@holygabbana + @johnnychanglive: From PRISON to JESUS | God Behind Bars Podcast

I had this encounter where I realized that there's just nothing I could do in my life to protect myself. If God wanted to take me, it wouldn't be the bullet that took me, it would be him who took me, right? He'd have to allow that to happen. I just realized that every single time I trusted myself and followed myself, what was the path? I trusted Johnny Chang, I followed Johnny Chang and I ended up in prison. I ended up as a drug addict, I ended up robbing people, I ended up doing stupid stuff and empty, lonely, miserable, trying to take my life through separate occasions. To rub shoulders with other celebrities and you know, once I got famous job done, just trying to figure out who is John Hill Jr. And was like, "Bro, you have nowhere to go, you've got to come to the way because you have no other way and the only time you could have the way and see the way which is Jesus is when you have no other way." Bold enough just to give it all to Jesus, man, because I'm like, "I tried everything else." I used to try to be a Christian. I began to love Jesus way more than I love sinning. I felt something come on me and I shared it with my self-mate. He said, "Yo, that was the Holy Spirit." Not only did I want to know Jesus, what I felt, I wanted to make him know, make him know. What is the thing that your relationship with Christ, what is the greatest thing that has given you? Paul's summing up in one word worth. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the God Behind Bars podcast. I'm Jake Bodine and we are at Louisiana State Penitentiary and today I brought two of my friends that have both experienced incarceration, but that is what helped shape them into the individuals that they are today. And now God is using them in ways that are unimaginable. In fact, they're probably two of the most influential individuals on the Internet when it comes to helping others find Jesus and grow in their faith the same way that they have over the course of the last few decades. And so, Johnny, Holy Gabbana, man, it's good to have you both. Appreciate it. Thank you. Man, let's talk about today. Obviously, you guys have been back in prison before. Obviously, prison is what is a major part of your story. Let's start there. Holy Gabbana, why don't you give us the two-minute version of your story, how you found Christ the encounter that you had, and then we'll jump in with Johnny and then we'll unpack what we experienced today. Just being in and out of jail, back in 2018, I went to LA County and my cellmate, he introduced me to Jesus, sharing a gospel with me, and actually just influenced me to worship and find Jesus for myself. And in my moment of worship inside of jail, I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit. I didn't have the words for it back then. You know, I wasn't well-versed with religious language, but I felt something come on me,

and I shared it with my cellmate, what I felt, a warmth, a presence. I was crying in worship, but the presence I felt took my sadness away, and he said, "Yo, that was the Holy Spirit." And from that moment, man, I'd just been seeking that same presence and reading a Bible and worshiping, but that was my moment to what made me be on this journey. Yeah, and you're out now. Why don't you speak to a little bit about how God has used that journey now to have an impact on literally millions around the country? Yeah, he's been using it, but to be honest, man, I haven't even been focused on that. I've been focusing on God. I know he's been using me, my story, and everything that I've been doing and my faithfulness is making a major impact on this earth. But man, I haven't been focused on none of that. What I've experienced in that cell, it was so real to me that I've dedicated the last five years of my life just to know Jesus. That's how long I've been saved five years. And not only did I want to know Jesus, what I felt, I wanted to make it known, make him known. And I've just been doing that as genuinely and faithful as I can, and the people that's been affected by the social media and people in prison and jail and on the streets. You know, God's just doing whatever he do, but I ain't even even focused on that, man. I'm just being faithful. I think that's awesome to even... Purpose is not about recognition. Uh, I think that often, like people look at the, the glamorous of influence and everything else, but purpose is dedicating your life to something that's bigger than you. Yeah. Uh, and really the only thing that's bigger than you is him, Jesus Christ. And so staying firm in that foundation, everything else that he opens for you, doors wise, everything else, um, is really just kind of a, a testament to how he wants to use you. Uh, but I think that it's often missed that God smiles on the person who saves one, just as big as he smiles on the person that saves one million. And so, um, yeah, be open, be usable. Johnny, I know, uh, for you, man, your story, uh, incarceration at the age of 12, all the way through 25, why don't you just give us a little bit of your background and then how you encounter Christ.

Yeah. So, you know, grew up in project housing, uh, you know, had a, you know, two immigrant parents, my father, just not being able to really speak the language. Uh, had a failed business restaurant, took a lot of his anger out on me and my brother and my mom. And so I saw a lot of abuse as a kid, uh, we hopped off the porch, me and my brother very, very early, uh, at the age of 10, I was just already like kind of hanging out in the streets and it kind of catches up to you. You know, I had 12 years old. I joined a gang, um, end up joining at the worst time when the gang was getting recoed and I didn't even know what that was. Uh, we got recoed and essentially I get locked up, uh, and go to California Youth Authority. It's my again, my first time even going to not even a juvenile camp or, you know, the halls or anything like that, just straight to California Youth Authority. Uh, and this is where they, they, they have the worst of the worst. Um, I end up, you know, doing that and then going to prison as well. What's that, what's that feeling like though? For, for someone who's never been to prison, what's the feeling like you're a juvenile? Yeah. What's the bus ride like? What's, what's the feeling like when you step off that bus? Yeah. So the bus, uh, there is, is obviously very, very scary. You, you, you got a million thoughts running through your mind. All right. So I got to look tough, you know, and then you start meeting people. You see people bigger than you start sizing them up. Uh, you start to kind of see different races in California. It's all a racing, uh, we don't really intermingle.

So it's all segregated in a way and very, very discriminatory in this aspect. So I would see my people and I would try to wonder who, who was from where, who's an enemy, who's not a street politics that comes with it. So, you know, you're 12 years old and you're processing this and you don't know how to process it. You're just told by the older homies, you got to stand for what you believe in. Even if you lose, you got to fight. When lose or draw, you got to fight basically, right? And so, uh, first night there, yeah, I fought multiple people, um, you know, because our gang was very big and we were kind of powerful at that time. And so, you know, you're just kind of like going through the motions and then you, you, you get those fades out the way as they say, you start to kind of settle in a little bit. Um, but for me, prison was a lot more scarier. When you go to the big leagues, you know, you're 16 years old, going on 17, you see people just units, you know, twice the size of you, you're 16 years old. These people are been in their lifers. People were in their triple murder, you know, quadruple murders. It's crazy stuff. But you feel this, this kind of, uh, adrenaline, but also fear, but also claustrophobia. I mean, it's just a mixture of emotions. And then you also kind of feel this, this feeling of validation where it's like, I made it, I made it to a place where a lot of my homies have been. And now I'm kind of in the league with them, but now I got to prove myself. So it was just a plethora of just emotion at the end of the day. It's a lot of confusion. When you say you got to prove yourself, is that the pressure that the environment puts on you? Or can you, can you walk into prison, put your head down, keep to yourself through your time and walk out? Or is it something like, no, you've got to, you've got to adopt a persona. Yeah. I mean, there's like two types, right?

You either adopt or you become like a resident and a resident usually keeps their head down, yes, but they still get extorted. They still get, you know, exploited at times. I mean, it's just, you're kind of at the width of like all the gangs. So me being in a gang by affiliation with the first yard I hit at seven of my homies. So they're not going to just let me because I represent something bigger than myself. They're not going to let me just turn everything down and do what I want. If they did, they would roll me off the yard. So that was a lot of pressure as scared as you were, you had to act like you weren't, you know, so it comes down to basically fully survival mode. That's what it comes down to. And I had to survive. Yeah. And so that encounter with Christ, obviously you've got an entire life that you built. And John, I'm going to ask you this too. Like, how do you get the courage and stay faithful in surrendering to Jesus and your friendships, your loyalty, everything to say, "Hey, you know what? I'm a new person in Christ and I'm gonna live a new way." - I think to be transparent, the first year coming to Christ was very difficult. I was still carrying a Glock every single day 'cause my church is in my neighborhood. And just because you know God and Jesus forgives you, the people that you wrote on, the people that you slid on, your enemies do not forgive you, obviously. And in fact, they're waiting for you to become Christian because they know that and they can attack you, right? And they know that most likely your gang

has excommunicated you because you made that choice. So you're just like food basically waiting to get preyed on. So for me, it was difficult the first year. I wasn't really sure I didn't trust anybody. I was still trying to be my own keeper and protector. But you know, you go through these motions and I had this encounter where I realized that there's just nothing I could do in my life to protect myself. If God wanted to take me, it wouldn't be the bullet that took me, it would be him who took me, right? He'd have to allow that to happen. And so when I learned through Isaiah 54 through a pastor, no weapon formed against me, shall prosper, I was able to see like, man, weapons will form, right? Because I would run into enemies at gas station 711, wherever, but they would actually be really respectful. It was kind of weird. And it was because I went to prison and I knew their big homies or I just knew people from prison and they were like, yeah, my homie was locked up with you. He talked about when you did this and that. And I'm like, interesting. I'm full on waiting for something to happen to me and nothing happened. It was like God protected me every single time. And so you kind of just realized that every single time I trusted myself and followed myself, what was the path? I trusted Johnny Chang, I followed Johnny Chang

and I ended up in prison. I ended up as a drug addict. I ended up robbing people. I ended up doing stupid stuff and empty, lonely, miserable, trying to take my life three separate occasions. And I just had no more other way. So yeah, is it a struggle to be a Christian? Absolutely, did I question my salvation at times? Absolutely, did I up and leave the church? 100%. But during those times in those seasons of isolation, I felt like God used that and was like, bro, you have nowhere to go. You gotta come to the way because you have no other way. And the only time you could have the way and see the way, which is Jesus, is when you have no other way. And all the glory goes to him. 'Cause I could sit here and say I carried my cross and I did this and I didn't do nothing but just fail. And that failure turns into surrender at the end of the day. And I was just thankful that God allowed me to fail so much that I could only turn to him and only lean on him. Even the surrender aspect I learned is not me, but he had to do it for me. Like I came to the realization I can't surrender and that's why God had to make me do it. And in that loving way, true me back to him. Wow, that was amazing. And John, for you, you had adopted an entire persona,

a very public persona that was really like your whole brand. So when you surrender that, you're surrendering literally everything that you had built your career on and how you were making money and everything else. Can you talk to that? Like how were you able to find the courage of like, you know what, I'm a new creation in Christ. I'm no longer the old, the new has come. Where did you find that courage from? Yeah, so I could ride on the train on a lot of what Johnny said, but to be honest, the old brand that I had, I've been, got rid of that way before I found, or Jesus, before I started living my life for Jesus, I was gonna say way before I found Jesus. But I remember this saying, somebody was like, I never knew Jesus was lost, you know. (laughing) But way before I started walking with Jesus, man, I've been, gave up that past boom gang, identity and brand. For me. What was the moment that stopped you from giving that up? I never wanted to do it long-term. Yeah, I only wanted to do it to get in the door, to rub shoulders with other celebrities. And, you know, once I got famous, job done. So the only thing for me is, I didn't know how to transition that. I didn't know what else to do. And I was just stuck on that.

And then I got famous so young. I was 20, turned in 21. But when I gave my life to Christ, is when all that public, what can I say, persona stuff, went out the window. Now, what I can say is, when I gave my life to God, it's just like hand-washing clothes. You know, when you start hand-washing, when you hand-washing clothes, that shirt don't get clean all at once. You got to scrub it. And you got, you know, when you scrubbing it, the same spot may get back dirt on it because you're rubbing other parts of the clothes together. And as you keep washing it and scrubbing it, then eventually it gets clean. So for me, it's the same thing. Like, I love sleeping with prostitutes. and back pages, seeing who available. It took time, it took growing in God's word. And like Johnny said, a lot of times you fail and you realize all you got is God. But the thing about it is, if you have a genuine love for God, even when you fall, you struggle, you sin, you're going to feel some type of guilt, some remorse about it. If you don't, then we might got to question it. So even when I was falling short, it's like, dang, I messed up, I want to get right.

Dang, no, I'm not living all the way right right now, but my faith is that one day I will be. And over time, you're not supposed to stay five years old, 10 years old, you're supposed to be growing up. So eventually, you know, it comes to time where it's like, all right, I'm not going to keep making the same mistakes. And even when you mess, when you do mess up, God will allow some moments where you have some scares, where, you know, and you like, oh, that guy, I got too close, oh, I don't want to keep doing that. It just, he know how to bring everything together. For me, I had, I brought in my walk a lot of this stuff that I love to do before I gave my life to Christ. And over time, I began to love Jesus way more than I love sinning. And now it's like, okay, when I, when the temptation do come, I don't, I don't pay it no more. It came to that point because now I just know if I go that way, what my life would be like, what I will feel. And I'm tired of feeling guilty, or I'm tired of feeling shameful, or I'm tired of feeling dirty. If I just, if I just use the authority that Christ gave me and fight from the place of freedom and not from a place where I think I'm trying to be free because I'm already feeling Christ. But once I fight from that place of freedom, I don't have to worry about feeling them negative feelings

no more because I use the authority and I didn't fall short. - Yeah. - So it's just maturing in my faith. And the silence is to follow Jesus and do the right thing. - Yeah, I think that often that's where the enemy has his biggest field day, right? Is especially when you're trying to, you've said yes to Jesus and you're trying to take the next steps in your faith and whether it be an addiction or whether it be something that you know that you should have given up and you said that you were gonna surrender like this is not an excuse for you to sin but the enemy is going to lie to you. He's gonna bring shame, he's gonna bring guilt and say, hey, you know what, see, you're not like those people. You weren't for real when you said yes to Jesus and he's gonna try to talk you out of a relationship with Jesus and then ultimately your job, or your mode is gonna be, I need to go hide, I need to retreat, maybe this Jesus thing isn't cut out for me and that's the lie. That's the trap that the enemy wants to get you in. And I often tell the guys this all the time, like when God reached down and pulled you out of your worst moment, your mess, like you think that he's gonna run from you when you screw up maybe once or twice as you're trying to fix yourself and chase towards him, no, he loves you more than that. He loves you, he grabbed you out of your mess out of your worst moment.

And I know Johnny, like we talked a little bit about this earlier today is like as you started that journey like the back slide every now and then like you wanna speak to that and how you experienced some of that in your life. - Yeah, yeah. So I think personally, I didn't understand the difference between struggling and kind of being saved, right? I thought they were synonymous. I thought that once you get saved, you stop struggling. And so I felt that, man, if I'm still struggling, is this proof that I'm not saved? And it took time, but God taught me that the fact that you struggle is proof that you're saved, right? Because when I sit here and I think about not only just reading the books, but when they would pass around the plate of coke and the drugs and the women, did I really feel bad or any conviction when I was doing that stuff? And when I wasn't saved before the cross, no, I would actually get mad if they ran out of the drugs, right? But now when I see the homies and trying to do that stuff, I would recognize, oh my gosh, there's a want to do it, but then it stops. And it's like, why would I do this? I'm a new creature, these thoughts would come up, and it was at conviction. And so the fact that we struggle, I believe, is actually proof that we're saved, 'cause a sinner is not going to sit there and be like,

"Oh, I'm sinning, I'm messing up." personally I was able to see that every time I messed up you know I was able to really and you had mentioned this Jake but you put it articulated so well basically God understands that we're gonna be we're gonna mess up like you say and I don't think he's mad I think he paid for every single sin and again it's not to say we should sin however we want but because of the fact that we keep backsliding and messing up and he still loves us that love generates love inside of me so that it doesn't feel performative it's not like I'm trying to earn God's love it's like I'm messed up because of the fall of Adam I have a sinful nature and God still loves me even though I'm like that and then it's like when you have that love of like I'm not worthy of love but you still love me God that's what produces so much love out of me to be like man I probably should stop doing God dirty I probably should stop following my flesh because he died for this he paid for this you know and to anybody who feels like they're unworthy like I felt so unworthy so many times the one thing I had to do was get out of myself and be like okay if I was unworthy why would the man who literally hung the stars in heaven died for me you know what I'm saying like how if I'm am I if I'm worthy enough for for God to send his only begotten son for me then what about these thoughts and feelings they must be they must be a lie right to your point and so I was able to differentiate that yeah the enemy loves to lie and I tell people you should speak to God because if you don't speak to God the enemy will speak for him a lot of times when I fit when I sin I try to run away and don't pray and that's when the enemy comes in fellowships with me yeah see you're horrible you did this you did that but during those times is when you actually got to go to God and talk to him because the enemy will speak for him if you don't speak to him yeah so true and I think that understanding too that God is literally the perfect balance of just and mercy and love yep and truly like understanding why Jesus had to pay it all is because of he's a just God yeah but because he's a merciful God he went to the cross instead of you and I the penalty for sin is death and so he sent

his only son to the cross to die on this cross for you and I the greatest part about it and here's the miracle and it all is that he was able to conquer death because he is God that he was raised three days later and it's simple for each and every one of us it's simply a belief and acknowledgement in our heart and in our mind that Jesus is Lord and we too can be saved and so yeah I'm interested to know and I think that our listeners are interested to know obviously we've all been in a season in our life where we've chased worldly things but what is the thing that your relationship with Christ what is the greatest thing that is given you outside of the things and the desires that you had in the world John you can answer first my identity I think that's what I was mostly looking for before Christ you know even when I became famous like bro I changed my name three times just putting tattoos over my you know all over me I mean I like tattoos but obviously the outside world had influence and just trying to figure out who is John Hill Jr. it had no clue and you know just with building my relationship with Jesus I ain't really focused on so much of the outside world and it's like God just gave me peace on just who I am and he's just building my identity from my relationship with him and not so focused on you know the outside world like God created us to live inside out not outside in yeah so it's good that's the greatest thing I could say that's not materialistic that he gave me yeah for me I think it's worth in that you know I always felt unworthy of things so it ties into validation and all that but just worth many times I thought that I was unworthy and I was unqualified but I realized that again it goes back to if I'm unqualified and I'm unworthy then why would God send his son to die for me and so that's the constant battle is is remembering that new identity remembering that hey you're worth it you're worthy enough for the you know the god of this planet to send his son to die for you and that's the battle is remembering these things that's why the Bible says a lot remember the Lord remember the Lord thy God you know what he's done for you where he's gotten us out of that Egypt you know and out of that sin and so he's given me that because prior to that I had no worth and

I think I just because I had no worth I just lived however I wanted to straight up like all right well I'm gonna go some things. So you know what? I might as well just keep living my life to the fullest. I'm not worth anything to anybody. But after discovering God and him finding me, right, I was able to see that wow, like you do really love me and you do really are merciful to me. And even though when I'm not faithful, you're faithful. And so nowadays, I really focus on John 330, which is like he must increase, I must decrease. Because if you magnify him, you know, you can only but magnify him when you realize that you weren't worthy and you were less than, but he paid for that penalty and he died for you. So he gave me if I was to sum it up in one word worth worth. So good, man. Yeah, me too. All those things. I think that's what I was chasing was worth value, feeling validated, identity. And the second that I said, yes, to Jesus, I stopped trying to fill it with all of the things that had never worked for so long. And I was finally at peace, like true peace of knowing that I was an image bearer of God and obviously gave me purpose, which quickly grew into passion of like, Hey, I just got asked this question, like, what's your greatest desire in life? My greatest desire in life is that anybody who's incarcerated and beyond would know that there is hope and there's purpose and there's value in Jesus. And we I say this all the time, but I think often it's like, all right, what are you all trying to sell me? And really it's nothing like what we're trying to do is share what God has done in our lives. Because the truth is like whether you decide to believe or not, my life isn't going to change. But one thing I can guarantee is that if you say yes to Jesus, your life is going to change forever. And in a way that is unimaginable and anything that you've ever desired out of your own mind or your own heart, he's going to give you plus 1000. So man, I think for the guy that's sitting there or the gal that's sitting there right now and they're listening to this podcast and you know, it's like, Hey man, maybe maybe I do feel too far gone. Maybe I've listened to the enemy for far too long and my identity is thief or it's murder or it's angry or it's addict. Like, why Jesus? Why anything? That's what I asked. That's why I was just bold enough just to give it all to Jesus, man. Because I'm like, I tried everything else. Pills, drugs, same thing, pills, drugs, women, gangs, like streets. I've tried that and it led me to places I didn't want to be. So when I came in faith and I placed my faith in Jesus, I was like, why not Jesus? Why not try at least try and see where it take me. So that's why I say it's why I mean, why anything? If you tried everything else, people shouldn't need those in their arms.

That's bold to me. That's bold. If you break in the inner end of whole family sleeping in the house and you break in the house, why not try Jesus? You try the other stuff, it's just just crazy. You know, people say believe in Jesus, oh God, they can't see it's crazy. Look at everything else people doing. That's just as crazy. So why not try and see if it's true. And I'm pretty sure God, He will show you if He's real or not to you. He will show you. And to me, God, I felt His presence and that's cement cemented everything. So why not try this? Why Jesus is the fact that we could ask why Jesus and what I mean by that is love honors choice. So it's beautiful. Like, we're not trying to force y'all to do it and he won't either. And I think that's why we should choose Jesus. A loving God is not going to force you to do something. He loves you so much that He'll let you lead your life. But I would say personally, why I would choose Jesus because I led my life similar to what John was saying. And it just led to nothing if I just got to be real. I was thankful that many times I think why didn't God just change me right there? And God was like, because I love you so much, I want you to choose to love me. So for everybody else who's listening, it's okay. You don't have to be able to choose right now. But maybe to see people and realize like, man, the fact that we have a choice to want to love is proof that God is real because love honors choice. If He forces us to do something, I mean, that's not love, right? I mean, so at the end of the day, I think the fact that you can choose and even question that is proof of how loving God is where He's like, I respect you so much. I'm not going to force you to come here. I want you to live your life and I want you to be a he's always been team you. Why not him, right? The smarter thing to do, at least for me, was to be like, I'm going to just let you take care of my life because I tried and I let myself to prison, backsliding misery, lust, women, you name it. And so when I made that choice, it really made me peaceful and loving. And I think everybody deserves peace and love at the end of the day. But again, we can't force it. We just can can hope it into Jake's point, hit it right on the head. It doesn't benefit us as Christians in any way whatsoever, genuinely. Like y'all choosing to trust in God or not is not going to affect my ministry and how I live. So we just at the end of the day have this innate spirit enough in us to be like, we want y'all to be happy too. We know how it feels to be in the mud, in the dirt. And I'm thankful that God allowed me to come to him on my own accord because that is an actual loving God because love honors choice. I love that man. And it just starts with surrender. And I know that's such a bad

word, especially for guys. It's like surrender, man. I'm never going to surrender. But it is. It's a surrender to yourself. It's recognizing that, look, I've tried it my way for far too long. I've filled it with all of these empty things. And I'm going to surrender to the Lord Jesus over my life. And I'm going to live a life that is bringing glory to him in every way. And it's not always going to be perfect. Like we said earlier in the podcast, like you will mess up. And the great thing about the cross is that literally Jesus paid for our past, present and future sins. And again, that's not a green light to just take advantage of his grace and his mercy. Obviously, the heart is, man, I love him so much that I want to seek him, that I want to be different. But also forgive him myself when I do fall short of that and understanding that's exactly what the cross paid for. And so Johnny, why don't you share with our audience? Like if you want to accept Jesus today, how would you do that? So I would number one, profess him as my Lord and Savior. That means believing in what Jake was saying that he died for our sins, past, present and future sins and confessing to God that you want to live for him. And also some scripture I would go into. John 3 16, if you guys are able to read it, Hebrews 10, all of Hebrews 10, if you can, or Hebrews 10 14, profess him as your Lord and Savior. Confess that yes, you were sinner, you've sinned, you've done these things, but that's why Jesus died for your sins. And it's really just coming to him and having a conversation. You don't have to have colorful, vocabulary. You can come to God and be like, God, I want to give my life to you. I don't even know how. And that's a more real prayer than one that's performative. So come as you are because the Bible says that. And I came as myself, I said, hey, I still struggle with this and that. And God said, don't worry, watch me work. Even though it's your struggle, now that I'm guiding you and guarding you, it's going to become my struggle. I want you to understand that your problems may be big to you, but they're not big to God, right? So at the end of the day, he understands he just wants you to lean on him similar to like a father and a child relationship. So come to him as a child, not as a stranger. Thank you. John, do you have anything you want to add? I YouTube how to be a Christian. And you know, you don't always know. You just don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And my YouTube how to be a Christian, I just start watching videos. And I had some friends who I knew believed. And I was like, yo, I want to get baptized. And my connections grew from there, just me looking for what I wanted. And I wanted to know God. And I wanted to be a Christian. I wanted to be a follower of Jesus. And I just looked in search and I asked. And I grew just over the years,

like I said, been five years now, but I started there, how to be a Christian and just asking people who I knew believed in Jesus. Love that fire. Johnny Chang, Holy Gabbana, Jake Bodine. Thank you guys for tuning in today. Thank you guys for being here. I appreciate you. Yes, sir.