Seated Together | Thayers & Sharps | Oakley & Kandy Ray | Seat At The Table

to you. Well, good morning, everyone. Good morning. Thank you, Karina, for the warm welcome. And first, we want to say thank you to Pastor Tyrone in Virginia for trusting in us to give us the stage today to talk about something that is very near and dear to our heart, and that's marriage. Kenny and I have been married for over 38 years. We have. Thank you. We have five grand or five children. I want five grandchildren. And we have four grandchildren. And we have just been blessed. Candy is on staff. Like Karina said, she is the care ministry director here. I am the care pastor also. And again, just reemphasizing what Karina said, whether you're 39 days into your marriage or 30 years strong, and we pray or you're still looking for the one, we pray that the Holy Spirit and God will meet you where you're at today. At this time, I'm going to turn it over to Mike and Connie to introduce themselves and how long they've been here and how long they've been married. Thank you, sir. Mike and Connie Sharp. We've been married 30 years. We've been at CTC for 25 ish. Yeah, like that. We have three awesome kids. We have two awesome daughter-in-laws and one awesome son-in-law and two grandkids. So that are both under the age of eight months. So pretty awesome. Brandon and Jessica there. We have been married going on nine years now. And we've got a six year old daughter and a five year old son, Leila and Carson. We've been coming to CTC for just about two and a half years now. Amen. Well, I just want to say again, thank you for being so willing to come today and share your stories. I know this is a moment of vulnerability, but God will be glorified in it. And so we're just thankful. One of the things I want to want to share

in having this conversation is that marriage can often feel very isolating. There are seasons that just make you feel like you're alone and you're the only one going through it. And it's easy to look around and assume that everyone else has it together. And while you're the one out there struggling and going through things and having all these questions and not sharing why not sure why your life is the way it is. But the reality is that every marriage has a story. And we're going to hear your story today. And we're going to see how God uses other people in our stories, how he uses biblical community and intentional relationships to help us grow in ways we never could do on our own. And so as you guys will hear today, these couples have very different stories. Yet in both stories, God use people, community and biblical guidance to bring them to healing, some growth and restoration. So I want to I want to kick this off and start with Mike and Connie. I just love Mike and Connie story. As they said, they've been married for more than 30 years and are the parents of three adult children who are married and serving the Lord in their own families. And so that's beautiful. You guys have been a part of church for the city for many years, which is wonderful. But your story is not one marked by dramatic crisis. Most people think that, you know, you got to go seek help, things like that, because your marriage is in some kind of crisis. But some things that many couples struggle with and can relate to is kind of that slow drift in your routine, right? You don't even really know that it's happening, but it's happening. And so although you guys loved each other, you raised your family, you attended church, you built successful careers. Over time, you found yourself kind of disconnected and struggling to prioritize

your relationship with God and one another. And so you guys hit that empty nester stage. You hit that empty nester stage and God began to kind of reveal what you guys needed most was not better schedules, more activities in your life, all the camping, all the things, right? Mike's like, yes, we need more camping. But really just a deeper relationship with God himself. And so I want to go back to the beginning for you guys. And when you first got married, what did what did you think marriage was going to look like? Man, I thought marriage would be the white picket fence, you know, the all American family dream kind of thing. where you had the white picket fence, the house, the cars, the two kids, the dog, probably not a cat, but dogs. And I was just not mad at that. Right, and it was my job to provide. It was my job to go to work and to come home and to be a good dude in and outside of the home to keep the yard nice and tidy, to keep the cars nice and tidy. That was my role and that's what I did. How about you, Connie? I don't know that I came into it with an expectation of anything. However, I knew what I didn't want. When we got married, I was not a believer. I knew I was marrying a pastor's son, never really seeked out for that, but I knew that because of coming up in a single-parent household and a father that was gone at the age of 12,

because of death on the job and seeing a mom struggle by herself, there was some dysfunction there and I just knew what I didn't want. So I thought, well, if I marry an awesome man who I could see was an incredible father already because he had a young son at the time, I thought this is the man for me because I didn't have what I already saw in him, but none of it was built on God or faith or the Lord. But I think deep down inside, I knew maybe at some point we could get there because I knew of Mike's upbringing and his background. But otherwise, I really didn't have a huge expectation of anything that I wanted. So Mike and Connie, I got a question for you. Were there any warning signs early on that you missed? How much time we got? Take the time you need. Looking back, I mean, there were warning signs all along, all along, but until you sit down and actually realize what's going on, until you can really understand the impact, you're really not aware. And then I would turn, she'd be upset and she would store it down for a little while and then all of a sudden, we'd have this big old blow up and I'm like, okay, here we go again. Yep, full moon, there we go. But I voiced that one time, so don't do that.

But yeah, just once. That's a no. Yeah, but, and I thought, after we'd have this discussion, then everything would be good and we were fine and we were moving on. We just kept chugging. I did not take the time to realize where all that was coming from. And I didn't, I wasn't walking with the Lord close enough to be able to listen and to hear what was going on, either. That's good, that's good. How about you, Connie? There comes a point where you stay so busy, busy raising kids, busy in your career and in your jobs. God definitely isn't first. My husband definitely wasn't second. My kids were first, our kids. And it took the last one to leave home and go away to school before I realized that was my identity, was being Cameron and Kylie's mom. And I spent so much energy and time making sure they were okay, but not their dad, not their mama's marriage, that there were definitely signs along the way of that numbness and that emptiness. But then when things slow down, and you are an empty nester, I was lost. My identity was gone, and that's when I knew

I didn't just want to medicate. That's all the doctors wanted to do. I thought I was going through depression. I thought I was going through stages of life. Oh no, there was a healer that wanted to heal me. Come on, come on, yeah. They wanted to heal me. Come on, come on, yes. I love that, I love that. So you can see for many couples, right? The busiest seasons of life sometimes can hide what the big issues are. And they start to kind of grow in that silent place, right? Beneath the surface where. They don't even know it's happening. You don't even know it's happening until it just rears its head. And so, I still have another follow-up question for you guys. At what point did you realize something was missing? I wanna hear how you guys came to that realization. There was a time having my alone time at the kitchen counter by myself. And I cried out to God and I said, you say life abundantly. This is what this is about. I know you have so much more for me. I'm not living an abundant life, Lord. Jane Bell in our church came to mind right away. And I called her and I said, Jane, I need help.

And she said, there's a wonderful lady in our church named Mindy that is a Christian counselor. I think you need to call her. And I called Mindy, introduced myself. I didn't know who Mindy was, didn't know her background, but I trusted Jane's wisdom and just a godly woman. So, ladies, surround yourself with godly women. Don't call your best friend that might not be godly. Her first question that Mindy asked me, when I told her how I was feeling, she said, Connie, let me stop you. She said, do you and your husband want this marriage? And I said, oh, absolutely. She said, okay. And they were doing a study at the time. It was a marriage enrichment study. And because it's so personal, you can't just enter those at any time. And they keep them in very small, intimate groups. She said, I can't allow you to come in now. There's no room. But I can tell you the study we're in the middle of. And that's when I mentioned to Mike, I think we need to order these books. Yeah, how about you, Mike? Like I mentioned earlier, there was a point where ever so often, we'd have these discussions and everything would get better. But this, this time it was different because it was deep.

I could feel their pain. And I was better in my walk at the time, so I was better to understand and to hear. But man, yeah, it was different. And it was like, gosh, you're supposed to be a spiritual leader. You're supposed to be strong. You're supposed to be helping her out. How do you do that? So then she comes with this study, and I'm like, cool, thank you, Lord, this is good. And so then we ended up buying an RV, thank you, Lord. And then we go camping, right? And so during these camping trips that we'd go to, we'd break these books open. We've been married for 30 years, like we said. We had never talked like we talked on those camping trips, ever, based on a curriculum. The questions that was coming up. And we knew, I knew then that there was just, there's just so much more for us. And that eventual slide that we took, you know, Satan works, man. He's not gonna punch you in the throat all the time. Sometimes he will, but he's not gonna punch you in the throat all the time. Sometimes he's just like, ah, you don't need to do that. Ah, you don't need to do that. You know, but goodness gracious, let me tell you, that those camping trips and those conversations

really saved our marriage. Yeah, so what surprised you? I mean, you both had been, at this point, walking in your Christian walk for a while. What surprised you about this revelation? How lost I was. You know, I thought, you know, being a preacher's kid, a lot of that stuff's true about preacher's kids, but being a preacher's kid, I was raised in a church. We went to church, we prayed, we did these things, and I knew it was the right thing to do, but it was just dad's job. It wasn't an intimate relationship with Jesus, and it really didn't get super deep until just a few years ago, you know, where now I know I need to work on me before I can work on anything else. And here I am thinking, like, I gotta be, I gotta work on her, and I gotta do this. No, no, no, you gotta work on yourself, get yourself right, and then once you're right, everything starts to become clear, and man, it doesn't happen overnight, and there's patience and perseverance that takes place, but goodness, I tell you, the struggle along the way is worth it. The time on your knees, the time at the kitchen table for me and the walks with the Lord and the talks with Connie, oh my gosh, yeah.

Yeah, just working on yourself first, making sure you're right in your heart, making sure you're right in your mind, will definitely open up doors for the conversation. Amen. Well, that's so good. Before we transition over to Brandon and Jessica, I just wanna reemphasize something that Mike and Connie talked about. Life was going good as long as they had their kids at home. Then they hit the empty nesting stage. And this is just a saying that Connie and I, we tell parents that are going through things like this and they're focusing on their children. You have 18 summers with those and then they're gone. They moved out and then you're left with a stranger if you don't put your spouse first. That's something that everyone needs to remember. Yeah. So Mike and Connie's story reminds us that not every couple seeks help because of a crisis. Sometimes they simply recognize there's more that God wants for their marriage. Brandon and Jessica, your story comes from a very different place. Brandon and Jessica began attending Church for the City during one of the most difficult seasons of their lives. From the outside, it looked like you had built a successful life together. Both had careers, a nice home, a growing family.

But beneath the surface, their marriage was unraveling. Brandon, you drifted away from the Lord for a time and your relationship became strained. And eventually your marriage reached the brink of divorce. In fact, when you first came to Church for the City, divorce was already on the table. So when you first got married and started building a life together, what did that season look like? Let's see. When we first got married, life was good. Life was pretty simple. We had experienced a lot of trials and tribulations and we had come through them. And we were in a good spot. We wouldn't have gotten married otherwise. And when we got married, my walk with God was in a good spot and Jessica's was in a good spot. But we were doing it independently and we had never brought that together. Jessica. When we first got married, it was kind of easy. We were dinking. We were dual income, no kids. It was great. But as life just got more and more challenging and more and more interesting and just the everyday pressure of life kind of set in, we didn't turn to God to be the center

or the focus in our marriage. So these things that start out by just small conflict have a way of just multiplying over time. Now, I know when you two got married, you were in school, is that right? So tell us a little bit about what that was like because here you guys are. I think, Brandy, you were already in your profession. Jessica was in school. And so, yeah, you're married with no kids, but tell us about that pressure of being newlyweds in this situation, this season. I mean, we had like everyday pressures that were there and school was like really rough. Like, don't get me wrong. That was challenging. But for, I can just speak for myself, I've always functioned from a place of kind of like hyper independence. And when you're married, you are really taking on the challenges of life with somebody. Right, that's good. And that just brought about its own challenges, especially when you have kids and you're on this like crazy journey of parenting together. and getting a mortgage together, and just as life got more and more and more serious, the demands get more and more serious, and for us, because we weren't putting Christ

like in the center of all of that, we didn't have great answers for conflict-like resolution when it came about. Oh, that's good, good, okay. So sometimes the most difficult seasons don't happen overnight. When did you realize you couldn't keep doing things the way you had been doing them? I don't know that there was a single point in time when it was like, wow, we can't continue to do this. It was, I had known that for a while, but I just tried to hide from it. You know, we, I heard something earlier, like things would come to a head, and we would be having conflict, and it didn't matter what it was. It could have been small, it could have been large, and we would sit down and we would talk about it, but we would talk about it logically, right? And we would try to talk about it from like, oh, well, this is how it made me feel. This is, I mean, I would talk about it that way. Like I would talk about it about how I'm not being understood, and I'm not getting what I want, and this, that, and the other thing. And the problem is like, for me, I was rooted in self, you know, and that was a progression. You know, like I said, when we got married, I was healthy in my walk with God, and I wasn't rooted in self, and that just changed.

You know, Mike mentioned something that really I could relate to, like Satan doesn't always punch you in the throat, you know? I had never heard that before, but it resonates with me because it's subtle, you know? It's thoughts, it's, yeah, you don't need to do this. It's all the little things that, well, you're not getting what you deserve kind of thing, you know, and it's just delusion. Yeah, yeah. Anything you wanna add, Jessica? I'm, I very, very specifically remember, like June of 2023, I was like, I cannot, like this is not it. This is not what life is supposed to be like. This is not what marriage is supposed to be like. And everything specifically came to a head, specifically in December of 23, when I actually did file for divorce, and I was just like, this is definitively where I'm at. Yeah, yeah. Well, did either of you think, you know, when you, here it was December, the divorce papers are final, are filed. Did either of you see reconciliation even possible? In terms of the marriage, no. I otherwise wouldn't have filed for divorce. That's good. But I knew that Brandon and I had to be great friends. Like, even though our marriage was literally falling apart,

we have these two beautiful children that God has entrusted us to raise. And I knew that we just had to be really great, great co-parents at the end of the day. That's kind of, honestly, like, that's just where I thought that that was headed. And when you're in something that's just so terrible, like filing for divorce, especially as a parent, you're just like, oh gosh, how can I get through this and do the least damage to these kids? And at the time that I had filed, I did not think that reconciliation was possible, but I knew that we still had to be like this united front as co-parents. So then what finally convinced you guys to let other people into your marriage and into your journey? And what did that process look like? Because you wouldn't be here today if something didn't happen, so share that. So I know this sounds ridiculous to say it out loud, but we came to CTC in December, so I had already filed for divorce. And Brandon was just like, just come to church with what we're gonna do. and go to church together as a family. And for me, it was, again, it was like very important that my kids could see like, hey, mom and dad can go to church together. We're getting along together.

You know, everything's good. We came here and there was a small life group that you could sign up for. And again, I know this sounds odd, but I was just like, okay, I'm gonna sign us up for marriage enrichment courses. Come on, come on. Not because I was trying to save my marriage. It really wasn't my focus. I was actually thinking that I was gonna gain some life skills that could help me co-parent as best as I possibly could. Yeah, wow. That was kind of God's honest truth. Yeah. We didn't tell you guys that we had filed for a divorce. I'm sorry. And what's interesting, Mike and Connie were their marriage enrichment leaders. Yeah, they were. God was doing a lot of things at one time. As he was working on them, he was working on them. They made a decision, they made a decision. It was all beautiful. But we're gonna get to more of that here in just a minute. And so, Brandon, what did that process look like for you? So she signed up for marriage enrichment. What were you thinking? What was going on in your mind? It was very different than what she was thinking.

Yeah. So she actually took the initiative and went and signed us up for the marriage enrichment. So, you know, back up a little bit. I had already turned towards God again. And I was starting to, he was starting to soften my heart again because my heart had become callous. And when I, I was invited to CTC by a friend. And the first time that I came to CTC, I came alone. And for obvious reasons. And then, so when I invited Jessica to come to church and we, you know, I presented it as a, let's go to church as a family. I knew that, you know, her sentiment was to provide, you know, present a united front to our kids, but to me, I was at the point where I wanted to reconcile the marriage. I had spent a long time trying to convince myself that that wasn't what I wanted, but I always knew in my heart, that's what I did want. I just didn't have the tools. So when she went and signed us up, I'm in my mind, I'm like, oh wow, this is great. Like she's turning a corner too. Like, not a little, and I didn't even know. So this is kind of a funny, I mean, hindsight, but it's kind of funny now. I didn't even know until literally a week ago

that when she signed us up, that she just wanted to learn how to co-parent better. That was news to me. So I want to just kind of flush out a little bit about what happened. What was it that, and we know the story, but Brandon, share with us what happened while you guys were in marriage enrichment in Mike and Connie's group. What happened that kind of sparked you to have a desire to go past just this co-parenting thing? What happened? You two. To be quite frank, we were learning a lot in the marriage enrichment course, and I learned what it meant. I learned what a covenant was. I didn't know that. I had heard it. I had been raised going to church, but I'd never heard it, you know what I mean? God's plan happens in divine order. Attending the marriage enrichment, Jessica and I, it put us in a place to be receptive. It put me in a place to be receptive, you know? And honestly, Candy and Oakley came one night and they shared their testimony, and it struck me to my core. I was like, they were telling our story. They were telling Jessica and I's story,

and I immediately, if I look back, that's really where the little hope that I had was amplified, and I knew that somebody else had gone through what we had gone through, and I knew that they had a solution, and I was very intrigued. by that and I went up to Oakley afterwards and I started asking all these questions and I think that he thought I wanted to be a pastor or some sort of like, I wanted to do what he was doing, right, and I needed help, I was so desperate at that point but no, that's really what I think was the biggest turning point for me. So good, well, just listening to both of your stories, you know, it's clear that community played a big part in it and community matters but ultimately, it wasn't just about having people around you, right? God used those people to point you back to him and begin changing your marriage from the inside. So, you know, going back here to Mike and Connie, you know, what would you say to the person who knows they need help but's afraid to take that first step? Pray. Yes, yes. May go before the Lord and talk to him. Talk to him like he's your best friend because he is your best friend, you know, and be real with him. I can take you to the spot on the canal

where we walk on where there were some breakdowns happening because of what we were going through but it was my discussions with God on that canal. So pray and pray for his will to be done. His will to be done. You know, you can ask, you can do but pray for his will and really sincerely seek that, you know, and then also what you can do too is to sincerely pray for your spouse. Don't pray for them to change, right? Well, you can but, you know, pray for yourself but then also pray for them and their walk and how they receive God's word and how they're interacting with God's word and the community that they're surrounding themselves with. You know, just start off with prayer. Yeah, how about you, Connie? I would say we need to realize that we're very prideful people and we need to really get rid of that, surrender your marriage but I'm gonna tell you also, go to war for your marriage in prayer. Yes, amen, amen. Because at the end of the day, you've got to go home and ask yourself, did Satan win today or did God win today? Where was my mind? Where was my heart? What were the doubts that I had today? Then I would say, other than give it to God

and keep yourself surrounded in godly people in your church and fellowship and us women have other women that we can call like I did, go to war in prayer. And you know what, honestly, because we're in the empty nesters now and grandbabies are coming but they all live out of state, someday, the Lord knows the desires of our hearts and they'll all be back in Yuma someday, maybe. Pray with her, will ya? But we owe it to our children that we're bringing to church every day because Mike and I did that for 18 to 20 years. We owe it to our kids to make their daddy or their mommy first under God. So God first, spouse second. And I didn't do that. And any new mom, any young couple that we meet now that goes through our enrichment group at our home, that is loud and clear that Satan is upset that you're here trying to improve your marriage, number one, there will be spiritual warfare because you're involved in this small group because it happened to every one of us in our group on the three different groups that we had, every one of us around the same time went through that. And we could look at each other and say, the devil is real and there is a spiritual warfare going on. And so praying in our home,

praying over each other and their marriage specifically. But if you have kids at home, you owe it to your kids to teach them because you know what? Someday your daughter's gonna be married and someday your son's gonna be married and who better to teach them about godly marriages than us as parents. Amen, amen, that's so good, Connie. So Brandon and Jessica, what did God use to begin rebuilding trust and hope in your marriage? I have really deep philosophical conversations with God. A lot. If you know Jessica, she has deep philosophical conversations with everyone. Yes. For me, personally, so my dad is a chaplain, and we, growing up my whole life, we would have these very intricate conversations together as one does when your dad's a chaplain. And I would say, Dad, what did Jesus really, well, what did he really get angry about? And my dad would say, well, he really didn't like hypocrisy. He would say, he would get upset at the Pharisees because they were posturing this godly behavior, but they were treating their fellow man really terribly. And in my personal conversations with God, it was very clear that he was just like,

oh, oh, I get it, Jess, like you want forgiveness, but you don't wanna forgive. You want grace, but you're not willing to be gracious. And you want mercy, but you're not willing to be merciful. And he just kind of like laid it out. He's just like, look, like my whole life is an example of how you treat each other. Oh, so good. And just follow it. Faith is a very like real, very lived experience. And there's gonna be tons of trials that we just go through in life, yes, in marriage, but just as people, being a person's hard. You're gonna go through just like a lot of conflict. And even when you're in a good season of your marriage and you're in a good season in your life, that there will be a bad one. Like nobody's promised you a rose garden. Right. There's just a solution to how you get through those struggles. And that was the conversation that I had had. And it's not easy, but God just told me like this is how you treat each other. This is how I've lived by example. Like this is my word, like you know this, and this is how you persevere, and this is how you go forward. And I'm not saying that any of that's easy. It's just the solution to it.

Well, that's good, that's good. Teams can come. So we have one final question. And just one of you per couple to answer. Whoever's got the best answer. If there's a couple sitting here today who feel stuck, disconnected, frustrated, or even hopeless, what would you want them to know? Give God a chance to restore you individually and your marriage. You have nothing to lose if you try it, right? But your marriage, you're kind of thinking you might lose that anyway. So give God a chance. There is a marriage enrichment group of people that are here in this church to love you and to come alongside of you and to help witness to you or maybe not say anything and just walk along the side of you. We are blessed to have this kind of ministry. As you've heard, it has saved a few, if not many. Ditto. No, just kidding. I would say that based on my experience, you know, you're already here, you know? And if you're in a position where divorce is on the table, then the enemy is at work, you know? And for me, the enemy looks like thoughts. And when I'm in my thoughts and in my own head, I can convince myself of anything.

And I would say that for me, I had to seek counsel, spiritual counsel, to get my thoughts out of my head so that I could see the truth. And, you know, I've said this a couple of times to Candy and Oakley and my wife, that, you know, we sought counsel and we found spiritual solutions to secular sins. That's so good. Egregious sins. And, and don't ask to remember. I mean, don't underestimate God's power because the fact of the matter is, like, the results are up to God, it's up to us. It was up to me to do the work and us to do the work because Jessica put it in a lot more work than I did, I think, and in a lot of ways, and God's plan is beautiful if you allow it to be. Amen, amen, wow, wow, thank you. Can I go one more time? Absolutely, Mike, Mike has something he has to say. Yeah, Connie's real good about this, but she said something just not too terribly long ago to where, you know, we've got a good marriage, we do, and we've had a good marriage, but how do we make it great? Yeah. You know, so I challenge you, the ones that are out there that have good marriages,

that are coming to church, maybe are in small groups and stuff, but yeah, make it great. Get God at the center of it. Get involved with the marriage groups, their marriage enrichment groups. You will not, you will not, man, you can't go wrong by joining the marriage enrichment group, but yeah, make a good marriage, great. Amen, grace-filled marriages is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. I just wanna take a second and thank, thank both of these couples for being here and for sharing so beautifully what God has done and restored in your marriages, and may He continue what He started in you. So thank you.