Most of Your Friends Don't Actually Know You | POP Podcast Ep. 3

well hello friend welcome to pop pop progression over perfection podcast uno, dos, tres, cuatro! you cannot talk about progression without talking about the people in your life aka your community I think I'm getting passionate about this because relationship is a risk but it's a risk that it's worth taking to look back on how God established this relationship and any relationship that has been powerful in my life it has been started with vulnerability shout out to Steve and greatest producer ever Steve he said the right voices don't shrink you they sharpen you there's people watching right now that they need to be sharpened and it's not gonna come through isolation it's gonna come through building relationships that take time that's a whole nother conversation like when you like we had a science fair project thing I was gonna try to prove that a dog's mouth was cleaner than a human's mouth by having a human and a dog lick a petri dish somebody calling me right now that might be my wife that's the only reason I'm looking right here it's my wife go ahead brother you go hello okay Jay's gonna call you tell me what you need I love you so much I'm doing a pop podcast I made a shocking statement I said Natalie's not my soul mate and everybody was like oh my god hello friend welcome to pop progression over perfection podcast my name is Charles and my name is Michael and today we have an exciting show episode I don't know we're new at this we are man it's my first time outside for real and I think one of the big things that we are trying to model is um being okay with things becoming better and I think that is the whole essence of this podcast we had opportunities to do this in a lot of different ways we could have done a lot of things I'll just say it like that but we decided we wanted to model what progression over perfection looked like we wanted to sit down we wanted to talk to leaders we want to talk to business owners we want to talk to people who are walking in their faith journey athletes we want to talk to people like us who have been on a journey to figure out how our purpose and our calling mix to be able to do what God's called us to do so you are tuned in to the pop podcast and today if you would like to go on this journey with us and see how we progress I want you to like share tag us on

social media let us know you're watching I'm just going off everything I see my kids the people that my kids watch on YouTube like smash that like yeah bro like I don't even know how to do this but we are so excited and we have a great conversation for you today so Charles what we talking about today man today's going to be a great great conversation before we jump into that man how do we been how you doing my week has been eventful oh okay I have four kids yes um and so yes Todd Metcalfe party of 12 yeah Ali we need to have a one day we'll get to ever so we'll have a whole squad on here brother we need we're gonna be like we have on stadium CD yes bro and it will be a 12 minute episode yeah there's no way we could everybody quiet no not at all but um it's been an eventful week um a lot of doctors appointments a lot of science fair project who was this morning nice and that means we have a do we have a exploding volcano what's the vibe okay there was an explosion matter of fact it works with the show no maybe it came from us doing this episode but it was Bella did a science fair project called what's popping oh okay and uh she did an experiment basically taking baking soda and vinegar and saying what bags could hold the chemical reaction okay so that really just means me and Natalie were up on like y'all had a science fair project finishing her science fair project I'll never forget bro what time my mom we had a science fair project thing it was like I was gonna try to prove that a dog's mouth was cleaner than a human's mouth by having a human and a dog lick a petri dish I didn't do it at all and then the day before I was like trying to find mold in our house to put in the petri dish to like prove my theory I will say that Bella was killing her science fair we had to make all these baking soda packs and do all this stuff she I got her set up and she did it for her first hour and she ran through all of the stuff so she called me my back home dad I need you to make 40 more packs bro we had that thing out there we look like the cartel we was in white bag I said what in the world is happening but um she's doing great pastor Paul over at victory yeah he called us like your daughter's was so good so we just had a fun time that was very family mode yes but Bella's very studious and like

professionally it was very scientist vibes like lately very strong and Ava on the other hand is more like her father the other day I was trying to get her to do homework this may be too much information but we're living humble Open and transparent out here and I was like Ava do your homework. She's like she's eight And she's like, why do I need to do this? She said can't you just give me a job? I said oh that is something that I would say you just talk to yourself I did and I didn't even rap a banjo. I was like you Just do your homework. Do you hear what i'm saying? Because I don't have a rebuttal. I don't that was such a strong was strong And she's eight. So everybody just be praying for me Hilarious Oh, yeah, bro I don't know that is so What about you? I love what I was gonna say before that. I love your daughter so much I have a tradition I made up Is I every time I see him I put my hands on the shoulders I look him in the eyes and I say first of all, I love you If you ever need me call me Yeah, and i'm trying to position myself as the fun uncle You know that if you while and hopefully it's never come day comes but you need going down You need the uncle that you know will come get you from wherever and we gonna tell mom and dad Take you to go tell you we gonna go but Now it's at a point where when I go to see them They say we know we know call you if we ever need so you gotta have the right people around you That's kind of a little bit of what we're gonna talk about today. But before that, how's your week been going? It's been good man. Same thing family mode. Um, uh, yeah me and abby get to travel on a little trip to go See my family this weekend, which is fun And so i'm excited to see my little brother and my dad i'm preaching at my dad's church We just got off the phone. He was like we were talking sermon back and forth, which is such a fun like Experience to do so. I love that. So you're preaching at your dad's church at my dad's church, uh, which is super exciting

And it's just always fun. Like my mom anytime like the whole metcalf crew is together. It feels like a beautiful special thing So it's taking the kids to or no kids just just We did let me give interpretations, thank you lord Here we go. Just for all those who didn't know I we did start soccer season though. So I can't have that. Oh Oh, i'm, sorry, uh, keep going. We we told our kids soccer expired We told them they took it away from us They don't do soccer no more. That is hilarious No, we so we have our little team the bears and I officially made myself a coach this week this year But by nomination of one of the other coaches So but my job is to stand by the goalie and just scream like crazy and it's my favorite thing Oh, you're gonna you're gonna kill that. Yeah You're gonna do that. Well, so i'm just yelling at all the kids We we had uh this week my daughter So we are in the seven and eight year or the eight and nine year old category and luna's five But we finessed her on the team just to keep them together So okay luna's in the big kit, but she got up to the field and she looked at one of the coaches He's an amazing guy. He's more docile. The other coach is way more intense, but he was just like, yeah, let's do it And luna said what am I doing? Are you gonna tell me what i'm doing? Where am I going and literally I was like luna, baby, baby, baby Just listen and he's like, okay luna once she's like you have to tell me what i'm doing out here I don't know what i'm doing So anyways, we are in that but funny thing. Um Yesterday, this is this is a pop question. So pop question. Uh, We had a conversation. Yeah, and you made an amazing dramatic statement, which is I don't even know what you're about to say. So that's crazy I was there and I don't know what you're about to say you don't believe in breakfast anymore or or breakfast is We were kind of going back and forth on this, but I think the the the pop community would love to know How you feel about the category of breakfast, okay Well, um, I don't know what this has to do with the podcast. Absolutely. Nothing. Um, we are humble open and transparent So you brought it up. I'm gonna talk about it. This is for you. Um

So when I was unhealthy, okay, I believed in breakfast wholeheartedly Pancakes syrup Bacon, yes eggs and I still love all of that food But what ends up happening is breakfast was something that was made up as a marketing campaign Okay, they were trying to get people to eat more cereal Okay, and so what they did was form this whole section of like genre of food. It's a genre of food That's like oh, yeah in the morning. Don't eat steak. Don't eat chicken. Yeah, you need to eat breakfast Yeah, and so when I went down the rabbit hole of studying I was like thinking about it like when we were in our Like nature state and we had to hunt and kill food. Yeah, wasn't nobody. Yeah, like not eating Yes, the pig or the goat or whatever they made last night because it was the morning time because it wasn't breakfast No, it wasn't breakfast food. And so I just realized like for me the healthier version. I just get fat at breakfast Like just the truth of the matter breakfast is built on bread. What are you talking about cinnamon rolls? Yeah Pancakes, I mean I used to eat two cinnamon rolls the size of my fist And literally look up and be like, do you have anything else like bro? And so for me, I feel you I had to literally sound this is a lot sounder than I initially Yeah, like I just had to switch off in my head that breakfast is necessary There you go, because there was things in my life like no, I gotta eat breakfast, bro I'm mad because I didn't eat breakfast like what what does that mean? Stop it? I was having a sugar crash. Okay, so, uh now Now I just eat, yeah, whatever, whatever. Ground beef, got chicken, meal prep, 8 a.m. I feel you, okay, that's kind of wild, but you know, strong, strong argument. All right, well we've made it through our opening remarks. If you're still with us, welcome again to the Pop Podcast. This is progression over perfection. Maybe in episode seven we'll have a more polished intro, but I really think not. Today, it's an awesome, awesome topic because obviously the central theme of this podcast is progression over perfection,

and I think you cannot talk about progression without talking about the people in your life, aka your community, your people, your tribe, your core, and you know, the people that you live with, do life with, are such an indicator of your progression. I think of so many people that, you know, that my life through in different seasons that I would not have made progress without the right people in my life. I wouldn't have made the right progress without certain people coming in and certain people leaving my life, but I think it's easy to isolate. We live in a culture where because of social media, it makes us feel like we're super connected, but the reality is we are more disconnected than ever before. We have facades of like, oh yeah, that's my friend, but it's like, what does that really mean? Like, are they checking on you? When do you call them? Are you honest? And so today's topic is all about the people you walk with and the community we have, which is so near and dear to our heart because that's us, man. That's how we live. Let me say this, that's how we've chosen to live. Very good. And walking and living and honoring community is a choice.

Very good. And I found that a lot of people don't make the choice because it means we have to be close. And a lot of people don't like being close to people because when you're close to somebody, you can't lie to them. That's good. And it really is one of the things that I could never, let me be really transparent. I couldn't be close to people when I was lying to myself. So a lot of my relationships were hindered because I didn't like who I was. I lied to myself all the time. I wasn't consistent in my character, my energy. So I wouldn't let anybody close to me to actually see me. And because of that, I did not have relationships that were close or they weren't deep enough other than surface. And what it did was it hindered my growth. It hindered my ability to see all around me. I have a blind spot right now. There's things that I cannot see about myself right now. Every time before I come on a podcast, I'm like, is my hair? Because I can't see. But the truth is most people can't see a lot of areas in their own life because they don't have the right community, but community only comes with closeness. That's so good.

And I just feel like right now you said it that Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, or X, whatever it's called now, or all these social media platforms, I think it is one of the craziest things that it started with the concept of friend. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, will you be my Facebook friend? Oh, they're my friend. And then follower. Think about the desensitization of those words. That's so good. Think about how flippantly we use the word, oh yeah, we're friends on like, never had a conversation with these people, never talked to them, have watched from the outside of a window what goes into their life, made assumptions about them. Oh, because you put a heart on something, you're saying I love something, but we're exchanging actual things that have very significant value for superficial moments of checking in and checking out. And I- Well, the thing you hit on right there that's so important is it's transactional and I can control what you see. Yes. So it's just what you're saying.

It's like, I can show you the right picture, you can like that picture, but the second I don't like it, I can unfollow you. And you said something, I feel this, it's transactional, not relational. Yep. But it's using relational terms. Very good. So our mind doesn't understand fully the impact that it has on us because you'll see somebody on social media and then see them in real life that night and not say nothing. So true. Come on, let's be honest. You will see somebody pick, there go such and such. Oh, that outfit did look cute. Get ready with me. And you'll watch the whole, get ready with me. See them in person. Be in the comments like, girl, you know what I'm saying? And not say a word. That's crazy. But think about how that is training us. And I'm not saying that it's bad, it's something that we have to work against. Yeah, very good. That means we're going to, as believers,

watch this as followers, as people who are supposed to interact with people. Yeah. As people who part of our main mission is to go up to strangers and tell them about the love that we have experienced through Jesus. 100%. To create lasting impressions by the love that we have for each other. Yeah. If that's part of the mission of being like Christ, we're going to have to fight against the tide. trying to pull us into isolation with a placebo of relationship. That's so good, yeah. And I believe that for all of us, we need to evaluate, are our relationships real? Are they deeper than surface? And how is our community, watch this, shaping our future? There you go. And if you cannot figure out any of those things, maybe it's time for there to be a relational reset. That's so good. Some of the things that we can actually see and do could change the way our relationships form in the future. 100%. I love my grandmother, Granny Estelle. She always would say, if you hang with nine broke friends,

you're bound to be the 10th one. And it's just so true. You cannot underestimate the people that you're around and the impact that has. And again, I think social media is one of those things where it's a beautiful tool if you know how to place it. And most people don't. That's the truth. Let's be honest. You do not. But keep going. Yeah. Well, and I say that because the way me and you first met was a DM, I DMed you on Instagram. But then it just didn't stop there. It became real life. It became a real relationship with honesty and vulnerability. And I think there's something to the risk of relationship that I think is important for people to acknowledge. Let's talk about that. That's so good. Well, I mean, it is a risk to put yourself out there in a real way to say, hey, let's meet up for coffee. There's a chance you don't show up. There's a chance you don't call me back. There's all these risks, but the trade-off is invaluable. Come on. You cannot, no matter how much you DM somebody, no matter how many times you send memes back and forth,

that is not the same as when I was going through one of my toughest moments, and at one in the morning, you were in my room praying for me and covering me with my friends. That wasn't a DM on Instagram, like covering you in prayer, brother. It was you were there in that moment, and you just can't replace that. And can we be honest? A lot of times, let me just go ahead and hit this right now. Let me pop somebody's bubble right now. Stop lying and saying you're praying for people when you're not. That's so good. Like, don't go to hell over this. Like, I'm just, I mean, I just think about people who be like, bro, I'm praying for you. Man, I was just thinking about you. Shut up. You weren't. That's not true. That's not true. And half the time, there was a season in my life where I would say that because it felt like a good way to act like I cared, like it was a transitional statement, and God convicted me. He said, stop lying to these people. That's so good. It's creating separation between me and you and you and them.

Wow. And I think about like the little places that we like say these things and try to do these things, and I think God doesn't like it so much is because he values relationships so much. And if you say you're gonna pray for somebody or if you say you're gonna show up for somebody, the Bible says it like this. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. And so many of us in culture have so many gray areas, and I think it's hindering some of the community that God wants us to build, to be strong, to stand firm. And I agree wholeheartedly. I think I'm getting passionate about this because relationship is a risk, but it's a risk that it's worth taking. Absolutely. I have had so many relationships that I thought were going to be seasonal turn into not just seasons, but decades. And I've also had a relationship that I thought were gonna be lifetime that had a limit. Yep, that's so real. And you never know, but you still have to take that relational risk. And so there may be somebody watching right now as we are starting this conversation, because we ain't even really hit none of the things we wanted to talk about, but I just feel inclined to tell somebody

like take the relational risk. If you have faith to trust God with your whole life, you should probably trust him to bring the right people into your life and also remove the wrong people from your life. And this is a season where I believe that God is really wanting to transform people's relationship circles, but that means you're gonna have to be discerning, and this is one of the things I found, Charles, that God does not always give you relationships that are the same flavor that you like. Come on, man, that's so important. That's so important. And it's, I think, something that's so, I wanna hit this, because I think there's some people watching, regardless of maybe your religious background, you need to know there's a internal design in every single one of us. Talk about it. The Bible tells us that we're made in the image of God. God, the sequential thought is this, the greatest love you can have is not self-love, but shared love. If you ask anybody, what's the greatest type of love? It's a love that'll sacrifice for somebody else, not one that serves yourself. So if God is love, he has to be able to have the greatest version of love,

which is shared love. So that's why the picture of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, is the greatest picture, because it's shared love. If we are made in that image, every single one of us is designed to love. live in a space where we have shared love. So this idea of independence, and I'm by myself, and it's me and God, and I don't need nobody, it's just not true to your DNA. God made you to need people. We say this all the time, but the first not good in the Bible is it is not good for man to be alone. And I just wanna encourage somebody, your life will always feel incomplete until you take the risk of a relationship. I'm gonna say, your life, you'll always be searching for something. You'll always feel like something's missing. You will limit yourself in the dreams God has given you until you have other people. And so we can't emphasize it enough, but relationships don't come without risk. It doesn't come without hard conversation. And it's something that has to be built. I think it's easy, even me and you, like we've been friends for now almost 10 years. That's crazy. Which is wild.

Very wild. That's a lot of life. It feels like yesterday. It really does. When we look at our kids, that's how we know that we've been rocking for a minute. For real. I just think it's easy to people see, so many people comment in a beautiful way. They're like, man, that's so dope. Like you and PM and y'all are really friends. And I can tell, like there's a genuineness there. And it's easy to observe that or people you like or famous people you see that are friends, but none of those things come without work. There's no relationship you have that's not gonna take work. And I think that's the honest truth thing we gotta say for people is if you're looking for the right relationships, you gotta be willing to do the right work. Yes, sir. I think two things I wanna say there, we are all hardwired for relationship. It's in our hard wiring. Very good. Also relationships are hard work. I think those two statements together then give you a proper view of what relationship is supposed to be. It is supposed to be my desire.

And then I gotta design it. That's very good. Like I gotta do both of those things. And a lot of people just like, no, we just click. Like, oh, we just dah, dah, dah, dah. And it's like relationships that last don't just click. They don't, no. Like you gotta put the mugs together. Yes, you have to click them yourself. You have to click them yourself. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like relationships that are meaningful, relationships that are Christ-centered, relationships that actually are there when you need them. And I think all relationships, let me be honest, I think all relationships serve different needs. Very good. Like I don't think all relationships are supposed to be forever. Because that can be a misplaced expectation that like everybody's supposed to be everything to you. And it's just not true. And nobody wants that pressure. No. That's the thing too, to be giving people. Nobody wanna text that many people. Don't nobody wanna answer that many phone calls. No, that's one thing I can't do. You be in a fridge and you don't hang out twice. It's like, man, I just really wanna, it's like, oh.

What happened to us? Hold on, what happened to us? No, what did you do? I'm married, first off. First off, I'm married. That's the real thing. So what happened to us, the only person that can ask me that is Natalie. Like, but I just think that, I think that honestly, when you build a relationship, I think it first starts with trust. Very good. How important has trust been in relationship, our relationship, in your relationship with Abby, in your relationship with people that you confide in? How important has trust been? Man, it's so good. And I think there's two things that I think of. Is one, you have to acknowledge your foundation of relational trust. Meaning how you grew up, how your family interacted. One thing that was so different in me and Abby's upbringing is I grew up in a home where it was me, Chandler, Michael, and Michelle. And that was really it. It was the Metcalfs. Like, that was our crew. And we had different friends at the time. Your mama's name is Michelle? Yeah.

Your daddy's name is Michael and your mama's name is Michelle? Yes, absolutely. What you? I did not know. I'm finding that out today. I always, Mama Metcalf, but I didn't know. You got two Michael Michelle. Yeah. Michael Lamont Metcalf and Michelle Lee Metcalf. Your daddy, black. Oh yeah, absolutely, Lamont. But Michael, Michelle. Sorry for interrupting you. That's the first time. That's like somebody's dad being named Bill and his mom being named Billy. I didn't know that was. Michael, Michelle, Charles, and Chandler. You really locked in. Y'all are really, wow. Okay, keep going, brother. My bad. That is hilarious. My bubble's popped. That's the first time in 39 years. That's the first time I heard that. Go ahead. That is so hilarious. But I'm saying that to say,

we grew up in just a like, yo, we're good. It's just us. It's fine. Abby grew up, everything's hosted at our house. Every random person has an event. So I'm saying that to say, when you come to relational trust, you have to acknowledge, oh, some people are wired to trust easily. Some people are wired not to trust easily. Some people are wired to where I moved a lot. So I went to a bunch of different, because we moved, I went to different schools. I went to different places. So my ability to immediately trust was like, I'm a little leery to that. So I'm saying that to say, you have to first acknowledge, okay, what is my history? Have I had friends that have hurt me? Have I had friendships that went well? But then from there, the thing we've said about relationship is trust is still a choice. It's still a decision that even if you haven't proven to me even at some point I'm gonna have to say I trust you and that's scary and that's vulnerable But what are you leaving on the table if you don't ever take that step like I think of our friendship like the hilarious story We told that in a previous episode about Eden like I had been to TC once Yeah, when I shut down the church and was like here we're here But at some point we never standing here without the step of trust you the step of trust of our second time hanging out

Like would you ever want to like team up like Golden State where you're gonna have to tell that whole story at some matters Well, let's tell it now. Let's go ahead do it Go ahead because the truth of the matter is I know people are wondering like how do you build trust? Yeah, trust is built with watch this vulnerability. So Me and Charles go out to have yeah breakfast back when we don't believe it back when we both were firm believers in breakfast and We sit there and I feel like on my way there God was literally impressed me I've only seen this do one time No, he's planning a church. Yeah, like know that my little brother wants to go to the church and I'm literally sitting there and I'm like All right, God, what do you want me go meet with him about his and how he was like ask him Does he wanna join forces with you? God I'm not whack Literally, that's the first real thing first real thing is like I'm not why I don't need him like like I don't want to look Yes, absolutely but and it was like the first thing God was like ask him if he wants to partner up and right at that time that's when Katie Steph and Laid right everybody was playing on the same theme and they had a super team and they had won a championship Another one and he's like and say like the Golden State Warriors I was like this sucks like cuz I am NOT whack, you know, you're in the car Like I'm not whack like a whack person would say that a person that's thirsty would say that like I don't want to say that But the one thing about me is no matter how dumb I look Yeah, I'm gonna be obedient to what I feel like God's gonna say and what did I do sitting it where we had Bramble? Yes, Bramble. Yeah, Bramble and I'm sitting in on he's sitting across from me and I'm like, hey, bro Like man, it's so good to meet you. Like I was so whack to say but I did. Yeah Yeah, 100% and Charles's answer was like, yeah, no Would I tell you I was I was it was the God It was your fault. Like it was immediate to it was just like it was like immediate no thought about it Like no, like well, let me pray. Yeah. Wow. That's like I don't think I don't think so Well, these eggs are good Like I think that's why I stopped eating breakfast

That was the day. That was the day. Um, yeah, but the thing that I always tell people about that story is The wind wasn't what Charles said. It was my obedience 100% like a lot of people don't understand. There was no turn in that conversation Yeah that led to us being in relationship in a deeper way ministry wise. Yeah, it was just like, okay cool God I did what you said and So let's talk about your relationship. Let's talk about planting the church and we had a great breakfast after that very Vulnerable moment. Yeah, and I think that was one of the first things that ever happened in our relationship Yeah Because God wanted to see what I obey him and be vulnerable because that was gonna open up the door For the vulnerability that we were going to experience together 100% like people don't understand that months later Yeah months later after we had this breakfast I'm at a conference in Alabama, and I feel like I'm coming off a sabbatical and I still need something I find out about this little cohort they're doing with pastors and I sign up for it in Dallas, Texas and When I signed up it was like the Holy Spirit said call Charles. I mean, this is maybe our third time talking Like call Charles and ask him if he wants to go he's starting a church and I want you to personally pay for all of it Yeah, the church didn't have no money. Yeah. Yeah, nobody was balling Yeah, like I had to ask my wife like is it okay if I use this? $250 like it was it was that yeah, and she was like go ahead just follow God shout out to my wife I love you Natalie and um, I obey God and me and you went to Dallas together and It was in that moment We told it a little bit in a previous episode That God was about to take you through a transformation and you were gonna have to be vulnerable with me Yeah, I was there when he raised the knife Hmm to be able to say God if you want me to sacrifice this thing I will yeah, and there was no ram in the bush none nowhere to be she said killer. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation like when you like Like Anything and not guys like no, yeah, this gotta die and I remember you shutting down Eden, you know, I remember us driving back into Tulsa. Mm-hmm, and I dropped you off at an Eden gathering. Yep Do you remember that? I forgot it was a Sunday night or Saturday some y'all was doing growth track and everything and I was like

Well brother like I'm praying go you go with God. I was like that brother He's about to have a hard time, cause that's gonna be difficult. He literally just heard 18 hours ago He's supposed to kill this thing and he got a ride right back into town and leave the troops I was like, well, all right, cuz again at that moment We just had vulnerable moments together. Yeah, and I was just committed to cover you Yeah, as a brother as a friend and then I think it was that was a Sunday Yeah, and then I think on that Wednesday, yeah, you was like, hey, bro, where are you at? I was at the library I was at the I used to go study at the public library because it was a beautiful place for me to see Humanity, yeah So I would go downtown and I would just remember who I'm preaching to so good and I would study in this little glass room And I was like, I'm down here studying and you came up there and that was the day That you were vulnerable and said I'm gonna close this down and God told me to come serve and protect you I had nothing to give you. No. Yeah, I didn't have a title. I didn't have a job for you. We were not Transformation. Oh, yeah, we like it was like you were vulnerable and So became sub to the mission. Yeah, and honestly, I didn't even know if I could lead you. Mmm Like I didn't know at that time if I could be a pastor Cuz that's the thing at this point you've been a pastor for a year I have no idea what's going on I honestly am trying to fit into whatever this mold is I'm taking over a church for a man who has been leading for 16 years Yeah, I'm I'm trying to turn this into a multi-ethnic church in the hood Yeah, and the only white people there is the former pastor. Yes, and they're in and Aaron and like I'm trying Yeah, like and while somebody's coming to become sub to the mission But I I tell all that to say that our relationship started Because of vulnerability and so good and when there was vulnerability there was trust and when there's trust You can try things. Yeah, and that's what people don't understand. It's like I don't have to get it right if I trust you Yeah, that's so good That's why relationships can value progression over perfection because I trust you like even if you did something wrong

I know that wasn't your intent. Yeah, we can have a conversation about like when you got real friends they'll be like, you know such and such this thing you like ah Come on, I don't know about that. Yeah, even trust them. You give them the benefit of the doubt. That's so good Yeah, and I think that um if I'm to look back on how God established this relationship and any relationship that has been Powerful in my life. Yeah, it has been started with vulnerability. That's so good. Well this this kind of takes us to the next idea I want to talk about which is you use some of these words of submission and and we're talking about this idea of People in your life and having the right community and they'll being so key to your progression There's this idea that I heard somebody say one time which is you always need three different types of people in your life You need somebody that's a little bit in front of you You need somebody that's standing right beside you it needs somebody that you're mentoring That's a little bit behind you and it's the dynamic of these three things that keep us progressing It is I have in the scripture I remember there's old preachers to say he's like everybody needs a Paul a Barnabas and a Timothy and the idea is Paul was governing and leading all these people Barnabas was the guy before Silas. Yeah that was next to him and then Timothy is who he's mentoring you need Another way is a mentor an associate and an apprentice and I think when I look at even that story You just told you vulnerably sharing like man. I didn't know if I could do this I know for me some of the best things have come out of me when someone needed it to come out of me Yes, sir And it when there were things in me that didn't come out until I had a wife and kids depending 100% that raised and some People you have nobody that that's depending on you in a good way. Yeah, and I think that's something there's a healthy responsibility in that and you also need somebody that you're submitted to and that word I think I want you because I think you do this so well of honoring Language that has value. Yeah, but removing all the religion and wonky churchness out of here because I think that word when you hear Submission, it's all people think control and domineering and all these things and the one thing I say always about you being my leader friend and ultimately the pastor I'm submitted to is My life I said this to one person they were asking me about it And I said my life has become as big as pastor Michael has created room for and I live a really big life well

And that's the that's the the learning is you need people in your life that you're submitted to that can check you and say hey Bro, we're not doing that and then you also need people that can come to you and say and I think that's so on display And I think if I look at our friendship and our friends friendships, that's something all of us have in different ways We all have the dynamic where there's somebody you lead, there's someone who's walking with you, and there's somebody that's helping you. Help people kind of navigate that world. Well, if you have a tainted view of submission, this is gonna be hard, but it is a word that God uses in the Bible all the time. All the time. And so I had to grapple with it at first because it was like, I mean, my natural is to be in control. And if my natural is to be in control, and then God says, hey, I need you to submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Now I'm gonna get a little preachy for a second because I'm a pastor. But the truth of the matter is a lot of people want Jesus as Savior. They don't want him as Lord. Because Savior is a rescuer. Like, oh, I saved you. And it's like, thanks, I appreciate you. But Lord means that you're submitted under them. And a lot of people do not want a Lord. They want somebody to come help them when they need it, but they don't want somebody to tell them,

hey, you can't do that. We don't do that. Hey, we do do this. Like, I think about people, the easy way to describe it is if you've ever had an apartment, you don't own that. It's, you usually have a landlord. There you go. And there's an exchange for that. They're gonna tell you what color you could paint the walls or if you could paint the walls, they're gonna tell you all this other stuff. But in exchange, if anything breaks in that house, the Lord of the house comes and fixes it. Come on now. And what ends up happening is that means there's a mutual submission. That's so good. And that's the thing that God displays for us all the time through Jesus. He was submitted all the way to the cross. Come on. Yeah. He said, not my will, but yours be done. That's submission. Like, I don't wanna do this, but because I'm sub to the mission, I will do this. And that's why I see if the strongest, most amazing leader in the world can be submitted,

then I can be submitted. And so when the language gets perverted, especially like wives submit to your husband, you gotta keep reading. It's a mutual submission. Come on. Because the Bible tells us husbands, you're supposed to love your wife and follow after Christ, being willing to die for her. Come on. That's being submitted to death. Yes. I mean, let's be honest right now. So if she's, any woman that has the audacity to be submitted to a man, that man has to be submitted to God enough to die. Come on. So that's what we're talking about submission. 100%. Do you understand what I'm saying? And all it means is being coming sub to the mission. That's great. What's the mission? To raise this family to love God. So I'm not gonna let my cultural, my family, my anything that has been a idea before this, I'm not going to let it define over what God says about it. I gotta become sub to the mission. Somebody calling me right now. That may be my wife.

That's the only reason I'm looking right here. It's my wife. Go ahead, brother. You go ahead. I'm submit. Y'all see, it's my wife right here. And I have to pick up the phone. You have to pick up the phone. Hello. What choice do you have? Hello. Call my wife back real quick. She hung up on me. Somebody call my wife. Okay. All right. God bless America. Jay, call my wife. That is amazing. Thanks, Jay. Thank you, Jay. But see, even that. Yep. Yep. I've done this at award shows. You have. I've done it at, I've done it everywhere. Yeah, 100%. Because the truth of the matter is this podcast is fine. Yep.

This wife is the only one I'm getting. I'm calling her back. Hello? Okay, Jay's gonna call you. Tell me what you need. I love you so much. I'm doing a podcast. Okay, God bless you. Like, that's important. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because there's nothing more important than what I'm trying to build long-term. Yeah. And that means I have to sacrifice other things to be able to see God's plan come. That's so good. To fruition in my life and anybody else's life. So, submission is not scary. It honestly is protection. And this is what people gotta understand. You don't gotta worry about the pipes busting at your apartment when you have a landlord or somebody you're submitted to. So good. I don't have to worry about certain things in my life because of the God I'm submitted to and then the natural men that God has placed in my life to be submitted to. That's so good.

I think of Tim Ross. Yeah. Like, I could spend, we gotta have Tim on the podcast. Oh, have to. What are we talking about? Tim, come to the pop podcast. But, okay, let's go back. Our relationship was started in vulnerability. And I remember after me and Tim having relationship for a long time, hold on, wait a minute. Literally, we were in Dallas when you had that whole revelation about, we were at Neiman Marcus and I was crying on my shoulder. That was fun. And what ended up happening, I ended up calling Tim. And I was like, hey man, I got this dude. That was your first time ever meeting him? Ever, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I got this dude. And think about the vulnerability because I brought you to his house. Like, our relationship, being vulnerable, trust. Opened up a door for you. Yeah to be able to be vulnerable and we us three set at Tim Ross's dining room table Yeah, and he didn't have no shoes on But he said at his dining room table and he walked you through a hundred percent the transition and I was vulnerable enough To not even have the answers for the moment that you were in but I had the relational connection. That's it Yeah, and because we were in relationship you had everything you needed that's so good Think about how many things and how many people are the connection to the thing you actually need? But if you're not in relationship with them and there's not trust and vulnerability, you can't even

Access what you need. So well, it's the idea and this is something I love about you And I think I've learned is you are so relationally generous And there's a lot of people that once they get their crew and their connections and they found their path forward it is Okay, I got this. I can't even look I'm a gatekeep I got and I think The scripture says and it's so much more than finances as the world of the generous gets larger or you took it out of my Head. I was just waiting to see where you landed the plane because I was like, yeah, that's a small life Yes, bro, but the world of the stingy gets smaller and smaller. Yeah, so if I'm relationally generous, I mean, you know this Yeah, their relationships that we have bro that are how in the world the very wild like crazy What in the world like actually happening what is happening I had a percent but it's because we are not um Stingy with what God has given us. We're looking how to connect I tell people all the time that one of the ways that you are wealthiest is Relationally and one of the ways that you can be the most generous is by giving people the connection that they couldn't pay for Mmm, do you know how much an introduction cost Wow? Yeah, do you know how much an introduction is valued at and it's so good it depends on who introduces you Yeah, a certain person introducing you to the certain person changes the value of y'all's relationship connection immediately a hundred percent Well, bro, I'll never we got to tell the real-life story of it. So I preach at our conference. I come off the stage I'm sitting in the back and I'm just like well what just happened? I preached a sermon God chose me you walk back you say that's your first book and I was like, okay I'm still trying to calibrate my life after screaming into the microphone boy preached the house that was that v3? Yeah v3 He preached the house down in the Holy Spirit told me yeah, I go tell him prophetically. Yeah, what no weird But it was a prophetic. Yeah, that's your first book. God chose me. Yeah, so I do that And then a little bit further along you say hey You know the timings got to be right for this But I want you to start working on it like Because when it's when it's right you got to have something like we're not just gonna float that out So I do I go back and I start and I wrote three or four chapters of just a rough draft Can we just stop right here? Mmm, you were submitted. That's good. Yeah, I just want I want it I want everybody to calibrate. I wasn't forcing him to do. Yeah, but I was like, hey, bro

Go work on this book. Yeah, and he was like bet and went away. Yeah Took a trip and got you a little I forgot what you had. It was something a little is like going crazy on that thing I did find a weird old typewriter thing. It was dope, but it's just my vibe. But anyways, I'll never forget I show it I sent it to you in a PDF and it was like our next meeting like the next day or day after and you looked at It and you were like, all right one second and you literally just pulled out your phone I was like, what does he do it and you just hit FaceTime and I don't you called the the hilarious thing is This shows your relational equity this person over all the books everywhere was out on a boat on vacation Salmon and In Montana and answer the phone like hey, how you doing? And you immediately were like, this is Charles I've got the next book. This is the and immediately that introduction it changed my life changed And I just think I mean you have no idea How much blessing you are holding on to come on by the relationships? God has gifted you with to then be a gift to other people Wow And I just I believe there's someone watching right now that you have no idea That may be the reason God connected you in that person is not just for y'all but it's for who you know and who they know and what God could do through that and I think It's just it's just such a beautiful thing in the right relationships when you find those it doesn't shrink you it Enlarges your life. That's good the way it wrote down a shout-out to Steven greatest producer ever, but he said He said the right voices don't shrink you they sharpen you and that's what that's what our friendship is, man There's people watching right now that they need to be sharpened they need to make progress and it's not gonna come through isolation It's gonna come through building relationships that take time that you're gonna experience heartbreak in but it's a worthy endeavor Well more than anything if anybody could have lived without relationship on this earth, it would have been Jesus. Yeah. Yet we see him in community. And people's like, well, yeah, he needed disciples and he didn't need disciples. Come on. Let's be honest. Let's be very clear. Like he didn't need disciples. Yeah. He was trying to give us a model. Yeah. Like, and I just think about there was the 12, there was the 70, there was the 500. Yeah. But then there was the three. And I always tell everybody like, well, how many friends am I supposed to have? And how many? I mean, at least

work to three. Yeah. Like, let that be a prayer request. Let that be a goal. Let that be part of your vision. I want three solid friends. Like I want three people who aren't just going to hang around me, but they can challenge me. Yeah. I need three fins that can pray for me. I need three friends that can correct me when I'm tripping. Yeah. Or that I'll be honest enough to show me the truth of the matter is most people you say are your friends. Don't even know you. That's the truth. Let me, let me be very clear. They don't know the habits you have. They don't know the vices you go to. They don't know how you cope with the loss. They don't know. And until you show somebody who you are, it really is just an act. And maybe the first step to having real relationship is honestly being real with yourself. Why don't I have these relationships? What am I trying to keep from me? What brokenness or hurt and pain do I still need healed in real life? That's good. And we just did a sermon series a while back called relationship goals, IRL or in real life. Yeah. And, um, people thought it was just going to be about like romantic relationships, but it honestly was like therapy, a hundred percent theology and like, uh, transformation transformation session. Yeah. But some of the real problems with our relationships is the foundations are wrong. And so we put wrong expectations on people to see us and soothe us and, and, and secure us and make us feel safe when the only person that can be our soulmate is God. Yeah. I did a message called, uh, how to find my soulmate, how I found my soul, how I found my soulmate. And, um, I S I made a shocking statement. I said, Natalie's not my soulmate. And I was like, after wearing her on your shirt and all that other stuff. And I was like, she's my soul match. Yeah. The only person that can meet the needs of my soul is the lover of my soul. The one who created my soul, the one who knows my mind, will and emotions. Even if I say nothing out loud. So good. And I need God to see me and he sees me. I need God to secure me. He said, I need God to make me feel safe. Those who go into the, the presence of God, they'll be safe under the shadows of his wing. I need God to be secure. He said, there is nothing in this world could separate us, separate you from my love, not death, nor height, not demons, not like he's trying to let you know, like you can try everywhere else relationally, but you're only going to get that from me. Well, when you get that right in your relationship, then it's easy to have an expectation of somebody out that can sharpen against. Cause I don't need you to complete me. I need you to be compatible with me. Very good. Very good. And that's the difference in a godly relationship that I believe that you need on every level. Yeah. You do need

it romantically, but you do need it as a mentor. You need it as the apprentice, you need it as somebody following you. And until people start striving for that. And that's why I go back to the social media thing or the LinkedIn or the business relationships. We've made everything so transactional that when we actually need somebody to be there, we don't have people. And maybe you're watching this and you're like, man, I want that. And I'm telling you it's available. Like you can actually have healthy, life-giving, robust, accountable, amazing relationships, but you have to first decide, then desire, then develop. And if you do those three things, I'm telling you within a year, I'll say, but I'm saying it can happen in months. It gets to happen in weeks, but it just depends if you want that for real. And it has been the greatest gift of my life to have relationships. I mean, I'm just thinking about so many moments that would have sucked even worse. Not that they didn't suck, but they would have sucked worse if I didn't have healthy relationships in my life. Not perfect, but progressing. And that's what you have to understand when it comes to relationships. Well, I think it's so encouraging and we're going to wrap it up here, but I just think the hope anchor for people today is it's possible. Like regardless of if you've been hurt, regardless if you feel like you failed, regardless if you feel left out, maybe you feel like you can't find the right people, having healthy, flourishing, big, beautiful, trust, vulnerable relationships, it is possible. Start today. When you start to do those three things, when you decide, when you start to develop, when you take the risk of being vulnerable, when you do those things, you can find yourself in a place where you find all the relationships, and here's the thing you need to know as we get out of here, is that your progress will be accelerated when you get around the right people. Say it again. I'm gonna say it again.

Your progress will be accelerated when you get around the right people. I think they just heard it. Say it one more time. Your progress. I'm preaching now. Your progress will be accelerated when you get around the right people. I know it's true about my life. It's true about our friendship, and I'm just believing that for people, they're gonna find the right people. You're gonna become the right person. It's what the Bible says. I'm not gonna preach it, but it says to find a friend, you must first be someone who is friendly. So be the person you're looking for. You're looking for someone to encourage your dreams, encourage someone else's dreams. You're looking for someone to give you. Why do people always assume the worst? Why don't they give me the benefit of the doubt? You be the person. Give that, and you'll be surprised on what you find. Charles, I think we're gonna have to do a part two, because I really need people to understand friends for the fight. Yes. Because there's different fights that happen in friendship.

There's when you're fighting for the person. What do you do when you're fighting for the person's future and they don't see it? Very good. There's other moments when there may be something that we disagree about. Yeah, you're fighting with the friends. Yeah, come on, we fight. I'm not fighting for you, but I will punch you. But think about it. That's real, man. There have been things that we've disagreed on, and how do we fight as friends, but not lose the relationship? Very good, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then there's other times that you actually have to fight back-to-back an enemy. Yep, there you go. Think about the things that we've been through, where it's like, I'll take this side, you take that side, and we back-to-back, and we're fighting for our families, and fighting for our minds, and fighting for our peace, and fighting for our sanity, and I think a lot of people don't understand that the Bible says, I won't get into the next episode, but I think the Bible tells us very clearly, like, it's two are better than one. Yep, absolutely. Because there is a good return on what we have together.

He said, how are we gonna fight enemies we can't see? And it's not more than just me. And so I just think there's so many things that our life, our relationship, and our learnings would allow somebody to at least see, and this is the thing I'm gonna say on this podcast, specifically to pastors and ministry leaders. You're playing yourself if you don't have authentic relationships. There is no way that you can get up and tell people to be honest with God, and you're not honest with somebody. It is probably one of the most disintegrated things you can do. Instead of being whole, we are acting like we're whole, but we're going home alone. Wow, yeah. Somebody call Macaulay Culkin. Like, think about it. Most pastors, ministers, worship leaders, musicians, they go home alone. Even with people around, they go home alone. Nobody understands, nobody gets it. And what I'm telling you is that's a lie the enemy wants you to believe. I believed it for years, that no, God wants me to be, I mean, the man of God, I gotta. That is a broken system that Jesus dispels in the word. But if we don't actually, I mean, in his most vulnerable moment,

he's literally begging God in the garden of Gethsemane, please let this cut pass for me, and he takes three people with him. They were sorry, because they couldn't sleep, they fell asleep. You understand what I'm saying? But he goes and still needs them. Something in him was like, y'all, please stay up with me. I just need somebody to be with me in this moment. And they weren't there. And this is what I'm saying is like, it can't be everybody. But if you're a ministry leader, a pastor, a youth pastor, somebody who has given their life for others, I need you to know that it is very important for you to get around some good people who actually see you, know you, and watch this, that you're not just honest with, you're transparent with. See, there's a difference between honesty and transparency. Me and Charles learned this a long time ago. Honesty is you telling me the truth if I ask you. Transparency is bringing me the truth that I wouldn't know unless you told me. So good. And there are too many people that are honest that aren't transparent. I don't know to ask you, did you look at porn last night? Because every time we talk, it's about golf, or it's about pickleball, or it's about the kids. Transparent is, hey man, before we talk about that,

I need to tell you what happened last night. That type of relationship will transform your life. And I'm telling you, without it, what the enemy does is push you further and further into isolation. And the only way a predator gets a prey is try to separate them from the pack And I just feel like there's too many people that are watching this right now That even as tears are flowing down some of your faces and some of your hearts are beating fast This is a direct message from God to you. It's time to get in front of somebody and say here's where I'm at This is what I'm struggling with. This is where I'm falling short. This is my issue You gotta do that because without that you are prey to the enemy and today I just want you to not die in a place where God has called you to live Relationally God wants you to live. He wants you to win. He wants you to thrive He wants you to feel protected and celebrated and covered and and and literally he wants you to give that away but you can never do that if you don't become humble open and transparent and Value the progression. Yeah, it's gonna suck somebody's idea might change about you Yeah, it's a relational risk, but I'm telling you when you break that Bubble you pop that bubble of perfection You will fall and stumble into progression and I would rather fall forward Then fail alone. I must say it one more time. I would rather you fall forward progress than fail alone Today I just I just really wanted somebody to hear me. You may be a CEO You may be making so much money that you feel isolated. They don't have these problems They don't have this but they still have blood running through their veins And there's somebody that maybe can't match you zero for zero, but they can see your soul It's time to connect and align and become compatible with the relationships that God has for you Because it's through relationships that you're gonna become the person that you are supposed to be last thing that I'm gonna say on this and Charles you gonna have to take it over because I feel like Minister and I feel like an altar call right now on this pop podcast What I'm telling you is James tells us the only way that we get healed is not through a pastor or a prophet He said pray one for another

Get in relationship with somebody this can be your boy at the basketball court. This can be your girlfriend This can be your cousin. He says that's where healing comes for when you confess your sins one to another That's not confessing it to my pastor that's not confessing it to the Prophet the man of God the woman of God It says confess your sins one to another and then doesn't give any qualifications Yeah, that means it really needs to just be somebody you trust that you can be vulnerable with confess your sins one to another pray for each other and you will be Healed and a lot of people would value being heard over being healed And that's why we go to social media and just say our feelings But nobody got healed after we all heard you We all heard your opinion. We all saw your video We all but you're still wrestling in your soul because you're not healed. Maybe you should log off and Look at somebody in their face and say this is what I'm wrestling with. This is what I'm going through This is the heartbreak. I'm experiencing. This is where I feel isolated and I'm telling you let prayer Come through Healing will be for you And that is a beautiful place to close out this episode We want to say thank y'all so much for watching and we're believing today. You're gonna find the right relationships So right people yes, and this is the pop Podcast progression over perfection. We gotta have we gotta get like some sound. Yeah, we need we're gonna get sound effects Yeah, come on and and maybe when we get to eight episodes, we're gonna pop some confetti Celebrate matter of fact, we need help. Okay, so we need help. We we're this is a progression over perfection podcast We intentionally did not plan everything me and Charles are actually very Intentional on creative ideas and thought of that and we say we want this to be authentic. So we're gonna let it flow We have an amazing producer. He put some outlines out for us He makes sure everything's ready, but we want to figure this out real time a lot So some of the stuff we do in a day, we're not gonna do tomorrow And some of the stuff we do in this season We got not gonna do next season, but we want to see what the progression of this looks like number one What are some things you want to hear about? Like what do you want to hear us talk about? I need you to drop it in the comments

I want you to let us know and me and Charles are going to try to make this as Authentic and break the fourth wall. We're not preaching to you. We're always gonna share the word because it's in us But we're not preaching to you. We want to have conversation with each other. We want you to see the real Life of people who handle a lot of leadership, but Actually value being authentic. And so let us know what you want to know about and we need you to Like subscribe and share I think we have two followers at this moment right now and Again, that's intentional. We like didn't want to start it on platforms where we already had people we I wanted to do this organically, and whether we grow to 10, 10,000, 10 million, what we're going to show people is that it's possible to obey God no matter the outcome. This is not for anything we need to do. This is because we felt like it's what we are supposed to do and we want to share this process and this journey with you because progression is the whole point. I don't care what you're going through. If you can get further than you are today, you have just made a step towards transformation. We love you, we believe you, and until episode uno, dos, tres, cuatro. I had to count them up. Hey, come on, you had to lock it in. Lock it in. G is learning Spanish, so. Okay, gotcha. Here we go, cuatro. Man, go out and have an amazing day. I was about to say go out and live a transformative life. That's the only way I know how to do it.

Transform, go out and keep it poppin'. Keep it poppin' for God.