Adam's Pastor - Roger Spahr

is trying to learn what it looks like to fully live and follow Jesus in the middle of real life. It is one thing to be someone on Sundays, but what about Monday through Saturday? And so here, we're going to talk about faith and making a difference in the messy, ordinary moments where it's often the hardest to live out. Some weeks, I'll share what God is teaching me. Other weeks, I'll sit down with leaders, pastors, athletes, friends. There's no fluff, just encouragement and truth for your life between Sundays. I'm so glad you're here. Well, hello, crew. Welcome back to "Welcome Back," between Costco. Welcome back. Welcome to fall. It is officially fall in South Dakota. It showed up out of nowhere. You're not a fan of fall. I love fall. I hate what follows fall. I know. The fall is the best. I'm able to wear it close like this. I know. I did walk out this morning and I was like, "Okay, this air actually feels really good." It does feel good. It feels like refreshing. It's so good. But then it's very confusing because you leave in the morning wearing your jacket, but after you leave work today, it's going to be 90 degrees. It's going to be blazing hot, stifling. You're not going to be able to dress like that anymore. That's why it's layers. You just take it off and then you've got a t-shirt on. Smart. It's great. Just thinking ahead. Welcome. Again, this is episode 355. We are super glad that you are here. We have a fun episode today. Adam got to interview Roger Sparr. Yeah. My pastor, I got to speak at Roger's 25th anniversary years ago. I literally, he led me to Christ, led me to Jesus, led me to my wife, led me to ministry, the seminary I went to, had the idea for embrace. I owe him a lot. Imagine if you never wrote him at him. It's one of those pivotal moments in life. You don't even know it in the moment, but it's like, Oh, this is literally going to shape my entire life. Everything about me. Here's down the road. It's crazy. Yeah. So we'll get to his interview before that. We're going to go through some high low buffalo, high, high of the week, low, low of the week, buffalo, meaning random. You can choose whatever you want. You don't have to have all three. If you have all three, that's fantastic, but pick and choose what you would like to share. So lows, I never have lows. I probably drive everyone around me insane, but like, my life is so good. So if I have a low, I just need to suck it up. Okay. So literally life is really good. It's, it's hard. It's messy for sure. Like stressful times stress and then just even like felt some grief stuff yesterday with my brother. My niece is was, had a coordination last night and just really missed him and whatever. So there's definitely messy, messy parts, but gosh, life is really,

really good. My buffalo, I got to bring up the NFL is the bingles defense. Let's go. Oh my gosh. We got the, you know, next to the risen savior, Joe burrow, but man, the defense has not been there. Like it's been non-existent when I say not there. And then so what's the game? What changed the game? Like I don't understand like how well they did a whole bunch of things the bingles never do. They got like all kinds of like they actually picked up free agents, which we never do. And then we drafted and then our second year guys are coming in. The defense looked incredible. Seriously, Baker Mayfield, who I'm a fan of, he looked like a high school quarterback against their defense. It was Baker. I just need to apologize because he's a Jesus follower, Baker is. Yeah. So Baker, I'm sorry for our defense. We dominated. So I feel very. They won, right? And they did it. They, the offense is going to get some, they're going to figure some things out because Joe burrow is there. So we're going to be good. But that's my buffalo. Okay. My high. I got several highs, but with my niece, the coronation last night was super cool. We announced that as a church embrace here in Sioux Falls, we're pursuing a new campus, which will be our broadcast campus. So we shared that publicly for the first time on Sunday, which was really, really exciting. And then also we had Embrace's 20th birthday, which is just wild that it was 20 years old. So it was crazy. Yep. So it was a fun Sunday. There's a lot going on and a lot of moving pieces, but it was very, very cool Sunday. It was, it was really, really neat. Just really, really grateful. And well, speaking of our guest today, Roger was there and I didn't know what service he was going to be at. So I spotted him and literally during the service, I'm like, Roger, can you stand up? And so it's fun just to honor him and just to see the impact that the Lord has had through his life is really, really cool. Yeah, that is cool. Okay. 20 years. I have two questions. Yes, sure. Okay. When you think about 20 years of like being a pastor leading the church, was the one biggest lesson that you have learned in the past 20 years. The Lord can use anybody. I think the Lord can use anybody. place. Because I, and this isn't me being humble. I am nothing special. Like, I mean, there are so many other great communicators and pastors and leaders. I am, yeah, I'm just not incredibly like, I mean, my goal, someone just asked me, what was your goal when we started embrace? I said literally 200 people for whatever

reason. I'm like 200 people, we can pay the light bills, and we can maybe see life changed. And so I think just that, like, if you say yes to God, it may not turn into a large church, but he can do amazing things for you. So that's what I would say. Cool. Yeah. Cool. One other question I have, this one's kind of fun. When you think like 20 years, is there like one specific, there's probably a ton, but like one specific memory where you're like, this was so cool. Like, I just love this church. I love these people. Like I'm so I would struggle to have one. I don't know if there's one that just like pops on your mind. Like, I just couldn't even believe that this was happening. Well, maybe I'll just even like the most recent one, because I literally can't pick one. So this last Saturday, it's the day before we're going public with this new campus, which is super exciting, but it's also really overwhelming. And so Saturday morning, I walked from a message early here over at the office and I was struggling horrible with anxiety. So so anxious, so anxious, so anxious. I texted several of my friends to be praying. And then before I went home, I went and sat at a coffee shop downtown. And as soon as I walked in, there was a gal, she had to have been your age. And I walked in and she's like, Adam, and I'd never seen her before. And I was like, yeah, and she just seemed really fun and cool. She's like, how exciting is it that we're doing this new campus? And I was like, what? And she's like, I cannot stop talking about it. It's so exciting. Like, God is going to reach so many people for Christ. And I was like, oh, and she's like, how are you feeling about it? And I was like, I I'm really excited. But honestly, I'm really anxious right now. And I'm just like, so I'm just really struggling with being anxious. And she's like, I just want you to know like God is

behind this. And I'm going to be praying for you and whatever. And it, I told her, I said, honestly, you feel like an angel from the Lord. Yeah. Like it was just, it was just one of those moments of God just like meeting me right where I was. I'd never known like I didn't, I don't think I've ever met her. And so it's just one of those like, like Adam, I'm with you. And I just feel like there's been so many of those moments. And so that's what I would say. I was like, Lord, thanks for sending this angel. You're like, I needed this right now. Oh, I did. I did. And I'm like, Lord, you're just so kind. So I went and sat down and I was like all sappy. I'm like, what is it? I was like, are you kidding me? Are you a plant? Like, what are you? Yeah, someone tell you to like my mom start or somebody like start texting people. Like, how amazing courage. Someone go find him now. Find him right now. Oh, that's great. Thanks for sharing that. That's really cool. Yeah. So we're excited to have Roger on. Yeah. Again, he was your pastor growing up, right? Yeah, growing up. So he is the pastor at the church. My sophomore year of high school. I wanted nothing to do with God was very outspoken. Like, tell them I would tell Christians they need to read science books. I was like, you don't know what you're talking about. This is so crazy. So we went to his church and the Lord transformed me and I met Jesus through Roger Sparr. And then throughout my life, Roger has just continued to pour into me and build me up and give me opportunities that I didn't deserve. So we just talk about that. We also talk about just to embraces early years and how we got started, which I think would be really cool for people to hear. And then we just talked about just fate, God's faithfulness over time. He shared some really cool things. My favorite part of this was when he just

really just built me up, honestly. And so that was just really encouraging. And I'm so glad that I had this interview before I'm not able to have this interview at some point. Yeah. Roger's not getting younger and I'm not getting younger. And so it was just really holy time. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation. So Roger, I wrote down a list of all the things that I owe you for. You're the pastor that led me to Christ. You led me to my wife. You led me into ministry. You led me to Asbury, where I went to seminary. You had the idea for a new church in Sioux Falls. I don't know if I've missed anything in there, but I feel like I owe you a whole bunch. That's pretty close. It's basically eternity, my wife, my occupation, my calling in life. Yeah, just to sum it up even more. Yeah, I wanted full disclosure that we are related. So I have to say good things about you. Yes. Roger is my uncle in law. So that's the to this day, I consider you my pastor. I'm mentioning you this Sunday. And so the people have embraced here about you a whole bunch, both directly by name and the pastor. And when I thought about you, Roger, you just led me so well. You had me speak when I got back from a conference, my sophomore year on stage. And I remember you telling me, "Hey, Adam, I think you might have a gift." Then one time I came from college and you encouraged me to go back and lead something. Then you told me about an opportunity in Wauffton, North Dakota.

Then you told me about seminary. What I wanted to ask was those and how you led me, was that intentional? Were you intentionally thinking, I'm gonna try to grow Adam as a pastor, as a person? And was there others that you were doing that? Was that intentional or just kind of Holy Spirit nudges along the way? - I, both. I think, you know, I saw the giftings that God had given you and saw the heart and the desire. And so I would say it was more nurturing than a long-term plan. - Yeah. - But just seeing that God had your future, there was a lot there. - Yeah. - And in the, you know, you had the gifts to do it. And so I know it's a lot listening to the Spirit and listening to God. - Would you say, and I'm grateful for your kind words there, have you done that with others? When did you begin to do things like that? Whether it was for me or other people? - Yeah. - Maybe even back, did someone do that for you? - Yes. When I was in high school, I gave my life to Christ when I was a senior in high school. And Sam Graff was a pastor.

And Sam, he was behind the scenes crafting some things and helping me to make decisions that were life-changing. And so I had him as a mentor, went off to college, was in the navigators at SDSU and had some great mentors there too, you know, that were leading. And I knew I was supposed to be headed to seminary at some point and I tried to avoid it as much as I could. I've told people that if I had a patron saint, bobblehead and the dashboard of my car, yeah, it would be Jonah. Most of the places God led me, I really didn't want to go. And, but I knew that's where God wanted me to be. - Did someone suggest seminary to you? - Or Sam Graff, he did. - That pastor did, he suggested Asbury and I'd never heard of Asbury, but that's where I ended up. And I was kind of like you, I got married and headed off to Asbury for three years. And it was an amazing experience. - Yeah, it's interesting when people asked me who discipled me, I'm like, oh, Roger did, but not through a course. You discipled me through life. Like I've never been in a course with you or you've discipled me for a year, but I just look back at everything I read off. That is like discipleship 101, yeah. - Yeah, and I think when you're a pastor of a church, a lot of it is that, you're not necessarily one-on-one

with everybody, but it's seeing where God is leading and the people that God brings into your life and helping people find where is God taking me. And it's not, you're not just looking for people who are gonna be pastors, it's folks who can change folks' lives in businesses or teaching or farming or whatever that if you can help people find their giftings and to use it, whatever course of life that they're on, that's exciting to me and that's what it's about. - I think, 'cause one of my love languages is being able to help do that within people. It's just to see what's inside them and kind of call it out. And I honestly think I got that from you, Roger. I just met with a business person this morning and just encouraged them in their walk with God and hey, I see this in you and think about it, if you started doing this at your business and you can just see the wheels turning and get the excitement building. Any advice that you would say, like how to grow someone up or how to call something out in somebody? If I'm a banker or I'm a business owner, how can I do that? Because I'm not a pastor. You know, I think it starts with relationships and being real with people. One of the worst pieces of advice I got as a young pastor was from some of the older pastors in my conference, and we were at a conference together and I'm in a small group with all these older pastors and they said, "Roger, don't ever get too close to the people in your church because someday you're going to have to move and there'll be jealous of the people if you develop a special relationship and you're going to make it hard in the next pastor coming in."

And I thought, what if Jesus would have had that attitude? He picked 12 and then he had a larger group than that but he invested his life in them because that's how a discipleship works. It's relationship and it's modeling and it's helping people get into situations where it stretches them. And that's where discipleship happens and so that can happen in any phase of life. So one of the things I'd love to do was get people away from the regular life study environment. And so we did mission trips, we did camps, I had a roommate in college who was a professor up at North Dakota State which I won't say anything bad about North Dakota State but he taught rural sociology but he also had an MDiv and so he had a seminary degree and so every year he would teach a course on spirituality and sociology and he would do a survey every year asking what was the most significant single experience that developed your relationship with God. And this was, he would give this whether they were atheists or Protestant or Catholic or Jewish or whatever and he found there were three things that affected most people's lives with a great change and one was a peer church organization in college. One was camping, going off to a church camp and one was going on a mission trip. And what do all three of those have in common? It gets somebody away from where they've been and an opportunity to be around a Christian person and see life from a different perspective. It changes the dynamics and it changes your whole paradigm. And so that's what Jesus did because he took his disciples and he just did ministry with him and then they'd get together and talk about it and some of things blew him away and sometimes they actually learned something. Yeah. I just, again, that kind of simple form of discipleship I feel like is what has so much power in it. Yeah. I love that you mentioned modeling it, just living it out and allowing other people to see it and then putting people in places where they can be stretched out of their comfort

zone, whether it's a mission trip, getting away or even right now I'm trying to encourage a friend of mine to lead a prayer time. And you can just tell it's like, you can feel the stretch on him and yet I just know that he's growing so much or even when we, when we do adult baptisms, I'll often ask close friends, hey, do you want to help with baptisms? And it's like, oh, it's like, oh, you can just stand there. And then by the end of the morning, they're doing most of the pastoral talking and it's so fun just to see that moment of being stretched. Before we go any further, we just want to give a huge shout out to our partners who make life between Sundays possible. Adam, what do you got for partners today? Yeah. As always, our partners are amazing. Our first partner is Mission Haiti. Mission Haiti is a nonprofit that I have known for over a decade. I mean, like years and years and years, their goal is to love Jesus, love others and make disciples in the country of Haiti. One of their biggest ministries, they do so much in Haiti. It's truly, every time I'm there, I'm like, this is incredible about what all you do. But one of the main things that they do is their student education program where they provide a Christian education, they provide access to health care, they provide like meals. I mean it's, it's, it transforms their lives. It's not just like improving their lives, it's totally changing their lives. And so I just want to strongly encourage you, if you want to make a difference, sponsor a child through Mission Haiti. Go to mission-hatie.org. We are currently sponsoring Becky and I, sponsoring three kids through Mission Haiti. Every time we do a Mission Haiti Sunday at Embrace, I'm like, "Sign us up for another kid." And because I'm like, "I just know it's going to change them." And so I just want to encourage you, mission-hatie.org. You won't regret it.

Our second partner is Vern Idi Mitsubishi. I love Vern Idi so much. If you are looking for a vehicle of any kind, I don't go anywhere else. It's been so cool. Becky had a friend of hers at her hot fitness class. Someone's like, "Do you know of somebody, a vehicle in my own wife who is not this extrovert like I am?" He's like, "You need to talk to Jared at Vern Idi, and here is his contact information." And so Jared, we're basically sharing your phone number everywhere. I'm so sorry. I don't know if that's okay or not, but we do that. It's probably good. So if you are looking for a vehicle, an Acura, a Mitsubishi, a Honda, just go to Vern Idi, they'll ship it to you. Even this the other day, I was sending vehicles to my son because his vehicle is... We're told that it is close to meeting Jesus. Hudson's? Hudson's many van. Oh, no. They just told him the engine is gone, and so we're like, "Maybe it's a least situation with a Honda." Go to Vern Idi.com, folks. Roger, you shared about coming to Christ and being called in a ministry where you've mentioned before discovering that you had the gift of being an apostle. Can you share that? I just have heard you mention that before. When you kind of realized you had that gift and what does it look like? Was that helpful to get that term to know what? Extremely helpful, but what was strange is I'd been doing it for a long time and I didn't have any way to identify what that was because I just assumed my major gifting was being a pastor. Yeah. And I was at a conference, I don't know if you know who Ellen Hirsch is. Oh, yeah. I was at a conference, I didn't know who this guy was from Adam. Yeah.

But in fact, I thought he was some hippie that came off the street and he started to talk about the fivefold giftings and when he got to the apostle ship, it was like, that's it. Do you know the other, do you know the five? Well, it's the evangelist, prophet, teacher, evangelist, prophet, teacher. And no worries if you don't. And then a puzzle and explain the apostle part. What is that? Okay. The apostle is somebody who's going out on the edges and starting new things to reach new people. Yeah. And so it has a heart to start and to go outside the boundaries of the church walls and to begin to do things. And I've always loved to do that. That was kind of how embrace got started. Yeah. But I didn't have an understanding of what it meant to be a apostle when I was doing that. And it was after all these things that it started to really resonate that this is exciting and this is why I get energy from it. Yeah. You know, there are some things that you do that you need to do it and they're important things and it's not that you don't like to do it, but it doesn't give you energy. Yeah. But then you get into the zone on some things and you can't get enough of it. And that's how you start to understand, you know, if this is where my giftings are. And if you can get into that place where you just sense that God has given you the ability to do this and the heart to do it. Yeah. And it wasn't until at what point in your ministry did you get that actual, did you find out kind of that word for you. Well, I bet it was I bet I'd been in ministry for 30 years. You know, because nobody ever explained what an apostle was. I just thought the apostles were those folks that lived a long time. and understanding of why this fit. Yeah, that's so helpful. And I feel like different times when I've been able to like, to grab onto something like that, it's like, Oh, okay, that understands why are this way and driven this way and life given this way. What do you think

that? And where do you think that heart for the lost came inside of you? Like, where does that come from? Is there a specific moment? You come to Christ, or was there a moment where that clicked for you? And you're like, Oh, I want to spend the rest of my life reaching people for Christ. You know, when I was a senior in high school, we had what they called a youth lay witness mission at our church. Yeah. And this was during the Jesus revolution era of 1971 in that time frame. And basically, these hippies from Omaha showed up at our church who were new Christians. I mean, they'd been in the drug scene. They'd they'd show up at our church and start sharing their faith with us. I'd been in church my whole life. I had never heard anybody share their faith with me like that. And that's where I gave my life to Christ that day in the steps of the church, so long with about 20 central and no bank at central and millbank. Yeah. And it was, I think 20 other kids in our youth group gave their lives to Christ at that point. And we we that's awesome. Things change tremendously in our lives. And we had more enthusiasm than we had wisdom. But we were out preaching in the streets. 1/4 of July, we drive a pickup truck on the beach building south Dakota. Yes. Yeah. We're trying to pick up truck. What is happening with big speakers on it onto the beach of Hartford Beach and start doing baptisms on the beach on the 4th of July. And you know, we just wanted to share faith. And when I came to Christ, I knew this is what I wanted to do. This is this is why I've been put here is is to share this most wonderful message of the gospel of Christ. And I think where it really came to heart for me was it was that next year I was home from college. And I ran into one of my friends from high school. And we were neighbors and, you know, had gotten to know each other. But I I knew that he was wandering without the Lord in his life. And we we I ran into him at a grocery store. And I knew that God was kind of nudging me to just share how I'd been changed. Yeah. And I thought, you know, this isn't the right place. It isn't the right time. And so I didn't do it. About a week later, I find out that he was run over by a truck and killed. And that that struck my heart. I mean, it was like Roger, you heard God saying you need to say something, you know, just, you know, the change that happened in my life. I didn't have to go into a lot. But I, I refused to do it. And I thought that that was attorney moment for me. And in realizing that this, this is something that I have to be intentional about. Yeah. And not just hoping for the right moment. Yeah. Whoa. So thanks

for sharing that. Yeah. So your time at 9th Avenue, which became Cornerstone, how many years were you at 9th Avenue? 28 years. Wow. And like for me, when I think of movements of God and churches in Northeastern South Dakota, I mean, I just think about what God did at 9th Avenue, which became Cornerstone. Would you, if you could put your finger on one or two things that you feel like God just blessed during, during your ministry, Roger? And like, if you could just put like, I think this and this is what he honored and blessed. You know, I tell pastors, be patient because we want things to happen fast and we, we, we want to make things happen. Yeah. And if you look at the history in the Bible, God doesn't rush. And there's, there's God's time and there's my time and God's time timing is and there were really good things happening. I even was going to start a doctoral program, and I realized my motives were wrong in doing it. But it was later on that I decided it is now time, I was kind of getting burned out, and so I started this doctoral program and it was on church leadership, and so I had to do a thesis at the end of it, and so I did the thesis on prayer and fasting in the church. And I grabbed 12 people that, you know, some were longtime saints of God and some were new Christians, and I said, "I'd like to do this thesis on this, and would you commit praying for our church every day, and we're going to meet once a week, and we're going to pray for our church, because our church was kind of stuck." Yeah. And that was, we'd had some staff issues and discouragements. How many years was this into your ministry? This is probably 15 years. Okay, 15 years in. Yeah. Something like that. And we started to pray, you know, I got a six-month commitment, and I did a survey in the church beforehand, and a survey of the people in the group, beforehand, just in their spiritual life and things. At the end of the six months, we did the survey again, and people in the church, something changed, and most people confer what it was, but there was a different spirit in the church. Yeah. And the people that were in the group, it changed them, too. And that was the beginning of God really starting to do some things. I think in one of the years, we had over a hundred people who came to Christ, following that. Yeah. And then we were making decisions about moving and building a new church, because the church was starting to take off and growing faster. And God brought the right staff together. Yeah. You know, we just kind of struggled before that, but we just started to see something happen. And so the next 14, 15 years, whatever it was, were really fun. Yeah. Yeah. Not that we didn't have issues, but you just sensed that God was in it.

Yeah. And you didn't have to force ministry, it just happened. Yeah. So you would say that that was a huge turning point. It was. Is there anything else that you'd put your finger on of just like God really blessed and honored this? Even just like a posture of your heart, or is there it doesn't have to even be anything, anything fancy? Is there anything else that comes to mind? Yeah. You know, we, we had talked about this. You know, there's different teachers and books, excuse me, that changed my thinking and my life. This Alan Hirsch thing, but also Henry Blackaby and, you know, experiencing God. Yeah. And I know you're doing that with your staff right now. Yeah. Yeah. And that I don't have to create ministry, I just have to go where God is already working. Yeah. And get involved in it. Yeah. That was, that changed my whole attitude about ministry and it became fun instead of work. That book. So I, are we, I need to bring the entire staff through it. I gave a copy to our lead team and have been giving it out to quite a few leaders in our church. And it's been really, really phenomenal. So the idea of a new church in Sioux Falls, how did that come about? There are any specific moments or memories or conversations that, that you remember, like, how embrace ended up coming about? Well, that was one of those things where you see God doing something and I just need to get involved with it because you were, excuse me, coming to the place in Seminar, I think you had a year left or so. Yes. And you were a feeling, God calling you to plant a church. Yeah. My kids were out of college, And they were down here in Sioux Falls and they were having our time finding a church. - Yep. - And I'm thinking, something's going on here and maybe we should just look at, maybe we should plant a church down here. So I was working with our conference and trying to get them to buy into this program of appointing you to a church plant. They had all kinds of reasons why not to do it, yeah. They said, well, you can't do it with a new seminary graduate, you know, it'll never work.

Excuse me. So anyway, I was working with them, but I was also coming down once a month. And the people from that youth group were getting their friends together and I would come down once a month and have a worship service. And I was getting commitments to be part of this new church plant before you got here. And we had about 50, I think, by the time you got here. - Yeah, yeah. - Really strong-- - Awesome, people. - Believers and excited for their faith. And I was meeting with the conference leadership and they said, well, you know, this can't work. I said, if I were coming out of seminary and I had 50 people like this waiting, I'd jump on it at a heartbeat. - Yes. - And I said, you know, I just believe God's working in this. Well, there was a lot of resistance on the conference level and I won't go into all that. But there was one meeting I knew it was make or break. - Yeah. - And so I go into the cabinet meeting which is a bishop in the district superintendents. And I knew that they were trying to make a decision. And so out of the blue, I just said, if you guys will support this,

cornerstone will give $130,000 over the next four years to make it happen too. And I walked out of that meeting thinking, I didn't get any approval from my church to do this. And I thought, well, I'll go back and I talked with the finance folks. We didn't budget it. I said, let's just pray that God brings it in. And over the next four years, I was able to share with the congregation miracle after miracle of when the money came in. - Yeah. - That was awesome. - That is awesome. Yeah. I just feel like there are so many God moments that even I'm unaware of, that has led to what, what a holiday all came about. I can remember the very first gatherings with September 4th, 2006. And you knew I was coming back to do my brother's wedding. And so you're like, Adam, you sent an email and I'll send an email who will see who shows up. And I can remember that night, 32 people showed up and I was depressed and you were beaming. You were so excited. I'm like, what are we doing? I'm just, and then I can, I'll never forget my first computer came from you.

You gave me a computer and a leather case. - Oh yeah. - And I thought, yeah, I was glad to get rid of that one. - Exactly. - Well, I thought I'd won the lottery. I'm like a computer. I've never had my own computer. But it's just really crazy to look back. And I, the idea of a new church was your idea, not mine. And I just think about all the fruit that's come from that. And the initial financial part of it was cornerstone, not embrace years into it, three years into it. We were almost close 'cause we still didn't have any money outside the support we were getting. And I think those are such cool moments to look back on. And since that time, just so many different God moments in miracles and people who no one knows about stepping forward with money, stepping forward to volunteer and serve. And it's just incredible. - Yeah, so we're celebrating 20 years this September, which is hard to believe. Any thoughts on that from your perspective? Any wisdom on that from your perspective? - You know, there are people who will look at you in this church and I think how fortunate you are to be here. - Yeah. But they don't know the blood, sweat and tears that it takes. - Yeah. - And just to be faithful in the ups and downs.

- Yeah. - And I've told people you're really not a pastor until you've walked through the fire. Ugh. on God because you're not going to make it if you are doing it on your own. Yeah. You know, it's a God thing when these things happen because I've seen in my own ministry people who have a lot more gifts and a lot more talents who, you know, I've just seen God do some things that I think it was by the grace of God totally by the grace of God. And they want to know your formula and it's like there really isn't a formula. It's just being sensitive to God and being faithful and enduring. Yeah. I just had a pastor in my office today, not from embrace to stop in and just ask me to pray for him and his church and was in tears and, you know, am I supposed to quit in the whole nine yards and it just, it's, it's not similar. Other occupations have different stresses as well. And for me, it's never felt like an occupation. It's just felt like a calling that I have to do. But there's definitely been moments where I want to give, want to give up. Any, would you have a word of challenge for us as we step into this 20th year? Like is there any challenge that you would have for us in this next year and this next 20 years, anything that you'd have there? There's always a mountain ahead that God calls us to take. Yeah. And so I never get too comfortable. I dream of comfortable right now. No, I know. I do too. I'm retired now, and God called me to help in a brand new denomination to help it get going.

And I'm thinking, God, I'm, I really kind of like just being retired, but, you know, but I also know, you know, it's not about being retired. It's about being faithful. Yeah. And so whatever stage of life you're in to figure out what it is, where you can use the gifts that God has given you to build the kingdom of God for eternity. Yeah. And so you keep moving forward in, in, in following the spirit of God no matter what, what place you're at in life. I love that even idea. Do you want to, is there anything more you'd add on? There's always another mountain, anything else that you would say with that? You know, we live in a culture right now that is moving probably faster away from understanding the gospel than we are moving towards it. And so if the church doesn't step up, I, you know, Jesus talked about that the church brings salt and light. Yes. And is preservative and is understanding the wisdom of God. Well, we need that as a culture as much or more than we've ever needed it. And, you know, the church is the salt and the light that we've been put into this world to be that and we as individuals are the church. Yeah. It's not a building, it's not an organization, it's not a denomination. God has called us individually to be part of the family of God and we're really going back to Adam and Eve that we've been put in this earth in order for people to see God in us and to want to experience God because they see it in us. And that's what the church is supposed to be. And I know many people have had bad experiences with churches because it's made of fallible people. But one of the things that just hit me, I can't remember who said it, but if you read 1 Corinthians

13, it's the love chapter, you know, and it's used in weddings and love is patient, love is kind, love doesn't boast in all this. That's a description of God. Yeah. You know, God is patient, God is kind. Yeah. And that's mind blowing when you start to think that is God. That we have a God that's like that. And so many of us have a very work view of God, that it's a judgmental, harsh, distant type of a God. And if there's one thing that I'm learning more and more is how close God is. In fact, there's a sermon in me that's coming out in that, you know, that the kingdom of God is this dimension that is so close to us, but we're blind to it. Yeah. And so the church is the living representation of God on earth. Well, man, you start thinking about the responsibility that God has given us. And God has given us free will to decide how to do this. And I'm thinking, God, you have a lot more faith and humanity than I do. But that's mind blowing to me, you know, and, you know, of, I want people to know that. Yeah. Well, Roger, I just want to say thank you. I think about all the things that I listed off at the start of how you've impacted my life. And I know that I'm one of hundreds, one of thousands who could say the same thing. And thanks for not playing it safe. Thanks for stepping out of your comfort zone. Thanks for every time you preach. You just have such a tenderness when you're preaching that what I'm talking about this Sunday as how when I came to North 9th Avenue, the first time it was the first time of my life, instead of the pastor's words going over my head, they hit me in the chest. And so I just, I feel like I can't thank you enough.

Uh, here, here's the thing that is exciting for me is I'm a grandpa. And when I first saw my son having holding his child, I didn't have a whole lot to do with that. But I took credit for it. And I feel that way with, with embrace, it's like seeing my grandkids. Succeeding in being faithful to God. Yeah. And I was a little prophetic with the district superintendent when the, when the church was just getting started and they were about ready to close you guys down. You remember that? Yes, I do. I met with that district superintendent after he taught to you. And I said, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen here? I said, you have a hundred people showing up on Sunday nights. 90% of them are in small groups. Yeah. I said, you show me another church that has 90% of the people in small groups that are growing in their faith. And I'll show you a healthy church. And I said, the worst thing that's going to happen is this going to become the biggest church in the conference and God is going to bless it. And Adam could be in it for the rest of his life. And when I look back on that, that was prophetic because, you know, God has used you. But the people that God has put around you. You know, I remember when Travis. Yeah. Wellner and staff and that was out of a gift from a person from Cornerstone. Yes. He took me out golfing, says, how could I help embrace? And I said, well, you could help them the most. They have to staff beyond what they can afford.

I said, would you consider. Providing the funds to hire the next pastor for two years. And he says, I can do that. Yeah. And that's when Travis came on and I thought that's a miracle. And you know, God has been so good. And so I feel like this grandparent is watching this. I'll go on and, you know, that's a reward in itself. Well, thank you so much for joining in. Thanks to Roger for running down from Watertown to join us in person. It was, it was just great to meet him and great kinds of time with him. Yeah. Thanks to our partners as well. Mission Haiti. So grateful for the work that you're doing along with Vernon. I just feel so honored, love you guys so much. Can't believe that you tune in each and every week. I hope that it encourages you and pushes you closer to Jesus and just has an impact in your life. But have an awesome day and a fantastic rest of your week. Thanks, guys. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]