Episode 046 || Nothing Closes This Door

- What's up, Pando family? We are so glad that you are here today. This is our Pando exclusive podcast as part of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky. If you're looking for a place to understand more about the Bible and learn how to better follow Jesus than this is the place to be. My name is Derek, I'm our campus pastor for SC Online. Got my teammate Brandon here with you at the table that y'all know and for the very first time on this Pando podcast, we have Josh Head, who is in connections at our Blankenbaker campus. And for those of y'all that have been walking with us as a church for the last while, you would have seen Josh before on Pando doing that beginning or ending part of service that we do each week. So Josh, happy to have you, man. - I'm happy to be here, man. - I love you. - Welcome. - Being able to be a part of this team, jump in and dive into God's Word. I'll take any excuse to do that, man. - Love it. - I love it. - Love it. - Brandon, how's it going and the life of Brandon? - Ah, you know, it's going all right. It's going all right. When we had NFL football start this weekend, so that was great and I'm just ready to have

my heart broken for another season. So it's a good time. - Hey, Brandon's ready to be heard again. - Yes, yeah. - Brandon, you're not as heard as me 'cause I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. - Oh, and I'm a Falcons fan. So we have a lot of common grief at the table together. But Josh, set us up a little bit. What do you do here at Southeast? - Yeah, so I work on our connections team. You're our Blankenbaker campus. And that really encompasses kind of all things adult ministry and discipleship. And so a lot of my role, a lot of my world deals with helping our group leaders, kind of encouraging and equipping them as they lead small groups on campus or in their homes. I also helped just with the overall general discipleship process. So people that are kind of new to our church want to get connected deeper. They come to our starting point classes to learn more about our church or membership class to really kind of find their identity in the church. And then oftentimes getting to walk with people through the process of wanting to be baptized, which is the sweetest, biggest blessing. I love being up in the baptismal pool and celebrating new life with those people.

- Yeah, and y'all would probably have seen Josh, you know, in the baptistry on Sundays towards the end of the service that we post on Pando. And so a lot of familiarity there with you and then our audience and really, not even our audience, our church family. That's what we truly believe about you watching this on Pando that no matter where you're at, that you're a part of our family here at Southeast. And on top of that, that if you know Christ, if you have a relationship with him that you're literally, we are literally brothers and sisters together. And that's awesome. But Josh, for you, man, so you are in ministry. When did you first learn that this is something that you wanted to do? - Man, it's a loaded question because you said-- - Okay, that's a good question. - You said when I first learned, I wanted to-- - First learned you wanted to. - I would say I grew up in this church. I've been a part of this church family for a long time since I was born. And in seventh grade, one of our pastors here, Matt Reagan was speaking at a conference and he made that bold call. If you feel called in the ministry, stand up. And just through some ways that I felt the Lord might have gifted me and called me, I thought in that moment, man,

the Lord might be called me into this, but I didn't stand up. And I just felt a lot of guilt and shame in that. Like God called me to stand up and be obedient and I wasn't. And then that led to a journey of four or five years of just kind of chasing after what I wanted. I was chasing after school and money and good grades and wanting to be highly successful. And it eventually led to a path where I just was like, man, I can't do this on my own, started falling apart. And I don't know if it was that I wanted to go into ministry, but I felt like God was putting it on my heart. And I knew finally, I didn't wanna have to worry about controlling my own life 'cause it was falling apart. And so junior year of high school is when I was like, all right, I'm all in Lord. I think this is what you're calling me to. And we're just gonna run after it. And that was probably seven years ago now, seven or eight years ago now. Been on staff here for two years. And it's just been the biggest blessing. Just understanding, man, God's will is good, pleasing, and perfect, even if on the surface, it wasn't something I was like, man, this is what I want to do. I just learned, I do have a heart for it. And it's been amazing. - That is so cool. And so outside of work, what would people,

like what would Josh be doing? What is Josh doing whenever he's not working, serving at church? - Oh man, I love lifting. I love working out in the mornings. I love playing baseball, playing softball now. Big hobby of mine, play baseball my whole life. So it's a big pleasure of mine. And then it just depends. My wife is a big adventurous person. I'm not, I could be a homebody. - Okay. - So that's going to the park or making random trips to wherever sports games, whatever it is. - Gotcha. - So it really just depends, man. - So she likes to go in places, you like staying at home. - Yeah, oh, I'm a huge homebody, huge homebody. I'd rather sit and watch sports on my couch, watch football all day, whatever that is. Really, it's probably revolving around sports. I was working out playing baseball, watching sports, something like that. - I can understand that. - Oh, yeah. - I can understand that. That sounds like a good weekend. - Oh, for sure. - It really does, but fellas, the reason we're here today at this table is to be, to talk about Kyle Sermon

from this past weekend. And I have a couple of different groups that I'll be a part of this week, just with, you know, Southeast online, that I'm excited to talk about this message with, because, man, it's impactful. Why had a guy, you know, and a little app on my phone that we use for group that messaged even this past Thursday after going. He was like, guys, this is one of the most powerful sermons I've heard about this topic. - I agree. - And quite a long time. And so I'm looking forward to talking with you guys about it. But Brandon, kind of the main text that Kyle was drawing from this weekend was from the Gospel of Luke. And so set us up, remind us again, kind of the context of what we're looking at and what Jesus is describing here. - Yeah, so we were in Luke chapter 16 today, or this weekend, I should say. And what's interesting about Luke 16 is it has two parables in it. It's the parable of the shrewd manager and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And I say it's interesting because if you back up a chapter to Luke 15, it has three of the most famous parables in it, right? It's got the parable of the lost sheep,

the lost coin, the lost son, or the parable of the prodigal son, as we normally call it. And those parables are like, man, like we wanna read those parables. They are great stories. The parable of the prodigal son is probably Jesus's most famous parable. - So you say parable, what do you mean? - So a parable, these are the stories Jesus would tell throughout the course of his ministry that were often very simple stories about everyday things that people would have understood. But often, well, always carried, some deeper spiritual significance to it. In fact, the word parable comes from the idea of setting something beside something else. Like I'm gonna set these situations down next to the spiritual reality so that you can see how these things overlap. Like God is like a father who waits for his children to come home in the parable of the prodigal son, things like that. So Luke chapter 15 has these very fun parables, these nice parables that are like, oh, this is great. Like God is waiting for the wayward son to come home. This is wonderful. Then we get to Luke 16 and we get two of the most confusing parables that Jesus tells. You know, well, I should say one is confusing and one is a little bit heavy.

- Terrify. - Yes, yeah. - Depending on the person, yeah. - The parable of the street manager that opens up Luke 16 is a very often debated parable. It has a good lesson and there's it relates to eternity, though, so maybe we'll talk about it. But Luke, the end of Luke 16, he comes to this parable of the rich man in Lazarus where he tells this story of two very different men, the very different in life and their differences are only highlighted and reversed when they die. So there's in this parable, there's a certain rich man, as Kyle reminded us, who has splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen who lived every day in luxury. So we read this guy, he's rich, he has everything. He is, you know, in the position everybody wants to be in. And outside of his gate is a poor man named Lazarus. And it's interesting because Lazarus is the only character that Jesus ever names in a parable. Most everybody else, I should say. - Why do you think that is? - Well, I think, we'll get to that in the end. - Yeah, we'll get to that in the end. I think I have an idea for why Jesus names this person. At any rate, he names him Lazarus and Lazarus sits outside the gate and he's poor, he's needy, he has none, and he's covered in sores. And Jesus tells us that as he sits out in the gate,

the only companionship he has are the dogs who would come by and lick his sores out of compassion. Like the dogs have more compassion for this man than the rich man does. And so the rich man lives his life of wealth. The poor man sits outside his gate, Lazarus has nothing. And eventually they both die. And it's then that their fates are kind of reversed. His, the rich man goes to hell to this place of torment and Lazarus ends up in heaven, as described as Abraham's side in the parable. - Yeah, that-- - No, go ahead. - No, you look like you had a question. I was gonna give you a second. - No, no, no, no, you keep going. - Oh, okay. - I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna make you wait now. Let's do it. So as the rich man is in this place of torment, he looks up and he sees Lazarus standing with Abraham, the father of the faith, and he cries out to Abraham and says, "Abraham, please have some mercy "on a sin Lazarus to dip his hand in the water "and bring it to me to cool my tongue, "just a moment of relief." And Abraham tells him, "Well, this is impossible. "There's no going between these two places, "there's no going between these two destinations.

"You had good things in life, and Lazarus had nothing, "and now he is in paradise, and you are being tormented." And it's interesting because the rich man's request really shows that he wanted to keep the same sort of relationship we have with Lazarus in life, right? Like, ask Lazarus to go dip his hand in the water and bring it to me. He's treating Lazarus like a servant in this situation. And it's just interesting that even in the midst-- - Interesting, I hadn't thought about that. - Yeah, even as he is in this place, even as he's faced with this regret of how he's lived, like he still wants to keep these roles. Like, well, this guy still ought to serve me at any rate. So the rich man, after finding out there's no way for him to get any relief, he cries out again to Abraham and says, "Well, if he can't do that, "at least send Lazarus back to my father's house, "because I have brothers, have him warn my family, "because I don't want them to come to this place of torment." And Abraham tells them, "Well, no, they have Moses, "they have the prophets, they have the word of God, "if that should tell them what they need to know." And the rich man replies, "No, if you send Lazarus back "from the dead, then they'll repent of their sins "and turn to God." And the parable ends on a very sobering note, where Abraham says, "If they don't listen "to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen

"if anyone comes back to them from the dead either." Like, they're just not going to listen to the warnings about this place. And so, Jesus is confronting us here in this parable with, as Kyle said, the reality that eternity is real, that not just heaven is real, but hell is real, that there are these two eternal destinations that scripture talks about that we all face after judgment. - All right, so you made us wait. Why, what's your theory? - Oh, why is my theory-- - What's your theory? - Yeah, yum, I'm ready. - So my theory is, you know, Jesus knew a Lazarus, right? - He did. - Yeah, Jesus knows a Lazarus. And it's that Lazarus that at the end of his ministry, Jesus will bring back from the dead. And so I think the quite, it's interesting because the resurrection of Lazarus isn't in John's gospel and not Luke's, but I think it's all part of these stories that people knew about Jesus. So I think Jesus is leaving them with this question, would you believe if a man named Lazarus came back from the dead? Would you believe if Lazarus rose from the dead? And what we see in John's gospel is that they didn't. And in fact, it was the moment where they solidly turned against Jesus, not only turned against Jesus, they turned against Lazarus. You know, John's gospel tells us they decided that Jesus and Lazarus had to die at that point in time,

that the religious leaders who refused to believe him. So I think Jesus is already setting them up before this even happens to think about the idea of like, okay, if someone named Lazarus came back from the dead, would you still believe? And the answer, I mean, yeah, the answer for them is it's not. I think there's kind of the double meaning there too because Jesus is also, I think talking about himself, like they're not gonna believe in this even if someone comes back. - Yeah, I love that like mic drop moment that it feels like Jesus has not died yet. Jesus has not been crucified. He has definitely not resurrected yet. And just this moment of saying, hey, like you all, right? Like with who he's talking to, like you have not listened to the prophets, you've not listened to it. Like you recognize, you say a messiah is coming, John is testified that the messiah is coming. And then even self-identifying himself as the son of man. And then he himself is crucified and raised from the dead. And just the reality is they still don't listen. - No. - They're like none of them listen. - So who is Jesus talking to here? - Do we know like generally? - Yeah, I mean, generally he's teaching the crowds in moments like these.

The only like the closest note we have about it is up in John, sorry, Luke 16, 14, where it says, you know, the Pharisees who dearly love their money, heard all this and scoffed at him. And then he said to them. So it seems as though between Luke 16, 14 and 15, one, like it seems like he's in the middle of discussion with the Pharisees at this moment. - And 16 begins with him talking to his disciples. that the Pharisees overhear it. Then he turns to address them. - They're always kind of lurking. - Yeah. - And when they are, Jesus tends to kind of call them out. - Yeah, he does. - That's why my gut reaction is to say, "Oh, he's talking to the Pharisees right now." - Yeah. Oh, you guys, you guys in the back. Let me talk to you. - Right. Yeah. - Okay, that makes a lot more sense because he's also, what's interesting about this, just looking at it, is that a couple of things that I pick up in this story is like, okay, so you have kind of the difference between this rich man and this servant, and not even a servant.

He's literally wanting crumbs, this poor man, Lazarus, is eating hope and eat crumbs off this guy's table, right? But then at the same time, Jesus is specifically calling back to Abraham in this story. Why? Like how would that have resonated with people that were there? Do we know? Is it just the fact that like this was a Jewish audience? - Yeah, so my inclination would be to say that he's calling them out because the Pharisees and the Sadducees, like their greatest source of pride would have been like we're children of Abraham. Like we are descended from him. - It's like heritage. - Right, this is our faith heritage. And there's this idea too that, I mean, and I guess we still have it in our day, their thought would have been like, well, I was born into the right family, so I'm okay. I'm one of Abraham's kids, so I'm gonna be okay. And I think Jesus is confronting that in them because even the rich man will cry out, Father Abraham, right? And he's saying like, no, he's part of the right family. He's part of the chosen people. And yet he has created the situation for himself, by the way he lived and not doing what the law of Moses commanded him to do

in terms of taking care of the poor. - And this is the same Abraham that we went through a sermon series a few months ago talking about Genesis, same guy, right? Same for reference for everyone here. This is the same guy, a central figure, right? In the Jewish faith, coming before Moses. And we see him again here, and in certain ways, we see this throughout the New Testament where, well, really throughout all scripture, we can be so close and yet miss it. And what I mean is that you can know all the right things. You could know this book, you could know the Bible from start to finish and still miss the heart of how Jesus wants us to live. Still miss walking on that narrow path that he calls us to. So we read this parable, we read this story. Jesus is trying, like Brandon said, to hold up two things next to one another, to show them the spiritual truth. And so we also bring up maybe a third thing in the midst of this is Kyle Sermon from Sunday, that this idea that eternity is real. So Josh, how do you specifically, how do you take this passage where Jesus is sharing this and apply it to your life, your thinking of, okay, well, eternity is real. So how do you apply that to your life?

- Yeah, I think it shifts the perspective. Like you go from thinking about what truly matters to me right now, is it this side of heaven, right? Like let's say we live the three of us. We live to be a hundred years old in the grand scheme of eternity that is nothing. Am I valuing this hundred year span? Or am I valuing eternity? What's kind of motivating me? And really the application is not to put pride in my flesh. When you all were talking, kind of talking about like, oh, what's the importance of Abraham? I was drawn to what we see Paul kind of, he says he's boasting about his flesh. It's in Philippians three. He says, if someone else thinks they have reason to put confidence in the flesh, if they have a reason to kind of say, I'm better than someone else, I have more. He says, circumcised on the eighth day of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, in regard to the law of Pharisee as for zeal persecuting the church, as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. And then he says, but whatever were gains to me now, I consider loss for the sake of Christ. And that idea that his perspective has changed, where like when he was a religious leader, this is what he valued, was those things. Being circumcised on the eighth day of Israel,

of the tribe of Benjamin, and now it's shifted. The only thing that matters is his recognition of his eternity and his acceptance of Jesus as his Lord and Savior, as being the Messiah. - Yeah, that is so good. Yeah, so we're talking about the Apostle Paul here in the New Testament, and gosh, in that culture, just among the Jewish people, you're right. Like if they're, like if they're, super influential and successful. He's probably got 10 out of 10. - Yeah, oh yeah. - That he's select that like, you know, just going through life and talking about knowing every word of scripture, like that would have been him, like of the Torah. Like he would have known that. And yet he still was an appointment in his life before he knew Christ that he was completely missing. God in the flesh here on earth with us, right? That our perspective, that his perspective was so flawed, but now that he's had an experience with Jesus, his perspective has changed. - Yeah, and even think, I don't wanna dwell too much on Paul because of the importance of this passage, but we look at Paul's giftings and the way that God obviously had called him to be a leader and to initiate and all these he had intellect, he was smart. And I'm just thinking about us and anyone that's watching, right, like there are ways that God has gifted

each and every one of us. There are different things that we have been, that are indwelling in us, that are core to who we are. And we can just have the wrong finish line. Like we have the wrong goal. Maybe it's put yourself first or to make a lot of money or to elevate yourself or to be famous. And then you see Paul is met on the road to Damascus, everything changes and his, and his goal, who he was doesn't really change. He's still this fiery guy that's going out everywhere in planting churches. And before he was this fiery guy that was doing everything he could to persecute Christians, all that changes is his goal. And I think that's the reality of eternity, is that we were created in a way where when our goal changes, when we have a different thing we're striving for, we just get to chase after it with freedom because that's who God created us to be. And that's where we're going to find purpose. John 10, 10, Jesus came that we could have life and have it to the full. That's the fullness of life is running after his purpose, running after the way that he created us to live. Amen, and I think it's that line that Kyle had us think about a couple of times in his message of like, well, what would we, like if we had people at a table, just like this, that were sitting around to plan our funeral and he were to ask like,

well, what would they say about you? You know, like I would imagine for a guy like Paul before knowing Christ, like there's probably a lot of really good things, a lot of really good things, but not bad things and not evil things. Maybe, you know, persecuting the church would be a major red flag. But maybe to those people it would have been great. But then it would have been great, right? But when he met Jesus, all of those things don't matter anymore, right? And I think there's a certain sense of grace in that, but as I read this text, it convicts me because I think oftentimes I don't live with the right goal in mind. I don't live each day of thinking of like, okay, like the people that know me the best, like my wife and two kids, like what would they say that I care the most about? - Yeah. - You know, when I'm not in the room, right? And they're being very honest with the person that's asking, what would they say? - And what would you want them to say? - What would we want them to say? - No, seriously. - For you personally, what would you want them to say? - I would want them to say that dad loved Jesus, that he loved the people around him and he made sure that he made time for me.

Like those are the things that I would hope that they would say. And I think right now, if I were to be honest, I don't know if that's necessarily what they would say. - Right, yeah. - You know, which sucks. - And I think that's the hard part. It's the idea just as Christians that we wrestle with a lot that, hey, yeah, like this is what I want, but is it really? Like we say, like, and I want that. I was just talking with someone the other day about how when I'm uncomfortable and something's out of my control, I'm dependent on God. And that's when I'm at my best. And that's when I feel the fullness of life. And I feel like I'm walking in stride with the Lord. But at the same time, I don't like not being in control. And so I don't often get out of my comfort zone. And I live, I say I want this and I'm at my best when I'm like this and I want my wife and my kids to think this way and I want to act this way. But the reality is, man, like, am I still putting on the chains of my flesh and still being a slave and serving my flesh and caring more about what other people think about me than what my heavenly father thinks about me. - For sure, because there's a reality that Jesus is getting at here

that our life on earth will end, right? That's a fact, right? Our life will end. It doesn't matter who you are, where you live, like that is a fact. And it's been a fact for a very, very, very long time. But what we believe is that when we die, right, there is a chasm, right? There is a chasm between being with the Lord and not being with the Lord. And depending on the type of fact, our view on this can be skewed a little bit, you know? And so I would imagine a question in the midst of this is like, what is Jesus trying to get us to understand about my life when I die in this passage? Like, not that we need to know right now what every detail of heaven and hell are going to look like. But what is Jesus simply trying to get us to understand here? You know, I think he's trying to get us to understand the reality, trying to think I want to praise the reality of what our sin will ultimately do to us. Like, I think we occasionally catch glimpses of it here, right? Like, we occasionally see, you know, people who kind of get to the end of, you know, they meet the consequences of some of some of the things they fall into. I think we occasionally, and we experience that ourselves, like, oh, how did I get myself here? Well, you had, you know, all these decisions have kind of stuck up against you. Yeah. But I think what Jesus ultimately is trying to show is, you know, at the very beginning, you know, God said, you know, if you eat from the tree, you're going to die. And we didn't immediately. And I think that kind of, for whatever reason, tricks us into thinking, like, oh, well, we're going to be fine, right? You know, we're going to be fine. And I think he's ultimately trying to warn us about like, hey, this is, this is where sin ultimately leads. It ultimately leads to, there are lots of ways we could describe hell, right? I think the ultimate way we describe hell is like hell is the place where like, is the absence of God is like, this is, this is where there is no life because the author of life's not there. This is where there's darkness because the one whose light has gone. And I think that, you know, he's, he's trying

to warn us against like, this is ultimately where your sin is going to take you. This is ultimately where all of this is going to lead if, if you don't trust in, in me, if you don't trust in him as the way of the truth in life to, you know, to, to pay the penalty for our sins. And I think it's important to, I think everything you just said Brandon spot on, and just the posture, sometimes when we talk about heaven and hell, it can feel like, even though we're not talking about works, it can feel like we're saying, well, God is saying, do XYZ and you can come spend eternity with me. And the reality is like, we, we see over and over familial language in scripture and take the story of Hosea and Gomer, which is kind of an interesting story. But the idea that sin is when we rebel against God, it's saying, God, I know you're perfect and you created everything in a specific way. And you said that if I live in the center of your will, I'm going to experience the fullest, most purpose-filled life that I can experience. But I think my way is better. I think it's more fun. I think it's going to bring me more fame or pleasure or popularity. And so sin is rebelling against God. And if, and if your spouse, right, like, rebelled against you and was unfaithful, your instant thought is, okay, right, like that's done. And what we see with God is he continues to chase after us so much that he sends his son to die for us. And it's, it's not that God's saying, no, you need to do XYZ. It's, despite you doing XYZ, like it is still open. Like there is still an opportunity for you to accept the forgiveness. It doesn't matter what you accomplished in this world. You don't have to be this rich man dressed in purple and fine linen. You can be anywhere in your life at any point, and the door is still open. Like the invitation is still there. Yeah. Because what's implied, like, like, what is the, I don't know, maybe Jesus says, like, what is the, the, the sin that's implied for this rich man here? So the, the sin that would be implied, I think, is the fact that he just completely ignores Lazarus. Like he, he completely, like his, his heart- So it's not that he's rich. Right. No, no, not at all. In fact, I think Kyle pointed it out, at least in, in one service, just, like Abraham was one of the wealthiest men who ever lived. Yeah. Right. Very true. The one they're calling on. Right. But Abraham has a complete, I'm not Abraham, the rich man has a complete disregard for, for Lazarus. Like the image, the imagery in the beginning is like he just doesn't even care.

This guy's outside of his gate. He walks past him all the time and does nothing to help him out. And, you know, I, I think we can look at that, as Josh said, and make that like, "Oh, it's a works thing." But, but I don't think it is. I think what Jesus is talking about is just, the transformed heart you have for people. You know, when, when you're living with, you know, the eyes and the attitudes of Christ is understanding like, "Hey, I have, I have a responsibility to, to care for the people God has put around me." Yeah. I, I wonder if it's not so much as it being what sin is he, like, obviously, It's not wealth. It's more so I feel like just Jesus making this Like this huge contrast of here's someone that you would walk by and spit on and ignore every single day of your life. And here's the person that you wanna be in society wants you to do. And just saying that there is, like that doesn't get you anything in eternity. Like the sin is that you don't believe and that you don't accept Jesus. That's what it's missing, right? Like yes, there's probably pride there. Yes, there's probably selfish ambition and just this self-idealization and all these things. But the reality is these are two polar opposite peoples in society, one looked down on one worshiped and at the end none of that matters. - And in that culture in particular, that's a great point of question, in that culture in particular, it would have been an inversion of what people would have thought because you would have looked at someone

like the rich man and thought, oh, well, he's wealthy. So he's favored by God. Like God loves him. And then you would have looked at Lazarus, sitting out there with sores covering his body and thought, okay, well, this guy, like he's obviously done something wrong. He's obviously not favored by God. And like Jesus is inverting all of that and being like, no, like it's not, I mean, it's a perfect example of what he talked about in First Samuel, right? The Lord, our man looks at the outward appearance. God looks at the heart is like there's this inversion coming when the kingdom of God is fully revealed that some of the value systems we held, some of the people we thought were favored weren't. And some of those who look like they were at their lowest are actually going to be raised high by God. - Because I wonder, like to put ourselves in the shoes of this rich man in this parable, when he was on earth, I can only imagine to ask him that question, like, hey, like when you die and people are planning your funeral, what do you want people to say about you, right? - And probably several of the things are listed here, right? Beautifully dressed in purple, fine linen. He joyously lived in splendor. But once his life ends, I would bet you his perspective changed pretty quick. - Yeah. - Mm-hmm.

- Because all of those things probably would seem almost stupid to care about, knowing that, okay, now I'm gonna have to live for eternity in a place where literally none of that mattered. - Yeah. - Literally none of that mattered. And gosh, that is so convicting to me when I think about, what are the things during most of the days of my life that frustrate me? You know what I mean? Like, like, okay, like going through my day, like what are the things that really tick me off, that, that control? What are the things that I have zero control over that tend to make me the most frustrated? - Mm-hmm. - And I would say, more often than not, there are things that really don't matter. In the, in terms of the significance of eternity. It's not that my heart is breaking for the poor that are in our city. It's not because I'm not able to give enough of what I make to be able to clothe the people that are naked under a bridge, right? It's not that I'm staying up late worrying at night about how the widows in our neighborhood are going to care for their family. You know what I mean? It tends to be the sports, right? When I get frustrated with my finances, right? Well, why am I having to pay for this or pay for that?

Or like, this is ridiculous. Even though, like, I'm not in a situation where it's like, I have to say, okay, I throw my hands up, I have nothing. It's just that things aren't working out in the way that I want them to. - Right. - And, and it makes me question, and it makes me take a look at like, man, Jesus talked about the kingdom of heaven so much in this term, in his life here on earth, and we're talking about it so much in this series, that it really, I don't know about you guys, like it makes me take an honest look at my life and think about like, what are the things I'm worrying about and stressing about and being frustrated about that really don't matter at the end of the day? - Well, you know, I think our tendency is that we are so quickly distracted by the urgent that we miss out on the important, right? That the things that come up that are so pressing, that are like, okay, this has to be dealt with now or I need to take care of this now, or, you know, this is something that is just here in this moment with me, that we miss out on really focusing on the things that are absolutely important because we would sit there and say, well, I think everyone would agree that we want people to sit around the table when they're planning our funeral and be like, well, he really cared, he really took care of this, he really did that.

But we don't often live our days like that because the checklist, like that doesn't make the checklist. Like, oh, I got to do all these things. I got to take care of all this. And we miss site on the fact like, hey, I need to have these overarching things that are, this is what I'm going to wake up with. This is the priority regardless of how the rest of the urgent things of the day shake out. - That's a great point because there's not many days I wake up thinking about this in particular. Like how will, like, how will I spend my day today in terms of knowing that eternity is real, right? Knowing that, honestly-- - And that it's coming. - And that it's coming. And it could literally start at any time. - Right, yeah. That's the big thing for me. Like, when you think about eternity being real, it can just feel in the clouds, like, yeah, heaven and hell, I'll figure it out one day, right? Like, but just thinking through, Jesus says, you know, he's returning. And not only, like, you've heard the cliche, how would you live your life differently if you knew tomorrow was your last day? But in the same breath, like-- - Is that a Nickelback song? - Yeah, probably, yeah.

Like-- - Oh, no. - Oh, man. Just the reality though, like, what wouldn't you care about? - Yeah. - Like what-- - Oh, yeah, yeah. - I wouldn't care about the Brown's game. - Yeah. - You know, like, I wouldn't. - Amen. - Right, like, what would I not care about if I knew that eternity was coming? - Yeah. - And I'm not saying to go all in and treat every day like it's your last day on Earth, but I am saying, right, like, there is, there is something powerful about understanding the reality that Jesus is gonna return and the most important decision you make in your life is deciding whether or not he's gonna be your Lord and Savior. They're like, that was the difference between the rich man and Lazarus. One of them made the decision and the other one chose to worship himself and to not think about the reality of eternity. - Well, and I think, you know, I think that's one of the broader lessons that all of scripture is trying to get us to understand, right?

Because in this world, everything seems real, right? Like, it seems solid. It seems like I can hold the money in my hand. I can buy this stuff. I can have these possessions. I can have this stuff. And it feels really real. And eternity does not, right? It, like, it's just hard for me to comprehend. It doesn't, it seems like it's out there. It doesn't seem real. And the Bible is trying to get us to understand, like, no, the opposite is actually true. Like, all this stuff we're trying to accumulate here, it's not real. Like, it doesn't matter. You can't take it with you. It's like, it's gonna be gone as soon as you die. Like, but what is, what is really real is eternity. What's really real is heaven and hell. And what's really real is where we're gonna be 10,000 years from now. Like, that's what's really real. The problem is we just get so distracted by everything else. That, you know, Ecclesiastes says it's vapor. That it's, it's mist. It's nothing else. - Yeah, it is. - And we just missed out on the fact that everything here is fading away. And what's really real is gonna last far beyond

our lifespan. - Mm, really real. It was really real. And, you know, and I think that's the challenging thing is that I think we can all be so short-sighted of, like, man, I have this stuff in front of me. I have this thing that's frustrating me. And, you know, we want to enjoy the lives that we have and regardless of what it looks like. And I think one of the things that we can get distracted by is that there can be good things that come into our life that kind of cause our focus to drift from what truly matters, right? You know, Josh, but one of the things that you had said, I think is so true for all of us is that, you know, we have, just like these people that Jesus is talking to, like we, because we're alive, right? We have an opportunity to make a decision that will change our eternity. It has the potential to, right? And at the end of the day, right? One of the biggest differences between the poor man and the rich man, ironically, is that one knew the king and one didn't, right? And had nothing to do with anything that they've done, right? And it doesn't mean that, like, hey, just because you're poor doesn't mean that you're not going to heaven. Because you're rich, it doesn't mean that you get this access to be able to go, right?

And I would say the same thing. It doesn't matter if you are in prison right now or you're not in prison right now. Or you have a great parole hearing coming up or you don't or things with your lawyer figuring or going well or they're not, that all of us, regardless of who we are, have an opportunity to respond to Jesus. And so, Josh, what does that look like to walk through with someone of like, "Hey, you have this in front of you, walk us through." Like, what, like, what probably a better question would be, like when I say the gospel, what does that mean? Yeah, yeah, I think the importance of the gospel is that it is good news. It isn't, it isn't, all right. Right, like the reality is each and every one of us were created in the image of God, why? Why, to glorify Him. We glorify God by being in a relationship with Him. Each and every one of us was created in the image of God to be in a relationship with God. That's a God that cares about you, that loves you. And at the same time, we sin, right? We talked about, I talked about that earlier, that sin is just put in our will above God's will. And what John 10 says, right? That Jesus came that we can have life and have it to the full. The fullness of life comes when you live in accordance with the design of the Creator.

And so I believe that God wants what's best for us. How can I trust that His word? Like how can I trust that God really wants what's best for me? How do I know? How do I know that not being rich or famous or living into this pleasure and this pleasure? Like how do I know that that's actually what's best? 'Cause that's not what the world's telling me. Well, I think the proof is in Jesus, right? Like God cares so much that He sent a son Jesus to live a sinless, blameless life and to die for the forgiveness of our sins. When we sin, there's a debt that's created that has to be paid and Jesus paid that price in full on the cross. Verse Peter 2, 24, He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree. That we can be dead to sin and live for what's right. It's by His wounds we have been healed. I love like Romans 3, 23 for all of sin and fallen short of the glory of God. The next verse, yet God in His grace freely makes us right in His sight. And so, when I talk about the gospel, when we kind of have hope and all of these good, positive emotions about the gospel, the gospel in and of itself is the good news, that your heavenly Father loves you, that He created you in His image to be in a relationship with you

and that though we sin, though we fall short, though we make mistakes, there is still an opportunity to enter into a relationship with God for eternity because His Son died and all we're asked to do in Scripture is to believe in Jesus, to confess with our mouth that He's Lord, to accept Him and to have faith in Him, that He truly is exactly who He says He is and that will spill out into our lives. It will cause us to live for the kingdom, right? It'll cause us to have an eternity of focus. If I believe that Jesus is coming back, that He's my Lord and Savior, that His Word is good and is true, will then not shape every single aspect of my life, how would your life look, both of you, if you knew you were going to die tomorrow? They're like, everything would change and so if I believe in the Bible, I believe what it says is true, everything should change about how I live my life and that's the gospel. It's not some, all right, the day's coming, where are you going? Like it's not this authoritative God saying, "You're either with me or you're against me." It's saying, "No, I want you, like I want you with me "and I know you've drifted and you've said "you don't want to be with me." Whether you knew that's what you were saying or not, when you sinned, you were saying you don't want to be with me,

you don't want what I want for you, but I promise you can't see it, but what I want is best and it is going to be amazing and it's going to give you purpose and life and not to mention, it also means you get to be with me for the rest of eternity and that's the gospel, man. Like that is the hope that we have. - Kyle had a line, that was so good. Kyle had a line at the end of a sermon that says, God's kindness is meant to lead us to repentance. Brandon, what does that mean? Just put me on the spot there. - What's it mean, Brandon? What does it mean? - I mean, you know, 'cause Paul says that in Romans, I believe he said, about where you were earlier in Romans chapter three, I think what it's pointing us to is just the idea that, you know, we often, when we talk about heaven and hell, like we often think of it in terms of like shame and guilt and like Josh said, like you, you know, where are you going, kind of thing? And so we view it in terms of judgment and God's judgment is real, like it's coming. But, you know, what brings us back to him is his kindness, is him showing us, you know, after time and time again, that we've pushed away, that we've rebelled, that we have sinned against him, that he continues to pursue, that he continues to come after us,

that he continues to reach out to us with the gospel of Jesus Christ and pull us back to himself. That he, like God is not, I'm trying to think how I wanna say this, God doesn't judge us to bring us, God's judgment doesn't bring us back to him. Like that's what ultimately separates us. But what brings us back is that he's kind and that he's good and that he wants that relationship with us. And I think that's what Paul is telling us, is that like don't look to God's judgment and be afraid of him, look to God's kindness and run towards him because he's all you've got. - And that's so good because I think the temptation can be in a message like this and a topic like this is to like the fire and brimstone version of like, get your stuff together, or you're gonna burn in hell forever, right? And, but it's true that, It doesn't matter what side of the camera or the tablet we're on right now. Like Jesus didn't have to spill more blood for you than he did for me. Like we're all covered under his blood and his grace and his sacrifice on the cross for us. And fellas, one of the things that I'll close us out with is that oftentimes too, I think the temptation is that we can view God as like this judge sitting up on this big tall stand that is there to just, you know, put the hammer down and convict us, right? And in a certain regard that there's a real judgment, right? And like you had mentioned, Josh, that our sin, our disobedience to God in his ways have said, hey, we don't want you, right? And it's caused a debt, it's sin has caused a debt in our life that had to be paid. But he came, put on flesh as Jesus's son to die on a cross for us. And there's a kindness in that, that the death that we deserved, he took upon himself, which is mind-blowing to think about in and of itself. But the image that Jesus uses and God uses about himself many times is that he's one of a father.

And we've talked about this before. And I know that for many of you that you haven't had a father in your life, I know that as I've read different letters that you guys have sent that even the interactions, maybe with the father that you did have, they weren't great, and they weren't healthy, or maybe you didn't know him at all. And like Kyle mentioned is that we have a father in heaven that hasn't been distant, right? If you're watching this right now, I would be willing to bet he's put you in a spot right now to where you can hear this message from his word today. Knowing that he's given us something like the Bible, right? That isn't just like a list of commands, right? It's a book full of 66 different books of trying to help you understand who your father in heaven is, because he loves you. And he wants to know, he already knows you, but he wants you to know him. You know, and so the posture of our father that we get to share in heaven is not one of a dad who's waiting on the front porch with his arms crossed, waiting for you to come home to tell you what you've done wrong. He's a father on the front porch with open arms, searching and looking and waiting for you. You know, so guys, it doesn't matter what we've done, which side of the camera, which side of the tablet we're on right now, that we all can be a part of the family of God when we repent of our sin when we confess Jesus as Lord. And then when we ultimately walk through the waters of baptism to become one of God's people. And so any final words of encouragement, any final thoughts before we wrap this up? Yeah, like you were saying, and I know you mentioned, right, like the posture of who God is as a father, and we said we might come back to it, but in Luke 15, right, like that parable. The verse, verse 20 literally says, so we got up and went to his father talking about the lost son, and that says, but while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him. He ran to his son through his arms around him and kissed him. That's the invitation. I like it doesn't matter where we've gone. It doesn't matter how much we've sinned. There's no, there's no scales. Like it is just we have sinned. We have a debt. The eternity is real. There's a decision to be made. Yes. But your heavenly father wants you to come home. Like he wants to accept you. It doesn't matter if whatever you're in, whatever situation you're in, whatever you've done before. Like there is so much hope in the reality that this side of heaven is short. It's the blink of an eye. It's a vapor. It doesn't really matter, but one thing does matter. And it's the decision that you make in terms of, man, do I want to spend an eternity with my heavenly father?

Do I want that? And if self glorification and making yourself seem better and worshiping yourself and putting yourself on a pedestal, that's not saying that I want what God wants for me. Like do you want to be in a relationship with your heavenly father? If so, he's there. Open arms. He's running to you. Like if you're reading this right now, you're reading the words of your creator. If you're listening to this podcast, like you're curious. Like he's running to you through this, right? Like he is wanting to meet you in this. It's just time to make the decision. Like today is today a salvation. Like that is the reality. It isn't limited. It isn't exclusive. It isn't only for the rich man and the purple linen, right? It's open to everyone. - Love it. Brandon, final thoughts? - He said it so well. - I don't know. - I wasn't ready 'cause I was just listening. - I know, I'm soaking it in. I'm soaking it in. But it's so true, y'all, that again, the gospel is not just for people that have their life put together because I would be willing to say for the three of us and for our folks behind the camera that we would say, "Hey, there are so many areas

"of our life that are not together." But we come as we are, right? We surrender to a great king who loves us. And so today may be that day for you to make that decision to start following Jesus. And if you have a chaplain, wherever you're at, I would make sure that you know who that person is so that they can help you with those next steps. And then even as we continue to do these podcasts, if you have questions about something we mentioned, about a passage we read, or there's just something about following Jesus that you wanna know more about. As you're writing us letters and letting us pray for you and to hear your story, please ask us those questions. We'll either address those here in the podcast or we'll take that opportunity to answer those in the letter. Y'all, but we love you. We're grateful that you spend your time with us. I know we enjoy getting to do this and our heart is to better help you follow Jesus in your everyday life knowing that he loves you. He cares for you and is waiting for you to come home. Y'all, but for next time, until next time, for Josh Brandon, myself, peace. We'll see you next week. [BLANK_AUDIO]