Episode 049 || It's OK to Not Be OK

What's up, Pando family? Welcome back to another week of our Pando exclusive podcast. If it's your first time with us, welcome. With this type of format we do every week to talk about the sermon that one of our pastors preached on Sunday with the goal of helping apply the scripture that they used and the words that they spoke to your life had to help you follow Jesus. With me this week we have Matt who leads our recovery ministry here at Southeast and we have Brandon who is on the online team with me. My name is Derek and again, we're so glad that you're here. Fellas, we started a brand new sermon series this last weekend called, what do we call it, Flippant? Flippant, call it Flippant. I almost said to be attitudes which we're gonna talk about here in just a second but this idea of Flippant that there are kingdom values a part of Jesus's kingdom that are different in our world that we live in right now. And so for you guys talking about the Beatitudes, setting that up 'cause I'm sure for maybe a few people they're like, I don't even know what that means. And so let's kick it off. What are the Beatitudes? What are we gonna be talking about the sermon series? - Glad be. - Oh, okay, I'll go.

So the Beatitudes kick off the longest consecutive body of Jesus's teaching in the gospels, the Sermon on the Mount which is Matthew 5, 6, and 7. And I will just say like if you wanna spend a time in a portion of scripture that is gonna change everything like it's the Sermon on the Mount. It's listening to Jesus about these things. Like you could spend, I think there was a time when I preached through it and it was like nine months. Like you can just spend so much time in there thinking about like this is what Jesus, like this is what Jesus was about. This is what the Kingdom is about. And if I had to define the Beatitudes, that's what I would say. This is what the Kingdom is about. Because we start off Matthew's gospel back in, is it 419? No, I'm sorry, 417. Jesus began to preach repent of your sins and turn to God for the Kingdom of Heaven is near. Well, what is the Kingdom of Heaven? What does that mean? How do we get into it? How do we live in the Kingdom? What does it value? I think as Kyle said this past week. And so the Beatitudes begin the Sermon on the Mount by talking about that, right? The very first line in the Sermon on the Mount

is God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for him. For the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs. So Jesus is setting up like these are, I don't wanna say expectations 'cause it's not that. It's not like this is a to-do list to get into the Kingdom. This is what Jesus is saying I think throughout the Beatitudes is when you recognize the Kingdom of Heaven, when you realize who God is and what he wants for you. Like this is how you respond to it. And this is not so much how you live, but this is who you are, right? Like you realize like entering into the Kingdom begins with this idea of like I can't do it. I just can't do it. And like you said, he immediately in these Beatitudes he's gonna flip our conception of who the Kingdom is for, what it's about, what it means to live in it. - Yeah, yeah, I love him. I think the Beatitudes for me are like, I love Brandt, that's why I was beat ago first. (laughing) - He always sits up so well. - I don't know if I can spend nine months out of the Beatitudes, but-- - I'm still stuck on the fact that he spent nine months. - I don't think, you really can, I get it though, like 'cause there's so many different layers to what Jesus is doing here.

- Yeah, like if you preach the Beatitudes one a week, like that's two months, that's eight weeks. - Well, and I think two, we end up like, because one of the things I think we do is as we try, okay, we try to follow, we wanna follow God, right? We wanna do the right thing. Even if we engaged spirituality or relationship with God out of, I'm not sure what heaven is, heaven beats the hell out of hell, I don't wanna go there, so I'm in on this, you know? And so we try to break that down, right? I think our human brain, we want there to be like this, tell me what I gotta do, tell me what I gotta do to get in, I wanna make sure I do the do's, I wanna make sure I do the don'ts, and I think that's why we gravitate towards the lists of Paul a lot more than we do to the teaching or the life of Jesus, because Paul's lists to those specific churches were dealing with specific things they were dealing with, but it was really clear, the works of the spirit are this, but you all listen, the works of the flesh are this, and it's really easy to quantify that. The teachings of Jesus are, there's some challenging, it's challenging to quantify those things. And they're so broad, 'cause you can go so many different layers to what he's talking about here, but I can't think about the attitudes that they think about the old school top gun movie. - Okay, yeah. - That's the first thing I think of,

and it's like, you remember in the opening scenes when Maverick and Goons are flying, and they're going against that MiG, and they're like, we can't shoot him down, and Maver says, I'm gonna have some fun with him. And so he takes his plane above them and goes upside down. - Yes. - And then it takes it, I think he shoots on the bird, Well then like they're talking in Top Gun with the instructor, you know, and he was like, "Well, how did you get a picture of a wig?" And he was like, "We were inverted." You know what I mean? And I feel like that's what the Beatitudes do. Like it is like completely upside down for what we would think, right? Like the people that are remembered throughout history or how things are supposed to go, the Beatitudes are like flipped upside down. It's like we were inverted, you know what I mean? And so I love it. I love this stuff 'cause it's, you read it different times and it hits different. And that's just, that was the complexities and the nuance of Jesus. He was, the Messiah was not rigid. And I feel like that's something we've lost as followers of Jesus in the 21st century in the Western church is we've become very rigid about things, largely influenced by man-made teaching

and their interpretation of that. But Jesus' stuff was so, like what does it mean? - Yeah. - What does it mean to be hungry? - Right. - Yeah, like what does that mean? I mean blessed, you know, all those things are like, they are completely paradoxical upside down and inverted from what we're used to. - Yeah. And I love how you brought that out. The idea of, you know, we think of the list of Paul versus the teachings of Jesus. 'Cause I think what Jesus does here to your point is incredibly, clever seems like a short word for it. But it's just incredibly clever 'cause at one point, he very much encourages us, but then he also very much challenges us throughout the Sermon on the Mount. Like 'cause you start with that teaching of, and we'll talk about this in a minute, I'm sure, you know, blessed are those who are poor in spirit and realize their need for God. Like he starts with this idea of like, the first thing you gotta know about the kingdom is you can't get there by yourself. Like you just can't do it. You're poor in spirit. You have nothing.

You can do nothing to get into the kingdom. But then, so he encourages us with that just to say like, hey, you can come into the kingdom with nothing. And in fact, that's the only way you're gonna get there is to come in with nothing. But then as he goes through the Sermon on the Mount, he starts to challenge us in ways. I think the way I would say it is, he challenges us not with things to do, but things, but who to be, you know? - But that's so hard. - Yeah, yeah. - That's so hard. - At one point, it's very encouraging, but it's also very like, oh gosh, like you go through his, you know, later on in the Sermon on Mount, he'll talk about, well, you've heard it was said, do not kill. Okay, all right. Yeah, that's something to do. - Jake, I could do that one maybe. - He's like, but it's not about what you do, 'cause then he turns it around and says, but I tell you, if you're angry with your brother, like you've killed him in your heart. - Yeah, well. - And so it becomes one of those things that-- - Right. (laughs)

- For sure. - Yeah. - Like, okay, well, that's, but there's that very much challenge that Jesus gives to us, it's like, hey, recognizing your role in the kingdom, recognizing who God is and what he's called us to. It's not a matter of checking things off a list. It's a matter of being like, all right, I've seen who God is and I wanna be like that. - Yeah, what I love about do is it just levels of playing through, right? Because if I'm poor and Jesus says, blessed are the poor in spirit, 'cause you, I'm jackpot 'cause I'm showing up, I got nothing, I'm showing up with nothing. This is exciting, but if I'm showing up with a lot, that's a really challenging statement. You know what I mean? It levels a playing field, right? Because, I mean, I do that. Like, when I read the list of Paul, I treat him like, I mean, graduate school right now. And it's like, they give me a syllabus that says, if you wanna get an A, do this, you wanna get a B, do this, you wanna just C, do this. So I'm like, hey, D is for diploma. You know what I mean? I need to get through this thing. What's the bare minimum I've gotta do? So when I read the list of Paul, I can,

okay, check out that one, got that one, got that one. Jesus levels a playing field because I can read a list because of my story, my addiction took me to really, really dark places. I never, the only reason I'm not a felon is not because I didn't commit any felonies. It's just 'cause I didn't get caught. And it's not a part of my story yet. Guarantee, if I pick back up again, that's the path I'm on. But it levels a playing field, right? Because if you read that and be like, oh man, I have killed somebody. I committed murder. And it's like, well, guess what? You're on the same playing field. You leveled it off with a dude. If you, that lady in the fourth lane of the Watterson, who does not get over that I'm having, I got hate in my heart for her in that moment. We on the same play, we're in the same spot, bro. - And that's a spiritual truth that we see in scripture that I even know, like, for Panda family, as you're watching right now, I know that even as we have this conversation, you may be someone that's like, well, like, bro, like, I have actually taken someone's life, you know, but then at the end, at the same time, like, well, I may not have made that decision in my life. I mean, I have had anger in my heart towards someone else. And what Jesus is telling me is that,

gosh, we're on the same playing field spiritually, and he's setting up what his kingdom is like. He's setting up, gosh, he's reminding us how, like, when you think about the picture of the cross and the ground in front of it, like, man, like, there's not those of us that, like, get to stand closer or stand up higher or know, like, we are all desperately on our face in front of the cross. Scripture tells us that Jesus lived the life that we couldn't live. He died the death that we deserved, right? And was raised from the grave so we could have eternal life. And it's, I think it's important because oftentimes I forget about that piece of Jesus lived the life we couldn't live. Like, I forget about that. Because on one hand, like, sure, like it should be, like, at least in my mind, and maybe this is wrong, and be like, "Oh, well, for Jesus, it's probably easy." Right? Like, "Ah, it's probably easy." But I bet you it wasn't. Like, even though, like, he was, his God close to the Father, still was let out into the desert, right? To be tempted by the enemy. But I'm excited about this sermon series because you guys are right. I think there's a lot of things that,

if we just briskly read through the Beatitudes, we kind of do ourselves a disservice and we have to chew on it. - Yeah, well, let me say this 'cause I'm afraid I'm gonna lose this thought, right? You made me think here. If we read the Beatitudes without being encouraged, we have misunderstood who we are, right? 'Cause we don't see ourselves in it because these are very encouraging words to people who have nothing, right? If we read the Beatitudes without being challenged, then we have misunderstood who Jesus is. - That's good. - Because if you look at the Beatitudes, I had a quote from somewhere. Oddly enough, this is from a study we did years ago, I just happened to grab this notebook. But no, the Beatitudes are eight puzzle pieces that snap together and form a picture, not of us, but a picture of Jesus. And so if we read them without being challenged by them, we haven't understood, like, Jesus can call us to these things because this is who he is. - Yeah, I love it. And I think the Beatitudes lay the foundation that there's really no they, them, more. It's all us and we. - What do you mean by that?

- Like there's nothing that classifies or separates us anymore. There's like they think this or they did that. And the world loves to classify stuff, right? Like I'm taught working with a really good friend of mine right now that wants to go on an international mission trip with us. And because he is a felon, getting a passport is gonna be a challenge. You know what I mean? Because he has that label as that, that separates him or that disqualifies him from something. When the Beatitudes lay this out, the teaching is the sermon on the mount, teaching as a whole, lay this out. There is no they in them anymore. Like they think this or that's what they do. You know what I mean? It's all us and we. It's all, the kingdom of God is a bunch of us as in we try to figure this thing out. You know, so I'm excited for it. It's great. Man, the sermon, the sermon Sunday, for a person in long-term recovery, I'm like, yep, that was step one. - Yeah. - That was step four. - Okay, yep. - That was step eight.

You know what I mean? Like he just kept nailing the principles and truths of that stuff like in a way that I'm like, gosh, this is, it's just us and we, like we're just trying to figure this thing out. - So for all the visual learners out here, for all the people that want the picture of this set up. So we call this a sermon on the mount, right? So is Jesus, like is this like a Moses situation where Jesus is up on this mountain? Like what's the setting? Who are the, like is he talking to his disciples? Are there other people there? Like what, like what does this actual scene point in history look like in this moment? Do we know? - Yeah, it's a little bit challenging. So I will tell you, you ask, is this Moses on the mountain side? And I will say that certainly what Matthew wants us to think. Right? That's what, the way Matthew phrases up this sermon, I think that's what he wants us to see. He wants us to understand, I want to be careful how I phrase this because it's not that. But I think he wants us to understand what Jesus is doing here, is establishing a new law, right? Like Moses went on the mountain to get the law.

This is Jesus on the mountain saying no, this is the law of the kingdom of heaven. Like it's not a checklist. It's a, like this is what the kingdom is about. I do think, and this is I think something a lot of, like New Testament scholars now kind of agree on, is I don't know that this sermon was a one time thing. I think, and I'll put that in very big asterisks. I think that this was largely a sermon that like Jesus is most repeated sermon. Like I think this was when he went from town to town, 'cause remember there's no social media, there's no going viral with stuff. Every town he goes into, if he's reclaiming the kingdom, he has to say what he wants to say there. And I think, - Interesting. - I think this certainly happened on a mountain. So I don't, like I think what Matthew describes here certainly happened. And I don't want you to take that away from it, but I think it happened more than once. - Yeah, collection of it, yeah. - I think this is, I think, I don't wanna, this sounds trite and I don't mean it to be. I think the sermon on the mountain is, in a sense, Jesus is greatest hits. - Yeah, yeah, I agree. - And I think the Bible, the Bible was written, you know, for us, but it was not written to us.

- Mm, that's good. - You know what I mean? And that's a quote from a guy named Michael Heiser, like the Bible is for us, but it was not written to us. Right, and so anytime I'm trying to describe something to you Like if I'm trying to describe this piece of my hometown, and you've never been to my hometown I'm gonna try to find something that I can use Commonality commonality to this thing and so that's that's really what was I think yes and all the things we read in Scripture It's like it was written for us, but it's not written to us. There was an original audience that hits that I've been to the place I've got to go to Israel a couple of times and I've been to the place where they they don't know Sure, but they think this is probably was based on the teachings of it. It's it's not very it's not very mountainy You know it's more like it's more like a hillside hill, but again It kind of there's a there was a cool piece of that in my mind that Jesus was in a place like it wasn't like hey I'm gonna come and fill the yum center y'all come listen me talk He was very much just moving around from town to town in areas that prominent people normally didn't go He was in a current surrounding of people like this is the kingdom of goddess for everybody was the the root of like why he walked Where he talked what he taught where he taught and so like there was not there was like there was a natural amphitheater effect If he's on this hillside and so it was it was I mean it was definitely Definitely more than flat, but it wasn't like a great. It wasn't like a steep mountain He wasn't gravitating down but to an audience that Matthew's writing this to that makes a lot of sense because they Automatically connected with Moses and Mount Sinai and I had a message from God. Yep. Yeah Well, I was gonna say and one thing that you know again I do think the Sermon on the Mount is one continuous body of teaching and it's often what Jesus said I will say that I like I think of Certainly Jesus as genius as a teacher is shown in the parables like you read you know Luke 15 and the parable of the lost sheep coin and Sun like those he's a great teacher. I think the Sermon on the Mount just shows us the absolute brilliance of Jesus as a teacher because you know I When we did the study on the Sermon on the Mount years ago I read about the beatitudes and there are about like an infinite number of ways

You can break them down and think about them like are they progressive? Are they like parallel to each other? Are they like there is so much depth to the Sermon on the Mount that when you look at it You're I think the more you dive into it You're not just amazed at at the grace of God and allowing us into this kingdom You're you're amazed at the grace of God and giving us Jesus to tell us these things and the way He he took these very deep deep truths and made them accessible to people on a hillside to be like now This is exactly what you're doing in a way that it lands like it's like oh, okay I get that you know and if I if I'm you know one of the we're digging in today's blessed of those who mourn You know what I mean? And it's like wait a minute I've got some really heavy grief going on in my life, and you're telling me I'm like it just connects with that Yes, it doesn't connect with what kind of offering I brought to the temple or the status of my family or whether I was a slave Or I was a Roman citizen, you know, which was a conversation that was very applicable at that time Yeah, what hierarchy you're from what you're you know all that stuff is it was like it brought that stuff down and Made it available and connected with very real. I love how Jesus connected to very real things like being hungry Who ain't been hungry right? You know I mean it's like okay wait a minute I can think through what it means to be hungry, and then now you're telling me this and it's like whoa I need to be wanting cuz I know what I'm hungry I want food and I need to be that way for this and lesser those who mourn you know what I mean? And it's like they will be comforted and it's like okay wait well, okay I've been I've been sad before you know what I mean, and so I need to be sad You know what I need so I can be comforted. Mm-hmm. You know I mean cuz I who needs to be comforted the people that are sad Right, you know what I mean So it's it is I look when you said the brilliance of like Jesus is teaching is what it would just land it for sure Well, let's jump into the text right here. So the gospel of Matthew chapter 5 We we worked through kind of the first four verses of this so I'm gonna I'm gonna read this and then let's dive into What Jesus is getting at? It says when Jesus saw the crowds He went up on the mountain and after he sat down his disciples came to him He opened his mouth and began to teach them saying blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven and

Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted So kind of two different thoughts there in verse three and verse four But let's let's go ahead and hop in just within those first two what are some of the things that jump out to you guys that connect with you that As you're processing through the sermon that you're like, okay, that's hitting me square in the face Yeah, I do like I think that was kind of the whole setup We got kind of off on a tangent on right like so if I'm pouring I'm sad you're telling me there's a spot for me Mm-hmm, you know what I mean, and if I want that that's what it means. That's what the kingdom of God is about or that's what you're teaching right now you know, that hits, that hits. And in a way that it takes a while for us to process that, you know, so, but I love the way he contrasts those two very different things, right? You know, blessed are the poorest, more poor in spirit for what he's saying next, like they wouldn't hear it. You know what I mean, like it's like you will be given this, right? For theirs is the best way I put it, for theirs is it came up out like, wait a minute, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, the poor to, like, unimaginable wealth. Then he contrasts two things, right? Best of those who mourn, for they will be comforted. You know, and so it's like, I can show up in that space, and then this is what I have access to. And when I live, if you read the second part of all the Beatitudes, like you see, we engage like from a human perspective, we engage with like, okay, so that's fulfillment. - Yeah. - Like you mean, I have what I need? You mean, I've been comforted, you know what I mean?

And so like, he offers all those things. Like, if you read the second half of all those Beatitudes, it's like, gosh, man, imagine if we had all of those things present in our life, the contentment, the peace, the fulfillment with that. - I love that you phrased it that way, because I think one of the things that it inverts is that these Beatitudes make us think about what's really gonna scratch that itch? What's really gonna take care of that? Because we would say, well, we'll bluster the poor for they will be given money, right? Or they'll be having, they'll be financially taken care of or whatever. And Jesus is like, no, no, no, that's not it. That's not what you need. Like, if you're poor, if you have poverty and spirit, what you really need is a king. You need someone who's gonna take care of you. So the kingdom of heaven belongs to them. Blessed are those who mourn. Well, what do they need? Well, they need distraction, right? They need something to take the pain away. And Jesus is like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, that's not what you really need. Like, what you really need is someone to come alongside you, put their armor on your shoulders and comfort you and help you see, not only to help you mourn that loss in a right way,

but to undo it, right, to fix it. To see the temporary status of that morning. Yes, yes, and I think that's so great that, and I love that you pointed that out, that there is this idea that Jesus is really addressing, like, hey, this is what really is gonna fulfill you. And the reason why our world is the way it is is because we all recognize that we are these things, right? We all recognize that we are poor in spirit, that we have nothing, we recognize that we are mourned. We recognize that we're hungry and thirsty for something, but we're always messing it up, right? We're always getting to the point where it's like, well, this is gonna fix that. And Jesus is like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, that's not gonna fix that. Like, what is ultimately gonna make everything right is the kingdom of heaven. And if you miss out on that, then all of those needs that he addresses in the Beatitudes, they're never gonna be met. And so I think there is this from the very beginning, you know, blessed are the poor in spirit is how the NIV puts it or the NLT, which I have said, so who are poor and realize their need for him? Like, acknowledging your place in the kingdom, acknowledging what you really need in this life begins with acknowledging like, hey, I need someone to take care of me.

Like, I need someone who is good and powerful, who is all the things that I am not. I need someone to take care of me. - That's so good. And the way that Kyle had summed up, you know, both of these first two Beatitudes, so in verse three and verse seven, are with two kind of remarks that probably should come out from ourselves based on what Jesus is saying. And so the first one talking about blessed are those who poor in spirit. It was challenging us that we need to ask for help, right? We need to be able to honestly and vulnerably have the courage to say, I need help. Because that was reminding us that the word that Jesus used there kind of denotes like a beggar, right? That you literally have no ability to take care of being, of like, I can't become rich in spirit on my own accord, right? Like, I can't do that here. And then the second thing that he's reminding us in the second Beatitude talking about blessed are those who mourn. Is something that, I don't know, I think, I'll mention to see what you guys would say, is Kyle's wanting us to remind us that we need to be able to say, I'm not okay. Because we have the ability and the tendency to set up our lives as if we're selling a house, right? To where we're putting those fake fruit,

we're putting fake books, we're setting our house up in a way that from the street, everything seems good, right? I even think of, like, right now. Like, I mean, like, if I were to invite you guys over right now to my house, like, you know, what would my first reaction be? Well, it would probably be that I'm probably all of the garbage that's everywhere, all of the sink and be trying to clean all that up. But if you were to come in my house, like what you would probably see is a morning of like chaos trying to get kids to school, bowls with milk on the counter, like, you know, blanket on the floor, shoes somewhere else, trash on the counter. And that's kind of how I unfortunately set up my life in terms of how I want people to see me. You know, because I don't want people to see the mess. I want people to see the cleaned up version of who I'm trying to project myself to be. And what we realize is that, well, like when we do that, we end up just like suppressing the things in our life that are actually needing to be dealt with. But for you guys, which is harder to admit that you need help or that you're not okay? - Yes. (laughing) - Yeah. - I can't really pick one. - Yeah, I was like, I was gonna really try to answer that.

To be able to truthfully like, yeah, yes, they both are hard, you know, you know, Bernay Brown says, well, I love vulnerability in other people. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I love it when you're vulnerable. - Very admireable, right? - Like, I think it's awesome. And it's like, it's this catch 22 or this, like this, this got to have one to have the other. And for a lot of us, like, we, the reason we want to present this life or we act like we don't need help or say, hey, I'm not okay or I need help, you know, which I think sometimes are kind of the similar questions. The reason we do that is 'cause we've learned very early on that this world is not a safe place, that I don't have someone I can trust, that the people who have been placed in my life as a sages of development of my life that were supposed to be trustworthy were not. And so therefore I've learned that if I'm gonna be okay, I've gotta do this on my own. Like I've gotta take care of myself. And so like to be able to, okay, you want me to be vulnerable, Jesus wants me to be vulnerable, that's really good, so I've gotta trust you to be vulnerable, right? Well, how is trust formed? Trust is formed in that I take a risk here and I give something that could cost me, you know what I mean?

And then you don't do something inappropriate with that trust, but that vulnerability and then I learn I can trust you, you know what I mean? So it's like you can't have trust without vulnerability and you can't have vulnerability about trust, but it's like you can sit on each end of the table like waiting for the other person to do that. You gotta have one to get the other, you know what I mean? Trust is something that's earned and for a lot of us, like we carry over, I realized for me in my recovery journey that I carried over a lot of messages that I got from other people in this world about who I was and who I wasn't, what I was capable of, what I was not good at, and I allowed, I kind of cut and paste those into what I thought, well that must be what God thinks of me. God feels the same way that I do. And so like God goes in the file with everybody else that he's somebody I've gotta perform for and if like I'm not calling my boss to get vulnerable, you know what I mean? I had this conversation with my team the other day and I love like our organ, the church we work for, our HR department, they're like, "Oh, HR this, HR that." I'm like, "Hey, that's great." Like do not trust HR. You can't, they work for the organization. You know what I mean? - They work for the man. - They work for the organization and that's their job.

If they're not bad people, but they are paid to do their job, like I'm not busting down the door to be like, "Hey, this part of my life is a dumpster fire. "I need some help." - Sure. - You know what I mean? Because it's like no matter what you wanna do, they are bound by their job to handle that a certain way. You know what I mean? And so like to be able to say I'm not okay, I've gotta trust the person that's across from me. You know, but to be able to form that trust, I've gotta give something for it. - Yeah. - You know, my wife and I were talking about this after the message on Sunday. It just, like on in theory and on the surface, like I don't mind that level of vulnerability. Like I don't mind inviting people into the messy house. I mean, part of it is 'cause we have four kids and we can just be like, "Well, it's their fault." It's all their fault. But, you know, we were talking about like why is that? Like why do we struggle with that? And one of the things, the conclusions we came to as we were talking was like part of the reason why it's hard to acknowledge those things is because like I recognize that everybody has their own stuff, right? And it's one of those like,

like I don't wanna bother them. Like they're dealing with their own thing. Why would I put my burdens on them and things like that? But the more we talk about it, the more I thought about it, the more I realize that sounds really good on the surface. But then you realize what it ultimately means is like I don't wanna bother them because I don't want them to bother me, right? Like I don't want their stuff on top of my stuff. I just, I wanna deal with what I gotta deal with. And I think that's why. like the letters of Paul and the other epistles, to be like, hey, you gotta pick up each other's burdens. You gotta bury each other's loads. Because we all go through different stuff, but all of our stuff goes through in different waves, right? So maybe I'm in a season where the burden's not that heavy and you're going through somewhere, it's like, hey, I gotta pick that up. I gotta help them pick that up. And then those rows flip, six months from now. I think we dress it up, all that is to say, we dress it up in really good reasons. Like, we wanna feel like, okay, I'm not bothering anybody. But really at the end of the day, we gotta turn that back around on itself and be like, hey, I don't want that level of vulnerability 'cause I don't, from other people, because I don't think I can handle it.

I don't think I can deal with it. Like, yeah, like, we talk about the bluster, those who mourn. And it's like, yeah, I would really like to be in a place where like, oh, I can be vulnerable emotionally with other people, but if someone does that to me, I'm kinda like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do with millions. You know what I mean? It's like, what's happening? My wife starts crying and I'm like, oh God, what did I do? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I remember when I was a kid, man, like, mom would say, hey, somebody's coming over, we gotta clean the house and she would start barking and others with us, you gotta clean the house, clean the house, clean the house. And then the people would walk through the door, and the first thing she would say was, hey, don't look at this house, it's a mess. And I'm thinking, bull crap, like I just spent an hour cleaning this thing. But it was like, there's this underlying thing of I don't want people to see that this is the best I got, like I want a caveat in there of like, if you look at the house and I want to be able to say, you know, hey, this is not the best that I have, we're terrified that the best that we have is not gonna be good enough. - Yeah, that's good. - And that's why it's like, I need to maintain something

so that I don't feel like you're gonna see that, ah, this is the best I could do. - Yeah, and I think even in that example, like the fear is like, man, like, what are we gonna have to admit about ourselves or confront about ourselves in that? And I think, yeah, for me too, like I think both of those, I need help, but I'm not okay, I'm really difficult because it makes me confront head on that I'm not adequate to deal with the things that I'm dealing with. And in a worldly sense, man, that makes me feel weak. It makes me feel inadequate, makes me feel like I can't handle my own stuff. But from a spiritual perspective, like, that makes me normal, right? We're all in the same playing field where we can all be a part of the kingdom of God because we don't have an ability to save ourselves. Like we don't, like we, like what a blessing it is to have the spirit of God in our lives to comfort us in those things and to be able to have for us like a Christian community around us of people that we can trust and lean in with. But Panda family, I know that even as we read, your letters on a weekly basis, like I've become aware that for you, that's not a possibility all the time where you may not be in a place where you feel even physically safe to show weakness,

much less have the space to be able to be vulnerable emotionally. And like Matt had mentioned, like maybe you've never had an example of that in your life. But I think that's why this conversation in this sermon series is gonna be so valuable for all of us on the same playing field of trying to figure out how do we deal with something specifically like sadness. Because in verse four, Jesus said, "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted." And man, that doesn't make any sense to me because if I'm sad, that's not a good day. That's not a good day, it's not a good moment, but Jesus is reminding us that we're blessed by His presence. And even having to confront that phrase that Kyle challenged us to think about was, I am sad about blank. Even in my men's group earlier this week, so many different things came up when I asked. I was like, hey, let's all name it. Everything came out from the person that they wished that they were the affair that they had or affairs that they've had in the past, relationships with parents that have always been broken and will probably never be fixed. There was a guy that was sharing, he literally met with one of his parents a few weeks ago. Still didn't get better. Kid stuff, finances, career, all the above.

And I would bet, as Kyle had shared that, probably every single person at one of our campuses and online, as he shared that thought, huh? Yep, because oftentimes, when we think about sadness, oftentimes, we can mask it with anger. So what's your options take on that? - I was, I think you said it up perfectly when you were like saying I'm poor in spirit, right? I don't want to admit that I'm weak. And I think that's why we, that's why mourning is so hard. That's why sadness is so hard. I think part of it is hard for us because a lot of us, we grew up like the only emotion that I was ever modeled for me for that a man was okay to have was anger. Never saw happiness, but rarely saw happiness. Never saw fear. Never saw sadness, you know what I mean? And I learned when I went to rehab, I was working with my therapist and he was like the very beginning when I got there and he's like, "What do you want to work on the most?" And I was like, "Man, I've got anger issues. "I need some help with my anger." Because I would like, I could literally be fine one second and then something would hit and I would lose my temper, like just blow, okay? So I've got anger issues. And he was like, "Okay." And I realized after about three days, I didn't have anger issues.

I had sadness issues and the reason I chose anger was because sadness feels weak and I don't like feeling weak. Anger feels powerful. I feel like I'm in control. - Yeah, that control piece is big. - I feel like this is, I'm in control right now. This is, I'm the one that's making something happen, you know what I mean? And I used to, and I was getting this mindset where I thought, okay, anger is a bad emotion, sadness is a bad emotion. You know what I mean? There's no good such thing as good or bad emotions. Like they're all just trying to communicate something to you. Like if something happens, it makes you sad. - It's a signal. - Yeah, so I love that when you said like anger for me was something that it was like, it feels a lot stronger to lose my temper than it does for me to say, man, this really hurts, it makes me sad. - And I think the other part of that is that anger is actionable, right? Like if I'm angry about something, I can do something about it, or I can act a certain way about it, or I can go, I don't know, punch the wall or whatever. Like I can make myself feel better about anger. Morning is sadness is not actionable, right? There's really, there's not anything you can do with it, except-- - Experience.

- Experience it. - And that sucks. - Yeah, like you just have to sit it and be like, okay, like at least if I'm mad, I can rage about it, or I can, you know, be angry about it. If I'm sad about something, it's like, all right, well, this is just how it is. And I think that's probably why, like especially for us as men, like I think we're always driven more by like, oh, I gotta fix this, like I gotta do something about this. I mean, it's a conversation I'm sure we've all had with our wives is like, do you want me to listen to this, to hear it or to fix it, right? 'Cause we wanna fix it. And I think that's why anger is so easy to, or it's, yeah, anger is easy to be a replacement for sadness. Is it just makes us feel like, oh, I can do something now. As opposed to just waiting for it to pass, or waiting for it to just dissipate? - Yeah, and I don't, like I had never, it's funny, like even going through like a decade of counseling and all the stuff that I've dealt with just mentally, like I had never put two and two together of anger, masking, sadness, for whatever reason until this past weekend. And it makes so much sense, because I think about the things that, like when I have those moments, or I have those like crash out moments,

where I'm just like, oh, you know, I'm getting all upset. And I look at the deep rooted issue of that, well, it's because I'm sad about it. And I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it. I don't want to feel sad. And I sure as heck don't want to sit, even at this table and be like, if you guys were like, hey, like, you know, knew that happened. Like, you know, how you doing? It's a lot easier for me to be like, man, like that really pissed me off rather than being like, you know, guys, like, I'm just sad. - Yeah, yeah. - Like, like, you know, and even in the most normal context, the person would be like, oh, shoot, oh, okay. You know, like it would almost be rattling in the moment because that's not our go-to. It's really, 'cause I think you're right. Like, it's like anger, we can almost, like it's a control, like we can't control that thing. It makes us feel strength and control, even as I'm thinking about, like, my body's tense enough, like all this stuff. - Yeah, right, yeah. - But sadness is almost like this surrender of... - This happened and I don't like it and there's nothing I can do about it. Although you do make me think, this is a little bit of an absurd illustration. So I'm just gonna hold it on the front of the absurdity.

- But you make me think, especially, you know, 'cause we were four weeks into the NFL season. Can you imagine if one of us came in on Monday morning and we were crying that our team lost? Like, most of the time, we're just angry about it. Like, I can't, the rev screw this over and over and over and over. But can you, I'm just really sad, the Falcons lost. - Yeah. - You love it. - That was a lot. - Yeah. - That was a lot. - I'm just, I'm just imagining... - I'm a fan this year. - It's not been great. - It's not been great. - It's not been great. - They feel it in. - But, I mean, I think that's just kind of an, it's an absurd example, but kind of an example of how we deal with that. - Oh, for sure. - Like a big game. Like, that bums me out, but it's like good. - I'm just gonna be angry about it because that is more acceptable. Like, you know, just don't, all that is to say, don't cry to me about the UofL game. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I don't want the tears. - Well, and I think there's a, there's a, like, and again, like, it shouldn't surprise us that Jesus, who is there before creation, who is God, it shouldn't surprise me that He understands the human psyche better than anyone on this earth could ever comprehend.

And so I think there's so much wisdom in what Jesus is saying here. But there's also a warning in a danger, I think, too. We were talking about earlier where, I think the more that we decide to not deal with things that we're wanting to deal with or we need to deal with, it's like if we have, like, a beach ball and we're in the pool and we're trying to just stuff it under the water, right? Well, if you've ever done that before, any type of big ball, like, there's a lot of tension and effort, there's a lot of effort and strength it takes to keep that sucker under the water. But at some point, at some point, that sucker's gonna shoot like up and explode. And that's just, I think, an example of a variety of ways and how when we don't deal with the stuff that we're sad about or having to wrestle with, it can come up. In other ways, sometimes it's anger, sometimes it's in poor decisions and, gosh, that's just speaking from my own life. But as you guys think about the dangers of not sitting in that sadness, what are the dangers? Where have you seen that? Is it my life? I love one of my favorite verse has become the verse that Jesus wept, you know? And I think sometimes like in the church circles or if you grew up going to church, it was like,

the joy is Lord is my strength, you know what I mean? And you should not be like sadness, you know? It's like, don't be sad, turn that frown upside down. Like, it's like, you're not supposed to experience that. Like, you're not supposed to be sad about things. And in like, somebody said this, I remember who it was, but I use it in counseling about clinical work a lot. Like, when something makes you angry, ask why five times. And when you get to the fifth why, that's the root of it. Interesting. So like, even like on the question about the football, like, okay, I'm angry at this. Well, why am I angry about this? It's like, well, because this experience is not gonna be as fun as it would usually, when my team wins, it's a really fun thing with my family. Oh, why, why? And it's like, well, because we were like, when you get the fifth answer, you get to the fifth why, that's really what's going on in you, you know? And I know like, I'm pretty confident like you're watching this today with us where you've been like, dude, why did I just lose my stuff on them, you know what I mean? Like, it wasn't even that big a deal when you think about it later on. And it's because we've had another time in our life when this, we've experienced this and we've stuffed it down. And like, when that stuff comes out, it's like when you eat something

that makes you sick to your stomach. Like if you eat something that makes you sick to your stomach and your body's trying to get rid of that, and you throw it up, you don't just throw up what you ate that made you sick. It throws up everything that's in there. It all comes out. So if you have stuff that you've suppressed, the next time something hits the reminds of that, it's all gonna come out. That's all gonna come out. And so I think Jesus, starting here, be poor, okay? The Kingdom of God is about mourning, you know what I mean? I'm sad for that. Like I'm sad for that that it's normal, it's okay. And to be, it's okay to be sad because Jesus didn't even just tell us that. Like we have reference of him. You know, it was one of the cool story. Like Lazarus is dead. He hangs out for a few days before he goes, seemingly to make it like obvious that he brought him back from the day that he wasn't just asleep. He shows up, everybody's crying, right? And so what's Jesus do? He weeps and he's about to fix it. - Right, yeah. - But he's like, you know what I mean? Of all the things that come into that situation, knowing like, hey, I see Martha's crying, Mary, girl,

I got you, that's what I'm about to do. You know what I mean? Like, no, don't be sad, don't be sad. You don't gotta be sad. He shows up for people that are sad and weeps. - Why do you think he cried? - Because I believe watching people that he cares about be sad made him sad. - Yeah. - Doesn't matter if he's about to fix remedy the situation. It's like, he seemed like based on his interactions and his teachings and the way, you know, the scriptural references of them followed. I think he had a genuine, genuine care, concern, empathy, love for Mary and Martha and the people and they were sad. - Yeah. - And so he was sad and he said, Jesus wept. 'Cause this life is hard. - Oh yeah. - This life is hard and it doesn't matter who you are. Like, this life's gonna break you. It's gonna break you at several points and God knows that. And like, he's never promised that man like even like everything's not gonna be easy. Like that's just not, that's not the journey. And so I just picture the people that are there listening to Jesus talk about these things. Like I would imagine every single person

is probably sitting there thinking, okay, like someone's gonna comfort me in the midst of this. And I think sometimes when we think about the love of God, we immediately look at Jesus on the cross, which we absolutely should, 100%. But then we can miss sometimes that his love also compelled him to send his spirit that would be with us in the midst of every moment, every day, in the midst of our sadness, that he would comfort us, right? He knows us, he loves us, he sees us. And it's easy to forget because life is hard. Like life is hard. But Matt, you were talking earlier before we hopped on about some of the maybe some practical ways that has helped you process through sadness. Yeah, for sure. What are some of those? Yeah, so when I first started this journey of being sober, like I realized how much of like emotional suppression was a part of my continuous, continual returning back, you know, 'cause I had no trouble getting sober. I just could not stay sober. I quit a million times and picked up a million in one. You know what I mean? And so like when I started working through trying to, okay, what's it like, I realized that like addiction is about like trying to escape like the human survival mechanism in our mind, right?

Humans will only sit in discomfort for so long. That's how we potty train toddlers. Like the toilet is pretty intimidating. That's loud, it's big, I don't know what it is, but nobody likes to sit in that for very long. You know what I mean? If we're outside and it starts pouring down rain, nobody has to come get us and go, "Hey guys, do you want to come out of the rain?" Like we move away from discomfort. So like what I, for me, a lot of my discomfort was internal and the internal discomfort realized that to work with therapy and in treatment was about emotional suppression, right? So like all I knew was I suppressed my emotions and that was a big part of the reason why I couldn't stop. I couldn't stay stopped, you know? And so like I'm all right. So I've got to process my emotions. Well that's problematic in some cases, right? Because there's safe places to do that and there's unsafe places to do that. You probably experience a world that you live in is probably a lot more unsafe places than there are safe places to do that. And so like I, for me, when I got on from rehab, it did not bode well for me to sit down at dinner with my family and then all of a sudden like something started to come up and I'm feeling sad and it's like, okay, well I'm supposed to experience

this emotion and I'm just gonna ugly face crying from all my family while we're sitting at the table. You know what I mean? That's not fair to them. What am I making my six year old do in that moment? (laughing) Why is that crying? You know what I mean? Like what's going on here? So what I worked with my counselor on was is finding a safe space to process that. And it's like creating, creating that environment where okay, this is where I can do this. So it's like when the emotion comes up and I'm feeling sadness, you know? 'Cause while I, why was I feeling sad at the table when I was sitting at my family? It's because I had pissed away a lot of family dinners when I was using. And I was over, like part of it was I was grateful that I was at the table. The other part of it was grief for how much they didn't get family stuff because I was choosing to live in my addiction. You know what I mean? And so like I can't suppress that, but I can't let it just bubble out. Like you know what I mean? I'm thinking about you in the child line. You know what I mean?

It's like are you about to get a plate? And it's like, I'm gonna just break down crying. Like come on, bro. That's not a good place. It's not a good place to do that. But it made of creating a spot where I could. And for me, it was finding that place. Okay, this is a safe place for me to deal with this emotion 'cause there's no good emotion or bad emotion. I don't have to confuse with whatever I feel. I'm observing that. It's like I'm feeling sadness right now, okay? I'm sad because I pissed away a lot of family dinners 'cause I chose to say drunk and high. You know what I mean? I just missed three months of those. I missed Christmas. The first Christmas I ever gone from rehab, I was sitting there and it was so hard not to be sad because I knew this like the Christmas before that they were having stuff and I was in rehab. And so the space I found for me that ended up, I didn't realize it at the time to continue learning. Like the face that I was able to, the safe place for me is when I was working out. Like it was like, that was my time. Like nobody else was really around. You know what I mean? And there was something about what I'm lifting weights where I was doing, you know,

I do more body weight stuff than anything, but when I'm doing push-ups or I'm doing squats, it's like this is a time for me to be like, man, this was really sad. I was really sad about that. Now, through learning, you realize in like that there's something really healthy that happens when you process emotions alongside a physical movement. You know what I mean? And so tangibly for you, that might be something, right? Like, and I don't, or at the workout facility or you're in your cell or in your place and there's only, there's one guy locked in there with you and there's really tight space or you are in a bunk house or a dorm with like 50 other dudes around like that. But it is, there's creating a space. We're like, okay, no, this is a place that I can do this because I've tried, and the reason is not because we all want to be emotionally intelligent individuals. The reason we want to do it is because that crap's almost killed us. Suppressing the stuff has almost killed us. You can trace back whatever is in your life right now that it's led to the cause to you watching this thing on Pando, you can dig those things back, ask why about five times and I can pretty much guarantee that it comes back to some piece of that is about suppressing emotions or choosing not to deal

with the hard crap that we've experienced in this life. So find in a safe place to do that. And if you can compound that with a time when you're doing physical movement, you'd be surprised like how much the tears don't come because I'm doing something with it. But it's like, just to be able to say, man, I was really sad. You know what I mean? So I think about you, man, my heart breaks. When I think about my friends that I get letters from you all the time. Folks are in treatment that formed great relationships with the caught charges and got some time. And every time a holiday hits, I think. You know, I think about it. And when I think about that, I'm sad with you. I'm sad for you. It's you're in a place and that you're not present and that that's where you're at. Taking time when you're sad, like I'm sad that I'm here. I'm sad that this is where I found my place, where I found my spot. And man moments like that, let that comfort you that Jesus wept. Like you're not talking to a God who doesn't know what it's like to be sad. He felt sadness. So when you're in the sad, when you create that place or that time, wherever that is,

man, it's okay to be sad. And then we do it because suppressing it. See, man, it kills us. It does. And that's where I think the invitation to allow Christ into your life is so important. You know, he absolutely cares about your eternity, about taking care of your sin, of offering forgiveness, but he also cares about what Matt just talked about, to be able to walk with you, walk with us through our sadness. But there has to be, like Matt was talking about, there has to be a place for us to process that. We have to find a safe place to do that. And so we do that setting up a conversation with your chaplain, wherever you're at, to take that chance, right? Because like Matt talked about earlier, to build trust or even to be vulnerable, it comes with a risk. It comes with a risk. And I know that probably for many of you, you've taken that risk several times in your life and been let down. And that's been abused. But we're asking you to keep trusting God in the midst of that. Keep trusting him that he's gonna bring the right person into your midst. Or even if it's that you need to write us, you know,

here at Southeast, whether it's Matt or someone on our team, we would love to be able to talk with you about that and respond back to that letter. But fellas, you know, before we wrap up today, Brandon, I wanted to give you a chance to talk just for, you know, 60 seconds about a Bible study we did that you mentioned earlier in the podcast that we did probably a few years ago now about the Sermon on the Mount. It's one that we have on Pando that people can check out. So tell us about extraordinary, ordinary. Is that what's called? - No, no, no, but when you have extraordinary ordinary, that's for Ruth. - Well, there you go, nevermind. - And that's it, I love that one. The study through the Sermon on the Mount is everything is backwards. - That's what it is. - And it's the E. - It's the E. - You're good. - You're good. But I like them both, so do either one of them. But yeah, everything is backwards is our look through the Sermon on the Mount, kind of talking about how Jesus flips all those things around. It's like everything you think you know is wrong. But everything you've ever hoped for is true and it's right and it's good.

And so I think it's a six week study that walks through the Sermon on the Mount, kind of talks through some of the big ideas of what Jesus presents there. So absolutely, absolutely check that out. It's there on the Pando app. - Love it, love it. Well y'all, we love you. We genuinely mean that. We're grateful that we get to interact with you in this format. You know, we're also celebrating one of our campuses this last weekend. place their trust in Christ, and be able to do that with their family and fire. We love to see that. We love to see the fruit of what God's doing in your life. But y'all again, stop, stop pressing. Let's all agree to stop pressing and suppressing that beach ball of emotion and sadness underneath the water. Find those moments, those places, to be able to let Jesus take that, to have those conversations, to work through that sadness. Y'all, but we love you, we're grateful for you, and we will see you next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]