Revival Is Breaking Out Inside America's Maximum Security Prisons | RETURN PRISON MINISTRY

We always felt we were called to go back into prison. Like, be in this prison. Isaiah 61 was like our... But I remember I was so scared. Jumping on the glass, screaming, you know, like, come in here. And I'm not a big guy, right? So I'm like... No one wants to come to church because that's where all the weirdos hang out. So I took that sentence and I treated it like biblical college. I mean, you had Muslims in the back that got trapped in the chapel, could not leave, had to hear about Jesus. I heard this thought that said, who do you think you are? And I started praying in the spirit. And I'm like, let me remind you of who I am. I'm like a daughter of the most high king. To this day, I don't think I've ever witnessed a baptism like this. Comes up and he's like, I want you to pray for me. I mean, demonic presence. Was not budging. Did not want to accept Jesus. This guy's responsible for... Close to 6,000 murders. The vision of, like, go after the real gangsters. Go after the cartel.

Go after the head of the skinheads. Go after... Welcome to the Evangelism is Easy podcast. I'm your host, Chris Donald. And today I'm here with my good friends, Jeremiah and Nina Porter. They have a ministry called Return Prison Ministries, which is a covered ministry of Mercy Culture Church, the church that I'm a part of and 33rd Company. And so excited to have a conversation with them about what God is doing in the prison. So guys, welcome. Thank you. Welcome to the podcast. Evangelism is Easy. I got to go in with you guys to the prison this past Saturday. It was my second time. What was the prison that we went to again? Coffield. Coffield. And it's one of the largest prisons in America. It is. About 5,000 inmates. Correct. And when in, there was at least 400, I would say, or more. Or more. I don't want to be an evangelist with my numbers, but there was probably at least 400 plus.

I would say so. Inmates there. I think what set me back was, we go in and I asked you about worship, and you're like, oh, they're going to lead worship. Yeah. And they had a complete worship team. Drums, I mean, saxophone, everything. Everything. And there was one man that was helping lead worship, and he was singing, my cross, or his cross, my freedom. Yeah. His stripes, my healing. And as he was singing, you could just see tears. And at one point in the worship moment service, you actually went forward and just knelt down at the altar. And I felt God's presence in that chapel, in a maximum security prison, like I feel on a mercy culture on a Sunday morning. Yes. And then maybe we'll talk a little bit more later about what all happened that day. But then I got the honor of preaching the gospel, and then we did baptisms. And there was 48 salvations, and I made it pretty clear. Yes. You're choosing to follow Jesus for the first time. And then 28 baptisms. But the baptism that I don't, to this day, I don't think I've ever witnessed a baptism like this. Yes.

A guy who was a blood gang member, right, was choosing to get baptized. Yep. And he requested that a rival gang, right, was a... A speaker of the crypts, which is like the shot caller, the guy that holds the keys to the yard over every yard, not just Cofield, but like every crypt that says he's a crypt, he's ahead of that. So it'd be like the president. Wow. So he requested that he would be there to baptize him. Correct. And even when we did like the service, like talking about how the service would go, the guy first aid was like, I'm going to go check and make sure because this is such a big deal because these guys are brought up absolutely opposing one another. Yep. So then all of a sudden it's like they're about... And that was a powerful moment. I don't think we've ever witnessed that before. It was. Yeah. It marked me. Powerful. It marked me. Yeah. So such an honor to have you guys on. Yes. Just want to start, Jeremiah, by just having you share your testimony and your story for those listening. Walk us through like how we got to where we are today.

Sure. So I think for me, I grew up in a household with my mom, single, raising three kids, no father active in our house. And I think that for me, as I look back, I was always in trouble. I don't know if you know those troubled kids, but that was me. Trouble found me. I was always in trouble. Everything I did had to do with being in trouble. And so I couldn't get anything right. I mean, it didn't matter if it was at school, at the babysitter's house. It didn't matter where it was. And as I look back now, looking back, there was a void that was in my life, and I think I just wanted to be heard. I think I wanted to be understood. I was not the regular kid. I think I needed some extra attention. My mom couldn't give me what my dad should have gave me. And so growing up, I looked at the world and the people in the world and the people that were getting in trouble as my influence of like, kind of like, oh, that's what a man should be. Oh, that's what a young man should be. And so that standard of what a young man was from what I seen was being in the streets, being in gangs, going to juvenile hall, going to jail, going to prison. And so as I back up a little bit, I remember being in trouble and always going to court. My mom belling me out, going, you know, talking to the judge. And going to court at what age? My first arrest I got was 12 years old. Twelve? Yes. For arson. Yeah. Making a homemade bomb and throwing it at somewhere, you know. And so arson charge. It was my first charge. And I remember going to court and the judge was like, what? You know, you come from a good mom. My mom was a born again believer. Loved the Lord. Told us all about the Lord. But when I was in there, it was just like this pattern. And though I would get out right there and I'd come back and I'd go back to my mom's house, I would still gravitate towards trouble. So all the kids in the neighborhood that were getting in trouble, I would gravitate towards them. They're smoking cigarettes. I'm smoking cigarettes.

They're smoking weed. I'm smoking weed. They're doing drugs. I'm doing drugs. And it was like I was just influenced so bad that I could not make a choice for myself to stand up for what was right. And so I remember them taking me, clear as day, to juvenile hall in Clark County, Washington. Um, taking me to a tour of juvenile hall because I kept getting in trouble trying to do like a scared straight program. And I went in there and I was like, man, no, this ain't for me. I'll never come here. And how old were you when you went in there? I was like 12, 12 and a half. So right around that. Yeah. Right around that same time. Cause it was right after that first charge. So they were trying to show me like, you keep doing the, you know, doing what you're doing. Here's where you're going to end up. So I went in there and I looked at that place and I seen those cold little cells and the rubber rooms for those who, you know, their minds aren't right. And they got them in there. They're on drugs, the drunk tank. And I remember like, no way. Cause I knew inside, like I knew there was a God, like I knew that there was something greater than what I was doing. And, but I, I went in there and looked at it and was like, you know what? I'll never come here. And then just weeks on down the road, picked up another charge. And then there I sit in juvenile hall. And so this thing went on for years, all the way from ages 12 to 17. Did I recycle in and out of those doors in and out, in and out? My mom would come to court, try to bail me out. But the judge finally was like, you know, no, something's not working. We're going to keep them in here. So I started doing time in juvenile hall. And then I remember when I was 17, they took me over to Clark County jail and they took us on a tour of jail in there. Guys were jumping on the glass, screaming, you know, like come in here. And I'm, I'm not a big guy. Right. So I'm like, wow, this is, this is pretty petrified. Yeah. But it wasn't enough to scare me from doing what I was doing because I liked what I seen in the streets, the movies that I watched, the music that I listened to, all those things affected my behavior and the way I thought scene and the way I put it into action. And so I went in there and was like, I'll never go to Clark County jail. And man, weeks later, I picked up my first charge as a 18 year old, 17 year old and got re-amended as an adult. And so I sat in Clark County jail for quite a while, continued to go on that cycle. Eventually would circulate through the Clark County jail. And then finally received my first prison sentence. And when I received my first prison sentence, I was 18 years old. And I remember them giving me this year in a day is what they called it. And I remember calling home and I was like, man, I'm going to prison. And it hit me like, these are all the things that you

said you would never do. And then there I was getting ready to go to prison. And if we back up just a little bit, my dad who was never around, my mom still cared enough about us to get in contact with them. And so I remember going to see him at Shelton in Washington as a little kid early on before I was getting in trouble. And we went to this prison and we visited him. And although he was not an active father, my mom was still trying to just get us to see him. And I remember going in there and seeing him like, wow, pulling up razor wire, gun towers, everything you see. And I was like, wow, this is everything. Like the movies we watch on the outside is way different from going in. So now fast forward another. thing I told God, I would never go to that place. Fast forward just five years later, I'm rolling up on the chain bus to this same exact prison and that same words hit me. You said you would never. The same prison that you went to. The same prison that my dad was in. And he said, and the Lord reminded me, you said you would never come here. And then there I was. And you would have thought that might've been enough, but it wasn't. Every time I got out of prison, I had great intentions. I used to read my daily bread, my little Gideon's Bible. I used to do all that. But then as soon as I left prison, I would just set it to the side. And then I would come out and get back with the people that I knew. What was comfortable for me. And I remember just like, why can't I shape, what am I doing that I can't make this right?

And I kid you not, I made it 60 days when I got out of prison and I caught a new charge. Went right back to prison for two years. Got out again, caught another charge. I was only out 48 days. Caught another charge, went back to prison again. I did this repeated pattern for four prison sentences in Washington State. I've visited every prison in Washington State. And every time I got out, I had great intentions. They just weren't great enough. Right. And then finally this last time, I remember getting out and I was out six months. Six months where I met my beautiful wife at that time. I was clean. We were doing good. She was clean. I was going to AA meetings. I was trying to do what they tell you to do. I was still reading, believing that God had a plan for my life. But I just really, to be honest with you, just couldn't find, I had no love for myself. I couldn't, I didn't put value on this guy right here. And so my life didn't mean very much. Although I had a beautiful fiance at this time, I proposed to her. And I was like, no, this is exactly what the Lord showed me. Because if we back up, when I was in prison,

the Lord showed me that I was going to marry this woman. And I only knew her from afar, but he showed me that I would have kids with her, that I was going to marry her. And it was just a visit and he showed me, and I wasn't very spiritual, you know what I'm saying? So once I received that, when I got out, we walked in it, but we were still, we were still walking with the world, right? We opened up the door to alcohol. Next thing you know, we're in the streets. Next thing you know, we're shooting dope. Next thing you know, we're back on meth. Next thing you know, I have pistols. Next thing you know, I'm robbing drug lords. And this is our lifestyle right now, within a matter of just months, months, months, months, months that it just caught me like that. And I remember getting busted at her apartment. They came there, they surrounded the place. I was tired, I was burnt out. I had told the Lord, I'm not going back to prison. I was suicidal in the fact that I wasn't going to take my own life, but I was going to have the cops to do it. I told her my plan. If I ever get busted, I'm just going to pull out my pistol and I'm going to let them shoot me because I'm not going back to prison. And I remember the day that they came to her apartment, for some reason, I went and took a shower

and they surrounded the place. I couldn't jump off the balcony, couldn't do nothing. And you were like, what are you doing? You're going to go take a shower when like the place is surrounded? I was like- Are you serious? Serious, tell them. I have like, like probably 11 police on the stairs, like trying to bang down the door. And I'm like, bro, what are you doing? He's like, I got to take a shower. I'm like, what do I do? He's like, don't open the door. I look at the balcony, there's like people with like, the SWAT team. And you went and took a shower. Yeah, and this will make sense here in a minute. But at that point, I'm like, I had no clue why I was going to take a shower. So I go take a shower and I have pistols around the whole house in strategic places. There was none in the shower area. I go in there and take a shower and they come through the door with the dogs. They kick in the door, they come in and they come in and get me naked, pull me out of the shower. I have no guns, I have no nothing.

And so, you know, as you look at it now, you're like, God, yeah, like, God, what? So just to fast forward, they take me to jail for all these guns, all this stuff they're wanted, drugs and all that, they take her to jail. It's snowing outside, I'm naked. And they take us to jail. I go to jail, she gets bailed out and I'm in there and I'm like, my life's over, right? Like I'm a career criminal, 25 years plus, plus these guns. And so I go in there and after a couple of weeks, I get a phone, they say, hey, Porter, report down to R&D. And I was like, oh man, where am I going? You know, I knew I had no bail, could not get out. And all of a sudden, they. release me. And I couldn't make sense of this. I go out. She's there with my, our daughter at the time, who was two, three at the time. She picks me up. She's like, how did you get out? And I'm like, I have no clue. Well, it turns out the state dropped the charges and the feds picked it up. So the feds were out in Washington building a case against me. So they would just come get me later. And so I went on the run. I took me, her and our child, and we went to Arizona and we went and absconded from the feds. And we were there about six months. They are there about six months. And she's a preschool teacher. I'm painting, trying to do some odds and end jobs. And I remember this day, she used to pray all the time, Lord, do whatever it takes for this man to serve you. Do whatever it takes. And I remember I just dropped her off at work and I'm driving back with my two-year-old and I look up and there's a helicopter in the sky. And then I look up in front of me and then there's the Phoenix police department. And I was like, something just wasn't right. I felt like something wasn't right. I was like, Oh Lord, what is this? And they instantly hit me like, you know what this is. So I'm going and I'm just continue to

drive. I pull into the bank parking lot real quick. And I'm like, I'm not going to do anything because I'm with my daughter. And they come in and they follow me and they, and I'm a known felon, red flag for guns. So generally they pull me out at gunpoint. They drew no guns, no guns. They came up to me and they're like, do you know what this is about? And I said, is this from Washington? And they were like, yes. And they're like, we can't arrest you because the feds are at your house waiting for you. I said, but I'm not, I'm not going anywhere at this point. I was ready to give up. And so I looked at my daughter, she's crying. So he's screaming and they took me from my daughter. And it was that day that I said, Lord, if you're real, I don't care if I lose my family. I don't care what happens to me, but if you're real, would you do something with my life? And it was that day. I just felt like he came in. It was like this piece rushed over me. And at the same time she's being arrested and you could tell what was happening to you at that time. I was in Scottsdale, a preschool teacher in Scottsdale. And it was a gentleman that came in. I got a phone call in my classroom that someone was there. And by the time I hung up the phone, a federal agent came through the door and grabbed me. And that same piece that rushed over him, I knew we were being hunted. I knew people who were wanted. I knew that. And he grabbed my arm and I looked down on his bracelet and he had a what would Jesus do bracelet on. And he said, come with me. It's okay. I was arrested and, you know, taken to jail as well. Yeah. We were in Sheriff Joe's, like the horseshoe of Arizona. I don't know if you ever heard of it, the horseshoe pit. And I remember we were in there the first day we just found out she was pregnant with Avery, which is our second oldest daughter. And they took us through the shoe, took a couple of days. And the next day the feds came and got me and they were like, don't worry, you're going to a better place because it was nasty where we're at. But my instant thought was like, I'm leaving my wife, you know, here. And so that whole separation. But I just began to go on this journey of trusting God no matter what. At this point, I'm like, I'm losing all them, my kids. I'm looking at 25 years. Easy. And so just to fast forward to go through this, is this that I went on with the feds. I'm looking at 25 years career criminal. She gets bailed out. She's on bail right now, working at, living at our house, you know, with my mom, we get everybody back from Arizona. She's fighting her case. We're praying for the prosecuting or her case because he couldn't stand me. And they knew that we were married. And so they wanted to make an example out of her. She'd never been in trouble before. So they were going

to send her to prison for two years. And so she would have had Avery in prison and had to give up Avery and all this. But we kept praying for that prosecutor and praying. And at the very last minute, the prosecutor dropped the gun charge and just stuck her with the dope. And that gave her 90 days. And so she was free. My stuff, we prayed for the prosecutor. I lost my suppression hearing. I was going against the career criminal and my standard range was like 188 to 200 some months. Um, and then the day before trial, they came to me and they offered me 77 months. So I called home and I was like, what do you think? Should we take this? Because the feds, if you go to trial with the feds, they will take you out. I mean, it's like there are 99.9 conviction rate. You have no joke. You have no, there's nothing you're going to get. And so we prayed about it. And I felt like I needed to take that sentence. So I took that sentence and I treated it like biblical college. Everywhere I went from Oklahoma to California to Washington to Oregon, every institution I was in, I just said, Lord, what do you have for me today? What do you have for me today? I mean, we came against the barriers of racism, like hooking up with, you know, other cultures and other people that weren't what we were. And I just felt like the Lord was like, what are you going to do? You said you were going to never come back here if I gave you another opportunity. What are you going to do? And I felt like the Lord was just kind of up, you know, looking down, what are you going to do? When you first get to prison as a white guy with tattoos, they look at you and they say, the head of the skinheads comes up to you. Who you run with? And I used to run Peckerwood, which is a white boy gang. And I just felt like this time I was like, no, no, no. I said, I'm a Christian. I'm running with Jesus. And he's like, OK, well, I'm going to let you know something. You get into anything on this yard, we don't have your back.

I said, that's fine. You know what I'm saying? Because I just felt like, man, I had to make that decision. In that moment. In that moment. And it's scary because I'm not a big guy, right? And you got, you know, shot callers that are like, no, you look like a white boy. You're going to run with us. And I was like, no, because I just felt like the Lord was like, man, I've got you. I've got you. And so. But as you went to do your time, the same skinhead who approached him with this like, we don't have your back, was the same skinhead who would come to him and say, hey, I need you to pray for me. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer. Wow. I mean, in the visiting rooms, he would see our families and we're an interracial couple. And by the way, they don't like Jews. You know, skinheads don't like Jews, don't like don't like anything. Right. So we're praying to Jesus. Right. You know, in your cell. It was almost like in that moment as I'm thinking about it, it's like, we can believe in Jesus. But in that moment, you said, I'm giving my allegiance. Yeah. Yes. And I'm actually following him and I'm trusting him.

Sure. With my life. I mean, that is a major thing. Even when I was in Michael's unit with you and I was talking to the 300 plus inmates that were there and I was like, many of you guys think that you're courageous or you're bold or you're brave, but the reality is, is you stand for Jesus in here. But out there, you don't stand for him. And that's a huge pivotal marking moment, I think, when you decided, Jesus, I'm following you. When did... So you get out, you do 77 months? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You get out. Tell me now the journey of how you guys, how did return get birthed to where, you know, you get, you come out of that and then God sends you back into it. Sure. Tell us the return story. Sure. So I think we'll tell it from here, I think, because it's perfect telling it from Fort Worth side of it, Texas, because it's really when it became live, but we've always known we were called to this. Navigating to figure out how to get to this was another story. When you say we were always called. Yeah. We always felt we were called to go back into prison, like be in this prison. Isaiah 61 was like our key scripture. You know what I'm saying? That God, he wanted us to go in to the broken hearted, you know, to proclaim liberty to the captives and open up the door to them that are in bondage. And so we knew that call, that burden to do it was there, but we had nobody to really

kind of like... Had no blueprint. We had no blueprint. There was no blueprint to do it. So when we come here to Texas, so we knew that was there. We've been into prison a couple of different times in Washington, very surface level. Yeah. That was there. But when we're here, the call came in an encounter, corporate fast, probably three years ago. Three years ago, I'm in an encounter talking with the Lord and he gives me Isaiah 61. And it was so clear. And then he says, inquire, he gave me the word inquire. He's like inquire at Mercy Culture. Is there any prison ministry? Is there anything prison related? Because I didn't know anybody at this time. I was in a small group and the Lord highlighted Brandon. And so Brandon was the guy that the Lord said, go to and talk to about all this stuff. Right. So I started sharing with them. And so that's how it first kicked off. We didn't have... We had no clue that what we were doing, we had no clue if Mercy Culture even had a prison ministry, but we knew that God told us to inquire and move on that inquire. And then as we continue to move along, he gave me Zechariah 1.3. It was a call to fathers to return unto God and God would return unto them. And so that's where the word return came from. And so God began to just download these blueprints to me of how this ministry needed to play out and how we would partner with Mercy Culture and continue to further the gospel. But the story of how we got in.

in is we went with another ministry into Michael's unit for an Easter service. And I think it was the Easter, not the, he wasn't there at the first one, right? No, I was at the second one. Okay, you were at the second one. The first one we went in with another ministry, I guess, right? So to speak. Yeah. We went in with, yeah, we went in with another ministry. We were in there and basically went just to serve. And they no longer, after that ministry moment right there, no longer were able to come back in. And the chaplain looked at us and said, all their dates, they're scheduled every month. Do you guys want them? And we were like, and we've been praying for dates. Literally handed it over. I remember that. Yeah. We were praying for dates, but had no clue again what we were doing. And so I remember calling her, I said, they've given us dates. Yeah. And like, let's ride. Yeah. Let's go. So that started at Michael's unit, which then spread into Coffield, which then- Spread into Hobby, which spread into Crane. Which where were you at this last Saturday when we were in Coffield? I was at the Women's Hobby unit on Saturday. Okay. All right. So now from that initial almost open door invitation where it's like, hey, you can have

all these dates. Yeah. I've just witnessed and in conversations with you, there's just been a tremendous favor. Yeah. It's just come upon you guys. Yeah. And an open door. I mean, even what I saw on Saturday, I'm like, you don't just walk into this. No. This is a divine door that God's opened up for you. Yeah. So then probably a lot like 33rd Company, it's like, I can remember when 33rd Company started, Aaron Christofferson said, whatever's in your heart, just write it down and do it. And then we kind of just, as we were doing it, we were building it. I'm sure there's some part of like God's given you a blueprint, but as you're doing it, it's being built out. From your perspective, just watching how Return has become what it is today, share a little bit of the journey from your side and your perspective of what you've seen. Well, when we first, when he shared this with me, and like I said, I'm like, let's go, let's do this. We had had a, it was on a Friday night, we had some friends over for dinner and they prayed with him and as they're getting ready to leave, she said, we'll be praying for you guys. And I said, well, I really think this is more Jeremiah's thing. You know, I'm just like here to support. And as the journey has gone on, and that same favor that he's had in the men's prison, it's followed me. I would have never, I would have never thought that I would be where I was at right now being able to lead women to freedom while they're in prison. So that was never my intention.

Like I said, that was his deal. I think I thought because I had never done prison time, all the time I'd ever done was county time. I think I separated that, but when you're in bondage, you're in bondage. I don't care if it's in prison, on the streets, in county jail, wherever it is. So God has used that to open the door. And it's like sin is sin anywhere. And the gospel is the gospel anywhere. Even moments when I'm in there with you guys and I'm preaching, I'm laughing because I'm like, I've never been arrested. I've never got anywhere close to being put into a maximum security prison, but yet the anointing and the presence of God comes. And it reminds me of the scripture, the harvest is ripe and ready, but the laborers are few. And so it's like just your willingness. I was in another state with a ministry that has access to prisons and this ministry will go in with the men weekly and they have an equal opportunity to go in and to minister to the women, but they don't have anybody that's willing to go because they don't necessarily feel qualified. And man, so how have you seen in those? Because I know I felt that even on Saturday, I'm about ready to stand up and speak to 450 inmates. I've never sat in their seat. What has God showed you in this process as you're ministering to them to show you that you are qualified to speak into it? I think just the willingness to go. I think that the enemy can come and lie to you and tell you how disqualified and what you don't bring to the table and what you can't do. Just do it afraid. Yeah, that's what I did. The first time I went into the prison, I had like five people with me. I'm the only one who's ever been.

to jail. Some have struggled with addiction, but I remember I was so scared and I was walking in front, I was walking behind my team and I heard this thought that said, who do you think you are? And I started praying in the spirit. I'm like, let me remind you of who I am. I'm a daughter of the most high king. I got this. He's going to go before me. And that's what we've said, Lord, we just want you to go before us. I don't care about what I am. I'm not a pastor. I'm not. But I know one thing and that's the resurrected king of Jesus Christ saved my life. So why wouldn't I share that with these women who were in prison and simple and are hungry? Yes. They're so hungry. Like I did a couple of Sundays ago, I preached at Mercy Culture and I put up the numbers of 33rd company one-on-one gospel shares. It was like, we've shared the gospel with 2300 people. And I think it was like 1300 or something like that. It said yes to Jesus. And it was like over 50% of the people that we share the gospel with get born again. And it just shows you that the harvest is ripe. And Jesus literally says the laborers are few. Take a moment and just explain what does return prison ministry do on a weekly basis? Just so that those listening that have a heart, because I really believe there's people listening to this podcast that are called to go into prisons. And I think that some of them are going to take steps of obedience after watching this. So just what is, what does that blueprint look like? What do you guys do on a weekly, monthly basis in these prisons? So for starters, we disciple. So we don't want to just come in there on a monthly, have a great church service, and then there's no follow-up. And so on a weekly, matter of fact, we have somebody in Cofield right now as we speak, right now in two different units and they are discipling going through the Teach Us Your Ways book, discipling basics of discipleship. Where do you go from being saved, from being baptized, water baptism, baptism of the Holy Spirit? So we're walking with these individuals, not on a bigger level, although I will tell you like we started off on a cap at Cofield, like 30 guys. So we could kind of just get into the heart, the nitty gritty. And we're going back to the units, not we're going outside even the four walls of the four walls, you know, on a weekly, this is on a weekly of what we're doing. And so I saw I went, yes, you've been there. Yes. I know where Rick is right now. God pray for Rick. So I've been back there in that space. And so it's not just these services, but it's actually discipleship. Yes. This is going into the nitty gritty area

of where we go, even like, you know, the gospel says, go out and make disciples, right. But also Mark says, go into all the world. This is like a part of the world where even Cofield being as big as it is in radius, like there's unreached, untaught places on Cofield from the hole to back where you went to all over that compound. Right. And so we felt like we needed to get out of the chapel of which you preached in, which is a great chapel for being in prison. But we needed to get out of there and go in and show these guys how to live on an everyday basis. And so we do that weekly, which we call it's our discipleship. We also do connect with God up there where we teach them how to connect with God, their best ways of how they connect. We walk them through all of that on a weekly or biweekly kind of deal. We are ready to go into hobby and do the same thing. We're waiting for the book to be approved, but she will be doing the same exact thing with the women. It's just not, I mean, it's just like, we can't stay in the four walls in the church. We can't do that in the prison either. There are in the men's and women's prison. No one wants to come to church because that's where all the weirdos hang out. So we can't just go in there, tickle their ear, present a good message, and then not be concerned about the rest of the unit. So as the women are coming in, the leadership, there's about 12 to 15 of them that sit on the leadership team. They just want to know how to be led. And their leadership team is so unhealthy. So I was like, well, we're going to get their leadership team healthy because what happens when you have a healthy leadership team, it trickles down to the rest of the church? It's literally the same thing we do here. Absolutely. I mean, we right now with you guys, Jay and Mike and Kayden from the 33rd crew went in and we're attempting to start a belong. Exactly. Where we're going to have prayer outreach and discipleship in a prison. That's just... Because when you get in there and you realize, oh, this is no different than living out here. Absolutely. They're facing the same challenges that many... believers face about like they come to the chapel, but then they go out there, live in a different

way, and they need to stand for Jesus, and they can actively make disciples. And I think the first time we went in, I think we had like 17 or 18, maybe there was more people that came. And I asked Jay, I was like, hey, I said, hey, how'd it go? And he said, I really think that they're getting it, that they're gonna be empowered to not just be discipled, but to actually make disciples. It was, that was so simple, but so profound. I don't even, I mean, I had guys, killers that are never coming home that were like, that was good. And I was like, because nobody, everybody knows they're saved, and they've got this gift, but you don't want to give it away. But then what? Yeah, then what? You just, you hold it. So like, you know, you're, you walk past the guy that you should be sharing it with, you know, to unlock his freedom, but you just hold on to it because you've never been taught how to get rid of it. And so they did such a simple job of explaining and walking through and doing a mock belong in there. And it was so impactful. It was so good. Talk about the Pando app real quick, just to let people hear about that. And then I got a couple of questions to wrap up with. So Pando app is just like a little iPad and they get on there and they can get sermons, teachings, other ministries, you know, that are on there. There's music, there's worship, there's all kinds of stuff. It's not like an internet thing. You can't just get on the internet, but Mercy Culture is on the Pando app. We've been on there for about four months, something like four, maybe a little bit more, four months. I looked at the numbers actually last night and we have almost 800,000 views. It's wild. 800,000 views of content. We have loads nationwide. Yes, this goes wherever Pando is, wherever Pando is. It says right now it reaches 1.9 million people, but it's growing. It's not even in the feds yet. And so it just continues to expand 800,000 views in the first four months, 184 salvations and 11, almost 12,000 subscribers. That's wild. So I always like to think about just the salvations because we've had just through return in partnership of Mercy Culture have had over 300 salvations just this year. And I think we had 300 total last year from going in. But now when you go digital, we're reaching far beyond. But this reaches the prisons that we may never be able to go into. And that's what when the Lord had told Jeremiah to inquire, I remember feeling that overwhelming feeling going into the first prison. And I was like, there's so much work to do, Lord. How? Pando is how. Yeah. Mercy Culture has been... The content that's on there, I mean...

It's amazing. Oh, they... I think they're getting Sunday morning sermons. Yes. They're getting the Holy Disruption podcast. They're getting the podcast. The Mercy Culture worship. Worship. Spiritual leadership podcast. Yes. All of it. That's so wild. How to hear from God, how to connect with God. They come up, the ladies come up to me, I figured out my connect way. It's fasting. I figured out their expression. So we let them dance before the service and they... It's amazing. I think Pastor Heather's podcast is the number one most watched thing in the prison. It's controversial. I love it. Holy Disruption. Yeah, exactly. I'll look at that. Okay. So if both of you just take two minutes a piece and share one testimony that stands out to you in the past couple of years. And if you wanna talk about... Sure. And then maybe you talk about that testimony. Sure. And then you think about one that you could share from the women's side. Sure. So I'm gonna back up before we went to the baptism of... I just wanna tell you that the warfare that we had to go through, even to get to this event where we went up there and we're doing baptisms, you preach that day. Yeah. Prior to that, going up there, car wreck after car wreck, just weird and abnormal

events were taking place. And we didn't think of it at that point as being spiritual warfare or what was about to happen. We just kind of was like, what is going on? Fights with spouses. I mean, it was like all over our whole team until we got together and we're like, man, what is this? So we go back into Michael's unit. We have this service. I don't know how many people got saved that day. I don't even remember at that point. You were at that service. You were. Yeah. A lot of people came for it. I don't remember the full... Yeah. It was another one of the simplest gospels. I mean, you had Muslims in the back that got trapped in the chapel, could not leave, had to hear about Jesus, right? Because he took me to church this Saturday and they literally locked me in. Yeah. I told my mom that. She was like, where did you go? I was like, yeah, I went to church and they locked me in the church, mom. Anyways. So we go on with this service. We did a call. For salvations. Yeah, everybody came up, but we still felt there was more like that God was still working on some people not knowing what was happening. And then after the service, right? I think was after the service Whose name was before? Comes up and he's like, I want you to pray for me. I was like, alright, what do you want? You know, what do you want a prayer for and I didn't realize Brandon had been praying with him earlier And he was complete dark-eyed. I mean demonic presence was not budging did not want to accept Jesus This guy's responsible for Close to 6,000 murders for the cartel. Yeah, he's in there for double life sent for life sentences for life sentence Yes, not not a chance at parole And so this guy comes up and he's like I'm ready to accept Jesus. So we lead him to the Lord Right pray over him and then we have the baptism now This is the kind of guy like when he goes up the whole crowd goes up. Yeah, right You're talking about leaders amongst leaders. They just watch and they follow we get him into the baptism And I think you'll recall this moment. He was shaking Right, but you're like no, it wasn't a demon. He was he was he was shaking like he was in the water

But he was so like nervous about getting baptized from like what everybody else was looking cuz you got the whole Everybody's watching what you know is doing and so we get him baptized. He gets saved He gets baptized come out of the water and then he said I want to be called which is his real name, which he had never been called before and so it was one of my favorite stories because Having led up to it I had no clue that we were robbing hell of such a powerhouse And so I the God gave me the the vision of like go after the real gangsters Go after the cartel go after the head of the skinheads go after you know, we and we had a prophetic word as a church Yes. Yes. Yes, we were gonna see that take place. Yeah, exactly well, so I That story I had not realized who he even was until we left and I got a phone call that night From one of the inmates and they called me they said do you realize who that guy was? So we're talking about it now at that point I had no clue and he goes that guy is one of the head guys for the cartel who's responsible for 6,000 murders underneath his head and You don't understand who he is and I was like it makes sense The enemy knew who he was. Yeah, but God knew who he was and God was marking him that day and We forever were you know suffering for you know on the way up for it not even knowing that Spiritual warfare he the enemy did not want us to take that soul right there. It was amazing, but we snatched that Amazing snatch. That's one of my favorite stories. Anyways, so we continue to disciple him to this day So I can't wait to see him again. Yeah, he's he's a great guy And I think for me when he when we go up to the women's every time we go up there There is some sort of deliverance that takes place these women who have been walking in same-sex attraction For years, you know when the women's prison, there's a hierarchy. Everybody has a role in the women's prison that some are grandmothers some are the mothers some are the It's a different than the men's prison, but you have women coming forward saying I know I'm not gay I know I'm not But they might look Yeah, like males. They look like guys. So I have these women coming forth like I know I'm not gay and they don't care anymore

They're sitting in the front row raising their hands praising God Thanking them for setting thanking him for setting them free From homosexuality Amazing on the leadership team Nina teach me and I'm like you asked the Lord to teach you You know like some of my some of the strongest leaders in there have come from That lifestyle and so to renounce that and come over to the other side Do you know they get a lot of flack for it? Yeah, you know, but they're leading well, you know, so it's It's never the same it's like working in a hospital like every day every time you go in there nothing's ever the same I I Feel like when I'm there compassion is unlocked like there was probably you guys were doing baptisms and I stepped off to the side for a moment because I just pretty sure I was gonna get some water and there was a line probably 35 40 deep and Each one of them. Can you pray for me? Yes Can you and it was like prophecy was so easy Yeah, every single guy got a word for it was like it's like you can truly feel God's heart I know that when I leave and what I can tell from you guys when you leave it it's actually like food, it's fuel. There was a lady, I'm forgetting, is it Jackie that went in with you? I was at the Narnia production at church and she was in front and Chelsea's like, hey, how was going? And she's like, oh my gosh, it was amazing. And you could just tell the overwhelming life that it gives. And it reminds me of Jesus saying, when he's with the woman at the well and sends her into the town, the guys come back, hey, you hungry?

And he's like, no, I know of a food you don't know of, it's to do the will of the father. And there's something about going in there that does something in my life that marks me. And then I get back home and I lay down in my bed and I'm so thankful I'm in my bed. But also it motivates me because I know that when I'm out in Fort Worth, I'm talking to a bunch of guys that are like, oh yeah, I'm from this part of town. They're like, where do you live? I'm like, Oakhurst. Like, oh yeah, we live just right around the corner. And like, we're having these conversations and I'm realizing the guys that I'm leading to the Lord that don't have fathers that are coming into the church, we're saving them from that. So it gives me fuel and motivation to go in and to have those conversations. So I do feel specifically, I'll just ask you guys one more question and then have you guys pray. There's people watching this and they feel like a call to go into the prisons. I mean, this podcast is called Evangelism is Easy. We know that there's hard moments in evangelism, but from what I've seen, there's the favor of God on your life. Even your story, your testimony, it's not maybe knowing if you're qualified,

but then God comes on you in that way. So there's people that are like, I don't, I don't necessarily, like I feel called, but I'm not qualified, or I'm fearful, or I just don't know, like how to start, what to do, what would be your advice? And both of you answer this. So those people listening to this feeling called to prisons, what would be your advice to them to get started this week? Sure. So for me, I would say, number one, if you're afraid, like these are just natural things that come up upon us. Yeah. I think obedience is better than sacrifice, right? So I think if you're obedient, we just listen to what God is saying and we just obey it so much sweeter. That's when it becomes easy. That's when the favor comes. But I would say, do it afraid. Gideon did it afraid. Yeah. King Jehoshaphat did it afraid. Move forward in obedience and just watch and see what's on the other side of that obedience. It's so sweet. I don't know how else to explain it,

but that I feel in my spirit, there's an urgency. And I know that time is running short from what we hear and what we see and what's all around us. And so for me, I would say that the urgency in my spirit is that people need that freedom. And you could be the answer, the key to someone's freedom. We all reach different people. Yeah. Who you reach, I may not reach. Who she reaches, I may not reach. Who I reach, you may not reach. Right. But we all play a part in the body of Christ. Everybody has a role in the body of Christ. But everybody's called to go out and make disciples. Everybody's called to go into the world. And so I would say this, move forward. Scared, afraid, doesn't matter. Just move forward and watch what God does. Because when he told me inquire, I was scared. I was scared. And it wasn't scared so much like about prison. Right. I was scared like, what does this look like? Like, you just want me to go and do what? Like open up the Bible? Like, what are we doing? What am I gonna say? Yes, but the Lord told me, if you go,

I'll show up. Amen. And so I'm not scared to go into any penitentiary, any prison in this country or any country. Because if God said, where I go, he'll show up. You know, when Jesus shows up on the scenes, what happens? Blind eyes open, limbs grow out, hearts get transformed, minds get restored. And then you find people at the feet of Jesus. And I think that's the fruit of what we do. Amen. Just inquire. Inquire, call the jail, call the prison, ask for the chaplain. Do you have a service? Can I come in? Because when we start operating like, I can't do it, I'm not qualified, what am I gonna do? We start making it about us. Yeah. And like Jeremiah said, you have freedom. The keys to freedom. Why would you not wanna give that away? Because you're so caught up in all these insecurities and what, we know we can't do anything without Jesus. We know we're nothing without him. Yeah. So just go. Yeah, we often say momentum happens when God and man meet in the middle.

Absolutely. So there's an invitation, you're saying, inquire. And you're saying, if God is calling you, just step out in faith. Step. And what I've witnessed. thing going with you guys is God moves. And it's wild that I could go into a maximum security prison and receive more than I give. But I received more this last Saturday than I could ever give by just seeing people that were truly transformed by the gospel. Like when you see a hardened individual that turns their heart over to Jesus, it's greater. I've seen blind eyes open, it's greater. Like what can God's love not do? It's wild to see it. And I would just say to those listening, one of the greatest ways to get started in any ministry that you feel called to is serving a ministry that's already doing it. So in your local churches, in your regions, you could do some searches and then see how you could serve in any capacity. And generally, if you serve, there'll be an open door for you to do something. So I just feel to have you pray as we close this out. Just pray for those that God... And not just stepping into prisons, but for those that God's inviting into something, would you just pray that they would take that step and inquire the Lord? Absolutely. Father, we just come before you right now, Lord. And I pray right now for everybody listening right now, when your heart is racing, the Lord is speaking to you. Just go. Do it afraid. Father, I pray right now for a boldness, Father God. I pray, oh God, that wherever they put their feet, you will show up first, Father. So we speak to fear, we say go in Jesus' name. And Father, I just pray an anointing and a boldness, Father, that they would go, Father. Give him your yes. So Father, we just thank you, Lord, for who you are. I thank you, Father, for ears to open and eyes to see, Father, that it is not about us, God. That you have called us, Father, to bring light into the darkness, Father. We have keys to freedom that you have given us. You said greater things we would do than Jesus did. So Father, I thank you right now for recovering, God. I thank you for a boldness. I thank you for strategy, and I pray blueprints, Father. In Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen. Amen.