Perfection Is Expensive, Progression Is Free | POP Podcast Ep. 1

Episode one season one of the progression over perfection podcast where we want your life to pop They're POP. This is episode one. This one's gonna pop. It's gonna pop. It's gonna pop I promise you this podcast is a place where progression is the point. Yes. We're trying to move forward We're not trying to be perfect, but we're trying to make progress. There is one person that is perfect Yeah, his name is Jesus the picture of perfect we had are because people never showed us their progress dog. Talk to me Don't show Real quick. Yeah, are we just gonna be Mike and Charles on this podcast? Absolutely That's the only way I know how to do it to this day still to this to this day Like you don't do baby the thing you do, you know, I'm saying my dad he hit a grip this man be grilling Did y'all grow up? No way brother. We grew up going to White Castle like we What's an area your wife would say you need to progress in Well Hello friend family everybody you are here. Welcome to the first episode of the pop Podcast let's go We made it man aggression over perfection Yes, and we are here on episode one of something. We have been dreaming up talking about Believing for waiting for the right moment for almost three years three years for real and this is the moment My name is Michael. Yes My name is Charles and we are going to be the host of the progression over perfection Podcast and this one's gonna pop. It's gonna pop. It's gonna pop. I promise you. Hey, listen, we're glad you're here We believe you're here for a reason. Yeah, this is on accident Nothing is by happenstance and we're firm believers in that our life is proof of that Yeah, but really this podcast is a place where progression is the point. Yes. It's the goal. That's why we're here We're trying to move forward. We're not trying to be perfect But we're trying to make progress and that's so hard for us in this culture right now and Charles as I'm thinking about all of the transitions that I've made in leadership as a husband as a father as a man as a person as a Personality all of these different things. Yeah, there's this huge weight of a progression especially with Instagram and People's ideas of you and their opinions of you and all of these different things and I think one thing that has allowed us to not Just last but thrive

Over the last decade is that we adopted this mantra very early that we would progress no matter if there was perfection, yep, and the thought that comes to my mind is Perfection is expensive but progression is free. So good. Like if you could actually yeah make the The thought be paramount in your head that like to move forward. Yeah, all I have to do is try something That's so good. Like and I can fail at it a hundred percent. Yeah, and I'm probably gonna fail That's a part of it But if I just start if I just do what's in my realm of possibility to do that's where another mantra came from For us is all you have. Yeah, it's all you need Come on Because that that literally fuels as I'm thinking about it the idea that progression is way more valuable to God way more Valuable to your family way more valuable to your purpose then perfection And we're here to help people through our real-life stories through the stuff that we're leading through Yeah through the things that people may not know we deal with. Yeah, I mean right now between both of us It's Todd Metcalfe party at 12 party of 12. No, we can't even go. No, we can't call and get a reservation Anyway, especially in toast. No, not at all because we need a special room, but I think about yeah How long so many layers knowing each other and how many layers and how many? Moments of responsibility God has given us. Yeah, and how Perfection would have killed us. Absolutely But the idea of God being excited about our progression has literally allowed us to do things We never thought we would be so true. Yeah, and so today I'm excited that this is episode one So one you are here at the inaugural inaugural. I don't know where that Real good the inaugural. Yes Genesis Genesis that feels good of something that I really believe is gonna help leaders. Yeah families Business owners people who are wondering about what your life is supposed to be like, yeah Um, we're gonna open up our lives and vulnerably share the humble open and transparent. Yeah, we got a lot of acronyms Like we got a little bro More in this pot. Yeah But we want to help people understand what it is because if you value progression over perfection I promise you your leadership is gonna pop. Absolutely your your ideas are gonna pop

Yeah, like the things that are in your mind in the heart right now that nobody knows about if they go pop out Yeah, and they're gonna actually affect people in the real world world and so I'm excited about this. Charles what are we talking about? I mean today is going to be great. It's really the ground floor and I think we're really going to build a community of people who are committed to that. Just taking a step. There's a quote that says, you can't do everything but you can do something. Yes sir. And so for anybody watching, whether you're a mom, whether you're a student, whether you have an idea, maybe God's given you something and sometimes for me I think it's overwhelming to think of everything that's ahead. Yeah. But today I'm believing you're going to leave with one thing. The one way you can take a step. Working out with us in the gym. There's a quote that the team put on here that I love. It's Martin Luther King. He says, if you can't run, if you can't fly, then run. Yeah. If you can't run, then walk. If you can't walk, then crawl. But do whatever you have to do to keep moving forward. Come on man. And our word of the year is forward. Forward. Come on. It's like we gotta get in the direction of our destiny. There you go. And I really on sabbatical this year, God really, last year, He really spoke to me that everything is ahead. Yeah. That there is nothing in your purpose that is behind you. Yeah. And there are so many people that are romanticizing a past season. Y'all know somebody's girlfriend, she was so, no, she was cross-eyed and ugly. And her breath stunk. Come on, let's be honest. Gotta be honest. But because in that season it felt good. Yeah. You romanticize the past. And I'm using that as an example to think how many times have we thought it was better in a different season, but God was really calling us out of comfort into discomfort to create us to be who He's called us to be. Yep. Absolutely. And there has not been one time in my life that it has been forward and there hasn't been something that caused me to leave something else behind. And I think that's the whole idea of progression. You never are supposed to progress backwards. Yeah. Think about the oxymoron of that. You don't progress backwards, you progress forward. So good. And so this year, I just want everybody to know that we have adopted, I have adopted the mantra that everything is ahead. My best days are ahead. Your best days are ahead. I don't care where you're at right now, what's going on, how you are feeling right now. The thing that God has called you to is not behind you, it's in front of you. And if you commit to this, I believe that you're going to end up in places that you never, ever thought were possible. We are living witness. It's time for you to pop. Let's do it. We got to talk about

this idea of perfectionism. I think this is really the enemy of progress is this idea that it's got to be exact. There's a specific way my marriage has to look, my family has to look, the business, the church. And I'm interested like where, if you were to tap into, because I know this to be true about both of us, if you were going to tap into some of the early areas. Hold on, hold on, Charles, real quick. Yeah. Are we just going to be Mike and Charles on this podcast? Absolutely. That's the only way I know how to do it. Okay, because I just want to make sure because I think somebody We got to let the people know this is not. Okay, so just so you know, this is not a preaching podcast. We're going to talk about preaching. We're going to talk about leadership. We're going to talk about our families. We're going to talk about life. We're going to talk about friendship, but I just want everybody to know like this is not some of these answers aren't going to be professional. Like some of these answers aren't going to be polished because we really want to show you what it looks like to try something, to do something that may be out of the lens that you've even presented yourself in before. And I just before we answer the first question on the first episode of Pop, I just wanted to let you know like my name is Michael and I happen to be a pastor. That is my profession right now. This is Charles. He happens to be a pastor. But if we were male men or we were people that worked at the gym, our name would be Charles and Michael. And so today I want to present that because there's different levels and different layers to who God has made us to be. And I think this is a space that is not a Sunday morning, is not a platform that I get to share from my heart and go on things that aren't necessarily a part of the agenda on Sunday. Well, let's go. Let's go this angle. Let's go jump in there. Many times the labels that we accept become the limit of what we feel like we have to be perfect about it, bro. So like this is a great example of like, okay, we're pastors and that comes with a beautiful responsibility and authority. We're husbands that comes with that. We are leaders. We are all these different things. And for many people, I know for my own self, there's been labels that made me feel like, oh, I got to be a perfect pastor. I got to be a perfect dad. I got to be a perfect mom. And I think there's definitely people who are listening that there's some label where they feel forced, like I got to be perfect in that area. Well, the truth of the matter is that that label is a limit and perfect doesn't exist. Like there is one person that is perfect. His name is Jesus. That's why we follow him. Everybody else is a cheap copy. No matter what they show you, no matter what they say, no matter how they present, no matter how I've presented, I am not perfect. And I think that

the sooner we crucify that idea, it allows us to actually live in freedom. And for me, when I think about it, when I became a pastor, bro, perfect was the only thing I thought I could be. I was wearing four-piece suits and Stacey Adams shoes. What's the fourth piece? I don't even know. I don't even know what the fourth piece was. But I was wearing four-piece suits. I was trying to be what I thought the audience wanted me to be instead of being authentic. That's so good. And I found out that my anointing was in the authenticity. So good. That God doesn't bless who you pretend to be, he blesses who you really are. And for me, that idea of perfection, watch this, it kills what makes you actually you. So good. It is the thing that limits your lead leadership. It limits your ability to stand in your authenticity. And a lot of people just right now, I see them trying to be something that it don't fit them. Yeah, that's true. And I decided and you decided that we're never going to be people who don't fit it. That may mean we lose some. Yeah, 100%. That may mean we lose some opportunities. Yeah. But I would rather show up fully myself than have to fit into the box that somebody made me because I'm good at something. Yeah, absolutely. Or because that's how you met me. Absolutely. And so, yeah, we got to crucify perfection. Well, I think about it in this idea. It's like we can't ignore how social media has created this.

Yeah, dog. Because the truth is you didn't know what all the other moms were doing. You know what I'm saying? Until you could see what all the other moms were doing. You know what I'm saying? It's like you were a great mom because all you knew was you and your little street. But now we get to look at everybody. And everybody on there is always presenting their best version. They're not presenting the mess up. They're trying to pick their most perfect version. And it just creates this war that you cannot win. Well, let me just say this. You said we get to see. We choose to see. Very good. I would like to enter into the chat the idea of setting boundaries. Very good. Because there are so many things that come against your progression because of comparison. So good. And I will say that it has happened to me. We've talked about it before. Like, oh, what God gave me was amazing until I put it up against something that wasn't even assigned to me. And if you are putting up your assignment against somebody else's assignment, what you will do is devalue what God has put a blessing on for your own life. And so there are times in our lives that we really have to limit the amount of options that we see, the amount of images we allow to come in, the amount of things. And right now there is such a FOMO, a fear of missing out on what other people are doing, that many times it clouds our ability to see what God is doing in us. Yes. And I think that does distort how people see their progression.

Because doing 15 pushups was good for you because you used to couldn't do none. Yes, yes. And then somebody says, you're not a real man unless you do 50. It's like, oh, God, I guess I ain't a real man. Like, you know what I'm saying? And I think comparison is a silent killer of people's progression. It makes them go back on the forward movement and makes them have less faith in what God's called them to do right now. That's so true. So true. I think for me, I want to go down this road, and I think it'll be cool to hear your thoughts on it. But where is an early time? When I think of perfection, there's such a pressure with it. Like, we both grew up playing sports, and I, to this day, still have to— To this day! To this day! One of the greatest memes of all time. Yes. But it's like, that was one of the first areas I remember feeling that pressure. Like, I remember, I was just back home, my mom and dad, and my mom had all our old videotapes. And she pulled me up, and I was sixth grade running back in the backfield. And it was like, I immediately remembered sitting back there thinking, don't mess up. Don't fumble the ball. Don't make sure you go through the right hole. And it was this pressure of perfectionism. And for many of us, I think, we talk about, even on this podcast, we're going to talk about three core things, which we'll expand on later, but theology, therapy, and community. But that therapy one is understanding kind of how your childhood impacted you. And I think I can look back on my life very early on and remember this pressure of perfectionism, of I can't mess up and I can't screw up. And I'd be interested, when you think back on your childhood, early years, are there any moments where you saw that start to creep in? Yeah, I mean, so I've been playing drums since I was two years old. And one of the cool things about playing drums from that young is that you progress, and then you're like a little sideshow.

People would be like, get on the drum, baby. Show them the thing you do, baby. Show them the thing you do, you know what I'm saying? And I would get on the drums, and I would play, and it would be like, oh, that's awesome. And then I started playing with my mom when she would go out and speak places. And one of the things is I would be playing with other musicians. And I remember there was a time where I was playing with a musician, and any musician knows that this is true. Like where they're telling you, they start playing a song, and I didn't know the song. Like, I'm six years old. Like, I don't even have a Walkman. Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't have a tape. Playing Earth, Wind, and Fire. Yeah, so I didn't know the song. So I could tell the music director was getting it. getting frustrated because I know he's gonna know. I'm sitting there like, I have no idea. And that was a moment where I realized like, if I'm not perfect, that could affect my ability to actually be chosen. And I remember thinking at six, seven years old, like, okay, I will never be caught in this position anymore. I need to start listening to music and dah, dah, dah. And I started obsessing over being over prepared and being over obsessed with certain things just in case I didn't know a song. Now, how many songs has come out? Do you know what I'm saying? Think of the illogical mindset of a six year old to be like, I gotta know every song

so that if they play a song in church, I'll know it. But that was the creeping in of being perfect, to lending my life to perfectionism. And I can see where that showed up several times in my life until I realized that that wasn't serving me. And it was actually draining the joy out of things that were supposed to be gifts from God. That's good, we gotta talk about that. Like, I just, hearing you say that, I wonder how many people, they don't realize how much joy they're losing just because they have this picture of what they have to be that nobody put on them. Like nobody, that guy wasn't like, go home and learn every song. No, he was just trying to help me get through the song. Exactly, exactly. Well, I think that there's somebody listening right now, and this may be your first time tuning into our podcast because it's our first time doing it. It's everybody's first time. But the thing that I want to let you know is that there is joy that God has designed and he factors in the mess ups, he factors in the blemishes, he factors in all of the moments that aren't favorable and he uses those things to create a beautiful story. The most famous artwork is not artwork that does not have blemishes in it. It's artwork that was authentic to the artist who made it.

And God created us with flaws on purpose so that it would reflect his greatness. Like, he's the only perfect one. And so I'm just asking people that are watching right now, I just feel this moment right now, Charles, that there's somebody watching right now that needs to know that your joy will come back when you take the pressure off of you being perfect. Like, the joy will come back. You can actually not be on time for everything scheduled on the vacation. Maybe like, just put, y'all know, you know them people who schedule everything on the vacation and I'm just saying, like, I'm not, I'm fine with you doing what you're doing but if something didn't happen at the time, you literally lose a whole day. Mad at your kids, mad at your spouse, mad at everybody else because you will not let the flaws of life turn into fruit. I have seen some of my flawed moments turn into the most beautiful fruit because, I'll say it like this, doo-doo is used as fertilizer. Crappy moments are used as fertilizer. I'm telling you, in my life, bro, some of my worst moments, some things that I wish I wouldn't have done and some things that God allowed that I wish he wouldn't have allowed,

they literally were the fertilizer to the most beautiful seasons of my life and I needed to not be perfect in that moment, to find out another piece about God, that he loves me even when I'm not perfect, that he still chooses me when I'm not perfect, that my wife still chooses me when I don't do the right thing. You really find out who's for you, who loves you when you actually experience moment of progression. And I just think that everybody should embrace that in this season a little more. The joy might come back to your life. Absolutely. Well, when you said that, it made me think of, you know, when you're in that state of the pressure to be perfect and you feel like I gotta be this, what I found myself questioning is, do you love me for me? Do you love me for the perfect me that I presented to you? Like, do you love me for like, because all of us, we have these versions of ourselves that we present that are like, okay, I'll be this type of person and I'll present to you that way. But underneath that, you really are insecure in your relationships because you don't know who loves you for just me.

And I think that's even been a beautiful thing. I mean, we've been friends for nine years now and to be able to grow in that together on both sides of our friendship has been such a beautiful things that like, and it's been a process. It's been progress to see like, okay, if I show you this and it's like, oh wow, okay, you're still here. Am I still gonna have a job? No, a hundred percent. If I show you this, but that's what living real life together looks like. And part of the reason why we're doing this is to show that you can be in ministry, there can be a set order, but there can still be for real relationship. And I mean, probably if you go with us through the seasons, you'll hear some of our darker stories. You'll hear some of our triumph moments because we're gonna be hot. We're gonna be humble, open and transparent. But I just think that people need to know that this is a beautiful way to live because Jesus walked with people who were not perfect. Peter literally cut off somebody's ear and Jesus was like my bad. Yeah, and put it back on like Like I just want everybody to understand that perfectionism may be the thing that's killing your purpose It's a lot of weight to try to be perfect all the time Yeah, but what if you could come to it with an attitude that values progression? And that's why you said in the opening progressions the whole point. Yep. That's the point

Like if I'm here today, I'm trying to just be a little bit better tomorrow Yeah, if you if you're unhealthy today, like try just not to eat so many doughnuts My next yeah, like I'm saying like little steps of progression that cause Monumental legacy moves in your life. Yeah, but it's consistency over time. That's so good I want to talk about this what is because you said we've said a bunch but we're hot humble open and transparent Yeah, and you're gonna get the real version of us on here. There ain't no this ain't made up This ain't fake. But what is something right now that you're you're trying to make progress in that like it's an active area I'm sure I know what are you talking about, bro? What's the area that we're not trying? Yeah, that's a better question No, yeah, what's something right now in your life? They're like man, I'm really I'm really working on this and trying to figure it out. Um, I'm trying to work, bro This is such a loaded question because I'm a person that has adopted this with my whole life Hmm, and so, um, I'm really trying to be a present father. Yeah, um Trying to figure out what does that system look like? That's like what what I got four kids. Yeah, man, and and a dog Yeah, and it's the dog that take you over the edge. Y'all don't get a dog. No, I'm just playing But like what does that look like how to be a present father how to carve out time? Specifically for each of my kids to make sure they know they're seen soothe safe and secure Yeah, like how do I do that? Because right now I'm forming them and I got one job as their fire Yeah father trained him in the way they should go. Yeah All the way away and on every way of the thing which there's I'm sure there's parents watching this but the thing I realize it's Like I don't just have four kids. I have to be four different dad Yeah, and it's in those moments between that like cook you cuz it's like with Arlo I've got to be present and a little bit Luna. You got it. Like hey girl Like it's oh, yeah, it's those switches between like, how do I be what they need it? Let me tell you a real story Okay, so just the other day I might get cooked for saying this but we're gonna be we here we're here The school called me and told me my daughter Bella Cheating on a science Okay, so I'm just gonna get into it right now Bella. I'm sorry. This is And so my first question is how did you Oh, yeah And see this I don't know if I'm a good parent exactly I'm just thinking like how did you tell me but I'm still trying to

Be stern and she's like and she came and told me she was like dad Hey, just letting you know, I cheat on my science test. Don't worry mom. Are you talk to me? And then I was like, how did what happened? Yeah, I'm saying you're trying to really get to you what happened She's like why I wrote the answer on my hand I Ain't caught or nothing. I have not taught it the proper way and then I was like no That's not but this what I'm saying. Like it's like real life of like there's a part of me is like I need to teach Yeah, I need to get up to the level so she don't get caught and then there's another part of me What are you doing? You don't you yeah, so the reason I say that is because that is a dichotomy of being a parent That is a dichotomy of like being a pastor and then telling you your daughter like but just don't get caught Like you understand what I'm saying? Like and Natalie were literally in the bed like man We should teach you a little better and I was like, maybe we can't do that because that's not good But bro, it's true man and Natalie was like she should have done symbols like she and I was like, no, baby Not symbols like but again, I'm saying that because as parents, we're not perfect. We're not perfect We're trying to teach her the right way to do it. And so that's an area So real that that we're trying to just show up. I have a son with special needs and so my son loves playing go-tickle He's 10, but go-tickle means we are gonna run around the house for 15 minutes and I have to catch him Yeah, and that little Joker's fast And so like and I mean he'll jump over furniture He's like American Ninja Warrior and he's literally like go tickle So a lot of people don't know why I spend so much time working out and staying in shape Yeah, but it's one of the only ways yeah that me and my son can connect Yeah, and I want to be able to do that with him. He's waiting for me to come home right now So I can play go-tickles with you. Yeah, that is Part of trying to figure out how do I become better? Yes being a father. How do I show up? How do I do that? I wanna throw that question back to you. What's an area right now that you are, man, trying to progress in? I think the father one hits immediately, obviously,

but the one specifically is my personal habits and routines. I think I am, I'm just learning that you're only as powerful as your routines, you know? Because there are moments where life is great and everything is good, and then all your, I remember when I was trying to develop these, I set all my habits for the best version of me. You know what I'm saying? Meaning like, I wake up at four in the morning, I read three chapters of the Bible, and then I'm doing my affirmations. Well, it's like, if you set it up here, what happens when you wake up late? What happens when you, you know what I'm saying? You weren't feeling great. And so for right now, I'm trying to actively work on daily routines. Like this morning, I got up, I made my cup of coffee, I went through my little, there's a Bible reading plan I'm doing, and then I did my little thing. I took, I'm added to my routine, just taking our dog on a walk, and it's more so just for, I don't have my phone with me, it's just like, and part of that is some of the stuff you were talking about of just like, I just need a spot where I'm not looking at something, and nobody's telling, I'm not hearing nobody else sing, I'm not hearing nobody else preach, I'm not, you know what I'm saying?

And so for me, I think those routines I'm learning that for me, for me to be the most healthy version of myself, I've gotta progress in my, what's not natural to my personality. That would be the point. And I think there are a lot of people that they limit their progression to just their natural wiring. You know what I'm saying? Growing up, it was like, oh, I'm very kind of random, I'll go with the flow, I'm chill. But it's like, that doesn't mean you don't need to progress in making habits that are healthy for you. So just because it's not your natural personality doesn't mean you can't grow in it. And what I've found is these habits are producing more freedom. It's making me more of myself and have more creative ideas and be able to be more present. And so that's the thing actively right now is like, how do I do my habits? How do I stay in rhythm with these? To make me just have space, to be more consistent. I think that's the thing. Progress for me, the perfection version of me is like, it's obsessed with getting exactly right. But if I can just take steps, I'm getting better every single day. I'm getting better every single day. It's a lot of hope for me.

Okay, so I'm gonna take this another way. What's an area your wife would say you need to progress in? Come on, let's go, let's get hot right now. And I'll answer it too. How would Abbey answer Charles needs to progress in? Okay, no, no, no. I'll give you two. The funny one immediately is not rinsing my dishes out in the sink. I feel that. Just to put them in there. Just put them in there. You know what I'm saying? Because to me, I grew up in the back half house where you do just like a general visual eye clean. Which is like, if you look across and there's no plates anywhere, it's clean. But you go to that sink and it's got all types of choices. So that's the consistent one. That one and picking up my towel. She will lose it on me if you don't pick up your towel. The actual thing I think is, I think learning, which this is the classic husband one, but learning when to just listen and when to fix. Oh my God, have mercy. We can do a whole episode because we're wired to try the solution. You just immediately like. You're telling me this because we about to fix it, right?

Exactly. Oh no, you was just talking? That literally. We had a whole, our last date night, we had a whole sideways joint where she said something and I immediately was like, well do this, do that, and do this. And she was like, okay yeah, that's not really what. I'm like, well then come. I just kept going and we kept missing it. Shut up. Shut up. Just stop talking. Yes. You could actually have peace right now with no words. Yeah bro, it's a whole different thing. But it is, yeah. I think I immediately want to, because here's the flip of it, I would say, another way I need to progress is I would judge my husband perfect card on how, are you okay? And so if you're not okay, does that make me a bad husband? And sometimes it is, but sometimes it's just your own work. And so I learned even some of this was like me trying to control like, oh I feel bad because you're not good. And okay, let me just fix it and get you right. Because that'll make you feel better. Because that'll make me feel better.

That's not actually helping you. I'm just doing this weird kind of exchange versus really being like, oh what do you actually need? What you really need is just somebody to hear you right now. And so yeah man, that's the, what about you? What would Natalie Todd say? I mean, it would be a list. And I'll tell her, rip up your list. No. I think that a lot of it we're working on. Okay, let me see, progression, not perfection. But I think the funny one would be my wife. Dang, there's so many. I'm trying to figure out. And the reason I'm saying there's so many is because this is a beautiful thing. Like being self-aware is powerful. Yeah. Like one thing that I have decided to be is not delusional. Yeah. Like I can't fix everything and I can't do everything that I want to, but at least I'm aware. Yes. And that gives me the ability to go from somewhere. Yes. And it is nothing like being around people who are not aware. Have you ever been around somebody whose breath stinks and they don't know it? Y'all know what I'm talking? Does anybody know what I'm talking about? And you've ever been around anybody that like they have an odor or I'm just saying like, no, it's true, but they don't, but you literally don't, they don't know it. You don't know. Yeah. That is a very hard situation to be in. It's a fear of mine. If that ever happens to me, I literally go off on people. Hey, y'all tell me if my breath stinks. Like tell me if I, because the truth of the matter. Cause that's a reflection of your friends. And it's a reflection

of you not bathing and brushing your teeth. But what I'm saying is, but not knowing. Yeah, man, that's it is, is so hard to progress without awareness. That's good. Yeah. This is a point that somebody needs to take. Yeah. If you are not aware, you can't know where you're going from or going to. That's so good. And so for me, I'm aware of a lot of my, I just came back from doing a whole week of, you was on the trenches brother, personal intensive counseling. I've been doing a lot of stuff. So I'm real open right now. I'm very aware of the places that I can progress. So I would say in my communication, when I talk passionately and all this stuff, I'd be on like a two in my mind, but it registers as a 15 in hers. And Natalie is very like just chill, calm. And so just in the tone, the facial expressions, the, all the different things that go along with that, like, that's an area that I am progressing. And, um, I also think just, I mean, my wife wants me to like, you know, do all kinds of like, she wants me to grill and like, like, yeah, man, I never did. I never jumped on the grill thing, brother. I got friends. We literally, I'd be inviting Ty over when Abby want to grill Aaron. I'll be like, Hey bro. Like my wife wants some I'm totally securing that. I'm not the grill guy. I don't know. I think the progression for that is going to be hard. It feels like, it feels like an age thing. Cause my dad, he hit a grip. This man be grilling like grilling and he'd be doing salmon. He'd have the whole half fish. I'm like, where did you get that? First of all, did he, did y'all grow up? No way, brother. We grew up going to White Castle. So, so it happened. It happened at like, yeah, maybe once you hit 50 or something, they give you like a set of tools or things. I don't know. Brother, I don't see myself outside just burning up for some meat when I can call Texas de Brazil and get some good steak. But see, that's what I'm saying. And the reason she wants you to hit the grill, like bro, she's like, why don't you go out there? I said, are you hungry? Like I can fix that. Do I need to call somebody? And I'm, and so again, like, but that's the difference between, um, um, perfection in a relationship and progression. Like we can come to an understanding that she knows now, like, that's not me. And that we can still have some great barbecue. And so again, I think that self awareness and I, the only reason I bring that up is because if you don't know yourself, it is very difficult to then let somebody know your limit, your boundary, your area of like, Hey, this is just not me, but I think we can be okay with that. And that's where we had to progress to. Yeah. Cause there was unspoken expectations. That's funny. But like, there was probably some angst there. It's like it's barbecue time and I'm ready to get the ice cream. You understand what I'm

saying? I'm bringing, I'm bringing boobies for everybody. And she wanted me to be out there the ribbon. Let's talk about that because I think we talk about progress. Um, part of that is gaining that awareness. And how do you, let's say you're in a spot where you feel like you're not aware, like, yo, I'm listening to this. I don't, I'm not aware. Maybe there's some stuff I don't know. How do you, maybe it's a two-sided coin. What steps to becoming aware. And then also, let's say you are aware of somebody, your spouse, your friend, and you need to tell them something like, man, I don't know if you know your breaks think, or maybe it's more serious. I don't know how you come across relationally. How can people, what are some tools or ways that I know we've had to learn that in leadership as husbands. How can you like, if we're going to make progress, we've got to both establish, Hey, this is where we are. And that can be dicey. That can be, I mean, it can be, it can be tragic if the relationship is not built on honesty. Very good. I think the reason that me and you have worked so well for a lot of years through hard situations. Yeah. It's because we're honest. Yeah, it's true. It's built on. Hey, this is this is how I'm feeling. Let me know if you feel differently or hey, this is what I saw Yeah, um, hey, can I can I and even asking? Yeah, practically. Can I share something with you that I'm not sure? How it's gonna land. Yeah, like that little sentence right there will literally change people when you Ask and not just throw your opinion on somebody It opens them up just a little bit to be able to even hear something hard. Yeah, and I just think that for me the relational equity that I build before a moment really allows me to have the Right and the clearance to say hard things. Yeah, and I think for me It's the same way with people saying hard things to me I've had some people say some really hard things to me that love me Some hard things about how they felt about something that love me. Yeah, and you have to be humble enough That's the second thing that has to be feel founded on trust But the other thing is to be able to progress and and have people around you that can tell you something or become aware You got to be humble. Yeah, that's good. We all got blind spots. Yeah We all have areas that we need to progress in that are honestly beyond our scope and they only get exposed in failure They only get exposed in a mess up

yeah, and I mean I just remember so many moments of my life of God using a mess up to literally Help give other people the opportunity to say what they've been needing to say. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, like yeah How responding to something like yeah, you kind of always act like that You know what I'm saying like but that that's good for self-evaluation so a relationship has to be formed on trust there has to actually be a Humility there and then the last thing is that I would say for anybody that wants a real relationship like if you want it to be Intentional is that you got to have the ability to come back and ask questions because You just telling me something don't mean nothing if after I process it You're not even willing to understand or hear me Yes about maybe why did that or does this come across the same way or because it's a refining that happens in that moment And I think that part of my progression has been it hasn't been one-sided where somebody just said something left me with it Yeah, it was it became a dialogue. Yeah. Hey, can you help me with it? And then there was sometimes accountability with that and then there was there was even More trust that was formed because you know a flaw of mine Yeah, and now you can see something that everybody else doesn't necessarily see Yeah, but you can help me be better in this. Yeah, and so, um, that's good I think that helps absolutely able to create that connection a hundred percent. Let's take a turn here I just thought of this when we're talking is um, I want to talk about and again There's a there's a wide scope of things that there were obviously a part of and do but I want to talk about progressing in your craft And both of us we preach the Bible and I always it's a weird thing to me because it's like There is this there's so many layers to preaching it's like one This is like this supernatural holy thing. Yes, that is like there's a divine Exchange where you're reading something, but God's talking to somebody in their spirit something you never said Yes, so there's this crazy spiritual layer. There's a layer that is like This book was written in a different language and I'm trying to And I didn't go to college The Greek the Hebrew the Latin. Yes, like there's so much of that and then there's just the practical getting comfortable

Like, you know I'm saying like we both start preaching at a young age And so talk to me about that of like how have you held? I I think I've been we've been friends and seen each other grow in how we preach and I'm say our craft in some of It there's things outside of that but is this this preaching thing? But there are so many people that sometimes that pressure to be perfect Keeps them from ever trying and being able to admit like oh, I missed that or oh man now I would do that differently, but I think that's something that I think in similar and in different ways We both like oh, this is what we do and I want to get better at it And we're committed to that and I don't know. How do you hold that because it's so so it's so Yes, it's just so layered and layered. Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that I've Committed to is being fully who I am today. Yes. I am a hundred percent myself Mm-hmm today. Yeah, and I'm fully committed to that version today. Yes, and it can change tomorrow Absolutely, because yeah, I think a lot of people are so tentative on trying to be perfect. Yeah, um that they cut off The development is so good. There is not one NBA player that makes all of his shots Yeah, there's not one NFL player that throws the ball and catches every Ball that story. Yeah. Yeah, there's not there's not one teacher that that teaches every subject right. I think the beauty of life is that there are pieces of it that are literally meant for us to miss, so that we can see humanity, we can see God, and we can see ourselves. That's really good. And so for me, when it came to preaching, number one, I never wanted to do this. Well you start, I know, I've heard all the lore and the stories. We've got somebody in here who heard your early service, but this was not your plan. Bro, I would have never picked this for myself. What are you talking about? I didn't want to preach. I didn't want to be a pastor. This was a calling. And the beautiful thing about many things I see in the Bible is that God never called people into things they were already familiar in. So that meant there would have to be a level of progression. That's so good. And I think that there are so many times that we think that we know it's God because we're good at it. And I would just like to dispel that myth right now, that many times you know it's God because you're not good at it. And it's going to require his strength, his wisdom, dependency on

him daily. And that's what this has been. I mean, my whole ministry career has been progression, not perfection. It's not just a podcast title. This is the way we live. And I think there's something that God honors about people who would do it scared, will do it without the full blueprint, will do it without... I mean, I've got too many examples in the Bible. Moses is out here leading these people to a... I mean, he barely could talk. He barely could talk, kill the guy. Like, come on, man. What are we talking about? We got Noah out here building a cruise ship, and we don't even know if he was a carpenter before this moment. Do you understand what I'm saying? We have Daniel out here killing lions. It's just too many times in a word I see where God is looking for somebody's answer before he's looking for their expertise. Very good, yeah. And I just gave God yes. Absolutely. I gave him my yes. It's that beautiful example of like, because I think again, the pressure of being perfect, you want to get it all together and be perfect before you say yes. But I think of that story in the Bible where it says, as they went, they were healed. As they went, they were healed. You know what I'm saying? And so for many people, it's like, as you accept the call, that's how you're going to get the reps, and you're going to make mistakes, and you're going to fall down. And I think the real thing is, I said this to somebody earlier, it was like, some people are not brave enough to fail in front of people. But the truth is, if you never find that bravery, you never get the opportunity to find out what's actually in you. So you never get... There are certain parts of you that only come out after failure 14, after failure 24. You know what I'm saying? So you've got to get through those. And sometimes it's uncomfortable. I think you have to navigate. Not everybody, I think you're one of the people, you don't get the privilege of figuring it out behind closed doors. Some people you have to... But having that courage, and that's something I love about you, is you have the courage for your progress to be public. And that comes with a burden. I know it comes with a weight. It comes with being misunderstood. But I think I'm a product, and so many people are a product of, I'm going to put my progress out

here. Because a lot of us, the picture of perfect we had, are because people never showed us their progress. Don't talk to me. We saw it was, you was this, and then all of a sudden you're over here, and we have no understanding of how you did it. So we're just left out here to make it up. And I think that's what this podcast is, that's what our ministry is, is to be a picture for people. We are figuring this out as we go, and that can give you the license to do it too. And God honors that. He honors obedience over perfectionism. If I could get anybody to understand anything, is that the people who are judging you are not going to be your judge. That the people who are talking about you are not going to be the ones that give the final word about you. That the people you're scared to look foolish in front of have no say over your eternal destiny. And for me, I had to make a decision early on in this walk, especially because God put me in a public light, that I would have to be obedient no matter what that meant. So that meant sometimes when he tells me to represent and try things, and do things that are out of the box, and go after people who are in entertainment and in the office, when he tells me to do this, I ain't never done that before. So let's try some things. And we try some things and it's like, ah, that wasn't the best. Or, oh, that might've been taken out of context. Or, ah, I could've done that better. But that's part of what he told me to do. And so I think that my encouragement to everybody to actually take on this idea of everything you do, I'm going to make it pop. Everything I'm going to do, it's going to be progression over perfection. Because my obedience to God is more valuable than your opinion of me. My obedience to God is more valuable. than your opinion of me. And if I am listening to the feedback of everybody else and not the faithfulness that I give to God, it changes the way that God gets to partner with me. Yes. It's the story of the talons. I gave you something. What'd you do with it? I buried it because I didn't want to. Yeah. And everybody has that. Many people have that mentality when it comes to the thing. That may not be popular. That may not be. I mean being a pastor in 2026 is not a popular job. No, it's a calling. Yep. Yeah, the sacrifice, the delay, the delineation of your own personality and what God has called you to do and how, man, it is. But my obedience to God is more important than getting anything perfect for myself or for anybody else. Yeah, if you're watching and listening to this, man, I hope you're being able to take some of these things because that's our hope today is maybe you have an area that you need

to be obedient in and the idea of being perfect, the idea of what if I mess up, has kept you. But today you can make a decision. I'm not gonna be perfect. I'm throwing perfect out the window. Yes, sir. That's what we need to do. Sacrificing it. Some of you need to take down perfect, throw it out the window. Murder it. It got all gory. You got it all intense. Dang. Slaughter it up. Yes. But one thing that I think is a core part of this is these three words, which is theology, therapy, and community. And these are really, again, core to how we operate, how we think, and theology, this represents the idea of what is true? What does the Word of God say? What does God say? What is the truth? And He is the only source of truth. Everything else is a facade, is trying to pretend around it, but we need that truth as an anchor. But then that therapy is what am I learning? How am I progressing? And the last part is community, and that is who am I talking with it about? And I think that's been so integral to our growth, into our progress, is all three of those things. Sometimes, and I love it because it's kind of like it's like different levers in different seasons of your life. Sometimes I'm stuck in my progress because I don't know what's true about the Word. I was reading it today, and there's a scripture of Mark where Jesus, he's talking to the Pharisees, and he says, you are wrong because you don't know the scriptures, and you don't know God. And he just double cooks them. It was like the best thing in the world. But sometimes some of us are stuck because you don't know what God says about you. You don't know that God says, hey, come to me all who are weary, and I'll give you rest for your soul. Like, you don't know that He says, before you and your mother were born, I knew you, and I formed you, and I had a plan. You don't know that He says, don't you realize your body is a temple? So if you don't know the truth, sometimes you can't move forward. Sometimes we have the truth, but we don't have awareness of how that truth applies to our life. So I got this, but just because I know it doesn't mean I can do it. I need to become aware. I need to get somebody to give me some feedback, and then sometimes some tools, yeah, stuff you don't have. And then other parts, it's like, okay, I got the truth. I got the understanding, and I got the tools, but I need to talk. I need a friend that can, and talk about that for a second.

I know we're coming to the end of our time, but talk about that, because I think those three things, anybody listening today could take those three things and say, where do I need to understand the truth? Where do I need some tools, and where do I need to talk? Well, the Word of God is the supreme, literally, playbook for life. The Bible says that He has given us everything we need that pertains to a godly life. Like, everything that we need comes to us in salvation. But the truth of the matter is, without knowing what those things are, without studying the Word, without seeing those examples, that's why the Bible says, the Word I've written on my heart. And I know that cell phones and Siri and chat GPT is amazing, but what scriptures are written on your heart? What are the things that come up when you get angry? What are those scriptures that you have in your heart when your faith is low, when you're feeling down, when you feel overwhelmed? What are the things that pop up? And I'm not saying you got to have a million of them, but what are those anchor scriptures? Because the truth is what comes out when you get squeezed. That's good, yeah. And the truth of the matter is, I don't care how much you say you love God, when you get squeezed, when the pressure is on, when the things happen, what's in you comes out. And there are some scriptures that God has anchored my life with. I mean, one of them I say all the time, but God gives you both the power and the desire to do what pleases Him. I think I learned that scripture from you. You did? I never knew that scripture in my life. Philippians chapter 2 says...

But the reason is because think about me coming into pastoring. Think about me leading people that were 50 years older than me. Think about me taking over a church after 16 years. Think about me trying to walk my wife into this arena, and we were headed to New York and L.A. to be a music producer. Think about all the things, and that scripture anchored me. Every time I got squeezed, God will... Both give you both the power and the desire to do what pleases him Yeah, that scripture got me through more years of ministry. Yeah more years of marriage counseling I'm so good. Just that one script. Yeah. Yeah, and what I'm saying is that's why you don't need 50. Yes Yeah, that Philippians do God will give me both the desire. Yeah, and the power Yeah to do what pleases so good that puts a battery in my back Yeah, and even to this day the things when it gets hard when I have to go in and make a hard decision It's like God give me the desire and power to do what pleases him The reason I keep going on today is because that's the truth that has transformed me. Mmm, very good I've seen it work in my life Yeah And if you're going to value progression over perfection That means God's gonna put you in some positions where you're not gonna know what to do Yeah, and you're gonna have to progress even though it's hard You're gonna have to progress even though they left you're gonna have to progress even though you feel a certain way Yeah And when you say that you can literally be in the worst moment of your life and say but my word God's Word says that he'll give me both the desire and the power to do what pleases him and move forward So that's why I think that the truth of God's Word is literally what my soul responds That's so good. Well, my mind doesn't understand when when when everything around me feels shaken the truth of God's Word But that's what I found in seasons that it felt like the truth wasn't working by itself Yeah, it's because there was an understanding that I did not have of how to apply it in my life That's so good. And so the truth you can't apply doesn't change you So it's like just because it's true like we all know it's true that if you go to the gym, you get healthy

Yeah, yeah, so that is what we don't know how to work the machine But if you walk up there and you got that joint It's not gonna transform you The bad gym videos right now Just give me like six bad gym videos and this is how a lot of people look the truth man quoting scriptures Yeah, but don't know how it applies to their life. That's so good And that's why I think therapy is a big deal probably about five or six years ago when me and Nat decided that we could not just hold on to A prayer card or a scripture and navigate our son having autism. Yeah what that was doing to both of us Yeah, um, thank God for community Brie, she called an intensive counseling place for us that we still go to to this day Yeah that I just got back from last week that really equipped us. We had never done therapy We had never heard of pastors doing that unless they were about to get divorced. Yeah, or somebody cheated Yeah, or but just to navigate life Yeah just to figure out and how we saw the transformation happen in us we came back and made that a literal mandate for everybody on our executive team like You went to counseling a therapy Like our whole team and I mean our staff we have people that just started here. Shout out to John going to therapy Yeah I'm just saying like there are people that are transforming right now Because they're unpacking with somebody who's been on a trip like that before. That's so good. And it's very hard To have a scripture, but you haven't unpacked how you felt unseen as a child That's so good because the way you felt then affects how you think God sees you So that scripture is distorted or perverted or doesn't mean something or you have expectations with it because you don't understand what's happening in yourself Absolutely and I think that God is so good that he made the brain to be a certain way and he made our nervous system be a Certain way and he made our body to give us signals that you know, something's not right Something's not happening. And when you get the tools to be able to walk in therapy Yeah, bro. It is it has saved my life and the truth of the matter is

All these years of me being pastor I have not heard many pastors championing therapy Yeah, they just want you to meet with a pastoral staff. Yeah, and I'm telling you that's great. Yes. God bless America Amen, but a lot of those people. Yes do not have the tools to help you unpack What you're doing? There's great counsel great with the Bible tells us there is wisdom in the multitude of counsel Also, and yes, there are some tools some ideas some philosophies and we promote Christian counseling Somebody who understands God's Word the theology part of it. We say we believe in theology and therapy Yeah, because but how to apply that stuff absolutely has added years to our life brought us satisfaction and given us tools to help people Absolutely. We've been in a series that has been transforming people's lives. Yep, because of The work we did on ourselves a hundred percent in intensive there Yes And so I just I will just say to anybody yes Like if you've never done therapy if you've never had a counselor if you've never watched this paid for it. It's a greater investment than your car. It's a greater investment than your clothes. It's a greater investment than the house you live in. Why are you saying that, Pastor Mike? What does it profit a man to gain the entire world and lose his own soul? And I just see so many people, Charles, that are getting more Instagram followers, pages blowing up, flying here, flying there, still empty. That's so true. Still can't figure out why stuff doesn't fill the void. And I just think therapy is a huge deal for us. It's so important. And let me go on my nerdy, we'll make this a pop rant, is what we'll call it maybe. But if you study history, church and science were always on the same side until a man named Galileo suggested that the earth wasn't the center of the universe. The church threw him in jail for this. This is literally what happened to history. He's like, hey man, I've been looking in the sky and it looks like there's other planets. And they're like, this is ridiculous, throw this guy in jail. And from that moment in history, science and the church split to where church and God were over here and science was trying to fight the church and they weren't, blah, blah, blah. But when you really start to study science that God created, it all points to God. And what I'm saying that because is some people think, well, I don't need a therapist, I got Jesus. And it's like, yes, you have Jesus. And someone went to college and studied how your brain works and can teach you how to, the Bible says, yes, the Bible says don't conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That is the science of neural pathways being rewired.

So this is not an enemy to us, this is an asset to us. And God can, there have been, well, I've been in counseling sessions where the Holy Spirit was so present where it felt like the presence of God. We were in the fourth song of worship and I'm just sitting there crying in a little room. But I want to encourage somebody with that because some people, they put this enemy of like, oh, I don't know about all that. It's like, no, this is, God created all of this. He made your body. And I've been sitting in sessions and I'll be sitting there and I'll say something and they'll be like, oh, what was that? And I'm like, what? And they're like, well, the way your tone adjusted and the way you lean back, I could tell that that was a trick. And I'm like, oh, and so anyway. No, it wasn't. Yeah. But yeah, man, I think just to your point, theology and therapy, and then this last part, community, you got to have people. The scripture revelation says people overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. And sometimes you just need somebody. So you just don't feel crazy. I can't tell you how many times me and you, I remember this past summer in June, man, our life went sideways, right? When our book was coming out, we had a whole house thing going on. We got to do that when God chooses you and everything else doesn't. God chose me, but the earth didn't. That will make sense when you hear the story. But man, I remember we literally, I remember we were at the top of our parking garage and my tiny little mini Cooper. And part of us was just talking, just me venting to hear somebody say, Hey, you're not crazy. I hear you. You fine. You going to go back and do the right thing. You're not going to do that. You're not. And I just think, you know, we get so robbed because maybe we have the truth. Maybe we have the tools, but we ain't got nobody to talk to. Yeah. You don't got a squad. You don't got a team. You don't have people around you. And the Bible says- That you can be real with. Now that's the key. That you can be humble, open, and transparent, and that won't judge you because of your progression. And I think that's why the Bible says in James, like there's the healing comes not when the pastor prays for you, not when the prophet prays for you. Like when just a brother, a sister gets around you, he said, you'll pray for each other. And that's where you're going to be healed.

You confess your sins one to another, pray for each other. And that's where healing comes from. That's beautiful. If the church really knew that the healing doesn't come because the pastor pray for you at the altar, but it could come with your mechanic agreeing with you at the body shop, it would revolutionize how people walked in healing. And I think for me, some of my greatest moments of breakthrough have come on my friend's couch, have come in car rides, have come just me and Nat being with Bree and Aaron, or us all being together at dinner, or us being at Tim and Julie, me and you being at Tim Ross's dining room table and like Chipotle sitting on the table and God literally healing us because we got people. And this is what I tell people that the fear of being vulnerable with somebody else is robbing you of the healing that comes from those exact same people. And there is healing in other people. Your greatest wounds come from people and your greatest healing will come from them too. And that's why you have to know who is supposed to be in your life. for what season and what they're there for. But I'm telling you, community has saved my life. Community has given me joy. Community has, literally when I was on the brink of all kind of stuff, it's been the people that God has sent into my life. And so if you're isolated right now or living alone, I just want you to know that that's not progression. You need to go towards having good relationships, some good relationships. I'm not talking about a hundred, but three, four. That's a blessing. That is a blessing, man. And I think that some of the relationships God has given us have been so healthy that they inspire us to be healthier. Very good. I think the big part of having good people around you

is that helps you progress. Absolutely. So if you don't value perfection but progression and your whole squad does that, it's just like hooping. When you hoop with good hoopers, somehow your game gets better. You all of a sudden, you're trying stuff you ain't never tried before. Bro, oh man, my bad, dog. I forgot, I don't shoot. But the thing is, it gives you confidence. When you're around a good marriage, it makes you be like, man, what do we need to fix to be able to do that? And I just think that your crew helps change how you progress. Well, you, and we're about to close out, but you preached an awesome sermon this past Sunday. It was so, so good. My little brother called me about it. He was like, yo, did he preach about that song? I was like, yeah, bro, you gotta watch it. It's incredible. But one of the things we were talking about is your pack and your crew. And I think this idea, something we said when we were prepping was like, when you have a crew, for me and Abby specifically, I know, when I'm sideways and I'm not making progress, she has the trust in the pack I run with

that my pack will help me make the progress. Abby's called me before. Oh, on, bro, let me tell, the clock is red, but I'm about to tell this story. We had been at TC for like maybe a year, and we get in an argument, and I straight hit the shutdown button. I don't hit it much anymore, man, but that was my go-to move first three years of marriage. Yeah, we just closed down, completely disconnected. And legit, she's like, we're going to Mike and Nat's. And I'm like, I'm not going nowhere. You can go there. She literally, and she called you on the phone, and I'm sitting in our living room, and she's like, we are arguing, and Charles is not talking, and we're coming to your house. And I'm literally like, I am not going over, and I literally remember her going like this on the phone. He ended up at my house. I was at the house. He ended up at my house. And that's one of the most beautiful gifts you can have, like community that allows you not to have to be, especially in a marriage, the end of the conversation. That's so good, yeah. Right now, if I'm start tripping, there are about seven people that my wife knows, there's no way this is going to end like this

without him, them, him, them, them, and him coming in. And that's beautiful, because it creates safety, man. And I just think that those are three things that we are going to really, really, really be trying to give you throughout this podcast. This is our first one. First one. Welcome to episode one, season one of the Progression Over Perfection podcast, where we want your life to pop. And why are you saying that is because without honesty, without being humble, open, and transparent, without us sharing about theology, therapy, and community, I don't think that we have the greatest opportunity to be everything that God has called us to be. And so what we're making a pact, I don't know how many seasons this is going to last, but we going to do this first one, because God loves to see and rejoices over the beginning of a thing. This is the beginning of a thing, and we hope to add value and authenticity to your lives that turns into an anointing, or God's approval on what you are doing in your sphere of influence. Whether you're a professional athlete, whether you're a musician, whether you're a business owner, whether you're a stay-at-home mom, whether you are an entrepreneur, whether you're a pastor, a leader, we are going to open up our lives

and share with you genuinely, so that everything that God has called you to will pop, and it will infect and affect other people, that the progression of your life would change. And we're believing that as you watch all of these episodes, that literally God would give you gems. Like we're speaking, but we want him to speak to you too. We want you to see mirrors at times of yourself, but more than anything, we want you to understand that God takes imperfect people who are committed to progressing, and he changes other people's lives because they fall in purpose. So today, we love you, we appreciate you. We're going to ask you to do all them random podcast things. Like, like. subscribe We I need like we need the thing we gotta get the we gotta get the thing Stevens We need some sound effects. We need like this is episode one. Yeah, the set may change Our hair may change Charles here Like y'all gonna see these part guesses. He might come in with purple hair tomorrow and it's all good because it's progression Yeah over perfection. This has been the pop podcast That sounded like pot podcast that this is not the pot podcast. I'll tell you that P O T P O P O T No, yeah, man. You have to go to a different YouTube channel for that, but thank you for joining us. We love you episode one We'll see you next time that thing dog. It's out of here. Let's go