It's Not Over: Seeing What God Sees - Howard and Tiffany Bell - Part 1

people who have discovered the real hope of Jesus Christ. I'm Christia Overton Johnson, the founder and publisher of Victorious Living Magazine. Since 2011, I've had the privilege of sharing the most amazing life stories. I never cease to be amazed at the life-transforming power of Jesus Christ. Today in our podcast, you're going to go deeper into these amazing God stories and hear from those who have overcome incredible odds and discover how they found a life of freedom. You can discover it too. I trust that you'll enjoy today's conversation between our host and our special guest. Thank you for listening and be sure to share the hope you hear and the mission of Victorious Living. Hi and welcome to the Victorious Living Podcast. My name is Julie Seals with the Victorious Living team and I'm really excited to bring our special guest to you today. We have Dr. Howard and Tiffany Bell with us and their stories are in issue three of 2026. So we're excited that they're going to be with us and share a little bit more of their stories with us. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Well, it's been a pleasure to get to know you. Both of you have incredible testimonies that it's been an honor to share in this issue. And so I wanted to say that this weekend, we are doing a revival here in North Carolina called Revival of Hope and the theme is It's Not Over. And both of your stories reflect that theme that with Jesus, it's never over. So Howard, I want to start with you. Was there, can you think of a time in your life and I'm sure you can think of many where you really thought that everything was over and there might have been no hope? Well, you know, you're right. There's been many. I'd like to say that it was when I was a child. But you know, when you're a child, you don't fully understand. I don't know if you ever fully understand, but you don't really have a grasp on what life is supposed to look like if there is such a thing. And so for me, I would say that one of the most poignant times in my life, when I felt like, you know, what's the point? You know, why are you allowing me to God to live? If there's no, if it doesn't seem like there's any real purpose. You know, I think so many times in my life, purpose and identity was tied to the things I do or the things I can accomplish. Yeah. So I can remember specifically at a time when I got my mid to late 30s, when I had already been blessed by God to live beyond what the doctors expected. I was supposed to die before I was five and at the most I was supposed to live as the age of 12. But, you know, I made it through

and God was so faithful about my life. And we can't go into the whole story today. But the time when I really realized as an adult was when my primary caregiver was my mother. Okay. And when you're used to having care, when you're used to life being a certain way and having even a certain amount of freedom, I don't even want to go into the word freedom right now. But when you're used to that, and then God says, hey, you become more dependent on someone than on me. Wow. And I said, all right, I didn't know that that's what he was trying to tell me. But when my mom couldn't know I would do my care and I thought nobody else would. And I thought, you know, I can't, I can't go to work like I want to. I can't go preach like I want to. I can't get up and go do the things that I didn't shouldn't have been the one to begin with. But I couldn't go do that either. So I found myself at the side of a lake one day in a community where I lived. And I found a way to go to a sidewalk where I knew I could roll off. And I could throw myself in the water. And my mom was pretty confident and trusting at that time, everybody thought I was okay. But I was looking at the future going, I see no possibility. Yeah, there was no hope. So I can remember I backed my chair up that day. And I started in Arizona, started rolling towards that lake, going about two and a half mile an hour in my wheelchair. And I got to the edge and I heard a voice that says, do you see what I see? And Julia, I can't tell you what happened. I thought, who's talking to me? It was that enough that it stopped me from going in the lake. And I backed up again. And it went to everything in me. I was like, Nobody's going to care for me. There's no point moving forward. And I got to the edge of the lake again, I put it in my mouth there. Do you see what I see? And I knew it was the voice of God, and I said, you know, I don't understand what kind of cruel joke you're playing, but I'm listening. And I have what I call a Lion King moment. And the movie, the Lion King, I don't know if you remember the little section where

Simba's sad because his dad has passed away. And I think he comes and says, he says, my dad's gone. And I have no hope of being a leader. I don't know what's going on. And basically, I think he goes, your father still lives. And he pulls him to the edge of the water. And as he's looking over the water on the Lion King, he sits in the water. And what he sees is not what he feels. - Right, wow. - It's what's inside of him. - That's so true. And so, as I was looking at the eggs of water, and I know, I know science, I couldn't see a reflection, but God showed me me standing up. And he said, do you see what I see? And it was at that moment that I realized that I'd begin with the lens of impossibility, the lens of it's over. It didn't matter how much God had done it to that point. What was more important to me at that point was what he was going to do, and I didn't see a way possible. But when he showed me that he doesn't see my limitations, he doesn't see the fact that I, what people would say confined to a wheelchair, that he sees a mighty man of God, that through him all things are possible. That was when I realized, and I'd like to say I got it all perfect

from that point forward, but I realized that the one of the best that Paul talks about was looking for hope in the future, instead of looking for his word in the present. - That's so true. - And so, that's what I would say to the listeners today is, they're gonna be pointing your life where you feel like, this is it, it's over. - Yeah. - But it's really not over, until he takes that last breath out of your lungs. Because it's his breath in your lungs, and for you to be over means for him to have stopped. So if we see what he sees, then we can operate in who he says we are. Then there's nothing impossible with him. So that would be my encouragement today. - That thank you, that was beautiful. Wow. - One thing that really stood out to me, while the whole story stood out to me, I'm wondering, is it in your book? Is that story in your book? - I don't believe it's in the older. - Oh my goodness. - It is on social media, I have. - Okay. - I'm not proud of it because I got my hair all wild, and it was much younger, but when God decided to show me that you was well able,

it wasn't probably two years after that, or even a year that God gave me the message, where he asked me, "Will you yield?" And when I realized as I was yielding to hopelessness, rather than to hope. And so I wrote the book he yielded, but I started that book by going on a tour in 2016. And one of the first things I was asked on that tour, which by the way, I'm on a tour with people that, at the time we just got to know each other. Like, I had brand new caregivers, it was like a mess. I mean, they want a mess, it was just a mess because we were just saying yes to God and had no idea what yes meant. - Okay. - So we ended up at this youth conference, and there was probably three or 4,000 young people. And the man that asked me to come, literally just handed me a mic and said, "You got four minutes to give them a message of hope." - Okay. - It reminded me to entitle that four-minute message to you to see what I see. And that's really the only place that's been publically. - Wow. - I've shared it many times privately, because many people that are watching this, I often tell people when we go into prisons all over the country, we can talk about the physical incarceration.

- Yeah. - But what we really need to address is the spiritual and the emotional incarceration. - Yeah. - I know what it's like to be physically confined, but I also know that my physical confinement wasn't nearly as powerful or as confining as my mental and spiritual confinement. - Yeah. - And I just, to answer your question, I know that was a long answer. No, it's not in the book, I don't believe. But I do address, okay. When inside you're really walking in the fear of what's going to happen next. Yeah, well in your book is available Howard I believe in prison chapel libraries across the nation. It will be Rosa when they watch this video it should be within the next week or two. Okay, well you heard it go look in your prison chapel library for "Yield It" by Dr. Howard Bell and I know that that book is going to bless you so much as well as the magazine. But Tiffany I want to come back to you and I would like you to answer the same question. I want you to tell us and tell them a time in your life when you really thought it was over. You know it's so funny because sometimes it's not what you think it's going to be that pulls you under. It's that very last moment where you just go oh not this too I can't bear this. And you know I tell my testimony in lots of places and some people today may have already heard it but when I was 13 my dad went to prison. When I was 17 I got pregnant gave up a scholarship to Duke University dropped out of school right. Did all of those things got married at 18 for the first time and just thought okay this is the upswing this is going to be the good part right. All the abuse as a kid everything was finally going to make sense and this was my shot. And unfortunately when you are already in trauma and chaos you tend to pick people that are also in trauma and chaos. And I'm not in a position to point any fingers but I am in a position to say I often think we were two survivors on one life raft and we just couldn't make it.

And so shortly after that marriage I knew it was headed towards divorce we you know it just wasn't going to work and that was the thing. I felt like I had been rejected by everybody and everything and now this one person first person that had ever said I love you and I thought oh this has to last forever they said I love you right and that was the most devastating moment and I remember feeling so broken so unwanted so unloved all of those things and when I came to the Lord I was 22 years old and I was so independent oh I thought that was such a great thing so it was really hard even for God to help me because I had gotten to a place where I I was raised you have to be self-sufficient you have to do it on your own you have to make your own way and so here I'm trying to make my own way and every time God would step in to help me I'd go no no God I got this let me do this let me let me prove to you let me make somebody proud let it be you God and you know when you're you're desiring that from a father figure from a a husband figure from a you take that to God those broken parts of you go right to him and you're going hey God give me that validation give me that approval and I remember one day I was driving down the road and I'd had a little success you know I'd gotten on my feet after the divorce and gotten a little car got in a good job you know and I was driving on the road and I was just praying so intently and just telling the devil what I would do kind of thing you know and I felt the Lord literally pat me on my head and it was in the most tender way and he was like calm down it's me who battles these things oh that's so good and what I realized was I had survived so many things but I never left the war and God had to bring me to a place where I didn't have to go to every battle I saw because when you're used to fighting and scrapping to survive it's really hard to get out of that mentality and then fit jointly in a church body how do you fit jointly when you trust nobody but yourself and so God really had to work on that and so the hopelessness of never being connected I think is what I felt and it's funny because today I think that most people would probably say and have said to me you know you're so connected to everybody and I just think man look what God has done yeah because I didn't want to be connected to anybody you know well and there was one part of your story that really touched me deeply and I don't know if you're gonna guess it but it was the part from your childhood [BLANK_AUDIO] really know it was him, but could you share that? Because I'm wondering if somebody watching this feels alone, feels like there's chaos all around them and you just want to kind of tuck away and

hide and I want you to tell them how Jesus can find us in those places. You know, we weren't allowed to go to church growing up. My dad was a pastor that had backslit and he became a very miserable person. It was so funny, Julie. I used to say he was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. If you met him in the light of day, you thought he was the nicest man and he was, but just a couple of sips off of a bottle and he was something totally different, very violent, very scary. And so, you know, he took his violence out on my mom and there were plenty of times where she would say, "Tiffany, just go hide. Just go find a place to be. Just try to get out of the room, whatever." And I remember being so small and, you know, terrified, right? And you'd go find a little place to hide, whether it be behind a couch or in a room or whatever, and I would sit there and sometimes I'd sit there for hours. And I would sit there and, you know, in that moment, you can't drink, you can't eat, you can't go to the bathroom, you can't, you know, and you're just terrified for hours. And I would be so lonely and this man would come and sit with me. And he wouldn't talk to me, but I would look at him and he would look at me. And then I would look away because I just knew he would leave if I said anything. I just felt like my dad in the height of his addiction had the ability to make other people as miserable as he was. So if he found that you really loved something, whether it was a pet, a friend, a toy, he would give it away. You know, hurting people hurt people. It's as simple as that. And so I thought, man, if he knows that I got this great man that sits with me and keeps me company, he'll find a way to take it away. And that went on for years. And I remember when I came to the Lord, it was like all of that came back to me, just flooding back to me. And I was like, you were there the whole time. And so many people will ask me, Tiffany, you've been through so many types of abuse. Why aren't you angry? Why aren't you mad at God? How could I be mad? He set with me every time. He never left me the first nor the last time. And I just remember thinking, God is thug. Like he showed up in a place I was scared to be in. I mean, he just did the most. I had such respect for him. I was like, wow, when every other man, even the men in my family, the community, they all knew who my dad was. They would all run from him in those moments, but Jesus came and sat. And his peace became my peace. He showed me how to sit literally in what felt like hell and have peace. And, you know, today I get a lot of remarks as people walk the life, you know, journey of God and church and what we do together. You know, you get to walk with other people. And they'll often say, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you go through such hard

things. And then you'll just regroup and be like, okay, thank you, Jesus. But it's because he never left me. Wow. Yeah. And so what would you say to someone in prison right now who is feeling like they're in the middle of chaos and they're terrified and they feel like they have nobody? You know, Jesus has the ability to create a secret place for you and him. And that's a place where none of the labels of life can stick to you. None of the harsh things that people say in anger, hurt, malice, whatever, they can't get to you in that place. There's a shadow under his wing that you can sit. And, you know, he invites us to have that type of relationship with him. I will tell you that the more intimate times you spend with Jesus, the less the world will bother you because we understand that this world is not our home. These are just neighbors that we may or may not like right at the moment. But our home is secured and it's a place of peace, joy, no more tears, none of those things. And so I would urge you to run to the Father. Tell them. You know, yes, just, yes, run to the Father, you know, get under his arms, feel his heart, listen to the sound of what he's trying to tell you. And most of the times, the storm that is within us is because we're not trusting him. There is no place. He said, said if you make your bed in hell, I'll be with you. And if he was thug enough to come into, you know, a violent dope man's house to sit with me, he'll come into that place and sit with you. And so, you know, just make that time and make that relationship priority. Always priority. That's good. That's good, Tiffany. I know Howard in your story, there was also something that really like got me. And that was also a very special encounter with, I don't know if it was Jesus or an angel, but it was when you were in the hospital. And I just love that part of your story and I'm wondering if you would share that. Well, I think you're referring to when I was about 13. You know, you said when you asked me my first question on this podcast, you said you would imagine there had been many times. Yes. When I felt like it was over or it pretenses sunlight, it was going to be over. And there are times in my life, even as a young child, when the odds look like they were stacked. You know, and so at the age of 13, I had a really severe

curvature and much spine, even more than what they can see on camera right now. And I had to go through a back surgery. And I guess, I guess into these world, I would have been labeled as a mama's boy. So as I was getting ready for surgery, even though I was raised in church and I had been, you know, filled with the whole ages at a very early age. And, you know, I don't even know if people have often asked me, "Do you know the day you got saved?" I'm like, "I think I came up saved because I was on the church pew." But anyway, I was raised in church and at 13, the doctors said, "Hey, we've got to do this surgery." If we don't do it, he's almost definitely going to die in the next week, four years, because he wants to suffocate. And if we do it, he's only got a 60% chance of survival because the surgery is pretty major. We're going to try to straighten this back. So let's say this, when I was preparing for the surgery, one of the things I had to do in my mind was reconcile if it is over. What's going to happen? Am I going to see my mom and daddy? Is it really true the stories they say about heaven? And if it's not, how am I going to do this? So fear tried to come in. And for the first time in my life, I had to go in and operate anywhere where my mom and dad couldn't go. Yeah. And I got in there and everything was so sterile and so isolating. And they were you in there and you're 13 years old, you got your little teddy bear on the bed and everybody said, "They're goodbyes and you don't know if you're going to return." And I was scared out of my mind. Yeah. And I remember them saying, "We're going to step in the other room and get some things ready. We can hear you, so don't be afraid." And about that time, my mom came around and he was one that was coming from him and I've ever met in my life. And he said, "Hey, how are you feeling?" I said, "Scared."

And I can remember when he touched my foot in my bed, this piece that came over me. And he said, "I want you to know you're never alone." And then all of a sudden, all these other people came back in the room and I said, "That's maybe what I was talking to." I said, "That gentleman." And they said, "They said there was no gentleman." And I remember they put the mask on my face and I said, "There was two. These people are a while years." And I'm 13, I gotta tell his mom, I did try to play tricks on me. And then I wake up a few days later and I wake up to the sound of a flat line. And you know, my mind subconsciously was saying, "If I die, be prepared." So did you think it was your flat line? Yes, I woke up in a sheer planet and said, "Oh my God, I'm dead." And it wasn't me, it was the baby and I see you next to me at flat line. And you know, when you're in and out of, you know, sleep or whatever, you wake up, I woke up a little while they're like, "Hey." And I can feel my mom saying, "Hey, you're all right, I'm right here." I said, "My God, you're dead too." I thought we all died at the same time. And I lay down, my mom's like, "You're praying behind me." She said, "Son, I gotta step back and get something, you're gonna be all right." She stepped out and I looked up and I saw the monitor of that baby. And the heart rate was down to like 30 beats per minute. It was holding on for life and I'm trying to get my bearings and I look over and there's that man again in a rocking chair to put it at baby's bed. I said, "I'm okay." I saw you now, pregnant with him. And he said, "Yeah." And I said, "Are you and his or yours? Doesn't matter who I am." I said, "Is this baby going to live?" He said, "With God, all things are possible."

And I remember he said, "If you prayed, without wavering, and I'd be going to pray for that baby." In and out of sleep, I'd wake up and pray again. And the nurse finally told my mom that the baby had been left at the hospital. Oh, okay. And was in pretty serious condition, but was starting to recover. So I began to tell my prayers from the miracle of life to the miracles of a mother coming back. And the baby not only began to recover, but the day they took me out of ICU, they were willing me out and I see a young lady with an ATF jacket on. She's weeping and crying, and they're bringing her back in to see her baby. She had been returned. So sometimes we think about ourselves and we're gonna know it's over for us. But God has given us the ministry of reconciliation. That's right. And sometimes our, it's not over. It's so that someone else doesn't have to experience. It's over. Yeah. And so that's my story is that there was an angel of the Lord that obviously I saw, but no one else did and I've seen God do it. Not just for me, but for others. Yeah.

What a testimony to the power of prayer too. Right. I mean, I can only imagine that that was something that cemented your prayer life. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely. It was one of the most pivotal moments of my life. And here's what's interesting to me. I want to say this and not trying to take over the podcast. And I know we're talking about the revival of hope this weekend. No, that's not over it. But I want to say this to people. The enemy's job is to steal, to kill and to destroy. And one of the things that I know some of my life is the things that God cements in our life, the enemy targets as an objective to destroy. So the greatest destruction to an answered prayer is focused doubt. When he can get us to focus on this will never change. Yeah. This is never going to fix itself. It's a way it's always been, it's a way it's always going to be. That is like a wrecking ball to every cemented faith or testimony that we've ever had. And I won't preach to David when he went before Goliath. Didn't defeat Goliath with the stone. He defeated Goliath with the faith that God had done it yesterday. And he'll do it today.

That's right. Yep. And that's when we know it's not over because what we can reach down inside and say, hold on. Yes. The God of Abraham lies within Jacob has let us out. Come on. And he's not going to leave us into a place that will keep us bound. It doesn't matter what my mistakes are. David didn't get up and go, you know, I tried the same three weeks ago and I didn't hit that bird that was in the field. David got up and said, let me tell you, a bear and a lion came out and God delivered them into my hand. And who are you to come against? Not me. That's when we often fail. That's when it feels like it's over. When we respond to a spiritual situation with fleshly attitudes and I'm preaching to myself and I know I'm talking to somebody incarcerated, when you're trying to handle a natural situation that you caused in the natural and I'm not placing guilt, the only antidote to that is supernatural faith. Yeah. Yeah.

And supernatural faith will totally turn things around. Absolutely. It'll turn everything around. And it defies natural logic. Yeah. Streets might say, if somebody hits you, even in that you finish the fight. Yeah. Supernatural faith says, no weapons won but against me. Shall prosper, my God, is my warrior. He will fight my battles. He was like a land to the slaughter, yet he opened not his mouth. If he had, it would have been in his own flesh. Yeah. He would have got to speak on his behalf. That's so good. And it's so, it's so powerful that you're sitting here, Howard, in your chair. And yet what comes out of your mouth It's, this is who my God is. And this is who he's always been to me. And, I mean, you know, sometimes we think we have problems, right, you know, I have one leg, you know. But, okay, not comparing. But, you know, God is no respecter of persons and he's no respecter of problems. There's nothing impossible, like you said. I just love that. Well, Howard and Tiffany, thank you so much

for sharing your story with us today. And actually, I think we wanna come back and do a part two because there are some things that I think the men and women are gonna really wanna hear and I'd like to dig into. So, we will bring you back for a part two of this podcast. And in the meantime, I just wanna say that we love to hear your comments. So, if you would leave comments, we wanna read what you have to say with the Holy Spirit is saying to you as you're watching these interviews. And also, download the study guide. Don't forget that there's a study guide to go with every one of these podcasts. And you can not only download it, but you can get together with some people around you and do a Bible study with it. And there is also information on how to write to us. We would love to hear from you. We have a prayer team, we've got a correspondence team. So, please reach out to us. Let us know how this podcast impacted you, how we can pray for you. And I just wanna take a moment and pray for you in closing. God, I pray that you will bless every man and woman watching this podcast. I pray that you would speak to their hearts and draw them close to you. I pray that they would know that no matter what they are facing in life, that it's not over.

And it's not over because of Jesus. God, I thank you for them. I pray a blessing on them. And I just pray that you will bring them back to watch the second part of the podcast. And it's in Jesus' name that we praise you, amen. - Thank you for watching our broadcast. Are you an incarcerated brother or sister who needs encouragement? Write to us at Victoria's Living Correspondents, via box 2751 Greenville, North Carolina, 27836. To view Victoria's Living Magazine in its entirety, please have your chat when contact us at 352-478-2098 or email us through our website at vlmag.org. We are happy to provide our Victoria's Living Magazine free of charge in bulk with or without staples. (upbeat music)