that there are moments where churches just have to go, "Hey bro, you can't do that in our church. "And if you can keep doing that, we gotta kick out." That's what he's doing here. I will just say this, I'll just, this right here, the admonition to avoid Godless chatter.

In internet age, there's a lot of people, it's just the nature of us being very online. It's like now people are always saying stuff about churches like a new whole industry. I won't even say it. (laughing) - Say something, click close to home. - Click this link to my monetized website so I can just land our churches in that kind of thing. But there's a lot of times people are like, "Hey man, why don't you respond?" Because that just said, just to avoid Godless chatter. Just to avoid it. So it was interesting, I've meditated on this verse a lot. You notice Jesus did this. People would a lot of times walk up to Jesus and be like, "Jesus, hey, tell us. "Hey, is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" And they're like, essentially they got a gotcha question. And then Jesus, as I'm meditating this passage, I realize how wise Jesus is. Jesus is applying the proverbs and he's applying this, avoid Godless chatter. And there's sometimes where he refuses to answer questions or he'll answer a question with a question. He'll go, "Oh, you wanna ask me a question?" Very interesting, very interesting. I'm gonna ask you a question. And then he essentially goes, "Hey, the baptism of John,

"was it from heaven or from man?" And he puts them in a darned view, darned if you don't. But the point is, man, Timothy's gone, "Hey man, make sure as a church "and make sure as pastors "that you don't get drawn in to Godless chatter. "Hey man, don't wrestle with the pig, "all that happens, you get dirty and the pig likes it." So you got this. Now, there's a couple of other things I realize. You guys got anything on that? We go here? - Yeah, no, if I'm honest, this is a verse I take very seriously. Obviously, like you said, Mr. Josh, part of our jobs is kind of, it's just very online, very involved. So I actually wrestle with this verse a lot because, man, there's obviously wisdom in trying to figure out where's the line between what is a foolish, ignorant controversy and what is something that, as Christians, we're called to speak into. But the verse is not saying that you never speak into the things that you need to be speaking into. And literally, like a verse after it says, "Hey, you have a responsibility as a leader." everybody, but then to correct your opponents with gentleness. And so there is a sense in which there's a time for you to

say, you know what, like that's just not worth it. And that's a good warning for a bunch of, for Christians, really, for us, then there's, there are things we're just not going to, we're not going to touch. And there's also a time to, like you said, to correct your opponents with gentleness, because that's literally a verse. That's good. That's right. Yeah. Actually, I'll give it, can I give it to elimination? So this is, let me make an application we made before the post pod, but let's go, go layer deeper. Yes. So this doesn't mean it's not saying it says avoid foolish controversies. It does not say avoid all controversies. In fact, those two guys that he mentions, I'm an ace and filetis, he calls them out by name, and he addresses the controversy they're creating specifically, because these guys were, I'm going to explain this here in a second, they were teaching false doctrine, saying that the resurrection had already happened. So I don't have time to go into this. It was a very, it was like a very Greek heresy that was like, hey, man, everything physical is bad, everything spiritual, good. The only resurrection that happened actually already happened when you gave your life to Christ. It was a spiritual resurrection already happened to you. You know, no physical resurrection is coming. So you'll notice Paul consistently chooses which things he

confronts and which things he doesn't. Based on this, that we call it a lot of times, we'll talk about theological triage. OK, so here's the analogy that gets used. There are first-tier issues, second-tier issues, third-tier issues. OK, so first-tier issues are issues of core doctrine. Like you must believe these things in order to be a Christian. OK, so this is salvation by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone. This is the resurrection of Christ and coming with Christ. You know, there's a bunch of stuff that goes in here. We don't, we don't debate those. We defend those. That's right. Yeah, I'm going to do the three Ds here. OK, OK. So second-tier issues are issues where we would say, hey, it's actually more important to be together than to be right, but it may be uncomfortable. So for instance, motive baptism. Like, honestly, man, if you are committed, what somebody might call a pedobaptist, you're about sprinkling babies. And then you come to Lake Point and we're like, well, we only don't people who have actually made professions of faith. Visible representation of invisible reality. Is it we're all on team Jesus together and let's move forward as team Jesus in a unified way. But maybe uncomfortable at Lake Point when you want me to baptize your, your baby and the little, you know, and I'm not going to do it.

Maybe uncomfortable. Yeah. OK, third-tier issues are issues where it's more important to be together than to be right and it shouldn't be uncomfortable at all. OK. So this is things like, hey, man, in my opinion, things like eschatological views. Hey, what order are the events of the second coming going to happen in? OK, is it the millennium? And then the, you know, thing or has the millennium come before the thing, preacher, brash, rapture, brochure, rush. Hey, ma'am, we can like have fun discussions. Yeah. We don't need to divide over that age of the earth, stuff like that. Like, I'm as conservative as you get on that stuff. But I'm like, I'm not, I'm not going to divide my discipleship group over that. How about as an Armenian? That kind of stuff. Yeah. The second-tier, third-tier issues. The way I like to put it is first-tier issues, if we disagree, we have a different faith. Second-tier issues, if we disagree, we should probably go to a different church. Third-tier issues, if we disagree, we just have different opinions. Well, that's fantastic. Say that one more time. That's fantastic.

First-tier issues, if we disagree, we have a different faith. Second-tier issues, if we disagree, we should probably just go to a different church. Third-tier issues, if we disagree, man, we just have different opinions. That's great. Yeah. So he said it a little better than me. So here's what I would say. So what I'll typically do is when somebody's trying to figure out, hey, man, what should I, so by the way, notice, there's a bunch of stuff that is not in any of those. They're like fifth-tier issues. You know, growing up, what color's the carpet in the church? You know, how they play drunk, you know, that kind of stuff. Like, hey, man, I didn't even register on the Richter scale. But on those things, you know, kind of what I'll do is, hey, third-tier issues, oh, man. China's sexy me now, right? China's sexy, but we just grew up in a business joke. That's a joke, by the way. Third-tier issues, it's, hey, man, discuss second-tier issues, debate. And then this will have an edge to it. First-tier issues, either declare or divide. That's it, dude. So third-tier issues, friendly discussion. Second-tier issues, might have a lively debate. First-tier issues, divide and declare. So this was, that's what's going on here, I think. Now, let me just say a couple more things about this that was, you know, that I think were really good.

And then I want to talk about ways to study the Bible. I love this. It's, uh, it started this passage. So you got this whole deal, uh, let me find the best right here. Yeah, verse 20. Now, in a great house, there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. So you got by the way, I was messing with my ring and it fell a second ago Somebody can find that thing because all the podcast clips are gonna look like I don't got a ring on You and janna I'm like nope me and janitor real good Silicone workout ring wait trinity get in here For the woman behind the curtain to show her face a great reveal. So here we go drumroll Trinity You're gonna come over here and everybody in the comments is gonna. Welcome Trinity. No, you get over your face And by the way, she had to come over here because he found it Okay, so what he does here is he's talking about how he says great house So he's talking about big like a big old house. Okay, by the way if you attend Lake Point is a big house. Yeah, okay It's great house And then he says there are some vessels For of gold and silver for honorable use and then he says some for dishonorable Almost every Bible scholar says the same thing. He's literally talking about like a chamber pot Like he's lit. He's talking He's talking about first-century crapper is what he's talking about probably and what he's saying is hey, man There are all these vessels have a purpose Some of them get used for extremely noble honorable significant purposes Some of the man you kind of keep hidden. You don't want people to even see you use them This let you know that not being crass. That's what he's saying. That's what he's saying. Yeah, no, dude This is so hopeful for me What he says is and I'm gonna just read it. He says if anyone if anyone cleanses themselves from what is dishonorable

Then they will become a vessel fit for honorable use now notice you notice the word anyone. Okay, so dude Here's what I love. Okay, so Well, we'll say a lot of times is that that word condemnation It's a builder's term. It literally just means unfit for you So if you drive by a bunch of condemned houses actually do you have that? I'll try to get that Get on camera if you drive by a bunch of condemned houses go and talk keep toss that That little condemned picture right there. So you'll see it like a condemned home will literally have this thing on it This is what right right there. It says condemned as unfit for human occupancy or use and When you see that Bible word condemned it literally is just a builder's term It means unfit for use and so I brought a lot of this so much man What Satan is always gonna do is how somebody condemns the house is a building inspector comes by and it'll look at something That's jacked up with the house be like ah foundations cracked. Ah, there's asbestos in there You know, we got rotted framing and we go because of that condemned because of that condemned because of that unfit for use unfit for use I'm fit for use and you just gotta know that's exactly what Satan's gonna do in your life It's he's gonna find one thing in your life that either was or is jacked up and he's gonna point out and he's go Hey man, you know, I'm not I'm pointing at Paul, but I don't mean Paul. He's gonna point at you listener He's got porn addiction unfit for use had an abortion unfit for use divorced unfit for use You guys got an anxiety problem unfit for use and do I love this so much? Because what this passage says is it says it says if anyone If anyone cleanses themselves from things that are dishonorable Then they will be useful to the master of the house for something that is significant a noble use, okay? so What God does is he comes by and he just says hey man There is therefore now no condemnation Romans 8 you are fit for use you're gonna be fit for use And I just want to remind you man, what you'll notice all throughout the Bible is this is God is not determining your Usefulness based on what you were but based on what you will be yeah So you run through the whole Bible and you're gonna see this thing you got no was a drunk Jacob was a thief Joseph was a convict Moses was a murderer Samson was a bully

Gideon was a coward David was an adulterer Solomon was a womanizer Elijah had anger issues Jonah was a racist Jeremiah was depressed Mary was a pregnant teenager Peter was a hypocrite Matthew was an extortionist Thomas was a doubter Paul was a terrorist Guys not determined on how he's gonna use you based on what you were. He's gonna determine it based on what you will be if anyone Cleanses themselves from what is dishonorable. They can be used by the master for honorable use. It's usually in all the way in It's awesome. Now. I got a lot more. There's a bunch of about words use your words. There's so much But any thoughts yeah, I mean just encourage you if you're out there and that hits you My mind went to first John where it says anyone who says they're without sends a liar That's right, but it says but if we confess our sin that's right He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sin. So he forgives us, but then he cleanses. So if you're listening to this, you're like, "Confess your sense of God." And know that he is a God who loves and longs to forgive and then to cleanse and to restore. - Yes. - I was actually thinking about the restoration of Peter. And you just mentioned Peter's name. We got to go there to where he was restored. And he thinks he's all big and bold in that he actually overestimated his faith. Peter's mistake was overestimating it. Jesus knew where he was at. And so Jesus said, "No, I'm gonna pray for you." And after you restored, come back, kind of thing. And I just love it. And I'm like, "Jesus expected less from Peter than he did from himself." I'll say that again. It sounds harsh, but he expected less from Peter than Peter did from himself.

'Cause Jesus knew before Peter it was everyone on this earth, every mistake he'd ever make, including denying him three times. And yet Jesus still signed up for Peter. - That's right. - 'Cause he knew what he was signing up for. So I'll just say this to you out there. If he failed, especially could be years ago or recently, Jesus knew what he was signing up for when he signed up to die for you. - That's right. - Confess your sin, let him forgive you and cleanse you. And now move into what God has for you. - Amen. - Amen. - Dude, let me just say one more thing on this passage. 'Cause at a practical discipleship level and how it affects your family, this is probably the most important thing in the passage. There is more in here about words, what words you use, how you use your words, than bro, literally anything else. Hey, live free nation. Let's have fun with this. Let's swing some elections in all seriousness. Mid-term elections are obviously coming up in November. In the state of Texas, there's an estimated 16 million Christians and the midterm elections coming up in November will be decided by a predicted, actually about 300,000 votes. So what this means is if Christians do their job

as salt and light in the world, good things really easily happen. So what we've done to live free nation is we actually built a website to help mobilize Christians to do our job as salt and light. And society. So you can simply text the word vote to the number 2041, text the word vote to 2041. And we have built a website all at our own expense to help Christians remember to vote leading up into the midterms because the number one reason that Christians don't vote, especially in mid-term elections is they just forgot. So with one text, vote to 2041. You will get one text which is a link to the website where you can put in your address. We do not keep any of the information and it will tell you where the polling location is for voting in your area, when to come and what in your area you need to bring. Again, we keep absolutely none of the data and we will send you that text and then only one other reminder text right before midterms. So let's have some fun with this. Text vote to 2041 and we'll see what live free nation can do. It's very interesting. When he says in this passage, I'm gonna read it. Verse 22, he says, "Flee youthful passions." I was meditating on this this week. "What are youthful passions?"

It's all the stuff that senior saints look at younger people and go, "That's real dumb." For real. I was trying to, I was going, "How do I preach this?" I was like, "This is how, it's all the stuff that when you get older, you look back and you're like, "That was dumb." You know, it's like the 70 year old guy that looks like a guy that looks at a guy who's chasing skirt everywhere and he's like, "Bro, that's so dumb. Do you have any idea what you're doing?" It's senior saints. They look at younger guys who just, they love to fight. They just want to fight all the time. Argue about everything. And they just kind of chuckle at you and you're like, "That's so dumb. That's so dumb." It's just getting worked up about stuff. You shouldn't just get worked up about. Or, and here's the big one, what you'll notice is that older, more mature senior saints, they're very careful with their words. So when Paul says, "Flee youthful passions." It's like, what's the stuff that the old people think is dumb? And one of them is words, and I just want to point this out, this little theology of words. So it's really interesting.

So if you get, so you get the beginning of the Bible, God creates in Genesis one, and he literally creates with words, right? What there be like, there was like, boom, creates words. We are created in the image of a God who creates with words. Now, all I'm all out on word of faith, name it, claim it, blah, but grab it, I'm all out, okay. But there is something to the fact that we are created in the image of God who creates with words. That means our words have a power that we probably do not fully understand. In fact, I'll just say it. I think that's what Proverbs 18, 21 means when it says death and life are in the power of the tongue. - A big statement. - And those who love it will eat as fruits. So here's what that verse means, okay? Every time you speak, it says eat its fruits. Every time you speak, it's like you're planting seeds, and it's not gonna happen overnight, but it will happen over time. All those things you speak are gonna grow up into something, either death or life. And one way or another, someday you're gonna eat exactly what you planted. That, by the way, that verse is literally where Do you know that? That came from Proverbs 18, 21. You're gonna eat your words, that came from right of that.

So what I would say is, let me just apply it to like marriages and kids real quick. Death and life are in the power of your tongue. Very interesting, by the way, that when the Holy Spirit falls in Acts 2, the first thing He does is He affects their tongues. That's very interesting, very interesting to me, okay? So I'll just give you a little analogy. We use an hour to house and then you're gonna talk about how to study the Bible, it's gonna be great. The reason this passage talks so much about using our words, here's the analogy we use. Death and life. Chedgy Paul sees heard this before on exec team retreat. The low analogy we use of the Howardan house is, we say we're hummingbirds and not buzzards. And this may sound real dumb to you, I'm telling you, this has changed your family. We say we're hummingbirds and not buzzards, okay? So here's the difference. A hummingbird can be flying over an entire desert of dead things. It will see one living flower and it will descend on the one living thing and pass over a whole ocean of dead things. A buzzard will do the exact opposite. A buzzard can fly over a whole field that's all life. It'll see one dead carcass and descend on the one, it'll pass over all the living good things and descend on the one dead bad thing.

And listen, I'm just gonna tell you, if you're a dead, your tongue, there is life and death in the power of your tongue. You are either gonna have a hummingbird tongue with your wife and with your children or you're gonna have a buzzard tongue with your life with your wife and with your children. Either you will be the type of man, husband, and father who looks at your wife and you'll be like, "Hey man, there's a lot of stuff wrong." But I see a few things, right? And that's what I'm gonna choose to focus my words on. And here's what you're gonna notice. When you choose to direct your words towards that, the living things start to grow. Or you're the type of man who death is in the power of your tongue. And you walk in the house and, bro, there is so much glory in your kids, in your wife, in your family. But your tongue passes over all the good things and it's constantly talking about the one dead thing, you got a buzzard tongue. And I'm just gonna warn you right now, life and death are in the power of your tongue. And I'll say this, heads up, Dad, your kids are either going to live up to the blessings of your tongue or they will live down to the curses that come for your tongue. - Say one more time. - Your kids will either live up to the blessings that come from your tongue or they will live down to the curses that come from your tongue. There's your warning. That's why there's so much in here

about how we use our words and our families and our churches, it matters. - So good, thank you. - Now Paul, part of this passage, this is most frequently asked question that we get. Part of this passage, it says study to show yourself approved. A workman unto God, quote, rightly dividing the word of truth. - Yeah. - Okay. That's a big deal. And one of the most frequently asked questions we get on this podcast is, how the heck do you guys get that stuff out of the Bible that I never see when I'm reading it? So I'll just, let's do this real quick. Let's, like, we want to equip people to be good workmen unto God. - Yep. - So Chachi Paul, see, you want to run us through real quick, like three or four ways to study your Bible? - Yeah, when people ask me this question, man, how did you learn all this sort of thing? I always tell them, like, there's nothing special about you, me or Carlos. The difference between you and someone that you look up to who really knows the Bible is time and intentionality. - In fact. - Time and intentionality. It takes time. I am the sum accumulation of about 47,000 meals that I've had in terms of just physically. Can't remember but a handful of them, but I'm the sum total of all of them. In the same way, I mean, you, the three of us are,

I'd say, we're the sum total of all the times we've read God's word. We mainly remember a handful of those times that really stick out to us, but man, over time the accumulation, it just adds up. The intentionality part is really important as well. So it's not just, I'm going to flip open to a random page and see what they are like. No, like an intentional plan is going to work better than a half hazard one. And so I have some people like you want to be doing two things and I'll give you four study methods to do these two things. You want to, number one, be exposing your stuff to as much of scripture as possible over the course of a year or two. - That's right. - A reading plan, it can be a year or two, it could be a three year plan, but that's where you're going to be reading more scripture at runs, just to be exposed to as much scripture as possible. - Or you could download the Lake Point app. - Yeah, or then we will send you our daily Bible reading plan. - I got the plan for you. - Sically by texting the word app to the number 2041. - Wow, that was great. - That's how it goes, that was right there. - I learned for you. - That's how it goes, that's how it goes, that's it. Wow, wow, just commemorate that moment that just happened. That was amazing.

(laughing) - Put the thing on the microphone right here. - I'm sorry. - Oh and then number two, number two, can I bring it as back? - The number two, man, go deep on a book or two of the Bible, you're a topic, and do both of those. - Yes. - I tell people, this seems like insane, but I'm like, if you will do that every year, if every year we're exposed to it, Baba reading plan, and you will pick a book or two of the Bible or a theme or two of the Bible and go deep in them. In the course of two to three decades, you could have insanely, I hate to say master the Bible, but you'll be like there. You would have exposed yourself to the depths of scripture, and you'll be a fundamentally different person because of that. So those two kind of broad based approaches expose yourself to a lot, but then go deep in a few, but then yours for good methods of how to do that. I don't want to walk people through them and really focus in on two of them. Cause two of the methods, it's best if you get a book and I'll recommend some, but two will walk step by step. What you got? No, I was just going to say, as you do these stuff, sir, people are listening. Here's what I'd say. I'm going to say two things. One people might, they may hear four and they may go, well, hey, Paul, which one's the best one? I'm going to go on and answer this question. Okay. When people, it's the same thing. What I say is Bible study methods are like diets. What's the best diet? The one you'll do or go into Israel and getting a stomach bug. What's the best diet? The one you'll do? What's the best way to study the Bible? The one you'll do. So just pick the one that you, that you do now, the other thing I'll say where our personalities might be different is you're probably on your Myers Briggs. I won't even ask you.

Do you remember what your last letter is? You might get it wrong. I'm a P. You're a P. Okay. I'm a, okay. Me too. Yeah. Okay. What do you, you know, I'm a J as well. Okay. Okay. So like, which means you guys are more like gut, gut feeling versus like, sometimes I think, I think that's right. Here's, well, I make it this wrong. Here's what I've, what I've been told that it means is like J's is like, let me get the thing that I like to do and I'll just do the same thing over and over and over and over. Honestly, for me, what'll happen is I'll do one of these. And then honestly, I'm going to shoot you real straight. I get bored. I'm serious. I get bored of doing the same thing every day. And then I just switch. Yep. So it's like, what I would say is which one's best one, the one you'll do. And then if one starts lagging on you, we'll just switch. Just keep yourself interested. Now you want to tell us four ways. Yeah. I've got actually a chart for you. We love charts. I love the chart. No, it's going to lay out the four methods. Nope. Not that one. We'll do the one that lays out all the different. Yeah. The Bible study methods right there for methods, devotional, inductive, deductive, and biblical theology. Okay. I'm going to walk through just briefly each of these and then we'll double click specifically on devotional inductive and kind of walk you step by step into this methods. But each of these serves a different purpose is in really there about different questions you're asking. So devotional, this is best for your bread and butter Bible reading. This is really asking the question of how can I respond to what God has said today by reading the word of God today? How can I read it? So this is also great for it. Like when I'm trying to take in a lot of scripture at a time, this is me. I'm going to sit down. This is probably more like 10 to 15 minutes, maybe up to 30. So this is best for your daily Bible reading. I said, people, if you can do this one three to four days a week, it's a great thing to do. Inductive is really more where I go. Go ahead. You're going to explain how to do them. Yeah, I'm going to explain how to do them. I'm going to come back through and then actually explain how to do them. Inductive Bible study is where I'm

asking the question, what does this passage communicate? This is a little bit more of in-depth Bible study, kind of think of it this way. Whereas devotional Bible study is more like, hey, I got 10 to 15 minutes, maybe up to 30. In-depth Bible study or in-depth of Bible study is more like, man, 30 to 40, maybe even up to 60 minutes of your time. This is great for diving deep into a passage or if you're wanting to study the book of the Bible. So we've been going through 2 Timothy, you could do that on your own and just take a little bit of it at a time, 30 minutes up to 60 minutes and just being honest with you to your point, I'm probably not going to do that every day. Most people don't have time for that every day. So for me, I'm going to do like as much as I can every day, more of a devotional reading that short asking God, what do you have to say to me through this today? Inductive is then maybe once or twice a week, I'm going to go deep. And again, if you do that over the long haul, it really adds up. Big time. Deductive is really more of the idea of like systemality or- Oh, wait, work quick. Is inductive? That's K Arthur's old thing, right? Yes, I've got a book right here. She's still living in the Bible. She's still living. I don't know, actually. Dude, Janna devoured K Arthur inductive Bible study method. She still does it sometimes. She popularized the approach probably. Go ahead and give a plug. She passed away. She told you Jesus. Okay. This is how to study your Bible by K Arthur. Great resource. So we're going to give just a little bit of a brief starter course for people. But if you want to go deeper, this is a great book. 170 pages will take you deeper into it. Deductive Bible study is more of the idea like, hey, there's big topics and themes in the Bible. And we're asking, what does the whole Bible have to say about that given topic? So instead of looking at an individual passage, say, what is God trying to communicate through this specific passage? It's saying, hey, what does the whole Bible say about hope? Yeah. What does the whole Bible say about the Trinity or about any given topic? This is where I'd say, hey, it's best if you get a guide to help you. Someone who's written a systematic theology. So I've got here, Wayne Grudem, systematic theology is a great one. Also, John Nielsen's knowing truth. Personal opinion. Every Christian dad should have a copy of that's your go-to when your kid asks a question that you don't know how to answer, here's what you do. You say, I don't know, but I'm gonna find you the answer and you go right at that boat. - Exactly.

And so we have to give you an idea like the last year to have really wanted to dive deep back into the Trinity. And so what I do is I take a book like Wayne Gritoms or others, and I'll use that as a guide, but here's the key. So you're not just reading Wayne Gritoms or words, you wanna get into the word, is you'll read his stuff, but then what'll happen is, in all the stuff he's writing, you'll see Bible references and verses. Then go look 'em up and read it for yourself. That's the key, otherwise you're just taking his word for it, you actually wanna go to the word and see what it says. - All right bro, I'm gonna just go, go ahead. So one of the things that people will listen to the podcast and be like, bro, how do you guys do that? So the stuff he did at the beginning about oil press, and it was used for four different things, and then he starts connecting, I'm gonna use a big theological word, Christologically in how the four uses of oil throughout the scriptures are fulfilled in Christ. Okay, how you get that is through deductive Bible study. So this is one thing we may talk about in a second. One of the things that frequently blows my mind is all very intentionally chase rabbit trails. So I may talk about this in a second, like I'm reading, I'm in numbers, and the other day I'm in like numbers four, and it keeps insisting that the entrance to the tabernacle face east.

So honestly dude, here's what I do. I'm in my Bible study, and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna chase the rabbit trail. - That's a great question. - Okay, I'm gonna trace the rabbit trail, and I just start digging in, what is the theological significance of the directions east and west of the Bible, and I don't know if I have time, just in a blue my mind. - It's insane. - I'm like, I got, I got, it was like, hands up, tears down, worship pouring out of my heart, just chasing the rabbit trail on Tuesday morning. What's the theological significance of east and west of the Bible? That's deductive Bible study. - Yes, yeah, oh, I gotta be careful. You're gonna make me chase rabbit? - No, don't do it, don't do it. - For example, that's where you can see, oh yeah, like the garden of Eden and the tabernacle are modeled almost exactly the same in terms of directions they're facing, how it's constructed, cherubim, all the things. But again, if you have a guide like Wayne Grudem, you're like, how do we learn this stuff from other people? We learn it, but then you saturate yourself in, you go into the word and it's amazing. You know, again, here's a,

two practical encourages of some of this, then I'm gonna give the fourth category, and let's double click on soap and inductive, and give people kind of a starter core so they can get going on their own. Which is a practical thing. I actually find for like deductive, more like top of core systematic study, if you know how to use AI, it can actually be really helpful right here. - Fact, you got to double check it. - You got to double check it? - But fact, but obviously that's true if you know how to use it. - This is where it's like, hey, can you get me all the relevant Bible verses on, and then you give it a topic that you wanna do? So even like I know for some people, they kind of have like, here's my word for the year that I feel like God has given me. A great thing you could do is then chat GPT it or whatever, say, hey, what does the Bible have to say about your word, and then spend that year diving into those verses on that word? It's a great way to do a more deductive study. - This is what I did on the East and West thing. - Yeah. - I'm literally sitting there and I'm grok-ing. God got grok expert. And I'm like, list for me every theologically significant verse that mentions the directions East and West and the Old and New Testaments.

And that's literal, I just sit there and I'm doing my, I'm looking up in my actual physical Bible, so I'm making sure I'm not relying on the AI. And that's all of a sudden, I'm like, like my mind's like being filled by glory. - It's amazing. When again, begin, put the pieces now, and give the last of the method is for me, most days I'm trying to do a more devotional study, trying to expose myself to the word as often as possible asking God, what do you have to say to me today, through your word, once and for all? But then, maybe just a couple of times a week, I'm gonna go more into that deductive study and go a little bit deeper and it adds up over the course of the year. Final category, biblical theology. This is actually a really fun one. This is asking the question of, hey, how does a particular theme develop across scripture? So I'm gonna say like, when people hear about the connections you make Carlos between the old and New Testament, Pastor Josh, you did the amazing thing the same way, this is biblical theology. It's taking something that is a theme and it starts in the Old Testament, but then shows how it's fulfilled by Christ and the New Testament. - Which is in every single page of the Bible.

- It's insane. - Every single page. - There are multiple layers on every single page of Bible. - Oh, it's crazy one, even to help people understand, like one reason, for example, that the book of Revelation is really difficult for people, in addition to it just having a lot of symbolism and symbolic language in it. It is Old Testament saturated. And because people don't know the Old Testament as well, it's hard for them and then it catch these things that's alluding to all the time. But again, this is a method. It's great to have a guide. So a couple of books, God's Big Picture by Von Roberts is a great introductory one. And then also, Tracing God's Story is a good one was great about this one. My daughter and I have started going through his systematic theology together, is every chapter he'll take you to the theme, but then he actually gives you reading assignments from the Bible. So again, you're not simply reading John Nielsen's word, he is gonna make you read the word. And I think you had another recommendation, right? - I do, because I'm too dumb to read Paul's books a lot of times. This is a, So honestly, if you're going to, my opinion, if you want to do one and you're like, "Hey man, I'm trying to figure out the Bible..."

This is how I'm kind of new to this thing. What are they even talking about? Like how the Old Testament and New Testament relate and where do they get all that mind-blowing stuff? In my opinion, that's where you start. It's called Epic of Eden by Sandra Richter. That book's stinking blew my mind. The first time I read it, you'll never reach the Bible, same again. - Yeah, so I'll just pick one of these resources we've given. If you want to do one of these other study methods, use them as just a guide. But again, I can't emphasize enough, don't just read their words, read the words. If you see one of those references, go look them up. Now, let's do maybe a quick walkthrough of soap in the industrial study to actually just show you how to do this. So we've got the graphic for soap up there. Soap is simply, you know, it's an Instagram that stands for scripture, observation, application, and then prayer. So if you're not watching this, I'd highly encourage you to do it later. Maybe you can also put this in the guide as well. I've got up there even recommendations of how long you spend on each of these sections. So the idea is like, for me, I've got my Bible open. I've got a Bible reading plan that I'm coming out of. I've got my Bible open.

Usually I have a journal and a pen, so I can say focus and not get on my phone. And I get distracted by my phone. And so for me, then I'm gonna just simply follow S-O-A-P. So scripture, choose a passage. And I usually encourage people, read it slowly at least once. Read it slowly. Don't skim through it really fast. Just read it slowly and intentionally at least once. And then for me, this is more of a recommendation than you have to. Write a verse that stands out to you. A verse for a phrase. And even often what I'll do, and this is important is to say actually, but the first thing you need to do before you do anything is just stop and pray for a moment. And just recognize. You talk about God, the words are important. The idea is like, God spoke the universe into existence. And that same God spoke this word into existence and he wants to speak to me. And so all of a sudden I say, what do you have to say to me today? So I'm gonna read it slowly. Usually the thing is, is there any phrase or verse that sticks out to me? Then there's observation. Here's a mistake a lot of people make. A lot of people will immediately then say, what does this mean to me?

- Yeah, who cares? Nobody cares. - Terrible question. It does not matter what it means to you. It matters what does it mean. - That's right. - Period, once and for all. So in observation, you're really asking yourself, hey, what does this mean? What did he mean to say once and for all? So you're gonna ask a few questions, like, hey, what's happening in the passage? What does the passage reveal about God or about people? And you're like, also noting words that stick out as, hey, is he saying these words about it? So you're simply spending five or six minutes simply saying, hey, like, what seems to be like the main message, the main things that are being communicated here? Don't worry about, by the way, if you get everything. This is devotional reading. You're not trying to write a thesis. You're simply trying to get a few basic things. Then there's applications. This is where you ask, not does it mean to me, but actually what does it mean for me? So there's what does it mean? And then you're asking, okay, based on what it means, what does that mean for me? How do I actually live differently in light of this?

So you can ask some of these questions. How does this truth meet my life right now? Is there something that I need to believe or change or do? And here's what I used to encourage people, choose one specific thing. If you have multiple things, great. But simply say, hey, if one thing changed today about what I believe or what I do or how I feel based on this passage, what would it be? And then the final thing, P, is prayer. Take a moment, thank God for what you learned and ask him for the grace to apply, the thing that he showed you. Anything that you guys would weigh in on this and say and you will click on? - On the observation. I mean, that's the word that we use traditionally for observation and kind of application a little bit is the word meditation. That's the word, the Baimo uses. And I mean, this is from Psalm 1. Blessed is the man who's delight is in the law of the Lord. And on this law, he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields his fruit in its season and its leaf does not weather. In all that he does, he prospers that word to meditate in Hebrews, the word arach, which is literally the same word that the prophet Isaiah uses when he's talking about a lion growling over its prey.

So in the same way that you see a lion looking at its prey and it's growling and it's kind of pondering and it's looking at it and it's about to eat it, that's how Christians are called to approach scripture. We look at scripture and we meditate, we ponder it, we're hungry for it. And basically that's what you just described Paul on observation. It's good. You think Pastor Joshua would have an emotional reading and so? - Yeah, a couple things real quick. So here's, I just wanna highlight a couple things you said. First of all, man, like developing this habit will be arguably the most important thing you ever do. - Yes. - Because I'll just say the same thing I say all the time, man. It starts out sounding sacrilegious, but just stick with me. Praying is not powerful. Reading the Bible is not powerful. Going to church is not powerful. Singing a song is not powerful. You know what is powerful? Reading the Bible every day, that's powerful. Praying daily, that's powerful. Going to church every week, that'll change your life. So it's the thing over time. When it comes to observation for me, a lot of times for some reason for me, the number is 30. I'll sit down and I'll read like a passage and I'll just go, okay, I'm gonna make 30 observations.

I mean, like, Paul's talking to Timothy. That's an observation. This is the fourth time in this book, he said this. I'll just force myself to do 30. And I just, you know, I get, my brain does this thing. So if I can have a pin right there and force myself to do it, like, okay, 30, it just gets it, my heart marinating in it. Now, to what Carlos just said, you know, I've heard the little analogy before, you got the example from the scriptures that the word is like a sword. You got that analogy. Do you want to grip a sword with five fingers? So here's what I'll kind of do sometimes. There's like five ways that I want to interact with the Bible and they kind of all flow into these different study methods. You want to read the words. All five fingers grip the sword. Here's the five fingers. Read the word, study the word, memorize the word, meditate on the word, pray the word. If I can get those five, I'm gripping the sword with all five fingers, okay? So, and then when it comes to meditate, really meditation is like a prayerful form of what you just said. So like, this is two days ago, I just needed it. I took my little long walk and I got my live fun note with a bunch of lyrics of hymns.

I look like a great, I wish I had a church member stop and be like, are you okay? They saw me because they see me. I'm like crying out to the Lord, you know, they're like, you okay? Yeah, I'm worshiping. You're like, leave, I'm busy. Hey man, there's things you see. - Mind your own business. - Things you think what you don't say and you know. - I love you about it. - Yeah, Jesus loves you. - But so meditate, it's like meditating. It really goes back to, it's a prayerful form of what Paul's talking about. It's like meditating, I'm meditating on that passage. Can't remember which number. Oh God, you are my God. It's like, I'll just sit there. So really what I'm doing is making prayerful observations. I'm just going, oh God, man, I'm just stopping. Man, you are a Lord. You are sovereign over the universe. You own the cattle on a thousand hills. Not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from him. I'm just like naming and saying back to him the aspects of his godness. Now I go to the next word, you are my God. Man, I have been adopted by my heavenly father.

It's not just that I'm yours, it's that you're mine. You're my God. This is a covenant, you know. And then earnestly I see. So, but these, here's what I'm, you know, what I'm driving at is these are prayerful observations about the text is what we're driving at. - So good. - Yeah, let's keep going. - So good. Yeah, let me talk, walk through the inductive. We're shooting and take a long time because actually soap and the inductive method are really similar. Again, devotion reading, the point is usually it's shorter and mainly it's, hey, I do want to know what the text means. Not what it means to me, what it means. But it usually is driven towards, hey God, what do you have to say to me today? - That's right. - Based my reading plan. Whereas inductive study is really more, you're doing a deep dive into a passage, usually in the book of the Bible in context and you're going to walk through it a little bit at a time because you're just trying to be a person who masters the word and can handle the word correctly. But you'll see a similar pattern in that inductive study moves from observation to interpretation to application. So again, different letters than before of soap,

but it's still a lot of the same stuff. It's observation, interpretation and then application. So again, here's what people, hey, read, choose one complete passage. So for example, if we read in Second Timothy, we would do the passage this week and you're going to read that passage slowly for this one, I'd say two to three times. So before it was like, hey, read it once, if it's more devotional, if you're going in depth, read it two to three times depending on the length of the passage. Then what you're doing on the observation is you're marking repeated and important words. You're like, man, the Apostle Paul seems to talk about words a lot. - That's right. - He says the word teach a lot. Okay, that seems to be really significant. Let me circle that, highlight it or whatever it is. Look for contrast and commands and reasons. Like if Paul or whoever it is and one of the books is giving commands, okay, write that down. What is the command that he's given? You mentioned, I love the observation thing. It sounds simple, but like, that's important. It's like what I do, if you looked at my journal when I'm writing stuff, it's usually not as profound as people would think. It's literally, I'm just trying to catch up, hey, Paul commands this.

He says this kind of a thing. And then I would say for this one, write down at least five. So you went 30, you did six times more than me. You're like advanced level compared to me kind of a thing. But it's like, write at least-- - Professional pastor over here. - Write at least five observations. Then investigate. This is where you're gonna ask questions that are raised by whatever you have been reading. So ask questions. This is one of the best ways to learn. So if you don't understand it, begin asking questions. Why does Paul say this like this? Hey, why does he mention their names? You're just asking questions and you may not even be able to answer them at first. And this is where it's helpful I find to have a good study Bible. Now, I do tell people on this, don't go there first. - What's your recommendation on study Bible? - The ESV Study Bible is amazing. N-A-S-B Study Bible is fantastic as well. Those are my any besides those two. - ESV is the one that I typically go to. I've got a MacArthur Study Bible that I like. - Yep, yep, yep. - And I tell people, don't go there. But then you're like, hey, like, I don't, I still don't get it. That's where having that good study Bible is a helpful tool for you.

Yeah, and I will say this, Paul, because honestly, to, for me, this is probably one of the ways that I've grown the most, like over time, just I have a lot of questions. Yeah, you know, I just that when every single, literally, I think every single day, when I read my Bible, it's question after question. Like today I was reading this morning, the temptation of Jesus, and it says that Jesus was in the desert with Satan, and then it says that Satan took Jesus to the top of the temple. And I'm like, wait a minute, I've been there now. So I know that the desert's over here, but the temple's like literally the day, like tele transport, like, so that's a question that I have. And like, again, I think some people get discouraged because when they read it, they're like, man, I don't understand it. Well, did you write down the questions that you have? Because that's that's how you moved from not knowing towards finding the right answer. Exactly. If you write, write down the questions and then go look for the answers. This is usually the place that's going to take you the longest is you're writing down the questions and then you're going after the answers. But you got a guide to help you go ahead. It's usually where you get the best. It is where you get the best. That's usually where you get the best. I'm so glad you said that. That's a really key thing is shallow Bible study to in depth Bible say this is the difference is where you will ask the questions and then take the time to go look for the answers yourself. OK, then finally, let's begin wrapping this up summarizing it. This is where I encourage people when you're doing more in-depth study for the particular text or passage you've got, try to summarize the author's main point in one to two sentences, Max, keep it simple.

Keep it in your language. Don't try. You're not impressing anybody. This is for you. But summarize and say, if I could boil all this down and see what's the main point of this and want to do sentences, then that's good. And then respond. Then you are asking, Hey, again, what should I believe? How should I change in light of this? Here's what I'd tell people for this or for soap. Here's the analogy I use. Remember when you when we were growing up and we had to write five paragraph essays. The idea that they were doing is, Hey, they're trying to teach us how do I introduce something I want to say, how do I write some things to support it? And then how do I conclude the argument? Since you learned how to write a five paragraph essay, have you ever written one again? No, no, but what stayed with you, you over time, the more they forced you to do it, it became second hand to where now you still got the same concepts. But now you just do it without thinking about the five paragraph essay. Same thing for these methods, whether it's soap or the more inductive thing of observation, interpretation, application, when you begin to do this, it may have to be a little bit more rigid. And you may even write out those words beside them and then fill them in your paper. You will begin to do this naturally. It'll just become part of who you are and what you do. That's part of the game. It takes time. If you need some more help, again, a great book, especially for the inductive study is either How to Study Your Bible by K. Arthur, but there's also a great one called a noble word by Peter Crow.

And what I love that he does is throughout the book is about 160 pages. He takes you through the same passage in Genesis and he says, OK, this chapter is on observation. Here's how to do it. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah, all right. Here's here's here's a little case study. He does a case study and it's the same passage. So then it's like, here's interpretation. He teaches you some tools and it's like, all right, now go do it. And so that's a really good one that I'd recommend as well. All right. Any anything on those things that you think are left out or be good to give some. Yeah, I mean, just just to see what you just said, Paul, you know, obviously, as you keep studying it, learning more things matters. It is important. It is necessary. I think we have a responsibility. We have a faith that seeks understanding. That's a good thing. But I think also having the right posture after your heart is also essential. Yes, because when you look at scripture, the Bible says that Satan and demons actually know their Bible quite a bit. Today you will find atheists that have a lot of degrees, more than probably the three of us combined that actually are not in team Jesus. And so when you do read it, you know, I would just say three things. You read it and you study it with a heart that is reverent. The Bible says in ICS 66 that this is the one to whom I will look. So God is saying, I'm going to pay attention to this person. He who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.

And so when you open up, when you study, when you do all the books, when you read all the things, make sure that you have a heart that is literally trembling. This is like God Almighty speaking to me right now. Read it with expectation. Ultimately, Paul, you said this is God speaking to you. He's going to not just speak to you in a generic way, but this is your heavenly father giving you a word that you need for today. It is your daily bread. And then the last thing I would say read it humbly. Second Timothy chapter three, oh, scripture that's God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training and righteousness so that the servant of God that's you and me may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. We don't go to scripture and study it. So it affirms what I wanted to say. We go to it so that it corrects us and so that we can be grown. We don't go just to be informed. We go to be transformed. We don't want you to think free. The whole point is for you to actually live free. So that's it, man. So good man. Last thing I'll say, and then we're going to talk about this kid having a vision of Jesus. That's what we're doing. which you should do an inductive Bible study on it. - There you go. - And figure out what you think, 'cause actually, so here's how we'll point out, really all we do every episode is we're basically doing this. - Yes. - You're listening to three dudes that like the Bible

and like Jesus a whole lot, just doing a Bible says, all we're doing, it's hilarious, I don't think people will figure that out. I'll just give an example. So I'll give an example of how like, okay man, how does it work? And then how does it pull worship out of your heart? We're like, that changed me this morning. So the other day, I'll just give the example of the East West thing. So I'm in numbers, not the reputation for the most riveting book in the Bible, but it's numbers. And you know, there's all these complex instructions about how to set up the tent. You know, it's like basically the first few chapters are like an Ikea instruction manual. - Which we all love. - Which all of us love are very fun. - But I kept, so here's an example that if you're listening to this, you're like, okay bro, I want to get into the word. How do I need to think? This is an example. So I'm reading the Ikea instructions they got inspired and they keep doing this thing where he keeps going. Hey, the entrance to the tabernacles got to be to the East and it over and over says toward the sunrise. Now, I'll just, here's a heads up. When you're reading your Bible, if you see something that doesn't make sense,

usually spiritual. I'm just going to tell you this, like 99% of the time, if you read something, you're like, ah! If it doesn't make sense, usually spiritual. So I did exactly what Paul just talked about. I go into inductive, deductive study. Inductor, yeah. Which one's the one where you take the theme across the whole Bible? - Yeah, that's a deductive. - Deductive and biblical theology, a little bit of both. - Deductive study. So I pull out handy dandy grock expert and I did the thing. Give me every, this is literally a question I asked it. Give me every passage in the Bible that carries theological significance around the directions East and West. So then it just, now it gives me the passages. Now I'm not relying on AI to give me the meaning. It just point me the passage. So then I go to the passages. Okay, bro, this, so I'm like worshiping my heart out, reading IKEA instructions on Tuesday because okay, here's what you get. Like first of all, apparently this is a huge theme in the Bible. Literally I learned, I was today years old before I figured this out. Okay, so dude, basically throughout the entire Bible it's the direction of the presence of God moves East to West.

Okay, the entire, and then it culminates in a way that's called dead gum, blow your mind. So you got in Genesis, Eden's in the East and then when they get kicked out of Eden the presence of God departs out of Eden and they put the little flaming sword on that little angel. - The chair of them, yeah. - Yeah, the chair of them right there. And the exit to Eden that it was guarding or the entrance is on the East side. So the glory departed out the East. So towards the East, okay. In Genesis, bro, this is nuts. In Genesis, as they're rebelling against God for like the first 15 chapters, if you trace where they move as they rebel they're moving East, East, East, East. So remember the presence of God moves East to West. They're moving West to East. They're moving away, okay, so. So they're moving East East and then the hinge point of Genesis, God calls Abraham. He's like, I'm a reverse little trend. Guess who's the one dude who starts reversing the flow? Abraham, he calls Abraham out of the East and Abraham is now moving West is where God calls. Okay, now you go a little deeper. Then you start reading IKEA instructions, okay. I read my IKEA instructions in Leviticus and Numbers and the tabernacle always has to face

the East and then it specifically says toward the sunrise. Now remember that here's the theme. All this is gonna crescendo here in a second. It's gonna blow your mind. It's gonna make you wanna study your Bible. So now remember, the whole flow of the tabernacle is East to West, always. So the entrance is on the East and the Holy of Holies in the Ark of the Covenant where the glory of God dwells in highest density, it's on the farthest West side, okay. So you're flowing East to West. Then bro, New Testament. Well, first of all, you get these prophecies how someday there's gonna come a son of righteousness with healing in his wings. Where's the sunrise guys? In East, okay. Then you get in the New Testament, the Magi when they're coming, they follow a star out of the East and they come West and who's there? Jesus. Then dude, you get in the New Testament. I'm learning all this. I'm today years old learning this on Tuesday. I can't wait to preach it someday. Then when the New Testament talks about the return of Christ, I'm gonna read the verse.

For as lightning comes from the East and shine. we know the book of Zechariah tells us he will almost certainly his feet are going to touch down on the top of the Mount of Olives which is east of Jerusalem and row listen what the Bible is showing us is every single day every sunrise is a sermon every sunrise is a sermon wow my glory is going to return it's going to return from the east and it's going to go to the West you will see it with your eyes mm-hmm now bro all that is me sitting outside of my stupid little rocking chair just chasing a little rabbit trail I wonder why the IKEA instructions said east and all of a sudden I'm finished and just glory I'm just like glory streaming down my face why because the word of God is living and active yes and sharper than any two-edged sword piercing and dividing a sunder there it is so do you know I will study your study your life all right we got a video now all right let's do this we'll finish this up real quick but wait but before play that music one more time sure oh bro I think oh you know oh wait that's actually perfect for the whole East thing okay they are east of us there you go okay we have a video let me see Trinity let's uh so let me give you a little bit of cotton you want to introduce the video yeah here's why I want to do this we're gonna do this real quick here's why I want to do this about every three years a new book comes out this like 90 minutes in heaven I don't know if that's the actual name of a book by the way so I'm not slamming it is okay well I don't even know that book I'm not slamming anybody's specific book I'm just talking about stuff yeah or you'll hear a thing you know just some new book will come out and and dude honestly it always bothers me a little bit because I feel like people read those books and they're more excited about what that book says about heaven than what this book says about and there's like this little Christian hysteria and then honestly dude we may have somebody I'll pod sometime soon people have these they're called NDEs and your death experiences where they supposedly have visions of heaven and then this week there was a video that went like stupid mega-biral of this kid his do you have any background on this video we're about a young boy coming out of an anesthesia

after surgery for us from a skateboarding injury and the video is basically him coming out of it and he starts to say a bunch of different things about Jesus he starts to talk about his father whom apparently had passed multiple years before from cancer yeah saying that he was seeing him and he's saying it's beautiful it's pretty we're about to see it yeah you're gonna see her in a second okay so what I want here's what I want to do just real quick because I just want to use it we want to view the world through the word so when you see this stuff how should you as a Christian think think about it when you see the book on the bookshelf what should you think about it let me before we go to the video can let me just get begin with why I'm really really really cautious about books like 75 minutes I went to hell for 75 minutes let me tell you about it okay or heaven or whatever I'm really cautious for a couple reasons but then I'm gonna show you this video and we may go a direction unexpected first of all let me just point this out the Apostle Paul was we actually have a biblical example of this in the book of 2nd Corinthians the Apostle Paul was quote caught up to the third heaven by the way in your Bible when you see third heaven how the Bible does it is the first heaven are where you can see some clouds the second heaven is like what we would call outer space and the third heaven is like heaven heaven like where Jesus is that okay so this has actually happened before biblically and we know it but what's interesting is I'm just gonna read it it specifically says Paul says this that he was quote caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things watch things that no one is permitted to tell so it's interesting to me when this happened to Paul he's like man actually I can't talk about it yeah he didn't sit down and write the 112 minutes in heaven book that that's interesting to me number two none of the people Jesus raised from the dead Lazarus Jower's daughter etc none of them go on their 97 minutes in heaven speaking to her because Paul Lazarus nobody did that nobody did that I'm just point that out yeah no we got nothing from them on here's what I saw let me tell you all about it and then dude I'll tell you here's another reason I'm

really cautious about this and I'm not saying all this stuff fake I'm just telling you why I'm really cautious about it Colossians 218 very un underrated unknown verse it specifically warns against people who will try to quote disqualify you or manipulate you and it says that they quote So I just, you know, there's a pattern that that was, you start seeing here, okay? Now that said, the question we want to ask is this video, I saw a whole bunch of people I don't know posting it. What do you do with a video like this? So we just set it up. Kid, I think the kid's name is casein, casein, casein. And he's having this, what seems to be, a vision into heaven. And he says some things that you're like, well, that's kind of interesting, okay? What do we think about this? Let's check this out. - And hi, Jesus. - By the way, just wait, I'm gonna warn you right now. This is gonna wreck your heart. This is gonna wreck your heart because the kid's father had died, like Carlos mentioned, not too long ago, okay? So go back, here we go. (laughing) - You're so beautiful. - Now watch the specific things he says. I'm gonna come back to this. - He's gonna drain. Jesus, I do coming back. (laughing)

- We need you, I need you, I miss you Jesus. I said, do you see me skateboarding? He's been pathwayin' to the goal. - Oh my god. - Mom loves you guys. - She says you all the time. - Dad, you're so beautiful. I can't wait to see you. - Watch closely some of the things he says. - Can you give me a hug? I'll show you mom better. I'm gonna hug talking to you Dad. - I wish I was with you Dad. - I can hardly even do that, as a dad. - There's so many flowers and butterflies. - Watch what he says about what he's seeing and this is where I want to. - Butterflies, a lot of butterflies. - I don't have any verses for that, but I'll come back to it. - Oh my god, I'm so pretty. - Okay, just see that? God is so pretty. - Look, mark that. - Hey, look at me, he has fire eyes. - Look, mark that. - I know you'll save everyone. - Look, mark that. - Can you see now? Can you see?

- I see heaven. I have been so pretty. - Look at this, Dad, don't go away. - I can't. - I can't. - Is this normal? - Okay, hang on. - I love you Jesus, I love you God. So pretty. You can see my mom, she's so pretty. She works so hard to provide for us and I love her so much. - I literally give her the worship. - I love you better for her. - I'm sorry Jesus, are you awake now? - Jesus loves you, I was, I was finally gospel for you. - I was finally gospel for you. - Okay, it's all right, now first of all, if that doesn't make your eyes sweat, you need to check your salvation and check your pulse. As a day, I'm just gonna tell you, if you're like a younger guy and you're like, why are these guys so wrecked by that? I'm just gonna tell you, it rearranges the furniture of a man's soul when he has children. - Yes it does. - So that right there, that's gonna hit different when you got a kid or two. It's really hard for me even to slip into like Bible analyze mode, but let me do my job here.

First of all, I already gave some warnings about why I'm like cautious about this kind of thing. Let me give some other warnings before I say swing the other way. Let me just give a heads up, especially for like military guys, that kind of thing. I'm not a medical professional, I don't claim to be. I'm just saying something I've noticed. I've noticed some guys that they'll get into like psychedelics and then they'll say that they have visions or encounters with Jesus. And I'll just tell you, I've seen that go real, real, real dark. Also give a warning, the devil can do visions too. Galatians 1-8, that even if we are an angel and we're having a peer to you, I'm preaching to the gospel, let him be a curse. So the devil can do visions too. So my caveat is we do not believe every spirit, every word, every vision, we are committed to test the spirits, test the words, test the visions. Might be God, might be Satan, might be anesthesia wearing off. But let me say this, I refuse to rule out the possibility of something like that being absolutely legitimate for two reasons. In other words, watch Paul's heavenly father loved him so much they said, "Come here, buddy. Can I show you some things?" And I can totally see it in the father's heart to see a boy like that who lost his dad. And if you know the background, he also lost his grandfather and for him to go, "Hey, come here, buddy." That's not outside the father's heart according to 2 Corinthians. Due to all, so say this, it's hard for me not to watch that video and think about the verse in Acts 2, "Your young men shall see visions." Maybe what you're looking at is a young man that saw visions.

Also, let me just point out a few things. It is very interesting to me some things that kid said. He sees, "Let's grant the premise." We're not saying this, but let's grant the premise that that was legitimately an expression of the heavenly father's heart to love that kid. And he really did see some sort of realistic spiritual vision. One, he says, "Dad, you're so beautiful." Well, here's what we know. I don't know what our glorified bodies are going to look like. Another going to look glorious. That's interesting. He also says, "It's so fascinating to me, bro. That little kid. I don't even know how much of his Bible he's ever even read." And he sees God, and you see his eyes change, and he goes, "God, you're so pretty." He says it twice. He's so pretty. Revelation, book of Revelation. "After this, I looked and behold a door standing open heaven, and behold, a throne stood at heaven and one seated on the throne, God. And he who sat there had the appearance of Jasper and Carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald." Sounds real pretty to me. And then, dude, did you see that spot where he sees Jesus? And he says, "He has fire eyes." He has fire eyes. That's a verse. Revelation 19. "Then I saw heaven open and behold a white horse, and the one sitting on it was called faithful and true. And in righteousness, he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems." I'm just telling you, bro, some things you got Bible verses for now. Here's how I would do this, and you guys can disagree with me, disagree with me. I heard my feelings. If I was a pastor, visit a hospital with that kid, and I walked in, and that kid said, "Hey, pastor, I just saw this. Was that real?" Here's what I'd say. I think what I'd say is I put my hand on his shoulder, and I want to hug him and hold him. And I'd say something like, "Hey, buddy, I don't know. I don't know. But here's what I do know. Every word of the word of God is true, and you said some things that are true. Jesus does have fire in his eyes. The glory of God is more beautiful than you're ever going to be able to imagine. Heaven and hell are real, and when you understand that, you do want to spread the gospel more. And then I'd want to say, "Hey, buddy, you will see your daddy get in heaven, and you will get a hug him, and you're getting a hug Jesus too. And here's the best part, buddy. It's going to be even better than what you saw, because no, I has seen nor ear heard nor mind conceived what God has prepared for those who love him." So when I'm looking at that stuff, I'm very skeptical of 37 minutes in heaven book. Let me go on my tour, and that's just not what the Apostle Paul did. That's not what

I cannot rule out the possibility that something like that absolutely might be a legitimate expression of your young men's Chelsea visions. Agree, disagree, additional comments. No, I mean, a few things. I mean, even just to sum it up, it's like a lot of what you said. Number one, we should affirm the longing that are in people when they see something like that. We should affirm the longing. People want hope and they long for eternity because God has put eternity in the hearts of people, Scripture says. The way C.S. Lewis said is that if we have desires that nothing in this world can satisfy, it's because we were made for a different world. So we should affirm the longing. Number two, I think we should affirm the phenomenon in the sense that some near-death experiences are credible. Some are. And now they're filtered through fallen human interpretation, which is why I love what you said of the idea of no eye has seen or ears heard what God has prepared. What's amazing is that Paul wrote that in first Corinthians, and in second Corinthians he talks about this vision he had. So Paul had had this vision, and yet he basically is saying, it's even better than what I saw. So I think we could say, hey, we can't affirm that there's a phenomenon that it seems like some of these, the things that people say are scriptural, but here's a key third point. We do not want to affirm these experiences as authoritative. Very important. "Hey, man, we should affirm the longing, we should affirm the phenomenon." 'Cause some of these, including this one, might be credible, but we should not affirm them as authoritative. They either confirm what scripture says, or they're false. Period, 'cause there are some near-death experiences, by the way, of people from other religions. - Yes, right. - That would, they believe they're in heaven. And we would say that is not what scripture says. So that, I think, is the key thing is, is we can say, "Hey, God in His grace "has made gifts on people a sneak peek "of what's ahead of them."

But it's even better than the sneak peek. - That's a good plan. - But we would also say, "Hey, these are not authoritative. "We always have to take what these people will experience "and line them up against scripture, "and where it lines up, we say, "Man, I'm so amazed. "I'm glad you have that experience, "and what's actually you're gonna experience "is even better." And if they don't line up, we'd take scripture-side, it's not theirs. - Yeah, the foundation of our theology is not anecdotal, it's our experiences, it's the Word of God. - That's right. - And so if it's the Word of God, we agree, we embrace it, and then we test everything in light of that. - Exactly, that's exactly right. - Can I close our episode in an evening way? - Please. - So as of the recording of this episode, we are actually recording this right around the one-year anniversary of the assassination Charles Kirk. I only texted with Charlie one time, I was showing it to you right before this, I was trying to get him online free. And people probably do not realize the significance that Charlie Kirk had even on this podcast, or they might, because the title of this podcast

may sound a little familiar. Even the title of Live Free, I got from two places. I got it from 1 Peter 216, Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but as living as servants of God. I got it from there, and I got it from seeing it on a t-shirt Charlie Kirk had. Live free. If you go back literally exactly a year, the week Charlie Kirk died, we had Sabrina on, and we did an episode responding to a bunch of lies about Charlie and kind of walking through those old clips. Let me just say, people, that guy's gonna be the next Charlie Kirk, that guy's gonna, there's never gonna be another Charlie Kirk. That guy was unique, that was a unique man. That episode changed their trajectory, even of this podcast. It was really a lot of watching what he did, where he started taking the word and bringing it into every area of the world, that really may be kinda go like, now we need to go there, in parts of the pod, and that episode is how tens of thousands of people found us in the first place. And so, standing on the fact of his very unique influence on this podcast and the effect that he's had on so many people's lives,

I thought it'd be fitting to close the episode this week with a tribute to Charlie Kirk, who is hugging Jesus today. - This is Charlie Kirk from Turning Point USA. - Charlie Kirk, back with us. - We're starting chapters nationwide. - One of the things that I think is so important to remember is that we worship a loving God, who allows us to be here on this planet, to do his will here on earth. - But look, I don't blame people for saying that I'm a political guy, that is my day job. And so, I'm focused on the second most important thing. - I have to say this without getting emotional, but I'm very proud of my husband. - So then of course everyone says, "What's the first thing?" Okay, well the first thing is winning souls for Jesus Christ, the most important thing. - Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. - But then Charlie, what's the second thing? Let's make sure you can do the first thing. (laughs) That's good, it's my day job. - Politically we believe the Constitution should be ultimate authority, but out of the Constitution are all biblical truths. - Now I've had some pretty amazing experiences, I've been very, very blessed, and the greatest joy I've ever had

is coming home to my little daughter, running up to my leg. There's nothing that even comes close to it, not flying on Air Force One, not meeting with presidents. - They just called it for Pennsylvania, Charlie. It has been called, remember where you were when this happened. - That pales in comparison to your little girl coming up and squeezing your leg. - Oh, wow. - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Boom, your existence is not a mistake. - What is God's plan when I go on a college campus? I just believe I will only tell truth, I will not compromise, and I'll love on the lost. - In the words of my husband buckle up. - There are a lot of people you tell, I'll tell you why. - In Seoul, South Korea crowds gather to wave American flags and shout. ♪ We are standing strong ♪ - If everything completely goes away. I want to be remembered for courage for my faith. That would be the most important thing, most important thing is my faith in my life. - Whether it be Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, Isaiah and Anais, the here I am is when legendary things happen in the Bible. (inspirational music) (inspirational music) (inspirational music)

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