The Secret to Better Conversations with J.R. Briggs

Hey crew, it's Adam. I'm a husband, a father, a pastor, a follower of Jesus who, just like you, is trying to learn what it looks like to fully live and follow Jesus in the middle of real life. It is one thing to be someone on Sundays, but what about Monday through Saturday? And so here, we're gonna talk about faith and making a difference in the messy, ordinary moments where it's often the hardest to live out. Some weeks, I'll share what God is teaching me. Other weeks, I'll sit down with leaders, pastors, athletes, friends. There's no fluff, just encouragement and truth for your life between Sundays. I'm so glad you're here. Well, hey crew, what is up? Welcome back to Life Between Sundays. It is Adam and Emily sitting in these awesome sick chairs that we got here. They're so modern, so manly. So modern and manly, and yeah, I just really feel like I should be smoking a cigar when I'm sitting in this chair. Or something. I've been watching horse races. Oh gosh. We are so excited that you are joining us today. We have episode 348. And today we had J.R. Briggs on the podcast.

So yeah, looking forward to hearing that conversation too. But before we get there, do you got any high low Buffalo that you would like to share? High low Buffalo. A high was getting to see my son. He is interning at VU Church in Miami, Florida. Their pastor is Rich Wilkerson Jr. Bought a ticket to go to VUCon. It's their yearly conference before my son even thought about going into that. So that was kind of cool. Oh, you bought that before he was gonna be there? Yeah, I had no idea. Oh, I didn't even know that. Got the ticket, made the plans. It's just crazy how that all worked out. But the high was seeing my son. I didn't realize how much I missed him until 30 minutes before I was about to see him. I was giddy. I'm like, oh my gosh, I have missed this kid horribly. But just the chance to be with him and also just to hear some amazing speakers. VUCon is incredible. Rich Wilkerson Jr. and the entire church at VU is amazing. Got to hear Abby Gamboa in person. She's my daughter's, one of her favorite worship leaders. She brought the house down. And I just think it's a reminder,

like it's so good to have those moments. You can't live for mountaintop moments of your faith. Like if you're just living for them, it's not sustainable. But every so often, it's just so good to put yourself in a place that's just so intentionally filled with the Holy Spirit. And so that was definitely a high for me. So, okay, random question. The church's name is VU. VU. Where the heck did that? It's short for Rendezvous. And it was when Rich Wilkerson Jr. was young, him and his wife started these gatherings. And just like, there were like parties basically for Jesus. Oh. Because that's not really what I think of when I think of rendezvous. And so they did that and created VU Church years later. So they had these gatherings. Rich just has a gift of connecting with young adults and influential people as well. And so they would just start having these gatherings and then it turned into a church. Oh, cool. And yeah, I can't say enough. I don't know Rich personally, blown away by his humility, by his kindness, by his love for Jesus. Well, seriously, we need to get them on the podcast, by the way, let's try to set that up.

Rich or his wife, Dawn Cherie. They were both just amazing people. No, that sounds like a great weekend. Miami just seems like quite an interesting place. It's quite the place. My relationship with Jesus is tested just walking through the streets of Miami. I've never been there, but I've heard. Yeah, it's a fun place to visit. I'm not sure I would ever be able to live there, but it was awesome. So that was my high. I don't really don't know if I have a buff low or a low. I don't have any lows. My life has been awesome. My son Anderson and I just have had some really cool, holy moments in the last two and a half weeks. And so I thank God for that. So just very, very grateful. And just the church is alive and well. Like I just think like I'm talking about the worldwide church and even like the future of our church. There were so many high schoolers, 20 somethings at this gathering and I'm like, we're gonna be just fine. Yeah, there's a lot of leaders out there for sure. God's doing cool things. Yeah, super cool. Today you had J.R. Briggs. Yes.

He is an author, a speaker, a teacher. I think he does lots and lots of different things, different avenues, super smart guy. Tell us about your conversation. I think this is an episode everybody needs to hear for so many different reasons. We talk about the art of asking good questions. If you're somebody that like, I don't know how to connect with people, specifically since COVID, I think we really struggle with making friendships and carrying conversation. I just think he gives some really practical advice on how to ask good questions. friends with coworkers, with mentors. We also talk about the difference between a shift question and a support question or a shift response or a support response. I think this is so fascinating. And I think it's really, really helpful for us when we're talking with people. Are we making it about us or about the other person? He also at the very end, he talks about the question that every leader should ask themselves. And I just think that's really, really important. I ended up sharing it. This is an episode I want to share with all of the pastors that I coach because I just think it's so important for them to wrestle with that. So sit back, relax. You're going to love this conversation. Enjoy. If you want to share the Cliff Notes version of your story, your background, you can share career-wise, faith-wise, kind of what led you to where you're at today. Sure. Yeah. So I grew up in Charlottesville, Virginia. Before that, I spent my early years. I lived in Puerto Rico. My brother was born there. And so we have some of that background, but yeah, I grew up in a wonderful home. Really grateful for the example of my parents and their faith and really trusted them a great deal. I felt a call to ministry in sixth grade, which I know is not all that common. The clouds didn't roll back. There wasn't the hallelujah chorus with the spotlight, but God made that very clear. This is the most important thing.

Now the expression of that calling has changed, but I've always remained in ministry, whether it's on staff with mega churches, church plants, house church networks. Now I get a chance to pastor pastors, lead leaders, and shepherd shepherds through my calling now. So I love being able to learn, grow, and then squeeze out the sponge of what I've learned among others who are hungry and faithful and available and teachable. And so I just love being able to do that. I love what I get to do every day to help grow fruit on other people's trees. And the people we love working with are hungry kingdom leaders. So that may be just a brief snapshot of who I am and my calling. I love that. And I shared this before we got on. I came across you through Keri Newhoff. And let's include a link, by the way, for that episode. That was so good. I had gotten your book and it ended up on my shelf. And then I heard that interview and it came back off my shelf. And then our mutual friend Krista made this connection to make this possible. I'm like, gosh, yeah, I devoured the book. And so I'm just really, really excited to have you on. Maybe to start, question asking, how and why did that become a focal point for you in any way, shape, or form, even away from the book? Why questions? As I mentioned, I grew up in a fantastic home and my parents were great at asking questions, especially my dad. And I just, I would observe it around the dinner table or when we'd be on our way to Lowe's on Saturday morning or whatever we would be, my dad was always willing to say, so what do you think about this? How would you respond in a situation like that? You know, Jerry, what's your favorite, you know, whatever. And it wasn't just with my brother and me, it was also, I noticed him with our neighbors and at parties and in the North Exit Church. And I would just listen and observe and realize, man, people love sharing. And these conversations as I'm watching these adults, it's really fascinating when you ask them good questions. So that was the first thing. The second thing is, as I got older, I began to notice that the really quality people, the people that seem to give life to others, they lived inspiring lives, lives that I wanted to emulate, were those that asked other people great questions. And conversely, I noticed the people who live small lives, self-centered lives, uninspired lives, didn't ask questions. And I began to notice that difference. One was very intentional and specific and thoughtful about questions, and one wasn't. And I said, if I'm gonna pick which group of people I wanna be like, it's this group over here. That was the second thing. And then the third thing is,

I just began to do a study of the questions of Jesus. And I took a red letter edition of my Bible, circled all the red question marks, and found there were just myriad of red question marks. And I thought, huh, Jesus, yes, is the way, the truth, and the life. He's often pitched as the answer man, but no one pitches him as the question man. And this guy asked a ton of questions. And so it was in my doctor of ministry degree that I actually began to do my dissertation on equipping leaders to ask better questions in the way of Jesus. And one of the things I noticed was, we study his miracles. We study his teachings, we study his parables, we study his interactions, but we don't study his questions. And yet he asked over 300 of them. He was asked over 180, and he only directly answered five of them. And all these things were just blowing my mind. And I thought, you know, I better start paying attention to this. So this is a long answer to your short question, Adam, but those three factors, my dad noticing the difference between inspiring and uninspiring people and Jesus's questions were what stoked something in me to say, you know what? I need to pay attention to this. I need to grow in this. And I have a passion then to teach other leaders how to ask better questions too. I love this. I was hoping to hold some practical stuff till later. I have to ask one practical question, specifically with your dad. I just love, like you mentioned that about your dad. Any, I don't know what even the question is.

Any takeaways from your dad that you've implemented in your life that we should implement? Like, I feel like I'm probably the most in tune with my kids. I have four kids. My oldest is, will be in his second year of college. My youngest is going to be in middle school. And I'm wanting to be like your dad, basically. Any practical advice in that area quick? Yeah. One of the things I appreciate about my dad, he's always been curious. He's always been humble enough to learn from anybody, even though he was a financial manager for General Electric, you know, was very successful, but you would never know. And he always, and he's an Enneagram five, so he's always learning and researching things. And I think that helped. But when I went off to college, Adam, it was really interesting. I said, yeah, my dad asked me this. And my dad and I were talking about that. And my friends would look at me like, your dad asks you questions? And I kind of looked at him like, yeah, doesn't your dad? And no, and I began to realize how rare that was and to become very thankful that I had a father that really cared what I thought, even at a very young age. And so he just made it a practice that wherever we were going, running errands,

even the silliest of things, we just got to go to the store to pick this up. He just throw one or both of us, my brother and I in the car and would not just let it be silent or have the radio on or whatever. Like he really would just ask things from sports to faith, to politics, to friendships at school. And I think he just, that element of always being curious really meant a lot to me of feeling like, wow, my dad actually cares what I think. And that made a great impression on me. And my mom too, I don't wanna negate that, but I think I really picked that up from my dad, which is why I dedicated the book to him. Just love that. Okay, so again, I devoured your book. If you, the only complaint, if you wanna sell an underlined version next time, just to save my pen and pencil, I'd be, I don't wanna be picky, but just, I'd be grateful for that. But no, so you, early on, you mentioned that for 12 years, you were mentored by Eugene Peterson. You were a balloon handler in the Thanksgiving Day Parade. I don't even know how that happens. And just, and you just had people ask you,

how in the world did you get a chance to do that? And your answer was always the same. I just asked. I just asked. Anything you wanna add to that? Cause man, I feel like that's, I feel like that there's a secret sauce in there. It is so simple. You're like, there's no way it could possibly just work. And this comes up a lot and a lot of podcast hosts have asked me this. And I said, yeah, it hit me when I was in college. I had a chance to study in Jerusalem at a place called Jerusalem University College for a semester abroad. And it changed my life. And I always had wanted to go fishing on the Sea of Galilee and saw a fisherman where our class was on a field trip on the Sea of Galilee. And happened to know this commercial fisherman come in and I thought, oh, I wonder if I could go ask him if I can go with him. And I thought, Briggs, no way. They're not gonna let some American college student just go fishing with him for the day. And it caught me. I mean, two questions hit me in that moment on the shore of the Sea of Galilee. And I thought, what is the worst thing the captain of that ship can say?

No, heck no, get out of my face. What are you crazy? And my second question was, can I handle that? And I'm like, yeah, I'm never gonna meet this guy again. I'm never gonna see him. I can handle a no. I'm gonna go ask. So I just went up to one of the crew, members of the crew, and I just said, where's your captain? And they said, oh, he's right over here. His name is Menachem. So I went up, I said, Menachem, my name is. they are. I've always wanted to go fishing on the Sea of Galilee. Tomorrow. Can I go with you? I'll pay you 50 bucks. You can put me to work. I just, I would love this opportunity to go fishing for the day. And he looked at me, said, I don't want your money. Meet me here at six o'clock tomorrow morning and you can join us. And I thought, Oh my gosh, like my dream's going to come true. This is pretty awesome. And that's, that's, that's all it was, was just asking. And I've kind of taken that on, um, throughout my lifetime. That's how I mentored or was mentored by Eugene Peterson. I got to be a mascot for a AAA minor league baseball team for three and a half seasons. I mean, just all these things. I said, what's the worst I could say? No. Can I ask, can I handle a no? Yep. And so I think, I don't want to take this too far, but of course, what does Jesus say? You do not have because you do not ask. And of course he's talking about prayer. Um, but, and I've done that in prayer, but I've also done that to say, Hey, and I'm not trying to take advantage or be selfish. Sometimes I'm asking on behalf of other people, but I just find that, you know, don't be a no for somebody like let someone else say they're no.

And it's amazing how many times people go, yeah, sure. That'd be great. And I go, really? Um, and so I just, I just encourage people to have some courage and some foresight to just ask what's the worst someone can say. And can I handle that? Can I handle a no? And, uh, it's amazing some of the doors that have opened up and other people that have asked me and I said, sure. Yeah. I admire that courage. Come join me. You know, yeah, let's do it. And so it makes life a lot more interesting and exciting when you get a chance to do that. Oh, I just want to pause here. Like there are so many people who have missed out cause they haven't asked the question. I mean, so many, so many like experiences, even business wise, they've missed out on so much business. They've missed out ministry wise. They've missed out seeing God move wise. And I love how even not just in with other human beings, but with God himself. And, um, maybe honestly, if you're listening, what is that thing? Big, small, whatever it is that you just need to go ask. I would just challenge you pause, stop listening to the both of us and just go do it. And there's something fun when you finally get over that barrier, just like you at the Sea of Galilee where you're like, what's the worst that could happen? I told, I told my kids the other day, the amount of no's that I get, I get told no so many times because, uh, I'll just, I'll just constantly ask. And it's, it's amazing what takes place. Yeah. Yes. And, and Adam, just as a bit of a caveat here too, there are times where I get a no, just like you've got no's. I've got a huge collection of no's. Um,

and my job is not then to if the door is locked to break down or kick down the door, right? Like you just say, okay, that's fine. Um, and just because the door's unlocked, I could walk through it and realize this a whole nother room full of 20 more doors. And I'm gonna go, you know what? Maybe not the right time. So another good question to ask is what's my motive. If my motive is self-centered or greedy or whatever, maybe it's best for me not to ask. But if I go, no, I wanted to do this, this would be fun. I'd learn a lot. This is what open up some opportunities. Okay. And so, um, one more caveat, Adam, if I could is sometimes what I say, what's the worst they could say? No. There are sometimes I've been emotionally wobbly where I've said, you know what? I'm not sure I can handle a no right now. And so I'm not going to ask, you know, and sometimes that's good. And sometimes it's wisdom. And other times it's like, yeah, I'm just a little bit emotionally fragile right here. And I think a no would really crush me. And so then I don't ask. So it just becomes a good filter on some of these opportunities. Oh, I love that. That honesty. Take that to the bank. Well, I'm, I'm the same way. There's, there's, I, there's times where it's like my, my skin's too thin. Like I, I feel like a fourth grader and, uh, man, I, this will destroy me and it's super small or whatever. So that's, that's such a good caveat. What, one last heart thing. And you, you've maybe said it already a little bit. Um, you know, even when we're young, we're asking all kinds of questions. Older we get the less questions we ask. How do we reverse that? Like, is there any, any hard things that you would say? You've, you've mentioned humility. I think that's, that's huge. Gosh, the day I become an expert at anything, I hope it's the day that Jesus just decides it's time for me to no longer be on this earth. Um, cause I, I've, I'm such a work in progress, constantly learning.

So humility is one thing. Anything, anything else heart wise that, that changes that. Before we go any further, there are just some awesome partners. We'd like to thank for making life between Sundays possible. Adam, who we got for partners. Yeah. Our partners today are incredible. Our first partner is Mission Haiti. I've personally. I've personally known and supported Mission Haiti for over a decade. I've also been able to go to Haiti multiple times and see the work that they do firsthand. It's truly phenomenal. The work Mission Haiti is doing, their goal is this, to love Jesus, love others, and make disciples in the country of Haiti. And one of their biggest ministries is their student education program, Embrace the Church I'm at. We have three schools in Haiti, and I think we're currently sponsoring 650-some kids. And these sponsorships are life-changing. I mean, it changes everything about them, and so I want to encourage you to consider sponsoring a child through Mission Haiti. Again, I firsthand have seen the impact that they do. It's unbelievable. And so for a little amount of money, you're able to change, truly change a kid's life. And so I want to encourage you, go to mission-haiti.org and sponsor a child today. You won't regret it. We sponsor three kids through Mission Haiti. It's the best investment ever. Our second partner is Verne Haiti Mitsubishi. Verne Haiti is a growing faith-based employee-owned company that strives to deliver dreams and transform lives in all that they do. And I just want to say, if you are looking for a vehicle of any kind, whether it's a car, a tractor, a boat this summer, go to Verne Haiti.

Whether it's an Acura, a Mitsubishi Outlander, a Ford, a GMC Honda, you name the make of vehicle, they're going to have it. And no matter where you live, they'll ship it to you. Go visit vernehaiti.com. You won't regret it. vernehaiti.com. Yeah. When it comes to asking great questions, a lot of people would ask questions, but as far as great questions, we need a few of the things we've already touched on. We need curiosity, we need humility, we need courage, and we need wisdom. And all four of those are incredibly important. And so there are times where I will say, Lord, would you grant me a deeply curious heart? We could call that curiosity. We call it wonder. Lord, grant me wisdom, James 1.5. If you lack wisdom, we should ask God who gives it generously and without finding fault. Humility, of course, the root of all that we have in the Christian life, and then courage. You could call that boldness, faith, courage, whatever it is, but Lord, you know, the sign behind you, we must be bold, right? And so we have to have the courage to ask questions because if, when we ask a question we're admitting we don't know, which takes humility and courage, because I don't know. I could pretend, but there's that. So when we're younger, we ask a ton of questions. When we're older, we don't. And there are several barriers. I talk in the book about eight obstacles that exist. You know, we live in an attention-seeking age, right? Enough about me. What do you think about me, right? This sort of conversational narcissism.

But there's also this idea of I think I already know, or I don't want to look stupid, or questions haven't been modeled well, or we assume awkward interactions or nervous about what we might learn if we ask a good question. So there are lots of obstacles. But I think when Jesus says that we're to become like little children before we enter the kingdom of heaven, we've always thought about it with, at least I have, with innocence and depending upon others for our needs, and kids are bad at faking it, right? These are all good things that I think are aromas of the kingdom. But I don't think I ever made the connection until researching this. Questions are asked all the time by kids. They are the question experts. And the older we get, the more we give answers and the less questions we ask. Maybe part of being in that childlike faith is actually learning to return to ask more questions rather than just give more answers. And so that's, you know, childlike faith. Let's be like children. What do children... What are they experts in? They're the professional question askers of our day. I love that. I think there's almost like, I feel like the older I get and I see this, I used to wonder how you become an old bitter man. Like I was just like, I don't understand how you could become old and bitter and whatever. And now I always, I ask myself the other question, how can you get old with a soft heart and whatever? Yes. Yes. And cause that, that now seems impossible for me. And I feel like questions are one of those things that just keeps your heart soft. It just like, it's a good like till to the soul instead of on the dirt to get hard.

It just kind of keeps like, okay, okay. And I think there's something so beautiful about that. So okay. So I want to get really practical now. So as a friend or as a coworker, I feel like, you know, in many ways, even since 2020 and just whatever, we've, we've gotten like worse at friendships and, and even just worse at communication one-on-one questions that a person can ask to be a good friend or coworker. Like, I, I feel like relationship, like there's so many lonely people, um, questions that, that are helpful to ask, or I, gosh, I just feel stupid and I don't know what to say. Like any, any like basic, like here, here's a, just kind of a good help or reminder for you. Yeah. Oftentimes people ask me, Hey, can you give me like the top 10, you know, five or 10 best questions that I could ask a friend? I will say this. I don't often give a list of questions, but I do love principles and the big one. And the reason being for that is context, right? So when I'm with some of my older friends, I'm going to ask different questions than I'm with some of my younger friends. Or if I'm with someone I've known maybe for six months or less, I'm going to ask a certain type of question. But if I'm with somebody I've known since elementary school, I'm going to ask a different type of question. So I think the first thing is just understanding the context that we're in. Number two, I think one of the best questions we could ask, if I could boil it down to anything is, so tell me what's your story. In fact, I recently heard Gordon McDonald say, and it sounds silly on the surface, but tell me your life story in four minutes or less. And a lot of times people chuckle and go four minutes. Well, then all of a sudden you begin to learn what do they care about and what were the major markers in their lives.

You can really find that something out about someone very quickly. But Maya Angelou, she said, there's no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you. And so that's why I think that idea of tell me your story and the people that I thought that I've known for a long time. Oh, I know them. I just sometimes will say, tell me your story and I'll go, what? I did not know that about you. I did not know you went through that pain. Yeah. I did not know you grew up there. I did not know that shaped you in that way. You lived overseas. You're kidding me. I had no idea. And so I think that's a fantastic one. But I do think that when you ask people to tell their story and you genuinely care, one of the best things we can do is listen well and then ask follow up questions. Because oftentimes the follow up questions are just as important, if not more important than the original question we ask. Really? Tell me more. What do you mean by that? What was that experience like? How did that shape you? Those follow up questions are wildly affirming and compassionate to other people because it shows you're listening, but it allows them to double click and go deeper on some elements. And again, we could talk more about principles to approach on that, but I think that's a big one. Tell me your story. And then the follow up questions on that I think can be can be wildly helpful. Certainly there's a place for me to interject and to be able to share. But the best thing we can do is have our focus on other people.

In the book I talk about there was a sociologist named Charles Derber up in the Boston area. And one of the things he did is he talked about a conversational project. And he he had people from all over Boston, old and young, educated, not educated, male, female. And he basically they recorded conversations and then they assessed them, he and his team. And the researchers found that there were two types of conversations. There was what he called shift response and there was support response. Shift response is where, you know, Adam, if I asked you, so, you know, what'd you do this past weekend? And you said, oh, my family and I, we went and saw this movie. A shift response is where I would respond, oh, my family, we don't really like movies. We like hiking. What did I do right then? I just took the focus off of you and I shifted it on to me. Or to some other topic. A support response is where I keep the support directly on you. So I might say, Adam, what did you do this weekend? Oh, my family and I, we went to go see a movie. Shift response would be where I respond, oh, what movie was it? Oh, do you all go as a family to movies regularly? Yeah. What else do you all like to do in addition to movies? So the focus is on you. Adam, here's one of the things you'll notice. In our culture, it is saturated with shift response conversations where people shift away from the person that they're talking to onto themselves. My dad calls this stealing the ball from a teammate who's dribbling. And, you know, we don't need to do that. But instead, a support response says, Adam, you're important. I want to learn about you and your family. Tell me more. And those are the inspiring people. Those are the people that we feel amplify who we are.

Those are the people that care about us. Those are the people that we want to spend more time with at a party, not less. Because we've all been in conversations with shift response people where you're like, man, all they do is talk about themselves and how quickly can I get out of this conversation? And this is very uninspiring. So that's another piece. It's kind of like. like the FedEx arrow. Like once you notice the arrow, you can't unsee it. Same thing with conversation. Once you notice the shift response and the support response, it's everywhere. And if you can begin to notice it, it'll change the way you hear conversations. And so if we wanna be good question askers and good listeners, one of the best things we can do is to be shift response, sorry, support response people and not shift response. It's a way we can show hospitality, care, genuine love and attention that we can put on the other people. I love that. And again, just such a good pro tip and not just with friends, but I even, for whatever reason, my wife just flashed in my mind of how often I shift response with her. And it's like, I was telling you about our children and now you're talking about the Cincinnati Bengals. I don't know how this shift just took place. And I'm like, but Joseph Burrow is so good looking.

So, no, I just think that's so critically important. Maybe another, again, another question. So you're with some friends and they're newer friends. So you ask about their story and you ask them a follow-up and then the conversation just kind of feels dead. And you're just like, specifically if you're more introverted, any other hacks there? Because I feel that in conversations often where it's just like, now I don't know what else to ask. Yes, yep. A couple of things. First of all, silence isn't all bad and sometimes it's okay to just let it linger. And I think we're always gonna feel slight awkwardness in every relationship. I'm sweaty right now, but continue on. Our family. Continue on. I'm nervous and twitching right now, but we're okay. Keep going. But a lot of introverts say to me, you know, I can think of a really great question to ask about 15 minutes after my conversation is over. And I go, dang it. Why couldn't I remember this earlier in the conversation? And so one of the things I encourage people to do is, and I've done this too, is to develop a go-to list of high quality questions and what I call back pocket questions. So this could be literally in your back pocket.

You could put it in a small notebook or an index card or the notes section of your phone. I don't encourage people to whip it out, you know, with their phone. It can feel a little bit rigid if we did it that way. But oftentimes I've tried to memorize five to 10 go-to questions that I can ask in just about any environment. And I love being able to ask those questions. So when there's a bit of a lull, I kind of go back through the files a little bit in my mind and go, let me just pick one of the questions out that I like to ask people and say, hey, I've been thinking about this, dot, dot, dot. Or, hey, have you ever considered this? Or this is a question I like to ask others. I'd be curious about your thoughts on this too. And so that's often what I have. And so those five to 10 back pocket questions have been incredibly helpful. And introverts could say, I always think of a great one later to say, if you can prepare ahead of time and then pull that out, it can be wildly helpful. Even if you have a hard time memorizing things, there's something called question roulette, which is kind of fun. Question roulette is where you might have 27 questions that you think are good that you can think of at a time, you know, whatever, 13, whatever number you have. But let's say you've got 27 in a list on your phone.

And sometimes when I'm with friends or we're waiting for something to start or, you know, whatever, the waitress has taken our order, but we don't have our food yet. I might say, okay, somebody pick a number between one and 27 and I go, 14, great. And then I scroll down that list and go, question number 14 is this. What if we all answered question number 14? And then we do that. Somebody else pick a number one to 27, but not 14. Number 11, great. Number 11 is this. And it always leads to a fun conversation, even though we don't know what question is coming, but I've had some thoughtful time to prepare a list of good questions. And people say, oh, what's another one? This is fun. Do another one. Let's do another one. So it becomes a bit of a game that we all engage in that's structured, but it's also improvised at the same time. It's kind of like jazz music. There's a bass beat, but we're going to riff and improvise here and make some good music together. I just love that. And that seems like, well, would it actually, would it feel lame or weird?

And we've had that. So I need to shout out Rachel Gage and Brittany Lindbergh who are two amazing friends. We'll often go out as couples and there's one kind of big question that we ask ourselves around the table and it turns into our favorite part of the time. And again, it sounds weird, but it turns into like our favorite thing. and we end up talking about it like months later. Like, remember that question? And it's always tries, we always try to make it kind of a big, honest, heavy, deep question. Sometimes it can be fun, but a lot of times it's just kind of this really honest question and it turns into this beautiful time. I just love that so much. Okay, really shifting. So if I'm, so I'm huge on mentors and just people that I can learn from. I'm actually grabbing lunch today with a business guy. We've connected one other time and he is, he reached out and said, I think we should connect again. So I was thrilled. So I can't wait for lunch today. But questions that are wise to ask mentors or how to gain wisdom. If you're with somebody, whether it's a leader at your workplace that you're like, I wanna learn from them or an older mentor

that you're meeting with for coffee, any specific questions you'd advise for gaining wisdom or whatever comes to mind? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's the first one. I think some people think that wisdom is just attained by osmosis or you get older and collect more birthdays and you just all of a sudden get wise and we know that's not true. And so one of the things I love to ask older, wiser people is I know you didn't just wake up one day and say, wow, I'm wise. So I like to say, what did you do to cultivate wisdom? What are the practices, the spiritual rhythms, the habits that you engage in that led you to be a person of great wisdom? I'm gonna take a note of this, by the way, for my lunch appointment today. So keep going. This is very practical, helpful advice for this Yahoo. Yeah, so that's the first one is like, what have you done to proactively, intentionally cultivate wisdom in your life? And of course, wisdom is learned experience. So I'll say, what do you know now you wish you knew when you were younger? Now, it doesn't mean that every mentor we have is 80 or 90 years old. It could be a 45-year-old mentor and that's fine. But to say, what do you, let's say I'm a 25-year-old,

what do you know at 45 you wish you knew you were at 25? Or what do you know now as a pastor you wish you knew in your first six months? Or as a business leader, what are some hard fought lessons, even lessons of failure that you've had as a business leader? And so I always love that. What do you know now you wish you knew? I also love to ask, what are you learning now? How do you stay sharp? What are you listening to? What are you reading? What are the ways you're trying to fill the well of not just intellectual stimulation, but also spiritual inspiration? What does that look like in your life? And then also, what do you do with failure and discouragement? I love asking leaders that question, because no doubt all of us have experienced that, but what was it that helped them get up off the mat again and keep going and not give up? So those are a few of my favorites that I love asking mentors. If that mentor knows me and has known me for a while, and there's trust there, I will say, feedback is the breakfast of champions. Feedback is how we grow. And I'm asking for a mirror up moment right now. I'll say, what are some things you see in my life

that encourage you and you want me to continue to move in that direction, part A? And part B, what are some things you see in my life that concern you? And if you were given full permission, which you are right now, what would you wanna say to me out of love, but maybe correction and challenge? Because they may see some things I don't see in my blind spots, and I want them to know they have full permission to give me the last 5% of the truth. What is it I need to hear, even if it's hard to hear, but will help me grow? And so those are some that I find to be wildly helpful for my own growth and development. Man, that was good right there. I'm now fully prepared for my lunch appointment. Literally, I'll be asking Craig those four questions. I thought that was so good. And that last part, gosh, to ask for that mirror moment is powerful. And I asked one of my mentors recently that question, and he's one of the most direct human beings on the face of the earth. And when I was bringing him to the airport, I asked him that, and he started giving me honest feedback. And I literally had to take deep breaths. Like I was like, okay, this is really honest. Okay, this mirror is very clear.

Gosh, I can see so well. And so that was a moment, but what a helpful blessing to ask. J.R., a question, you work with so many leaders, and for all the leaders listening, questions they should be asking themselves. Mm-hmm. Great question. Yeah, questions they should ask themselves. The number one question that I like to ask myself—I think it's important and I encourage others to do the same—is, what is my motive? And especially for us as Christian leaders, we have to be very careful because we can take mixed motives or bad motives and baptize them in Christian language to make them sound like good motives. And they're not always good motives. And so to really say, like, you know, Lord, search my heart, what is my motive in this situation to lead this way, say this, write this, do this, not do this? And so that's, I think, a big one. What is my motive? Number two, is this motivated by love? Right? First Corinthians 13. I don't want to be a clanging gong. And so God, what is—is this rooted in love in that? And I always like to ask this—it's an acronym—but am I being FAT and HUNGRY? And of course, FAT is an acronym for faithful, available, teachable, and hungry. I don't know how we can honor the Lord as leaders if we are not faithful, available, teachable, and hungry. And if those four are present, I think God just has a penchant to use people, regardless of their age, experience, gender, education, to be able to do really fruitful things for

the kingdom if we are FAT and hungry. And then the other one is, who can I bless today? I've got a couple of tattoos, one on each arm, but one right here are three arrows pointing outward. I'm personally... And the reason being is... I was gonna say, I'm personally a Christian, so I don't have any tattoos, but continue on. I see your arms. Sorry. Sorry. Continue on. They're like, oh, crap, I forgot we were on video. We can see each other. But the arrows pointing out, and that's something our family, we live by this mantra, APO, where even when our kids were little, we'd say, live APO today. Live with your arrows pointing out. We live in a world where all the arrows are pointing inward. Look at me. Aren't I amazing? Look at me. But if we turn the arrows around and say, instead of, here I am when I walk into a room, I say, there you are when they walk in a room. And so if I can live... So the question is, how can I live APO today? How can I live with my arrows pointing out that says, do I see people? How can I see people? How can I notice people? How can I bless people? How can I affirm people?

And then ultimately, how can I add value to the person or the persons that are in front of me right now? Because I really believe that leaders add value. And that could be praying for someone, asking a good question, speaking, teaching, or preaching in a way that's excellent and meaningful where we've come prepared. Whatever it might be, whatever field we're in, how can I add value to the person in front of me? Because they have value. And how can I add value to them? So that's what I always think that leaders should be asking. And then finally, how can I stay sharp? How can I allow... What can I cultivate in my life that allows me to stay spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically sharp so that I can steward best, whether it's one, two, or five talents, to steward whatever God has entrusted to me? Help me be a good steward, because God, I know you won't say at the end of my days, well done, good and successful servant. You'll say well done, good and faithful servant, which means stewardship has to be a top priority for everyone, especially for leaders, and especially for kingdom leaders. So good. Maybe one last question. If the first part of what you said with motive, if the motive of your heart isn't good, then what? Yeah, great question. If you ask the question, you discover, gosh, this is kind of about me, and this is kind of about my kingdom, not his. Advice or wisdom? I pause, because I think if I act with a poor motive, I not only hurt myself, but in a position of leadership, I have the ability to inflict a lot of pain on other people. And so when I sense my motive is not where it should be, I pause.

And that pause could lead to confession, or prayer, or calling a friend, saying, hey, I want to do the right thing, but in the wrong way, and a saying that I have with the leaders that I coach is, doing the right thing the wrong way can easily become the wrong thing. And so it's, I want to do the right thing, but I sense I'm wanting to do it for the wrong motive. So pause, confession, talk to a friend, and then sometimes journal that out, talk it out to say, okay, Lord, do some, I need to do some inside the house work right now. You know, I need to reorient my affections, my priorities here before I act, uh, act appropriately. So naming things as a way of taming things, naming things as a way of changing things. And so if I can just name that even to the person in front of me to say, Hey, honestly, right now, I, you know, a friend over coffee, I did this a couple of weeks ago. Um, your questions are great. In fact, I have to be careful right now because I'm feeling the need to, to look impressive, to look like I have all the answers so that you're inspired and impressed and think that I'm brilliant. And I just had to name that to him over coffee and was I embarrassed? You bet. But I felt like the best thing I can do is to name that, which helps Lance the boil off of my soul of that desire to want to be seen as impressive and brilliant. And I hope he goes home and mentions me on his Instagram and, you know, all this stuff and go, no, I just need to name this right now. Um, and to just name my brokenness and where I need help, where I need grace. Oh, that's so good. Uh, to everybody listening, we, we, uh, you know, I often have guests and we talk about their books. JR's book is, uh, one of the, the books that I got in devoured. And so really, really want to highly recommend the art of asking better questions. Go get yourself a copy. JR man. Uh, I sensed why I think I wanted to have you on the podcast is just, I sensed humility and just wisdom and also just joy in you. And just even hearing about your dad, uh, at the start just brings me, brings me so much joy. So, so grateful to have you on the podcast today. Thanks again for tuning in today and listening. We're so grateful that you're here. And just hope you were able to have some sort of, some sort of takeaway from Adam and JR's conversation. What was your takeaway? Uh, there was, well, the last question on what is your motive, uh, as a leader at the end, I, that just really resonated with me. And I think it's so important to ask on a regular basis. And then just those response, the shift response versus

the support response. I'm like, how often am I shifting it to me? And it's an annoying thing when you're talking with somebody and they constantly bring it back to them. I started like, as I've gotten older, noticing that about people more too. Like when people really do that, I'm always like, well, I'm like more reflective. It's like, how often am I doing it? Yeah. Right. You know? And so I think that really puts into words of like, gosh, what are you doing? And that's, that's one of the simplest ways you can love a person is just by asking them a follow-up question about their lives. So that was definitely the takeaway for me. This is an episode I'm going to share with my, with my wife for sure. Cause I think it's something that she'll really enjoy and resonate. Cause a lot of times it's like, I don't know what to say. I'm talking with somebody, but I, I'm riding in the car with them or out for a double date. And I don't know what to, what to say to them. So I think this is just a really helpful, practical conversation. Yeah. Thanks to our partners as always mission, Haiti, what an incredible organization, along with Vernity Mitsubishi that I can't thank enough guys. It's always a pleasure having you listen in, have a great rest of your day and be blessed. Thanks guys.