All My Hope: Julie Seals' Story | Victorious Living Podcast

Welcome to the Victorious Living Podcast. You are about to hear real stories of real people who have discovered the real hope of Jesus Christ. I am Christi Overton Johnson, the founder and publisher of Victorious Living Magazine. Since 2011 I have had the privilege of sharing the most amazing life stories. I never cease to be amazed at the life transforming power of Jesus Christ. Today in our podcast you are going to go deeper into these amazing God stories and hear from those who have overcome incredible odds and discover how they found a life of freedom. You can discover it too. I trust that you'll enjoy today's conversation between our host and our special guest. Thank you for listening and be sure to share the hope you hear and the mission of Victorious Living. Hi everyone. This is Randy Claypool with Victorious Living. I am privileged to have Julie Seals with us today. I'm sorry. I, uh, there's a couple of things. I have a few interactions. We haven't known each other for very long. In fact, we have yet to meet in person, but there's something about your personality that everyone will get to know when I see you and just now I kind of want to go Julie. I'll go Randy. You just have, you have such a fun outgoing with such a warm personality. So I ask you, were you always that way? Have you always been this way? That's a really good question. I want to say that when I was younger, yes. Um, and yep. And then when I got off in my years of addiction, things changed and honestly, I've never been quite the joy filled woman that I am today until I gave my life to Jesus. That's when it really started 25 years ago. I had joy, but I didn't have the joy right now that makes people want to go. Julie. Well, one of the many reasons that I'm excited to be interviewing you today is you are the newest member of the victorious living ministry team. And, uh, you were welcomed on board literally as a time of this recording a couple of weeks ago. And so let, let's talk. Um, and for our viewers to, this is, this is kind of a teaser. Okay. Like you would do in the movies because you're going to have an article that will come out in a future magazine talking about your life, um, your life story, things that have happened. So I'm, I'm not necessarily wanting to do a deep dive into that today. I want everybody to get to know you as a ministry victorious living team member, but I do want to touch on things. You spent some time inside the walls, didn't you? I did. I was in federal prison for 22 months. Okay. Uh, could have been in a lot longer if I understand. It was supposed to be 17 years to life. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Well,

I can't ask people when we're inside, what did you do? Why are you here? But you're not inside anymore. So what happened? I mean, you, uh, I noticed that you had an addiction. You mentioned that earlier. What were you addicted to? I was addicted to alcohol and crystal meth and it took me just down a road where I lost everything in life. And to answer your question about what I did to get into prison, I walked across an international border with four pounds of crystal methamphetamine duct taped around my waist. That'll do it. But you know what? I was lost Randy. I was dying literally. And I was hopeless and God saved my life by allowing me to get arrested and taken to prison. And I, I'm grateful you, you, uh, had a lot going on and it's going to be so hard not to really get into that today because that's going to be a part of your story that I want to save. And again, I want, I want those watching this to think, Oh man, okay. I want to make sure I see this when it comes out. I guess, I guess the point I'm trying to make too, I never spent time in prison. So that is a huge difference between us in, uh, okay. Yeah. I guess that could be a good thing. Pat Randy on the back, but at the same time going into do prison ministry. have something that connects with people inside that I don't and that makes a big difference because you've you've done things to turn your life around and But I gotta ask So, how did you get into meth? How did how did that all come about? That's intriguing to me? Yeah, so I grew up in Southern, California many years ago and And in Southern, California, there was this big emphasis on on Hollywood and If you were a woman There was an emphasis on being super skinny size triple zero, and I know it sounds dumb and it sounds It sounds just superficial, but I really started doing meth to lose 20 pounds and Which you know that it was really the worst thing I could have done But and I was involved in the party scene There was the nightclub scene of the 80s and 90s and I was hanging around all the wrong people and it was just this big snowball of

bad decisions that all happened together and destroyed my life pretty quickly Everybody I think it's a it's an opinion. I think everybody is addicted to something You know But What? What can you describe the addiction? What is it about it? That that made you so addicted to it and many years, correct, correct I was addicted to alcohol and meth for 17 years and Alcoholism runs in my family. So Both of my parents were alcoholics. My dad was a doctor My mom was an electrical aerospace engineer, but addiction doesn't have boundaries It it it doesn't not touch people because of their position or their career or how many degrees they have I can't think of one person in my family on either my mom's side or my dad's side Who did not have an issue with alcohol? and then for me, I just Did a lot of just the meth and the cocaine and everything And what was the original question? No Yeah, I mean you're answering it Just it's just the idea of addiction being addicted to something what what is that really like what why are you addicted? Yeah, so at first it was I thought I was doing it just because I was choosing to well I'm gonna do meth to lose weight or I'm gonna do it because I'm gonna go out and party and I don't want to Drink too much and get drunk So if I balance the alcohol and the meth and play this little game Then I'll be able to party all night and stay sober and

I can't tell you exactly when I crossed the line of weekend use to Weekday use to I had to get up in the morning and do a line just to get going in the morning I you know there's it's like this line that you cross where It gets a grip on your life and like a death grip around your throat and the addiction is Addiction is strong. It's powerful and at least it was for me and I couldn't break I couldn't break free And and it's when I was in the throes of being an alcoholic and a drug addict I put it before everything. I wouldn't have told you that at the time But I put it before my little boy I put it before everything in my life my primary focus and concern if I was running low on meth was getting more Because of what would happen if you ran out didn't have any Well Because It's like a physiological addiction your body craves it. Okay, and and Yeah, if I did if I did run out it got to where in the beginning if if I ran out I was okay, and I waited a week, but then as time went on If I ran out I would start going through really bad withdrawals So again Everybody needs to know that is listening to this we're skipping over a lot of Very important details in your story and it's an incredible story and I know everyone will look forward to hearing more about it. But so some key points, you had an addiction, 17 years, alcohol and meth, and I would be right to say it was really not doing good for your life. There was a lot of bad decisions made. Yeah.

I became somebody that I never thought I would become or could become because alcohol and drugs change who you are. Was there a point in the middle of all of that at some point where you realized it was no longer giving you the life that you desired and you weren't yourself? What was going on psychologically inside of you when you realized this is no longer taking me to the life that I, or to becoming the person that I really want to be? Yeah. So I was in the middle of a really messy situation. I was in the middle of a custody battle and I won't go into the details, but when I was realizing that my addiction and who I had become was going to cause me to lose my only little boy, I was desperate. I was too scared to reach out and ask anybody for help because I thought that I would simply go to jail or prison for having a drug problem. I was also filled with a lot of self-hatred and depression and mixed in with all of that. I had been through several abusive relationships and I was not in a good mental state. I didn't think I could get help from anybody. I didn't feel like I could trust anybody. And then in the back of my head is the addiction saying, just get one more bag. Don't ask for help. Just get it one more time. Why did you think or feel that you couldn't get help from anybody or trust anybody? What brought all of that about? Well, let me ask you a question. Is this ever going to be on YouTube or is it only going to be inside of prison? It could be on YouTube. So you do want to be careful. Yeah. Yeah. There's stuff I'm going to be careful of. Thank you.

I think at the time, I really was afraid that if I went to somebody and confessed that I had a problem with drugs and I knew drugs were illegal, that I would simply get locked up and go to jail because I was admitting to doing something illegal. Okay. Okay. So, but let's go back to when you crossed the border. Okay. Right. Let's just circle right back around to that. You're coming across the border with meth. How much was it? I didn't, but I didn't care by that time. By the time that I walked across that border, I'm talking years have passed from the time I was scared to ask for help. And the time I walked across the border, by that time I had a death wish. I was doing really crazy things and not caring whether or not I died in the process, literally. So in that case, you came across the border, you got across, right? And what'd you do? Well, I didn't get all the way across. As I was crossing, I walked up to a US marshal at the border who had a gun and I told her what I was doing and I turned myself in. They stop every few people at the border, they'll stop you and ask you a couple questions. You know, how long have you been in Mexico? Well, where's your luggage? You know, those questions. And the moment this lady asked me the first question, I felt my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth and my eyes got big and I'm like, I can't lie. I'm done. I'm done. I was just ready to be done.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to key in on, because if I understood correctly, it wasn't that, oh boy, I'm going to get caught. It was, you know what? I'm just done with this. Yeah, I didn't care whether I lived or died. And I was desperate. The night before I walked across the border, I had cried out to God for the first time in my life and asked him to become the center of my life because I was doing so much meth and drinking so much that I was actually almost dead. I was having hallucinations. There was all kinds of things that were happening. Well, I cried out to God. The next morning when I woke up, I didn't think God heard me because I felt I didn't feel different. I had cried out to God. I said, do whatever it takes to save me and rescue me. And then because I didn't see or feel change right away, I thought, oh, God's not able to save me. You know, he's not answering. He didn't hear me. But the reality was, even though I couldn't see what he was doing behind the scenes, he was already at work. And so when I turned myself in at the border, it was God. I felt when I got out of the car and I'm trying to be so careful and not give away a lot of my story. But when I got out of the car of the person who drove me to the border and I started to walk across, I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit come over me like a shield. And I literally was not alone. I walked up to that U.S. Marshal customs officer and she was asking people questions. And I just told her what I was doing. And I turned myself in. What happened? What did they do? Well, I thought they were going to throw me down and put a gun on me and everything. But she was very kind. And I was thinking inside, I was thinking, Julie, what are you doing? Shut up. But she was so kind to me and she said, well, let's go in a little room in the back and we'll take it. You can take it off. And, you know, I had to unduct tape this meth, which was very hard. I had to do it all by myself. And yeah, but she was very kind.

And then I got taken into a room with a man and some somewhere McDonald's bag with a cheeseburger and French fries and a coat got put in front of me. And and I was so devastated that I was about to go to prison that I didn't eat the cheeseburger and the fries. And, you know, looking back, it's like, well, I should have because I wasn't going to get another one of those for a long time. But but it was that moment when, you know, the handcuffs are coming next and you just your heart. My heart sunk like lead into the pit of my stomach. And I was like, I've just messed up worse than I ever have before. Wow. Yeah. And then I I was taken to federal prison in San Diego. And it was there in that prison where I was arraigned at 17 years to life. And about that time, there was a group of prison ministers who came in and these women came in to minister and share Jesus. And one of them saw me crying and sitting on my bunk. And she came over and she sat down and she goes, did you know? Oh, and OK, all everyone in prison knows that if somebody comes in and sits on your bunk, it's a no, no. Right. But she came and she sat on my bunk and she said, did you know that Jesus loves you very much? And I just was like bawling. I'm like, not me. You don't know what I've done. And she kept insisting that no matter what I had done, that Jesus would forgive me, that he already paid the price and died on the cross. And all I had to do was ask him to be my lord and savior and accept the sacrifice he made on the cross and that I would become a brand new person and I will be forgiven. And I gave my life to Jesus Christ that first week in federal prison. And the moment I did, it was like a physical weight broke off of my chest and I was free on the inside for the first time in my life. You said something earlier. And if I remember correctly, it was it was as you were approaching to go across the border with all of this meth strapped to you. Yeah. You made the comment that God was already working on you. Now, I want to ask you something. OK, so bear with me a second. Is that you looking back and seeing what God was doing in your life and putting pieces together or was that did you really know at that moment, at that time in your life that something spiritual, something God, you know, was working on you? Oh, OK. Could you describe what you were feeling at that time that gave you that feeling of definition, that defining moment that God was working your life? Can you describe that? Yes. So when I had the meth strapped around me and I was being driven to the border, I looked out of the window of the car and I saw it was Tijuana and the huts and the poverty and the broken. beer bottles cemented onto brick walls and those were people's homes. And as I was looking at the poverty of the hillside of Tijuana, a voice came into my head and said, Julie, this is the last time you're ever going to see this.

And it kind of got me a little nervous and I was like, what's that? But even deeper inside, I had a feeling it was God talking to me. And at the border, I very clearly felt his presence at the moment of my arrest. And this will probably make you laugh. At the moment of my arrest, I felt the Holy Spirit. I felt a shield like a God bubble shield is how I describe it. And I heard that same voice say, two years, Julie. And I knew that the voice was telling me I was about to do two years in prison. And I also knew by this moment that that voice was God and that he was with me, that he had me, that he had me. But I also thought God didn't know federal sentencing guidelines for four pounds of meth because that's a life sentence, you know? And so I'm like getting arrested and I'm shaking my head, you know, like a crazy person. And again, the voice, you know, God said two years. And not to give it away, but I ended up doing 22 months in federal prison. Instead of 17 to life. You talked about not being able to talk to anybody, trust anybody. You were very concerned about that. And I think that fits a lot of people, okay, in or out of prison at different times in their life. What was your history with spirituality, with church, with God, with the Bible, with any of that, with any sort of spiritual influence in the early part of your life leading up to that moment? Yeah, so when I was really young, my parents took us to a Christian science Sunday school. Am I allowed to say that? Just, I just want you to, yeah. I just did. Anyway, but there were things that were being taught that I didn't believe

because even as a little girl, as a little girl, I knew God was real. And I don't know how I knew that except for the Bible says that God puts a measure of faith inside of each person. And so something in me knew God was real. And I had a Bible as a little girl going to this Sunday school. And I also had a book that was with the Bible called The Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. And it was the Christian science book. And I said, well, even as a small child, Randy, I would open my Bible and I would look at that book. And I knew that what was in that book didn't line up with what was in my Bible. And so I remember going to my dad and saying, I don't want to go back to this Sunday school anymore. And he said, why? And I said, well, because they're not teaching, they're not telling me the truth because they taught that there's no such thing as the devil and that sickness and disease isn't real. And so there were things that I was like, wait a minute, this just doesn't make sense. But that was my little experience going to Sunday school as a little girl. And we didn't go for very long. Also, there was demonic activity in my parents' home when we were growing up. My parents, when we were little, played with a Ouija board. They levitated tables. And I remember growing up and there were demons in our house. Doors would open and close by themselves and lights would turn on and off. And as we grew older, me and my sister grew older, there would be these loud crashes in the middle of the night and we couldn't figure out where it came from. And it got worse from there.

I remember when I was a teenager, something pulled me up out of bed one time and I didn't see anything, but there was a very strong presence of evil right in front of me. From a spiritual standpoint, there was various influences prior to that. My sister did become born again. My older half-sister gave her life to Jesus as a teenager. And when I was 15, she made me do the sinner's prayer with her because she was worried about my soul. And so that would have been my first real... Um, time that I heard that Jesus Christ, um, died so that we could be born again, but I was young and I didn't really understand it at the time. All right. So I, where I was going with all of that is, I went everywhere with it. This is good. Um, just for anybody watching, like I was not prepared for any of these questions. So you're just getting what comes out. So there, there's this word that, uh, Christy Overton Johnson talks about a lot and so do you. That's why this is an interesting fit. It's the word hope. Okay. I think to myself, um, whether inside or out, I mean, people in general struggle a lot of times with hope, hopelessness. So being inside when you were inside, when you were living that life as an incarcerated person, what did the word hope mean to you? I mean, if somebody came and talked to you about hope, was it empty? Was it meaningful or meaningless or what were the stages of that? I mean, how could you, how could you describe that? Hope has a name and his name is Jesus. And I met him personally inside of that prison and I thought I was going to do life and it

didn't even bother me because I had joy when I hope is Jesus Christ. My hope is in Jesus and, um, a personal relationship with him. Um, there, there's nothing there, there's no hope, no joy, like, like I've experienced in a personal relationship with Jesus. And as an incarcerated person, I was full of so much joy because of the hope of Jesus that was in my heart that I was running around and I was witnessing to guards and I was witnessing to other inmates, other incarcerated persons. And you know, I, um, I just had great joy because I realized that this world is not my home. I literally, I started devouring my Bible after I gave my life to Jesus and I realized my home is heaven and you know, circumstances here aren't always perfect, but in the middle of those not so perfect circumstances, there's hope and there's joy that far surpasses. My mom died right before, I am going to give you a spoiler. My mom died right before I got out of prison. I was going to live with her. She was sending me cards in prison. She was buying me clothes. And I got called to the chaplain's office right before I got out. And he told me that my mom who was anxiously awaiting my release had just died in her sleep. And that was one of the first things I prayed after I gave my life to Jesus in prison is, God, please keep my mom alive. And I want to see my son again one day. Those were the two things I asked God. I didn't ask him for a short sentence. I didn't, none of that. Well, the first thing that happened didn't come true. It didn't go the way I prayed. And I thought, okay, I have two choices here. Choice number one is I can give up on God and I can go back to the life I used to live

in the person I used to be. And then, but to me, that's not an option because I'm never going back that way again. That's what repentance is. No matter what you have to walk through that's hard, you are just determined. You're never going back to that person again because you're brand new. And so the other choice was to trust God in the middle of things that hurt that I didn't understand. And my, the hope I had for my future, Jeremiah 29, 11 says, I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a hope and a future. That was literally the first scripture I'd ever read in the Bible when I opened it for the first time. And I stood on the word of God and I said, okay, I know God, you have a hope and a future for me, even though my mom died, even though it didn't go the way I prayed, I'm going to believe you and, and believe that there's still... Well, hope. I want to do something right now. And there's a place I'm going with this. You can figure that out. Let's put you back in that frame of mind prior to prison, what led you to prison. And again, everybody is these teasers. They're going to learn about your story. But I want you to define for me, because hope, is hope an emotion only? Or does hope have some real aspects to it? Because if a person is seeking drugs, alcohol, aren't they hoping that it's going to bring them something? I don't think so. OK.

I think when I was drinking and doing drugs, I didn't have any hope, and I was just numbing myself. My goal was to stay numb so that I didn't have to face reality. OK. So there is no hope, then, in doing things that end up hurting you, hurting yourself, physically, health-wise. It really destroys life. Absolutely. If it's on the path to destruction, it's sapping the very things in life that you're searching for. It's really taking you further away from it. So you mentioned joy. You mentioned Jesus. And I'm trying to make this really real for somebody that might be sitting in that very spot that we just described. So it's one thing for us to come along and say, hey, we're here to deliver hope and smile and joy, and we're happy, and life is wonderful. And it is, because Jesus does make a difference. So I'm going to take you something that was in one of your blogs on your website. OK. Don't you love how I do that? Yes, I'm going through my blogs. Julie! Julie! Randy! God's truth is greater than our circumstances.

Come on, that's it right there. Yes. Talk to me about that. Yes. So there are facts. It was a fact that I was in federal prison. It was a fact that I was facing this time. It was a fact that I was separated from my son. It was a fact that my family wasn't speaking to me. But the truth of God's word, see, God's word is true. And it supersedes facts. And here's the thing. These are the facts. But the truth of God's word says that, therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8 and 1. The truth of God's word in Jeremiah 29, 11 says that God's got a hope and a future for me. The truth of God's word in Ephesians 2 and 10 says that I am his masterpiece. Oh, wait, but what's this? This is a criminal. These are criminal charges. And I've lost my son. And I have no hope. Oh, but God's truth comes along and says, I'm his masterpiece. I'm created in Christ Jesus to do the good things that he had planned for me since before time began. And what happened, Randy, is I put my hope in God's word, which is true.

And these circumstances turned from a mess into a message of hope. That's good. Amen. Way to go, Julie. Way to go, Jesus. No, that's way to go, Jesus. Well, JJ, Julie and Jesus, Jesus through Julie. So you spend your time writing, ministering, where? In prison. In prison, yes. So I told God, I made God a promise, that if he let me out of prison, I would spend the rest of my life going back in and telling people that society has given up on, and they've given up on themselves, and they think they've lost everything, that Jesus Christ loves them, that he knows everything about them, even the stuff that didn't make their rap sheet, and that he died to set them free. and give them a beautiful life and make them a new creation. And the purpose of Jesus, like you don't have to get to what society calls the right side of the razor wire fence to walk in your purpose. So I had told God I would go into prison if he let me out. And I've been out for 25 years and I have been married. God gave me a husband to do prison ministry with me. I've been married to an amazing man of God for 20 years. The first five years were very hard.

That can be another podcast. Cause you know, you have two broken people with no relationship skills who are new Christians and you think, oh, it's going to be perfect. No, it was really hard. But we've been married now for 20 years and doing prison ministry together. And now my husband is a prison chaplain. Oh, wow. Yeah, God gave him an ex-felon as a wife to give him a calling to become a prison chaplain to broken men. And so that is the greatest desire of my life is to minister to prisons and those trapped in addiction. Being that you have shared that, and obviously we need to be careful with details, okay. But in general terms, let's give a shout out to prison chaplains. Yes. Let's love on them for a moment. Let's express how much we need them and appreciate them. They help us a lot, get in and navigate and setting up events. But can you, in a very general way, talk about what it's like when your husband comes home, the burden that he carries. Let's give a shout out to chaplains. Can you just touch on that? Yes.

I wanna cry now because my husband is really called to be a chaplain. He's very special because he cares about the people incarcerated. And he also cares for the volunteers and he cares for the staff. And it's like he's there for everybody. And when a person incarcerated has somebody in their family die, my husband and chaplains are the ones that call that person in and give them the news and pray with them. And I know of situations where maybe somebody incarcerated has overdosed and died while incarcerated. And the prison chaplain is the person who goes in and counsels with and prays with all of the men in that dorm who were there when it happened. And yeah, I could really cry because, yeah, I mean, it's a very special calling. And I'm not gonna say 100% of chaplains have a heart. You know what I mean? Have the heart like my husband does, but it's for those that do and many do. They're not in it for the paycheck. They're in it because they're God-picked, hand-picked to do time in prison with the people incarcerated there. I was speaking in a prison a few months ago and it just came upon me

because I spent a little time in the chaplain's office, which it's really cool to get to know a chaplain if they'll take the time. And this one was just special. So many of them are. And in this particular case, when I stood in front of a group of men in the gymnasium that they had gathered together to hear me speak, I said to them, you're here in this room today because you chose to be, but you're not here, meaning the prison, because you chose to be. But I said, that man right there, or in a case of woman, that chaplain right there, me, them, we're here because we chose to be. And I want that to resonate to the incarcerated. So I want to touch on this a little bit and gosh, we could talk and talk and talk for hours, even though I know it's very difficult to get you to talk, to share anything. You're so reserved and quiet. Yeah, that's sweet, reserved and quiet. Yeah, me too. We have that in common. What is it about Victorious Living? You're a new team member. What do you feel about that? Can you just touch on that? Now I'm gonna cry again because I'm so overjoyed and honored and humbled to be part of the team.

When I was incarcerated, Victorious Living Magazine was not a thing yet. But now it's everywhere in jails and prisons and I know, so I got to know Christy because Christy Overton Johnson met her in person at a prison where my husband is the chaplain. I got to meet Sheridan, I got to meet JC. So I got to meet team members and it struck me that they're the most humble, sincere, real, transparent human beings who passionately love going inside of prisons to share the love of Jesus. And then Pat Avery, I've had hour long conversations on the phone with him already in a very short time and he's wonderful. You're wonderful. This is our first lengthy conversation. And I just feel very humbled that God would allow me to be on a team with people who are just so real and so caring and who do what you do. Thank you. I wanna say one thing too and see if you agree with me. Okay. I had been talking to a group of guys at a prison here in Florida and I had told them, I said, you know, when we get together and have team meetings, talk about the ministry, the plans, have devotions together or whatever, there's, when we've just come out of a prison, we talk about it, what it did to us,

what it meant for us. We're getting ministered to. I mean, it's an adrenaline rush of, you know, so, and I get this from you, so let's underscore it. I, we, and I know I speak for the team too. When we go into a prison, it's not like, okay, let's go in there and, you know, let's teach them something new or it's just, it's an honor and a privilege. Yes. And to be able to go in and share our heart and give a little love to the unloved and give a little hope to the hopeless. Yeah. When we come out, it's like, we're all hugging each other and just like, whoa, wow. Yeah. My husband and I went and did our first prison chapel service right shortly after we got married. And when we came out of that first chapel service, it was in California and we drove down that dirt road. We looked at each other with tears pouring down our face and we knew that that's what we were going to spend the rest of our life doing because they impacted us. You know, we felt like we were more blessed for having been given the privilege to go in. Because we see Jesus all over people inside of prison who come to chapel service and they're worshiping God and they have joy. Let me tell you, there is no Holy Ghost party

like a prison praise and worship team. I'm just saying. And churches outside, there's prison, sorry, praise and worship teams, but to see it inside the prison, there's nothing like it. Alrighty, I have to bring a close to this. All right. What does Julie want to say on the way out right here? What do you want to say? Well, I just, I don't know. You've asked me a lot of questions that I wasn't prepared for. So I feel like I stumbled all over the place for the last 30 minutes, but I just want to say that where there is Jesus, there is hope and great hope. And I just know that the best is yet to come no matter what side of the razor wire fence you're on. And you can suffer great loss and God is right there with you and he'll never leave you. He'll never forsake you. And choosing Jesus and giving your all. and surrendering your all to Jesus is worth it. It's worth the things you give up. It's worth maybe being made fun of by other people. It's worth it all. Jesus is worth it all. God's truth. God's truth is better than your circumstances.

Is that what you were waiting for me to say? No, no. I wanted to just kind of slide it in there. Yes. That really hit me. Yes. Julie Seals, it's been great having you today. Thank you so much for being here, taking this time. Thank you. I can't wait to come back and share my whole story. Oh, I imagine that'll be fun. Yes. Thanks, Julie. Thank you for watching our broadcast. Are you an incarcerated brother or sister who needs encouragement? Write to us at Victorious Living Correspondents, P.O. Box 2751 Greenville, North Carolina, 27836. Or email us at hope at vlmag.org. To view Victorious Living Magazine in its entirety, please have your chaplain contact us at 352-478-2098. Or email us through our website at vlmag.org. We are happy to provide our Victorious Living Magazine free of charge, in bulk, with or without staples.