Everybody Wants Friends For The Highlight, Not The Fight | POP Podcast Ep. 4

Yes sir! Pop pop! Today we're talking about friends for the fire. If it's time to fight, is there certain friends you want with you? Oh yeah, absolutely. And other friends that you would be like, nah we'll tell you about the story. There's so many moments where, on both ends, where it's like, I don't necessarily know what to do to fix this, I can't just be here. There's so many moments where I've seen the power of presence. How do you get to the three that were with Jesus in the garden? Yeah, we eat together, you've seen the miracles, but I need you too. It was spring break week for the Todd Squad. Dad, we gotta jump in, we gotta jump in, we gotta jump in and we're gonna all jump in together, bro. The pool was still in winter. So, what about y'all? Well, y'all are, your kids are homeschooled. Yeah, so, you know, spring break is every two days. You know what I'm saying? You have certain friends that are built off of, oh, we just homies and we hoop together. And then it's like, once you start dating a girl, or definitely when you get married, it's like, oh man, you changed, you ain't one of them. It's like, bro, get out of my way. Get out of my way. Hey, listen, until next time.

That's pop. Well, hello, friend. I want to welcome you to the pop podcast. The Progression Over Professional. Yes, sir! We got new toys up in here. We got new sound effects. I'm dropping bombs all episode. That sounded weird. And, you know, it... Nope. Yeah, I'm not gonna say that again. That's crazy. Welcome to the podcast today. My name is Charles. And my name is Michael. And today we are talking about life, leadership. We are talking about the lids that some of us have in our lives because of the people we're surrounded by. So I just want to let you know, if you're watching this, wherever you're watching this, today's episode is for you. Because all of us, our relationships are the thing that kind of defines some of the things that happen in our life. And actually, this is a continuation of another conversation we had that literally just kept going. So we made it into an episode two. We had to add a part two

because there was a lot more to say. And again, if you're just joining us, make sure you take a moment, like, subscribe, share it with a friend. But we're glad you're here. Also, let us know what you want to hear about. Our desire is that this will be a helpful tool in your life. And so let us know what you want to chat about. But before we jump in, you're just getting back. It was spring break week for the Todd Squad. Yes. How was the Todd Squad? Oh my goodness. I'm trying to find something. It was like a crash. And then it probably was like, we don't have no more kids. Thank you, Lord. We don't have no more kids. No, we went to a water park in Austin that's really, really awesome. It's called Kalahari. Todd's love a good water park. Brother, we get down at a water park. And this water park is an inside water park with an amusement park with a bowling alley with restaurants. Literally, we checked in and we did not have to leave until. And it feels like you're like somewhere for real. It's like

based off of an African theme and all that other stuff. But the funny part about this is this was the first day that they opened up the outside. Okay. Okay. Okay. And when we left Tulsa, we live in the Midwest. It was like 30 degrees. Oh, dang. When we got there, it was like 75. And so my kids felt the the raising temperature and thought it was summer. So we went to the outside park on the second day when it is 85 degrees like 88. So it's like, yeah, we can get in. Yeah. When I tell you that I took an ice bath in front of a whole like nobody was in the pool. Everybody's just around the pool. Yeah. And there's like that. We got to jump in. We got to jump in. We got to jump in and we're gonna all jump in together. Bro, I've never had an instant headache in

my body. Got a brain freeze when I I'm talking about frozen and I literally it was the worst experience of my life. And because the weather just heated up. It's been freezing. It's hot. The pool was still in winter. Nobody told the pool. The pool. Nobody told the pool. It was time. And bro, Natalie didn't get in. Only me. Bella and Ava got in and it was miserable but because we were trying to make it exciting, it was like This is so much fun. And we had to get out. So we went to the indoor park and it was phenomenal. We had a great time. Chlorine coma. So what about y'all? Well, y'all, your kids are homeschooled. Yes. So, you know, spring break is every two days. It was great. We actually did let them they have three days that they go and so we did do those. I had the amazing activity of hanging up a tree swing. So I was had a very janky ladder leap. leaned up against a tree, climbed it up.

Nope, nope, nope. Leaned up against a tree, and it was like, you know in Oklahoma we can rambly have like 30 mile per hour winds. Completely. So Arlo's like, you got it dad, and I'm like up there trying to. But we got the tree swing hung, and every morning at like 6 a.m. they're like, can we go in the front yard on the tree swing? Oh, that's awesome. So anyways, it was great though. Yeah man, this is a good time. I think one of the reasons we share this, and most of our how's this week going situations have to do with our family, is because that's the thing that we're building that will last. 100%. And I just want to encourage somebody that's watching this podcast, if we would have done this 10 years ago, it probably wouldn't have been like that. Like if I was doing a podcast at Pastor Mike just starting out, it would have been very ambitious trying to create something that made other people feel like I was winning. I think the big thing of my life, our life, what we are striving for, is that we want to win where it really matters.

That's great. And I think part of this perfection idea is killing us winning where it really matters, because where you should be winning, nobody really sees it. Yeah. Like nobody, I told you that story, but where I won jumping into the pool was the trust with my daughter, Bella. Yeah. Like that later on that day, she was like, I just love that you do stuff like that. Like my 12 year old, in a moment where we weren't talking about anything, basically affirmed like, this is why I love that you're my dad. I won, it wasn't Instagrammable, it wasn't even shareable for real, but it was like a win that I couldn't even set out to do. Intentionally, it was something that was a gift because of my direction and decision. And so I don't know who's watching this and where you're at, but I just pray that part of this podcast that is forming into whatever it's going to be, because the whole idea is progression. We decided to start this off of a word, but not plan it in such a rigorous way. Rigorous, that one almost, whop, whop, whop.

That word was like, nope. Not to plan it in such a rigorous way that we took out the authenticity. There's just a lot of podcasts that are going right now that everybody's trying to say the right thing. Because they're trying to prove something to themselves and to others so that they look like they're winning. If there's four people watching this or 4 million people watching this, I think the anointing is on the authenticity. And so, I don't know, I just want people to know what you're watching right now. You're watching real life. People who are leaders, people who have a lot of responsibility, people who love God, people who are trying to figure it out, trying to have successful, healthy marriages, trying to make sure that we're heroes in our home. But make sure that God is pleased because he knows there's nobody competing with him. So yeah, that's kind of like an underbelly of what this podcast is about. Being open enough to say we are not perfect, never will be, we serve the perfect one, and we're trying to be like him, but we already know it's built in, that in this human nature, this skin, we won't be that. But it's being around the right people

that really help you find comfort in that, find comfort in your skin. And so I'm just excited to be having this conversation with you today, and I think it's gonna help a lot of people. It's gonna be great. You saying that, it's a great transition. We had some people for dinner the other night, and some of our friends, shout out to Danny and Mariah, they moved here from out of town to come to this church, and one of the things she said specifically, she was like, I felt like I could always tell from watching online and from far away, she specifically mentioned you and Pastor Nat, she said that their family was the most important thing, and that's what drew me. Literally, part of why they moved was just that authenticity of not the stuff on platform, it was all the stuff off the platform that they perceived, that they felt like actually validated all the other things. And so I think that's the beautiful model. I don't know, I've gleaned that from you, like really living in a way where it's like, this is the most important thing. And that goes into our idea today, because we're continuing the conversation about friends, about relationships. But today we're talking about friends for the fire. My God. Because everybody, here's the idea.

Everybody wants friends for the highlight, but it's a different thing to have a friend for the fight. And those are two very different things. It's easy to present like, oh, we're all winning, we're all together, we're all on the mountaintop. But there's something different you figure out once you start actually going through life, going through losing. Everybody's not. your team, everybody's not calling you back, everybody's not, and I'm just excited to talk about this because I think so many people, what we want is friends in front of everybody, but what we need is friends when it's difficult, when we don't have answers, when we're not at our best, and I know it's been such a truth and reality for our friendship, for our church, and so I'm excited about this idea. Yeah, I think the big thing is if you're going to last, there will always be seasons that don't feel like a mountaintop. God literally promises valleys. Yeah. And nobody talks about them. Yeah. And this is where most people lose. Yeah. You ever heard of a one-hit wonder? Yes, yeah. Like, I think there are more one-hit wonders spiritually than there are even in music. Like, oh, you remember that guy who did, or you remember that person who killed at that conference, or do you remember that leader who da-da-da-da, and then like right now? Yeah. You don't know where they're at, what happened. It's something tragic that happened. It's because usually they have not figured out victory in the valley. Yeah. And one of the key components to having victory in the valley is who's in the valley with you. That's so good, yeah. Like, a lot of people go to the valley alone. Yeah. And when they go to the valley alone, it is not good for you to be in a valley by yourself. No. But you cannot usually find the people in the valley, because everybody has to be traveling together, and we end up in the valley. Yes. And this is why friendship is so important. This is why your relationships are so important, because

everybody loves you when it seems like everything's good. Yeah, 100%. But most people do not invest relationally to be able to have the relationships that somebody will follow you into a valley. Who's the last person you followed or went with into a valley? That's so real. And if you have never been in a valley with somebody for real, not like, oh, that's sad that they're going through that, or praying for you. No, I'm talking about in it with them. Yeah. You may not have the type of relationships that you actually need to be successful over longevity. Yeah. And God has blessed me, and blessed you, and blessed those, a lot of us in this community, with friends that are built for the fire and the fight. Yeah. Like, I don't know about you, but like, if it's time to fight, there's certain friends you want with you, and other friends that you would be like, no, we'll tell you about the story, but like, I don't want you. And that really doesn't have to do with size. Like, I'm talking about physically. It has to do with tenacity. That's the truth. It has to do with loyalty. It has to do with people who know how to protect your weaknesses. Yeah, that's good. And I think that part of what God has allowed me to value, which, if I'm honest, was not a value early on in my life. Okay, yeah. Let me just, like, I, I mean, going through, my relational arc coming out of high school, into the college age, young adult, was more transactional. Yeah. It was like, hey, whatever you got from me right now, we can act like we friends, but until, but like, I'm only here for what I'm getting out of this. Yeah. It wasn't until I met my wife that her relational capacity is way smaller than mine. Like, she doesn't want to meet a lot of people. Yeah. She doesn't want to have a small talk with her. She wants a few intimate close, and they can be the same forever. Forever. Like, no, no, no, like, like, they can be the same forever. And I was like, that's whack. Like, I want to, like, let's switch it up. Let's shuffle the deck. Let's, let's, and, and it wasn't until I watched how intentional she was with certain relationships and friendships and how she cared about certain stuff. I was like, I have never cared about that type of thing for anybody else outside of myself or you. Yeah. Yeah. And when I started to read in the Bible where there were

relationships that Jonathan literally gave up basically his position in the kingdom for David. Yeah. There are so many people who walked with each other, that talked with each other, how Jesus at his moment of literally dealing with his flesh and his calling and his purpose in the garden, like, asked three dudes to like, be there with him. Like, I'm just thinking about this and I'm like, if our rabbi, if our savior had the 500, the 70, the 12, and then the three. Yeah. I might need to figure out why this modeling is important. Absolutely. And man, God really allowed me to start valuing something that I didn't at first. Yeah, but I thank God for transformation in the mind. Yeah, because God sees your future and there may be somebody watching this right now That doesn't value relationships at that level And I want to let you know that this next season may not be about more friends It may be more about better friendships. Yeah, it may not be about something That's why but something that goes deep Yeah and I found out that this last decade and a half of my life has been more defined by the Relationships that were deep in my life than the ones that were, you know surface name-based like I know you I got your cell phone Yeah, like I'm not gonna call you. Yeah, and you're not gonna call me Like yeah, and I just think that people need friends. Everybody needs friends for the fight and friends for the fight Yeah, there's a there's a portion of scripture So funny to me where Paul he's about to go on another journey and he has John Mark with him and he literally him and another friend get in an argument cuz he's like John Mark ain't coming John Mark is weak like How we get Paul and Silas is because Silas is the replacement for John Margo He was and I think it's so interesting because the idea is Paul knew he was about to go get into some trouble Yes, sir. It was some good trouble. It was the right type of trouble. It was I'm going to spread this gospel They're gonna be throwing us in prison And if I'm going somewhere I gotta have people not just for where I am but for where I'm going come on Well, I think that's where everybody has to realize number one do you have friendships that are built for the fight and for the fire and then you need to make the Clear delineation that all your friends that ended up in your circle aren't built for it. Yes. Oh good

Yeah, like they're there is it's okay with relational seasons with relational transitions Yeah, and some people I just know that they call loyalty People really need to understand the the mindset and a thought process of loyalty because for some people it's holding them back. Mm-hmm Yeah, the type of relationships that I've needed They didn't I had to cultivate them. They didn't just always show up Yeah, and I think a lot of people like in that story like you might have to be like, yeah John Mark, I'm so sorry But like and you could put in a name Whatever like I'm so sorry. Yeah, you're not built for this transition. I have to make from poverty to abundance That's so good. Yeah, you're not built Yeah for going from this pessimistic attitude that we used to live and we used to that's how we used to relate That's how we connect. That's how we connected like the world is against me to this optimistic faith-filled outlook that I'm going for I'm sorry that you're not ready to let go of our toxic bonds Yeah to develop healthy habits Yeah, and a lot of people waste a lot of time trying to drag people who did not sign up to go on that journey With you, that's really good. And it's easy to almost demonize and tell them and it's like they ain't doing nothing different This is the same thing. This is like you've changed you've grown and that's a beautiful thing And you should embrace that and and go with passion, but it's like ain't nothing wrong with him They were always that way now you're decided move like man ain't got no it's like no, no, no, it's okay I always like to think about that that sometimes the frustration I have at other friends is I am that friend in somebody else's life Yeah, so it's like I have to realize like there are some friends that I thought that maybe they thought we were gonna be close Forever and then I wasn't there how they thought I was gonna be and so in the same way I may experience that in My life, but I'm always gonna have the right people when I need them and just embracing that and realizing where I'm going It's good. It might make my group a little bit smaller So what's okay what this reminds me of is this picture that I saw of a caterpillar and an ant being friends And what ends up happening is a caterpillar and an ant can go everywhere together while the caterpillar is in a certain form That's so good. And at the moment the caterpillar goes into a cocoon that means separation and comes out with wings The ant and the caterpillar would have to make time to meet because where the caterpillar is now as a transformed person Doesn't hang out doesn't congregate doesn't move at the speed that that ant does anymore That's so good relationally for that butterfly to now hang out with the ant it would be denying its purpose

That's so good I think one of the things that all of us need to evaluate is Are we are we coming to a place where we are stopping ourself from flying? To keep a friendship that never could go higher than a certain level Wow, that's so good. And if if you are yeah, it may be time. Yeah to find some friends that fly Yeah, that's so good. It's well, it's it's I remember talking to you about like when you go through transitions There's so many natural transitions in life. And I think some people have difficulty navigating those So it's like you have certain friends that are built off of oh, we just homies and we hoop together Yeah, and then it's like once you start dating a girl or definitely when you get married, it's like I mean you change It's like bro that bro stop Those conversations always got me used to be around used to first of all I am married Get out of my way. I'm saying it Well the thing is I think this is a valid conversation Yeah, because relationally a lot of people take up space in people's lives that make them feel secure And so when relational Positions change. Yeah, it's it's an insecurity that forms. Yeah, that's good. Yeah Every man that takes on a wife. This is your primary relationship now Yeah, not your mother. Yeah, not your boss. Not your bros. Not your partners not in Your wife. Yeah, the person that you should be willing to sacrifice for and I'm talking from the males perspective That is your primary relationship So Obviously, it takes more time more effort more energy more thought more compassion more forgiveness More every yes more money. Yeah, whatever like it should take more anything and just just a side note If it's not taking those things, you may need to reevaluate your relationships. Absolutely like yeah period The people who are my friends understand that yes, 100% They're not trying to pull me away from that. That's so dumb That means you're not my friend, yes Like you bro, you stood in my wedding. Yeah, and and and were a witness Yeah to me making watch this a vow before God to transform Wow, like that's what marriage is It's like whoever is standing there. Yeah, this is the last time you're gonna see him like this Yeah, cuz two shall become one. Yeah, what does that mean? There's half of y'all that gotta die

There's a For y'all to become one. Yeah, yeah half of both of y'all got to die and come into yeah And so again, I think but the insecurity of well, what does that mean for us? What does that mean for what we had? Yeah, it doesn't have to be villainized if it's different. That's good Yeah, or I can say it doesn't have to be demonized if it's different. Yeah, it's good. We can still be great friends without Negating the last season But being open to what this season absolutely looks like yeah, and the friendships that have lasted in my life Have been ones that have been able to transition with the season That's really good that never were trying to pull me back somewhere, but we're trying to figure out What does it look like forward? Yeah, and that means forward that means for the fight the fire or the the the Part of it that looks like we're winning everything Yeah, and I think that that's where most people back out when their friendship cost them something very good Yeah, and a lot of people want friendships that do not cost anything. Yeah, this should be easy. This should be simple They just get me. Yeah, no those type of Friendships are ready to blow over at any moment absolutely, but when you have a friendship that you gotta communicate Hey has something changed Hey, I was feeling this hey. This is this is my perception the story. I'm telling myself Yeah, and then have those conversation, but do you know what I found out Charles? Well most friends don't actually talk about real stuff not at all like I'm talking about between them Yes, they'll talk about real stuff with everybody else, but most friends. It's true. Do not in your circle Yeah, don't they're not hot. They're not humble open and transparent and what we're trying to bring to you right now We need to get a story or something to let them know what we're trying to bring to you right now Is that if you were gonna progress in relationships that last longer than one season? Yeah, you're going to have to be humble open and transparent There have been times where I've told you like hey, bro. I don't got it right. Yeah Like yeah, you were looking for leadership advice or something or it's like hey, man You need to read a book

I'll be right for you, but I don't and that was never held against me Yeah, and most people would never say that because like well, he's following me He's like I'm gonna need to be did it but the unique thing about our relationship. I'm your leader, but we're also friends Absolutely, which is a beautiful transition that we have here that a lot of places. I have not seen before Oh, yeah, it's true the level of Hierarchy if you will yeah, but the also level of real relationship Which is unique and I I really want everybody to have that like Brie and me Have been friends for almost two decades. Yeah, and like she started out as a youth Volunteer youth leader and so fly sold out free life youth. That was our youth group check check on us because we was we was dope Anyway, um, but our relationship has transitioned I mean, we probably have five or six relationship lanes. Yes, like I'm our pastor. We're also partners in ministry I'm She's my, her and her husband are my kids, godparents, and also, she's like my sister. And I will clown her to filth, like in, like, I will. You remember when we was talking about her, her nikes? Wait, what? Oh, we got different stories? Nah, Brie gon' see this and beat it up. Brie, you know, there should be the evil laugh. Yeah, that is hilarious. No, remember when they had those, she had those, like, Nike Blazers? Oh! We're not even gonna tell the story, cause we're good enough friends that you, she would have to be in the room for us to tell the story. Yeah, we will have her on and we'll duke it out there. But again, I'm saying that we're able to have those relational lanes also

and keep the respect, dignity, and the partnership. The only way that happens is through hot communication. 100%. There have been times where, hey, I felt like that was disrespectful for how and the setting and da-da-da-da. And there's other been times where, like, hey, is everything good? Like, are you, you know? Yeah, 100%. And how do you do that, though? Like, how have we done that? Like, I've never really talked about that. No, it's so true. But I just never wanna do life and ministry with people I don't like. Yeah. Like, that's a starting place. That's a starting place. Also, and everybody's not going to have that level of relationship with everybody. But how do you get to the three that were with Jesus in the garden? That's so real. How do you go from the big group to, like, yeah, we eat together, you've seen the miracles, but I need you, too. Because, like, I'm, how do we get to that? 100%. Well, I think it starts off,

this is what I wanted to talk about, is, like, it starts off with an awareness of who you are and how you're wired naturally. Come on. Like, I wanted to talk about that a little bit because I think some people are naturally fighters and some people are just naturally not. Like, you know what I'm saying? And I think it's an important thing to realize that. Like, I think me and you are probably similar in that we're naturally, literally, earlier we were getting ready for the pod and they asked me, like, hey, could you say, and I was like, why? What do you mean? And I was like, pop, pop, pop. I was like, we immediately both just started, like. But I'd say some people have a natural personality bend towards that. My wife, Abby, she's naturally just kind. And, like, it's like, there's no reason for us to be fighting. But I think it's important, that awareness, because if not, you're assigning labels to people that it's just like, that's just not their mode. And I think one thing I've realized in my friendships is I realize who is who. Like, so if I'm going into a fight mode, I got three phone numbers and I'm calling. You're one of those calls.

Like, you know what I'm saying? And so I think the first thing it starts if you're trying to develop those is an awareness of yourself and then an awareness through of who other people are. And that only comes through the honest conversation. And I think that awareness, it needs space for time. Like, me and you, we've now been friends for 10 years, but it took us years to figure out how do you operate and who are you and what are you like? And I think that you can't supersede that time. You know, I think there's stuff that supernaturally, like, I think in our relationship, there was obviously something that was like, God's clearly doing something here. But we also had to put in the work of just that first trip we took to Dallas, where it was just, we were just in Dallas, just hanging out, like- In the same room. In the same room. Like, we didn't even know each other. Not at all. But again, I think this comes to the point where real friendship takes risk. That's very good. Like, if you're going to, I mean, we told you a little bit of the story in one of the other episodes about my first conversation with you and asking,

like, you wanna be like the Golden State Warriors? It's like, this is whack. But it takes risk. And the risk never goes away, it just changes. That's very good. Relational risk is a part of deep relationship. That's so good. Let me say it one more time. Relational risk is a part of deep relationship. Jesus risks being seen in a vulnerable situation by taking those three with him to the Garden of Gethsemane. It was a relational risk. That's good. They could have literally taken back, like, y'all, we saw Jesus, and y'all know he'd be talking in power and stuff, but he was sweating blood, y'all. No, I promise, blood. He was crying. He was crying, bro. Like, he was like, he couldn't even get his words out. Bro, he couldn't even catch his breath. Like, they could have used that moment against him to discredit his actual purpose. But they were there, I think, to be able to show us a picture of what it looks like to be with somebody, watch this, even if you don't know how to do it right. They didn't do it right.

Yeah, that's true. They fell asleep. The only thing, like, as friends, we just stay up with it. Just stay awake. And they fell asleep multiple times. And he had to come correct them. But what if this was the perfect picture of progression, but not perfection in friendship? That's so good, yeah. What if this is the perfect picture of if God, In the flesh, his three best friends on the earth couldn't do everything right, but they stayed? What if that's the definition of godly friendship built for the fire, built for the fire? That's so good. Well, I think even in our relationship and our friendship, there are so many moments where, on both ends, where it's like, I don't necessarily know what to do to fix this because I can't or because it's out of my control, but it's like, I can just be here. I'm here. And I can just, I can be around, I can be, there's so many moments where I've seen just the power of presence, of just, I can just be here for you. And just the fact that you know you could call me, the fact that you know that I'll be there to help you if you need it, the fact that you know, like,

I really texted you yesterday, like, yo, can I wear this watch? Like, it was just a random, like, thing. And in my mind, I'm thinking, like, why are you, yes, like, what are we talking about? But again, that goes from fashion to fires. It's true. It's true. And everything in between. There's been Sundays where I'm whooped and you see it and you're like, hey, we got four kids, we'll take two of your kids. And like, tell Bella and Ava, see if they wanna come with us. And y'all will take them for hours. But that's not just, that's being sensitive to somebody else's needs that you love. That's so good. And just as two men, let me just go here, that literally are in leadership and love their families, love their wives. You don't see this type of relationship where it taps into the feelings of the person if it's not anger. Because I wanted to make very clear that the fight is not just the fight against an enemy. Sometimes it's the fight to remember who you are. It's the fight to have mental clarity. It's like you need friends for the fight to be able to hold on to the little bit of hope

and faith that you have. Doing this church, brother, this is not easy. Not at all. And you probably know more than a lot of people what it looks like behind the scenes, stuff that nobody could take. If they knew some of the stuff that we have to deal with right before going to speak, it's like how in the world, or right after? But the truth of the matter is like, we were built for this fight. We were built for this type of fight. And sometimes, I remember a few months ago, I was going through some stuff and we were sermon prepping in the back and I had some friends around me that was built for the fight. And I cried annually. Like once a year I cried. Like that's- I have a list in my phone, no I don't. But I'm saying like, my wife and Marie definitely has a list. Like she records every time over 20 years how many times I cry. It's not my natural mode of expression. It's not a bad thing to me. It just hasn't been tapped in. This year I've cried four times. And it's not even-

You set the world record. Four, we're not even past the first quarter. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was in there sermon prepping, everybody come in, yeah, this message is gonna be great, da-da-da-da. And I just started crying. And I just started telling y'all what was going on and how I felt about it. And all this other stuff. And in that moment, nobody had any profound prophecy. Yeah, no. Everybody just had presence and prayer. Yeah. The thing that changed me, I had to still go preach. I had to, nobody knows. The people, oh, that was the most amazing message. God, oh my God. Nobody knows. On our staff, on our team, they don't know what Sunday this was. They don't know. But the people who were in that fight with me to remember that God calls people and doesn't take away the adversity in their lives, that he will present you as his oracle for a moment, but you gotta still deal with the opposition.

I was thankful in that moment for the men of God that were in that room and the sensitivity to the people around to not bring anybody else in. Because usually we have people running in and out, asking questions. And I had somebody that was like, nope, this is a moment where, and I just thank God for that because I don't know who I would be and how I would be and how I would have to hide if I didn't have friends that I could be vulnerable with. And that's my fear, Charles, is there are many people in high leadership positions, and I'm not just talking about in front of people, just as parents, that they're having to hide how they're actually feeling, coping, and what. they're doing to get through it. Because they don't have real friends for the fire. That's so real. And real friends for the fight. Yeah. And I used to have friends that I had to tell edited versions of what was going on. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, 100%. Y'all know what I'm talking about. Everybody know.

Like, how are you and such and such? Oh, we good, going through a few things, but who doesn't? And then there's other friends you can go into, they're like, what's up? And you don't even ask them, and be like, me and that fight. Yep. So I'm just telling you right now, I'm telling you right now, before she come in here, the tension you feel is us. Like. Bro, I just, I have to acknowledge, because I think I'm always so like, in a beautiful way, like, astounded at some different friendships that I have. Because our friendships like that, like, I remember so many times where each one of us different couples were in full arguments on the date night. On the date night, we're all together. We're all together, and it's just two of them just going out. And we're like, people are jumping in, like, okay, well now you can't. Hey, hey, hey. Hold on. Don't say, nope. You can't say that. And they're like, well, they are right on that one. But it's beautiful, because it's that hiding thing.

We were never meant to hide. You cannot, I can't help but connect that the first response to our sin in the biblical story is to run and hide. Boy, you better talk that talk. We make a mistake. God says, hey, don't touch this tree, don't do that. And the Bible says that God shows up looking for Adam and Eve, and they were hiding. And it's that feeling of shame in this smallness that retreats from who we really are, and the proud, and the approaching the throne boldly that we slowly run back and hide. And there's something about having friends that you don't have to hide with. And the first thing I would say, one of the things I would say to anybody is, because when you were talking, I was thinking about it, is if you wanna have friends that you don't have to hide with, you have to be a friend where people don't have to hide with you. And I think, I remember, I think one of the, and I don't know where it came from. Part of it was spiritual. Maybe part of it was just a desire. But I think our whole friendship, there was a desire that is just like, if I can't do anything else, like I think I can help you build this ministry,

and I can preach, and I can do all these things. But there was a desire that it's like, I just want him to know, like he can just tell me, and I'm gonna be here. And I say that because any moment that we've had like that, I count it, it's like the scripture, there's a scripture where it says that Mary took these and she hid these things in her heart. And it's like this beautiful value that actually adds to a relationship that doesn't subtract. Some people see that and it's like, oh my gosh, well, they're not as strong as I thought they were or whatever. And to me, it's like, oh my gosh, like I remember, and you know me, I'm the opposite, I'll cry for no reason. But to me, watching you preach knowing you had just cried before was even more like, see, people will never know. And it's like even more beautiful. And so I think that's something that I carry strongly even in sitting here in the context of our relationship is you gotta be that person. You gotta be someone who will show up and say, hey, I'm not gonna change anything. And you're still the leader, God's still called you. And even nine times out of 10 on a Sunday, right when I see you about to go, I'll run over there, just give you a hug,

saying God's with you and I'm with you. And that's just, I think being that person, it's really what God has been for all of us. And it's a beautiful thing to be able to do that. When has been a time that you have experienced somebody showing up in a time where you might have not been expecting it, but you really needed it? Ooh, there's so many. And I wanna think of, there's a story I always tell, which is, I think I've told it on here partially, but I'll think of two. There's one specifically when I was dealing with severe anxiety, depression, and you, Pastor Nat, Bree, Aaron, and all four of your kids, which they were asleep on my couch, but they showed up at the middle of the night. It was one in the morning. I was having a panic attack. I couldn't get it together. And Abby called y'all and was like, hey, Charles is not okay. And I don't know what to do. And I'll never forget, I kind of wake up and I hear y'all before I open my eyes and just immediately I feel your hand on my shoulder and you just say, Charles, we're all here. And it was so strange, but that moment really shifted something in me

because I think the first feeling I had was shame, not gratitude. Because I was embarrassed because I felt like, oh my gosh, they're not gonna think I'm as strong as I want them to think. And these are my best friends, but there's still a part of me that wants you to think, like, Charles is good. I got it all together. I got it all together. Perfection. Exactly, it really is. And I'm sitting there and it's just the weakest I felt because I felt like I can't get, usually I felt like my strength and grit and tenacity could get me through something. And it felt like I could not get my mental health together. I can't control this. I don't have the answers. My talent can't help me. None of this helps me. And y'all were all in there. And one of the most impactful things, it was funny, like two days ago, I was explaining this to the kids. So that night, you're all there, two in the morning, and y'all just sat with me. You sat. talked, prayed, but the very end, I think it was Natalie who said to do this,

she was like, what we're gonna do is we're all gonna get these little yellow, it was like a yellow piece of paper. The sticky notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And y'all all wrote just random encouragements on there. You're a great husband, you're a good man, I'm proud to be your friend, you got this. Silly stuff, whatever, just, and it was probably, I mean it felt like 200 little pieces of paper, and y'all stuck them all over my house and ran those in my closet, in the fridge, next to my bed. And literally a couple days ago, what Abby did when we moved from the house, and she took all of them, she put them in a frame, and they're sitting up right in my bathroom. And the other day, Luna, she was like, dad, what is that? And I was like, baby, that is like a sign of all of our best friends who love us. And I told her the story, I was like, daddy was not doing okay. And Uncle Mike and Aunt Nat and Aunt Bree and Uncle Aaron, they all came over to our house and they wrote me these letters to remind me of who I am, and remind me of who God is in our life. And man, that moment, showing up in that way, because too, I think too, part of my story is we moved around a lot.

Met Cass early on in our, so I had a lot of friends very wide, but not very deep. It was like, we're all cool, but my protection mechanism was, I'm probably gonna move, so I don't wanna get too close. And it goes back to that risk we were talking about, because if I let you too close, now you know and now you see. And that moment specifically in my life, y'all showing up, it let me know, you ain't gotta hide, man. There are people who, even after you show them, will still, and I remember, because my biggest fear was, oh, I'm not gonna be able to lead anymore, I won't be able to preach anymore, and it'll be like, hey, Charles really can't handle it, and so let's just kind of take his responsibility. And there was an intentional season where you had the wisdom and Bree and my friends knew, like, hey, you've gotta get yourself together, so we're gonna step back. But once I was back, it was like, all right, bet, here you go, we still trust you. Yeah, that moment for me was a life-transforming moment. I wanna ask you, I think- Hold on, hold on, we can't move past that. I'm about to cry for the fifth time, bro. No, seriously, hearing that, and let me just say, that night when we were asleep,

because everybody was in bed, and Abby called, it wasn't something that was like, okay, let's do this right. I'd never had a friend or somebody I loved call with that type of need, so I didn't know what to do. So I wanna tell the other side of it. That's good, yeah, I've never heard your side of the story. Well, my side of the story is Abby calls us crying, and she's like, I need help. You were in the background, she was trying to tend to you, and she's like, I just don't know what to do. And I was like, my literal first responses were on the way. It didn't feel like, as a friend, I could be who I needed to be in that moment away from you. I needed to be as close as possible, which talks to me about the God nature in us. That if we were created in his image and likeness, when we don't know what to do, what comes up naturally usually points to something that God put in us. And so in a moment where most people would be like, ah, don't, ah, let me know, tell the other side. It was like, when I didn't know, it was like, well, we gotta be as close as possible. And I think, relationally, that's how God feels. When you're anxious, I wanna be as close as possible. When you're scared, I wanna be as close as possible. When you have no idea what to do, I wanna be as close as possible. And I thank God for that moment

because I literally woken that up, we gathered all the kids, and we were there in record time. Like, while we were doing that, called Bree and Aaron, we were all there, we pulled up at the same time. And the first thing was like, what do we know to do? And what we know to do is speak life. So a real friend doesn't just show up. A real friend speaks the truth. Like, no matter what I'm seeing right now, I'm gonna say what I know. What I know is this man is called. What I know is my brother is needing a touch from God. What I know is that this won't define him. Like, and we just started speaking the truth. And I watched how the most beautiful part of this that you wouldn't know is I watched how what was on you was trying to get on your wife. The anxiety of that moment was trying not to just take you out. It was trying to take Abby out. And it was us coming in. I watched. I watched Abby go from completely inflated, trying to figure it out and just be there, to praying in the corner and just rubbing your head and rubbing your arm. And it was like, oh, friendships are not just for who you think they're for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. It's for everybody attached to them.

Yeah, 100%. Your mom and dad and your brother and all the people who love you couldn't physically be there in that moment because they lived it. But God had sent a friend, sent friends into that moment. And so I just think about like, if you are trying to be that type of friend, two things that come to my heart is that you don't have to know what to do. Very good. Do what you know. I think that moment right there, let me know everything I need to know about friendship. Well, I don't know whether to call. Do you feel like you need to call? Call. Like, well, I can't do, send it, send the money, send the voice note, like just, you don't have to know what to do, do what you know. That's so good. And there are people listening to this right now that you know there's something that you're supposed to do for somebody that's close to you. Write the letter, send the voice note, call them, ask them to go to, like, you have no idea how God wants to use that. The second thing that I'm gonna say is that don't come into situations

where your friends need you in the fight and automatically try to fix it. Very good, yeah. I think that when you get into those moments, like, okay, I'm the friend, da-da-da-da, I'm here, like, here we go, been preparing for this. No, like, it's not that at all. It's like, hey, I'm the friend that's here. And that's why my first phrase when I saw you is like, we're all here. Because whatever's about to happen, I didn't know if you was about to start fighting, I didn't know if we had to cast out demons. No, you gotta think, like, I have no idea. Ladies and gentlemen, we got him. I didn't know if we was, I didn't know if we was about to have to, like. But it was really about whatever's coming, we here. That's why the Bible tells us that two are better than one. Because when we can get back to back and fight whatever's coming, this is gonna be a better situation for everybody. And in that moment, all we needed to do was be there, be present. We needed to speak the truth. And then we needed to pray. And when we started to pray, it was like something opened up in that house and God met us there.

It solidified our friendship forever. Oh, 100%. Like, that's the other thing that people discount is that the fire in the fight is just so you can survive. Many times the fire in the fight is to actually solidify. I don't know about you, but the people that I'm in relationship for a long time, we've been through some stuff. Yes, 100%. Like, and maybe you're not in that phase yet of your relationship, but if that relationship is going to last, there's just some stuff that's like, no, after this, ain't no going back. Like, you got to die to not, you know what I'm saying? And that was one of those moments where it was like, oh yeah, like. Well, the thing I just thought of is moments like that when everybody decides to lean in, is it anchors you to know, I don't know what I'm going to go through next, but I know if I'm going to go through anything, we might as well go through it together. Come on, bro. That would like, that's even a conversation me and you have right now. And one of the things you brought up was like, man, if we go do it, we might as well try to figure out with each other. Like, we got too much skin in the game.

We've done too much work. And that's the beautiful thing you got to know is like when you invest in relationships, when you put your life in the middle of that fire with them, it builds something that is something you can build on for a long time. Yeah, bro. It's something you can go to life with. And I just think it's a beautiful thing. I think one thing I want to say and even ask about you is I think there's something particularly risky about when you find yourself in the leader position. And whether that's you're the parent and your kids are around, whether that you're the leader at the job, maybe in the friend circle, you're kind of the person that everybody follows. Specifically in this context, you are the leader of our church. And so you wear the friend hat, the brother hat, but ultimately you're the boss and you're the pastor and the shepherd of this whole thing. And I think one of the things I've seen you do, and I've even watched you as a friend grow into it more and more frequent is the vulnerability and the risk of that. And I think all the way back to your old office up there with our old exec team was one of the first really big moments I think I saw you do that.

But how have you learned to do that? Maybe there are people who are watching that are a boss, a leader, a pastor, a parent, and they kind of feel, I would imagine the pressure is, well, I got to keep it together because they all kind of depend on me. And so if I fall apart, are they gonna, but I've seen you do that in such a brave way, but how have you, you haven't always been that way. How have you gotten to that? And what would you tell people? how to do that? I didn't want to be what I saw. I saw a lot of people in ministry do all of the things that check off success in ministry and die lonely, only have friends that are around them for ministry, and became okay with it. Like, I saw people only care about success in the church world, or the business world, or whatever world they're in. Their life was defined by that, and those people weren't happy. I know tons of pastors that I don't know if they like their wife. I don't know if they're in love with their wife, and I don't know if there's any passion there. I don't know if they even like each other. I was like, I don't want, I don't, I mean, I don't think I've ever told this story, but when I was in the battle with God, whether I was going to become a pastor, like that infamous, like, we're wrestling. I was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and we were staying at a Best Western hotel, and we were at a Fathers and Sons conference with Bishop McIntosh, and I was like, I got a daddy. Like, you know what I'm saying? It was like a weird kind of like moment, like, and, but I think he had already known that he wanted to transition the church to me, and I was kind of like, ah, I'm not, that is not me, bro. And God woke me up in the middle of the night and said, this is what I want to do. I want to use you as a template to call those who are called to ministry, who don't feel like they're called to ministry, to be able to give them a guiding light of what this looks like, and I need you to say yes. And I'm out of my, like, I need you to say yes. That's, bro, that's, that's some scary, scary, scary stuff. I'm like,

okay, I guess. So I can put myself through. Yes, like, um, but I got out of the bed, Nat's sleeping in the bed, and I get on my knees, and I'm literally there, and I say, God, the first thing out of my mind, I'll do it. I just don't want to lose my family. Now, that was, that was my reaction to what I had seen in ministry, and I'm not saying that people necessarily lost their family physically, but they lost their family, like kids, no respect for them, wife, like, and I was like, I want to do this, but I won't. And so what God did for me is he, he, he honored my prayer by letting me never think that my position was greater than the person. Like, my person has to be greater than any position that I take. Yeah. So I can't value how I look to people more than I value how I actually feel on the inside. Yeah. And that's what's allowed me to be vulnerable, because it's like, hey, um, I'm hurting. Yes. Or hey, I'm mad. Or hey, um, and most people don't have the permission to even have those feelings. Yeah. And if you don't have the permission to have those feelings with friends and a safe space, you shouldn't have those, those in all spaces. And I think people mess up right there. They try to take things. I'm just being honest. It's like, Hey, you're being honest to the people who emotionally can't handle that or aren't even for you. Yes. Like you're, why are you on Instagram telling everybody about you and your baby daddy? Like that doesn't even make that, that doesn't make sense. Like, you know, it's ammunition instead of, um, something that protects you. And it has been work because the greater the influence impact and potential loss of whatever, it makes you feel like you want to protect more. But I keep remembering like, I may do this for 10, 15 more years and then I'm gonna have to live the rest of my life with who I am. That's so good. That's so real. And most people, when they get done doing the thing, they think God called them to do. They're not the person that God called them to be. And I just decided I'm going to be who he called me to be the whole time. Yeah. And that's why some people love me or hate me. I'm being fully me. Yeah. And the beautiful thing, Pastor Steven Furtick told me this, he's like, you know what the thing I love about you. It's like what um he said you're a hundred percent who you are Every time I see you Mmm, and he was like and I like that because if God ever changes it you're open to it And you'll be a hundred percent that I was like, okay, you don't say but at that moment I didn't understand it, but I get it now. Yeah, that's why I'm a friend built for fire

Yeah One of the cool things and we didn't really talk about it on this episode because we've been just talking about us But God has called me to stand in fires with people who other people Would not come close to when the fire started. Yeah I'm anointed for it. You are I'm I'm built for it. I Feel like it's what Jesus did. I feel like it's the model. He's teaching us I also think that it comes with its own Sacrifice. Yeah, and I'm grateful like that part of my life legacy will be that I Ate dinner as that key is this house? Like I went to the people that other people was like this that yeah and church people are so scared Of Interacting with people who don't believe like them because their faith is weak. Yeah, that's the truth The truth of the matter is you're not supposed to be we're not All the world like yes. Yeah, so What's a? Satan worshipping person gonna do to me. Yes, unless yeah, I'm I'm not as strong as I thought I was Yeah, and again, I'm not saying go play with stuff Randomly but if I feel called to somebody or something like I Should have enough Holy Spirit on the inside of me to go into that situation. Yes, and we're playing like a game without Interacting with the big like it's like anyway, I'm getting off Real man. I think that part of my legacy that I'm grateful for is that I'm a friend in fire Yeah, you won't meet in your corner if you going through absolutely like and you may not you may not have me because I don't know if I'm But I but if you ever had you ever had the opportunity had me as your friend Like no. Yeah, that's true. It's not I mean, you know, yeah, you know

Yeah, and there are people that everybody knows that don't know that don't know. Yeah how we have been. Yep the friend in the fire because I believe That's who Jesus is The one who says you can't rescue yourself from your own sin, so I'm gonna step out of heaven I'm gonna put on this flesh suit I'm gonna experience everything you went through and I'm gonna show you that I'm a friend that sticks closer than a brother yeah, do you know how deep that statement is a Friend that sticks closer than a brother. I have four brothers. Mm-hmm. We are like yeah Yeah, but God says through this statement that you can have a friendship that feels more authentic more resolute more loyal than that of Actual blood siblings. Yeah My question is are you that type of friend? And do you have that type of friend? Because my submission to be would be to you is that you need that type of friend 100% and you need to be that type Absolutely, man, this has been beautiful as we close it out I think I was hearing as you were talking about running to the fire and maybe we'll clip it up and add it in there But that I didn't use it but that the sermon that we preached when we did our our see I'm looking for a fire Looking for a fire. Yes, sir, but there's this epic Boxing match. Oh, we got to put it in. We got to put it in. We got a Steven Q the moment now The concentration weaves in a little bit Pick it up. Pick it up Don't pull straight out bend your knees and be strong on the inside go around Let's control the outside. Look the fire is coming. Are you ready for the fire? We're firemen. We are fireman. The heat doesn't bother us. We live in a we train me It tells us that we're ready. We're at a home where we're supposed to be flames don't intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame we control we move the place where we want to and then we extinguish

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I mean that is the most epic what are we talking about now? I'm like I could box anybody literally I could do it. But at the end of that he's like we are firemen Yeah, the flames don't intimidate us Yeah And I just think at our conference Kind of a sermon that I preached was the idea is Christians been so much of our life trying to escape our own fires, trying to run away from our fires, that we forget that we are firemen. Like, we have the Holy Spirit, the living water on the inside of us, and we're the ones who are supposed to run into the darkest places and the most broken places. And if the living water that we have doesn't put out fire, what kind of water is it? Like, if I can't run into dark situations with people that are confused and don't understand and are different than me, then what is this? And I just think I'm grateful that that is who we've decided to be, and encouraging anybody who's watching right now, you can make a decision to be that person. It's not like you have this special packaging that only God gives to special people. You can make a decision right now that I'm going to be a person who runs into fire. I'm going to be there. I don't know exactly what to do, but I'm going to be present, and God will empower you as you go. But we are firemen. We are firemen. We need to get some pop fireman shirts. And this is the thing. Let's make it very practical, because we want this to be practical. Some of you guys need to audit your friends. And somebody's like, audit, audit. This means you need to go through your circle, and you need to ask yourself these questions. Who shows up when it's inconvenient? Very good. Who? I mean, it may not be the person that's first on your call log, or you remember your fave five? It may not be that person, but when you're really going through, who shows up? And maybe you need to initiate deeper conversations. Like, I mean, how was the week? Okay. Like, hey, what has God been teaching you lately? That's a conversation where you're going to find out, are they going to be honest with you? Are they going to be hot? Like, another one. Hey, how did you get financially stable? Like, bro, we could go on a whole nother conversation about how our friendship led into learning. Like, how to deal with finances, how to avoid different things, how, oh, dang, we made the same mistake. Like, all of that stuff. And maybe somebody needs to invite honesty, not just affirmation. So maybe you don't just need a friend that like, oh, no,

yeah, that is the one for you. Like, no, he is a good one. Well, it's been 13 tries. Maybe there needs to be some honesty. Like, sis, I really think the guy you were with that broke your heart, you need to do some therapy with. Or bro, I don't know how to say this where you might not be offended, but as your friend, I think there's a little bit of pride that's keeping you from asking for the help you need. Like, that's the type of stuff that people really need. And it may be hard to swallow in the moment, but it saves lives. Progress isn't just about what you know. It's about who's with you when life gets hard. And some of us need to have crazy faith for friends. And if you know that you, I just want to, in this podcast, I don't think we've done it on any of them. I want to pray for you. I want to pray that God gives you the type of friends that aren't just like me and Charles, because you may not need that. Like, I want you to have friends for the fires that are up ahead of you. I want you to have friends for the family that you are going to have or that you do have. I want you to have friends that can help you handle the fame or the fortune. Like, we ain't even talk about that. There's some people that are friends with you when you ain't got nothing. But as soon as there's any type of upgrade, their ability to still see you and not your stuff disappears. You need friends that can handle any situations. And this is my encouragement to you. It won't be a lot of them. If you're looking for 30 best friends, I don't even understand how people have 30 best friends. I don't even want to even go down that conversation right now. But like, it may be my goal, my prayer is three. Mine is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Mine is Peter, James, and John. Mine is like, if Jesus took three people to his worst moment, mine is like, God, in this lifetime, would you just give me three people that could handle me at my most vulnerable and still ride with me when they're screaming, Hosanna. If I can have that, I was like my Savior. So if that's you and you want prayer, let me pray for you. Father, I just thank you. I thank you that you say in your word to actually have a friend. We have to show ourselves friendly. And I just thank you, Father, for starting this work on the inside of us. We have deep desire and a longing to have meaningful, lasting, substance-filled relationships that aren't our marriage or aren't our family, they're friends and God I thank you that you desire that for us and you know exactly where they are, who they are, where they're at and who we need to be to be the type of friend not just that receives from them but the type of friend that can be able to give beautiful moments of love and help and healing and Father thank you that you're doing

that on the inside of my brother and sister right now Father whatever this moment this podcast whatever this was supposed to spark up in them I thank you that it's happening right now and that we won't just be friends that have Father God what others need but you're sending us people that have what we need the wisdom the connection the the know-how the spirit I thank you Father that you are that good that you would not send us to this life to do it alone thank you for a godly circle full of faith full of fun and full of future I have your way in my brother and sister's life in Jesus name amen amen amen well listen we are that's pop that's for the day pop number four listen we're grateful thank you for joining us and as always like subscribe share it with somebody and do this why don't you send this to somebody who's been a friend for you in the fight that's tell them thank you that you're a real one and we love you hey listen until next time yeah I was hoping you had a saying or something uh um nope we'll see y'all we'll see y'all see you guys next time the next episode