The Weight of Leadership with JD Greear

There's always something else out there. One of my mentors told me, he said, you know, you said, you need to slay the God of potential in your life because potential or all the things you think you could do, um, calling is what God has actually asked you to do. And your call, your calling, your potential may not be the same thing. You know, you may have, you may have potential to do a lot of things. And God's like, that's not what I assigned you to. This is what I assigned you to and be faithful to what I've assigned you to, whether that's the pastor of mega church leader, denomination star in a movie, or you know, be faithful to a small group of people, you know, whatever it is. That's he decides that we decide the faithfulness. Well, Hey crew, it is Adam and Emily. And today you are joining us, listening to the conversation. Let's go, let's go. We have episode 328 today. Happy Wednesday. Happy Thursday. Well, every day, this is coming at you. We're so grateful that you're here joining us for the next 45 minutes or so. And yeah, we just feel really lucky. Yeah. We feel so fortunate that you'd tune in. It never gets old. When I cross paths with someone who says, Hey, I listen to the conversation on a regular basis. Yeah. Uh, specifically when it's not my mom. Yeah. I still love it when my mom says it, because she does listen to episodes from time to time, but, uh, it's, it's truly an honor that you'd tune in.

Yes. And the next couple of weeks, this is our last episode until the new year. So we're taking a couple of weeks off, doing a little, little rest. Yeah. We're doing a little rest. It's Christmas time. This is one of two times I do this during the week of Thanksgiving and the week after Christmas that I totally forget who I am, what day it is. It's awesome. So we're taking two weeks off, but also, uh, in the new year, we are hitting reset on the podcast. It's not even going to be called the conversation anymore. Oh, you're, you're, you're, oh, wow. We're switching it up. We are hitting the reset, uh, reset button. And I'm really excited about what's to come. Yeah. So that's a teaser. Last week, we gave away a couple of gift cards to Tommy John, which is a partner of the conversation. So if you are Mandy, Angie, or Creighton, I emailed you and please let me know your best mailing address. And I will get those sent out to you. ASAP. You are the three luckiest people because Tommy John is incredible. I just ordered some for my husband. I don't know if I told you that. Yup. Oh my gosh. Hopefully he's not listening.

Cause it's his Christmas present. Hopefully he's not listening. It's it's the best Santa's bringing it for him, Sam. You're you're in, you're in luck because it's, it's a great present. Before we go any further, there are some awesome partners that help make the conversation possible. Adam, will you share about our partners? Yeah. Our first partner is first interstate bank. I've been doing my own personal banking with first interstate since 2007. That's insane. Uh, their mission is to help people and their money work better together. They have over 300 locations throughout 14 different states from Arizona to Colorado, Washington state to the great state of South Dakota for more information and to find a location near you visit first interstate bank.com. Our second partner is Vern Idy Mitsubishi. Vern Idy motor cars is a growing employee owned company that strives to deliver dreams and transform lives and their goal is excellence in everything that they do. And the longer I know Vern Idy, the more I absolutely love them. If you are looking for a outlander, like I drive a Honda CRV, like my wife drives literally Honda, Ford, Chevy, GMC, you name the makeup vehicle. They're going to have it. No matter where you live, they'll ship it to you. Go visit Vern Idy.com. You won't regret it. Christmas. If you need a vehicle, Vern Idy.com. Perfect. Thank you for that. Today's episode, we had JD Greer on.

Let's go. You just give us a little recap, what your favorite moments were, what your favorite things that you guys talked about. Yeah. So JD is a guy that I have never crossed paths with before this, this interview, which I'm almost shocked that I haven't. He, at one point was kind of the lead person of the Southern Baptist, uh, which is not kind of a normal thing in this part of the country, but in other parts of the country, it's a massive thing. Uh, so, uh, and he's also just kind of a thought leader in the church. And so like the church. So he was somebody that I've really, really wanted to connect with. So we talked about the complexities of leadership. We talked about how to engage and lead as pastors, business leaders in a really, uh, divided world, which I thought was really, really interesting. Uh, and just, I just really enjoyed this conversation. Um, he's a little bit more on the conservative end. You'll, you'll see that in the theology and some of the things he says, but a guy that I just really, really appreciate and respected. So on that note, sit back, relax, and enjoy. The cliff notes version of you JD for so much of my audience will be brand new to you. Uh, the cliff. It's version. Who are you? Where are you from? Originally? Just work wise. Jesus wise. I'm born in West Virginia, born in West Virginia. Um, uh, the Coons can't had us. Cause I'm a great, great, great, great, great nephew of Davy freaking Crockett. Okay. So that's the, yeah, I would claim that every day of the week. That's good. Right. So, um, but, but I was a missionary in Indonesia to start out with,

and then ended up as a pastor here in the triangle Raleigh Durham area. Um, college ministry, Gen Z millennials, they're, they're a big part. Our, our church is, you know, I mean, it's a big church and the majority of it is, you know, in that kind of age group. So it's a real thing of ours. Um, I'm, uh, I mean, none of this stuff you need to say on my behalf, but just if it's helpful. Um, I mean, I've been president of the SPC, which is three of the 37 of the longest three years of my life where those years I was president. And then, um, I'm on the corporate board at Chick-fil-A right now, which some people find interesting. Um, yeah, I know. Yeah. They, they, I'm on a board of eight. Three of us are last named Kathy. Those are the rich ones. Five of us are outside directors and most of them are like, you know, former CEO of home Depot and, but then they want to pastor. And so I fill that role. Yeah. So it's, it's a fun, a fun assignment. And then our goal is to plant a thousand churches. We're on church number 614 out of those thousand out of our church. So, you know, almost, almost at the end of our goal. Well, not quite, but you know, we're, we're headed toward the end of our goal. What, what a leadership wise, I feel like you have gotten an education like no one's business from the denomination that, that role, uh, one or two things leadership wise that you learn there. Um, you know, uh, there's been so much, by the way, there's been so many times where I'm like, Jesus, take the wheel. Like, I mean, I, again, we don't know each other, but I've prayed for you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. The, um, I always say there's two SBCs and I think this is helpful for pastors to know because there's, there's kind of two groups in your church too. There's the loud kind that are on social media and then there's the actual,

you know, people that, I mean, I, I don't mean this derogatory, but the, the sheep, you know, that, and, and sometimes I felt like, you know, I would be like, I'd be so discouraged because of just the, you know, all this stuff. And, and, but then I get to these places, a big, you know, whether it's a state convention meeting or something and just sweet people who love Jesus and want to reach their community. And, you know, I'm like, you know, we have to be involved in these things simply. So it's for their sake. It's like they want, you know, they're not open to all the social media, uh, you know, the, the, the flick, the, the, there's the flack flying back and forth. You know, I'm like, you know, you gotta, you gotta be willing to put up with some of that for the sake of, of, of, of the ones God's called you to lead. Hyrulene is the one who's like, you know what? It's tough. I'm out. And I'm like, yeah, so I actually, it was, you know, I sort of say it jokingly that it was tough. Um, it was, but I enjoyed it. Um, I would do it again. I'm not putting my hat in the ring, but I'm just saying, you know, if the situation were ever correct, you know, I didn't hate it so that I'd be like, I would never do that again. I just, you know, I, I enjoy serving the church in whatever ways that, you know, how do you, how do you, and I, again, we got a lot of business leaders, even like, how do you not get calloused like from that? Like just the constant stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, constant stuff, uh, you know, and challenges and like you made the wrong answer, wrong decision. Like how do you, how do you stay human? Yeah. Uh, you know, the practical answer is that there is a set of people whose opinions really, really matter to me. And I try to listen and be in community with them, which means that a lot of times I, you know, they'll,

they'll tell me I'm wrong and I have to be willing to do that. You know, I need to have peer community, but because my wife and I've taken a lot of time to build that peer community here, um, because of that, we are able to, you know, kind of withstand a lot of the stuff that just comes from people that, you know, you realize that they don't know you and you're just a public figure to them. And, and so I'm always like, if you don't do the one, you won't be able to resist the other. It's because the right people think the right things about me that I'm able to not be as susceptible to the, to the other ones. My wife has a great statement. It's just been so helpful. She's like fame is making ourselves accessible to people we don't really care about at the expense of those that we do. Um, and so, yeah, as we've grown those relationships, that's probably been the thing that's the most helpful. Is a little bit more like probably a personal question for me. Like I, uh, that the church I pastor is becoming larger and larger in us, uh, relatively smaller community. And I, I find myself, come in more of an introvert, which is not my norm. I'm an extrovert. Any advice there? Like even at one point this week, I called my dad and I was like, I'm tempted to just kind of get in a car and drive to your place, which is in the middle of nowhere. You know, and like, that's a good thing that you want to see your parents, but it's a bad thing if you're doing it to hide. Like just because you're sick of humans.

Any advice? Man, I mean, I feel like we all deal with that in different ways. I mean, you know, it's kind of like, you know, people say, I've been at the church I pastor now for 23 years and people say, well, how do you make it that long? I'm like, well, one of my mentors told me to never, never resign when I was either really tired or discouraged. And so the upshot of that has been, I've never had a chance to retire because I'm always tired and discouraged constantly, you know, but with that kind of like, you know, just developing the rhythms, the community, the taking care of yourself, the personal retreats. Honestly, man, killing the idolatry of my own heart really helped me avoid burnout because a lot of the burdens that I felt under was because I had a false sense of what, you know, I needed to be or what I needed to accomplish. And no matter how big your church is, there's always something else out there. One of my mentors told me, he said, you know, he said, you need to slay the God of potential in your life because potential are all the things you think you could do. Calling is what God has actually asked you to do. And you're calling your potential may not be the same thing.

You know, you may have potential to do a lot of things and God's like, that's not what I assigned you to. This is what I assigned you to. And be faithful to what I've assigned you to, whether that's the pastor of mega church, lead a denomination, star in a movie, or, you know, be faithful to a small group of people, you know, whatever it is, he decides that. We decide the faithfulness. Man, that's really good. That's really, really good. Holy cats. Your book, Everyday Revolutionary, might've been written for right now, whatever day it is. I'm like, what the heck? Holy cats. I thought this would be a book that we wouldn't have needed by this time, but I feel like we might need it more than ever. Just in a really quick, the heart of the book, really quick before we hop into things. What would be your heart? The heart of the book is basically that we're in a moment where we need, where Christians wanna know what faithfulness looks like. It's a negative world. And so does that mean simply that we take up our role in the culture war, you know, yard signs, Facebook messages? What I try to show is that faithfulness to Jesus

is not less than clarity about controversial, cultural issues, it's just a lot more. And there's a mission that God gives ordinary Christians as a way of being a revolutionary, overturning the world, but it's not always what you think it is. It's ironic, but it's what Paul calls the quiet life that sets up the loud testimony. So give us one, I got a bunch of questions, but one example of what that looks like, just to kind of help explain, yeah, what you just said. Yeah, so, you know, when you think about like, let me use a biblical example and then I'll apply it. So here's Daniel in the Old Testament. Daniel is so courageous that he is thrown into the lion's den. He's so full of truth. And yet he's so beloved by the king who threw him there that the king stands, you know, outside the lion's den all night long, weeping and hoping against hope that Daniel can make it through the night. I'm like, how do you become like that in our community? I always said, I want our people here in our community to say, we may not believe what those crazy people at Summit Church believe, but thank God they're here because if not, we'd have to raise our taxes. I want us to have that reputation where we don't back down from saying really difficult things. I mean, you know, talking about whether it's the sin of treading on the sanctity of life

or the sin of, you know, just the gender confusion that sometimes the church can be silent on. I don't wanna be silent on any of that stuff, but I want our community, what they have to know about us is to say that was, they were our friends. In fact, the reason that King Darius wept outside of Daniel's lion's den, I don't think it was because he, you know, was just gonna miss Daniel's prophetic rebukes. I think he did it because he was like, Daniel was a real friend to us. He loved us. He wanted to, you know, it's hard for him to imagine Babylon without Daniel. And I think that's the way our community should feel about us. And that's just, like I said, it's not less than clarity on cultural issues. It's just a lot more. And so in the. book, I try to identify the five practices. I call them the five practices of the everyday revolutionary, um, that constitute the quiet life. Um, and again, I don't want quiet life to be misleading because, uh, you know, Paul's the one who used a very quiet life and you're like, Paul, if not the guy that stood before the Ephesian theater and, you know, said you serve gods that are no gods at all. So, I mean, Paul was bold in his testimony, but what I try to show is that it's the quiet life that sets up the loud testimony in Babylon. When you're in a Babylon type of environment,

that's the, it's the life that blesses and multiplies and brings good and prosperity. Seek the prosperity of the city that actually sets up the, the loud testimony. There's a guy named Leslie Newbigin who was a missionary to India for 40 years. Um, and he left in the 1930s, came back in the 1970s. And he said, between then everything had changed in great Britain because he was a missionary from England. And he said the four, the, the, the pastors in great Britain were going to have to learn the skills of the foreign missionary in order to reach their own culture. And he said, one of the primary skills, the missionary knows is that to gain credibility for the gospel, you have to show that the gospel brings a whole new kind of beautiful life that that is. And he said, that's, so that's what Christians have to do in this kind of negative environment that we're in now. Okay. Okay. So stinking good. Okay. So how, how are we to live? I mean, just even the, the last month and a half has been regardless of where a person falls politically, uh, a lot of anger, confusion, whatever, the sadness, uh, as Jesus followers, how do we, how do you process that? So, you know, during this call, there might be the next news story. Like how do we, how do we process, how do we engage, how do we, whatever? Yeah. You know, it's a great question because, um, you know, it's, I mean, the horrific, the assassination with Charlie Kirk, if nothing else, it showed us that there is a group out there who feels, you know, about certain Christian convictions. This is the way that they, they hold them. I don't think the answer is to downplay those convictions. Um, because, uh, I mean, you know, John the Baptist literally stood in front of King Herod and called him out for

sexual sin that was socially accepted and lost his head because of it. Jesus's response was not John, man, you blew it. You wasted your platform. You should have talked about love and mercy and the gospel and avoided the no, he said, that's the greatest prophet ever to live. But I also know that if we allow this cultural moment where a lot of Gen Z is returning to church, if we just allow that to be commandeered by political operatives who merely want to turn it into a voting block, then we're going to have wasted an incredible moment to turn it really to see it become a Jesus movement. And a Jesus movement is not less than boldness on these issues. It just, like I said, it's just a lot more. And there's a lot of, um, you know, I do not want to see in this moment, we don't want to see the, the message of the gospel becomes synonymous with one political party. That's not because there's not a wiser choice in certain elections. It's not because I'm not trying to draw some kind of moral equivalency and say, you know, they're all equally bad. I'm just saying that the message of Jesus is, is, is, is beyond that. And it actually goes, I mean, sometimes it, it will bring together, it will, will, will, will speak truth, but it will bring people that come from opposite sides of the fence together. Right. You can always use the example of, of Jesus's first disciples, Matthew and Simon are described kind of by their political identity, Matthew, the tax collector and Simon, the zealot, which tells you if nothing more, they were divided on the most emotionally charged political issue of their day. What do you do about Roman occupation? And, um, you know, the, the, the, the tax collectors are like, Rome's a God given authority. We got to submit to them. And, and, uh, you know, the zealots are like, no, they're usurpers. We got to drive them out. That's what, you know,

faithfulness to God means being like Samson and driving them out. And, uh, they both had Bible verses. They backed it up with, um, what's interesting is that Jesus brought them both in, into his group of disciples. And then, you know, they had to have some spicy conversations around that campfire, right? Jesus made them room together, you know, cause like, you know, you go back by their tent late at night and they got their fingers in each other's faces, you know, arguing like a couple of seminary students about Calvinism and they're just going at it. Um, and you know, I, and just to be, you know, Frank, Jesus's kingdom teaching would undermine both of them on like on, on their approach. So both of them changed and you could argue Simon's even more than Matthew's. But the point was that he did not make that political identification. He did not make that a barrier to them coming to learn and hear about Jesus. Um, I always say that political realignment is downstream. aim from discipleship. It shouldn't be the gateway to it. And so it means that there's a message and a call to discipleship that isn't muted about controversial things, but avoids things that might get in the way, because I want to be able to say to our community, and we live in a very purple city here, I want to be able to say in our community that that's not a barrier. There's a story, and I hope I'm not answering this question too long. This is great. Story I tell in the book about a young lady who, the first time I heard of her, or knew who she was,

was she sent me a letter of a picture of her being baptized at our church. And I was like, you know, she was telling me her story. I hadn't been there the day that she got baptized. She said, we've actually met. She said, you posted something on Twitter, or X, about your being a pro-life, you know, sanctity of life. She said, it made me mad. And so I sniped it back at you on Twitter. I never respond on Twitter to people. I mean, just never. I don't know why. In that moment, I did. I mean, I was like, so I went back at her, and she went back at me, and we went back four or five times. And it kind of died off, and that was the end of it, I thought. Well, her name, I remember this, on Twitter was something like Left Linda. That's not the exact name. Her political identification was in her title. And in this letter, picture her being baptized. She said, I was Left Linda. And she said, some friends of mine invited me to come to the church. She goes, immediately, I discerned that you and I were on the opposite sides of questions like the sanctity of life, and gender, and marriage, and that kind of stuff. And she said, but make a long story short, you know,

she came, she heard the gospel, she got saved. And basically, she was like, now I'm rethinking everything. This is a picture of my baptism. She said, I just want to thank you that even though you said things that I didn't agree with, you were very clear about some of these moral issues, I want to thank you that you didn't turn this into the Republican church. Because if this had been known as the Republican church, she said, I never would have stepped foot in, I wouldn't have heard the gospel, and I wouldn't have been saved. And I thought, OK, this is, to me, this is the balance I want to go for, clarity, John the Baptist clarity around these kinds of issues, but in a way like Jesus, that avoided this unnecessary gateway to people hearing the gospel. Again, recognizing that political realignment, which almost always happens when somebody comes to Christ, political realignment is not the gateway to discipleship, it's downstream from it. OK, so thanks for sharing all of that. And people listening might agree, might disagree with what you just shared, but I feel like, you know, even just something I've been feeling is Lincoln, the American flag with Christianity, just I've been wrestling with like, gosh, I'm a Jesus follower first.

And even my own politics, I'm like, I know where I like politically, even on non biblical issues, per se, I know where I'm at. And yet I'm like, I'm trying to constantly figure out like, but I'm a Jesus follower first. And yeah, I've just been wrestling with that a whole bunch. And then I love like, what you talked about is like, living it, basically living it before, but you know, that quiet faith before getting loud. And something I've been feeling is every Tom, Dick and Harry is now like, you know, this loud Christian and I'm like, wait a second, gosh, you got a lot of things in your personal life to deal with before kind of like, everything should be this and this. And so I've been feeling that even just about the church is like, man, that quiet foundation, that character, that faithfulness over years is something that is feeling like it's missing a little bit. And not wanting to miss this cultural moment is something I've been wrestling with too. It's like, this is an opportunity, like regardless of where you're at, people are drawn to Jesus right now. They're coming back to the church and how do we steward this really, really well? Yeah, there's two reasons, if I could just- Yeah, this is so good, JD. There's two reasons I would always, even if,

let's just assume, just for sake of argument that one, let's assume that one political party or one in a certain election, a certain candidate is way better than the other one. Let's just assume that. Even then, there's a reason I would not wanna tie Jesus's name and the reputation of the church to a political party or a political movement. There's two reasons. One, inevitably, there's a lot of things in that political platform about which Christians don't have to be necessarily agreed on. I mean, we need to be agreed on things like the sanctity of life and gender and marriage and all this. things, but I don't know of a single verse in the Bible that tells me the ideal marginal tax rate or the number of refugees that you're supposed to let into a, you know, a compassionate. We can agree that we should be compassionate. We can agree with there should be justice, but, you know, we don't, there's a lot of things like that, that what's the right posture to global warming and healthcare and gun control. I always tell our congregation, I'm like, I have an opinion on global warming. I think it's the right one. I think it's, you know, informed by my Christian worldview. If I didn't, I wouldn't have the opinion, but, but because there's not a direct Bible verse that tells me how to feel about global warming, I'm like, I might be wrong in my opinion on global warming, but I am not wrong about the gospel. So I will not let my opinions on the former keep people from hearing me on the latter. So that's one reason I don't want to do that. The second reason is because when you make Jesus's name synonymous with a political party, you basically in the eyes of the world, make him responsible for everything in that political party. And, you know, the third commandment is that we should not take the Lord's name in vain, which most of us have recognized it means more than just, you know, not saying it as a cuss word. What it means is you don't

ever associate Jesus's name with something that is unworthy of him. And when you are associating Jesus's name with politicians and a political party, you are taking his name in vain because now you have made him responsible for all those things that aren't necessarily him. You know, I realize in politics, sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils, but the lesser of two evils is still evil. And we can't associate any evil with the name of Jesus. The name of Jesus is the most precious possession of the church. It is the only way that people can be saved. So we have to keep the name of Jesus clean and the way of salvation clear. And so for that reason, I'm like, in this moment, yes, preach truth. One of the things that people loved about Charlie Kirk is they loved that he, you know, that he would speak truth on some of these things. So yes, speak truth in the midst of a confused and chaotic generation, speak truth, but we have to keep the name of Jesus holy and we have to make sure that we don't put unnecessary obstacles in the way of the gospel. Because our job, ultimately our political reformations here in the United States, they always come whenever the gospel is preached, but they're downstream from not the gateway to discipleship. Yeah. JD, what would you say advice to a business leader, to a pastor, to Christ follower, when to speak on like, like when to speak on something and when not to? You know what I mean? Like something controversial or are you talking about a current event? Yeah. Like, I mean, it's like, yeah, I like, are we new stations? And again, like as a pastor, I've had different points when, uh, the people on the right side of my church asking left side and it's, for me, it's, it's, uh, almost humorous in how both sides so often sound exactly the same. You're just like, Oh my gosh, what annoys you about them is the same thing that annoys them about you. But like, well, how do you, like, how do you know, like, how do you discern that yourself? Yeah, there's no, I mean, obviously there's no, um, there's no like, you know, magic, um, that's one of the reasons God gave us, you know, a plurality of leadership elders, which I'd be sensitive to the Holy spirit. I mean, ultimately I'm a pastor of people, which means I'm thinking, what do our people need to hear when the majority of our congregation is confused or hurting, or when even let's just say a significant part of our conversation, our congregation, then I feel like I've got to speak to it. Um, when the stuff happened back in 2020 with George Floyd, our church is majority white church, but we have a substantial about 20% of our congregation is not white and man, they were hurting and confused. And yeah, there were, I got, you know, letters from the white members saying, why are we talking

about this? You know, we, we should just mention it, pray and move on. But I'm like, well, a lot of our black brothers and sisters right now are really hurting in this and they're confused and fearful. I'm not trying to get in there and, and, you know, prescribe public policy and talk about what needs to be, but I at least want to enter in and grieve with them and say, Hey, I'm here as the body of Christ. And we, we want to hurt together. And, um, and we want to, you know, walk through this together. Well, it sort of happened in reverse with, with recently with the assassination. It's like, man, we just had a lot of people that, you know, felt in different ways. And I'm like, Hey, this is something we just need to grieve. And there's a time where we can critique and affirm and all this kind of stuff. And, but in this moment, we need to grieve and I need to enter in and just, and just, um, mourn with those who mourn and weep with, with those who weep. And so, uh, again, I don't think there's a right, you know, like, here's how you, here's your, your, your automatic dial of what to do, but it's. It's good to be in touch with a lot of people in your congregation, especially those people overlook and just, and just enter in with them. The last thing I'll say is one of the reasons I am very committed to, you know, mostly just trying to preach in what they call an expository way through the Bible is because that allows me, that allows God to choose what we're talking about in a way. And I can just say when somebody says, well, why are you talking about this? Well, it's because it's in the Bible and I'm just, you know, I'm talking about it because God wrote it. I didn't decide what goes in there. God did. And so it kind of gives you a, um, a cover. Well, I hate to say covering, but it kind of gives you the, it gives you his authority when you're preaching. That's so, so good. What would you say, um, a challenge to Jesus followers right now? Like if you had a specific challenge to Christ followers, is there anything that you can, whether it's about cultural events, whether it's just about this moment in time, any, anything that you would say? Like, man, this is what I'm really, yeah, man, this is a crazy time to be alive. And it probably feels like, you know, I mean, we're in a new world. Yeah. Um, you know, some people are calling this the negative world as it relates to Christianity. The positive world was where Christianity was seen to be a social asset. The neutral world is where it became like one option among many in our culture. The negative world is where it's now seen to be part of the Yeah. And, um, that's a challenge. I grieve a lot of that. I mean, I, you know, there was a lot of advantages to being in a society where everybody shared all the same worldview convictions,

but the new Testament is written in large part for Christians in an age like ours. Yeah. And that's kind of what everyday revolutionary is about is like, what are the skills? What are the tactics? What are the, what are the things that, that we do to make Jesus's name famous here? Honestly, I don't think I'd trade any season of ministry ever for what we get to be in right now, because we're in a time where, um, one of the reasons Gen Z is returning to church is because they've seen how the crumbling foundations of secular progressivism of the crumbling foundations of, you know, let's just call it woke ideology. They're seeing how that's a crumbling foundation and they're looking for something. I don't want to turn them just into a political block. What I want to show them is that there is a solid foundation and he goes, it's not less than clarity in the culture war. It's just a lot more that it's a savior who's filled with grace and truth, who loves the center, who doesn't just settle for creating, you know, cultural beachheads and enemies, um, that, you know, they, they goes and he embraces people and is in this ministry of reconciliation. Jesus, you know, his description was he was filled with grace and truth. He wasn't, you know, half full of each. He didn't toggle back and forth grace mode. Now I'm in truth mode. You know, he was like, he was simultaneously filled with grace and truth. Um, grace without truth, liberalism, truth without grace. It's a damning fundamentalism. Um, both of them are what killed Jesus. Like, you know, the, the Jesus crucifixion was a joint project between the so-called secular left and the religious right. I'm not saying they're morally equal. I'm just saying they both had beef with Jesus. And if you're going to, if you're going to be Jesus in this, you're going to be, again, you're going to be bold with truth like Daniel was filled with grace so that, that what, what characterizes you as your love for your community, that you would lay down your lives for them. JD, uh, last question, anything that like, uh, you're currently just leadership wise or whatever impact wise that you're learning, whether it's, uh, or listening to, or something that's keeping you sharp or could be anything from physical, something workout wise to reading. Is there anything that you're like, man, these two things, like check these out. Man, that's great. I mean, I've, uh, I'm kind of a creature of habit. And so, you know, I do my, like, you know, my CrossFit workout and, and, uh, you know, my hobbies are reading. I mean, my wife jokes when she says, I need you to find a hobby, you know, do something, but I just, you know, I kind of like, I enjoy reading and wide, right. Big into just different kinds of

history. I'll get kind of fixated on one Epic of history and just kind of go deep in it. Uh, recently I've been reading about colonial America. It's just been fascinating to me, just finished a book on the Salem witch trials, which was disturbing and fascinating all at the same time. Um, let's see, I'm sure for like anything leadership wise. Um, yeah. Um, you know, I get to be in, in some of the circles, God's blessed me to run in. I get to be around some of the, what I feel like are the greatest leaders, both in the Christian world and the business world and just, man, learning what, what, you know, what makes people tick is just, it's just amazing. Being around that Chick-fil-A crew. Holy cat. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, it really is just like to see, you know, kind of people that are taking, that are fierce in their love for Jesus, but, you know, are in a secular marketplace and how they minister. Um, and what they do and, or, and cause it's not a ministry, but it's, you know, how, how do you glorify God in the marketplace? Um, you know, it's like, uh, uh, Dan, Kathy, who's the, you know, he was, uh, Kathy family. I've never met Dan. I've been in the same room with Bubba. Yeah. Right. Right. That guy's amazing. But, um, yeah, he's, they say, um, Dan says, uh, Jesus tells us to let our light so shine before man that they may taste your waffle fries and glorify your father in heaven, you know, and so excellence in business. Um, so anyway, it's, it's, it's great. So that's good. The last question, do you, do you have side hustles? And if not, like, uh, if so, like, how do you, how do you do it all? Like, uh, again, this is a personal question I'm asking. Do you have side hustles? What does that, what does that look like if you're willing to share and how do you juggle it all? If you do? Yeah. You know, I, I did a life mapping, life assessment thing. I know you, you, maybe some of your hearers have, um, I've heard about that kind of stuff where you just, it's basically an evaluation of your life. And, um, it was so helpful cause we figured out that about 65% of my work week is focused on the church. Um, like the church that I passed or summit church. Um, the other, uh, 35% is somewhat discretionary. That's where things like being on the Chick-fil-A board or, um, I'm, I'm, I'm over this collaborative, which is basically our vision of planting churches. We planted about a hundred domestically and then about 500 overseas. And so I invest a lot of time there, obviously writing, you know, this sort of thing. Um, I found that when I can kind of delineate the boundaries, cause there's always more to do, you know, Ecclesiastes says that there's always more to do,

um, that I can just say, look, I've got my walk with the Lord and my family, my kids, then the church I pastor specifically within the church, the preaching and teaching and vision are the big things. And I can just say, you know, as I, as I make big time for these things, then I can boundarize the others and say, okay, this is what I do all the time. I've got, how can I invest it best to get the best EROI, eternal return on investment. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today and listening to Adam and JD's conversation. Again, we're so grateful for each and every one of you. And again, this is not possible without you. So it wouldn't be possible without you. Huge shout out to JD. Love the time with you, JD. Thanks to our partners, First Interstate Bank and Vernity Motorcars. Love and appreciate both of you so, so much. Have an awesome rest of your day and a great, great Christmas. Thanks guys.