Old Man/New Man Podcast - Marc Woodcock & Stephen Canup

It's time to put off the old man, which is corrupt, and to put on the new man, which is created in righteousness and true holiness. It's the Old Man, New Man podcast with host, Stephen Canup. Hey, thanks for tuning in. This is another Old Man, New Man podcast. I'm Stephen Canup. I'm here with my friend, Mark Woodcock, and we call this the Old Man, New Man podcast. We've got this old picture of me back here. If any man be in Christ, he's a new creation. Old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new. So one of the things we want to do today with Mark is just talk about maybe who we used to be, but what God's done. We're both ex-convicts, and we want to talk a little bit about what God's done in our lives since then. We are always wanting to put Jesus first and put God first, but we weren't always that way, were we? No. So let's just kind of start with a little bit of your background. You tell us a little bit about your family, and you grew up, and I know you played a lot of sports, and then you got into – you have some musical ability. So just fill us in a little bit, because that does come into play with your testimony. With the gift that God gave me, yeah. So yeah, I got married to my beautiful wife in 1985, so we've been married 40 years. Wow. Congratulations. But yes, I did. Growing up, I did. I started playing in bands, and with that, playing the clubs and playing small arenas and stuff, came a lot of drugs.

My whole thing with that was, man, I wanted to be a famous rock star. But I quickly found out that playing the clubs with a beer and a shot of whiskey and some dope on your amplifier, it wasn't very fulfilling. No. It wasn't fulfilling. And of course, we have a couple of beautiful kids, and we were raising them, and in that time period, we were doing drugs off and on. But yeah, like I said, when we first met, I was into it pretty heavy. So how long were you married before you went to prison? What did you go to prison for, and how long were you locked up? Was it more than once? No, it was one time at the ripe old age of 43 years old. I'll tell you, my mom had just passed away in 2011. I was locked up from 2014 to 2020. But you were 43? I was 43. So you did a lot of wrong things and just didn't get caught until you were 43. Well, the thing about it is, though, me and my wife, according to the world standards, we had a great marriage. I mean, we had the four-bedroom house, had the 66 99 Mustang, the pickup truck. We, together, we did pretty well to the world standards, but Jesus and God was nowhere in that. But through those years, we would, a few years here and there, we would get back into the drugs, and then we'd quit, and then we'd get back into it. But it's that old saying, when you think you have your house swept out, well, guess what? That demon goes and comes back with seven stronger ones. So as it goes with addiction, it seems like you stop, and every time you get back to it, it's even harder to quit. So what happened that led to prison? Well, my mom passed away, and I'm not blaming it on her, but it was a trauma.

And so for the two years after we moved out to the lake with her, and the two years after she passed away, I started drinking very heavily. I was up to about a liter or more whiskey a day, 100 to 150 milligrams of Oxycontin every single day. The doctor prescribed, and I don't even want to get into that. But anyway, so that was an everyday thing. And then on top of that, mixing meth and Xanax, a lot of drugs. And so basically, when I caught my charge, I was just the shell of a man. I couldn't look in the mirror and love myself, so how could I love my wife and my kids or anybody else? And man, my marriage was in shambles. My relationship with everybody, my community with anybody, I was just always too high and drunk. It was destroyed. So basically, the night I caught my charge, I was arrested, and of course, I was facing a 20-year prison sentence. And so I went to court, and they gave me 20 years. And then I had some other charges against me in another county. So a couple of weeks after that, I went to the other county, and then I was given two 10s and a three. So I had 43 years all rolled up into one A-run CC. Well, I remember finally getting to my unit, and I remember one night just getting on that hard, cold cell floor, man, prostrate across the floor, and I pull on my tears. And I said, Lord, I said, take my life and do with it what you will, because I haven't done anything with it up until now. And I remember getting up off that floor, and then I remember going to the— So this was your moment of surrender. That was my—you know, I believe that that's where God really wants you. When you're finally broken to the point where you have nowhere else to go but Him, and then you cry out to Him and say, please take my life, I believe that's music to His ears.

When you finally realize of myself, I can do nothing. That is music to God's ears. That's when He knows all your pride, you're releasing control. All of that's gone, and you're giving it totally to Him. Amen. You were serious. I was so serious, man. I was so serious that I got up, and I went to the phone, and I called my wife. And she was sticking beside me, but, you know, at this point in time, we'd already been married about 27 years. And I remember calling her and telling her, sweetheart, I don't blame you if you left me. As a matter of fact, I have been a terrible husband, you know, but if you stick by me, and I vow—I don't know how much time I'm going to do, but I vow that by the time I walk out these gates that I will be the husband, I will be the father, I will be the man that my family deserves. I will be the friend that the community deserves. And so, and she did. She stood right by me, you know. And then, so, right after that, I thought, man, I just want to serve behind bars, whatever I can do. And with my music background, I was able to be on the worship team, and that was such a blessing. I played with lots of amazing musicians. I am amazed sometimes when we get to go in and do our crusades and revivals and the praise team is up there. I'm telling you, that's some of the best talent. And to see them in church, dedicated— Yep. But see, what's crazy about that is that out in the world, they could be doing this,

but they're doing the worldly things, man. And so finally, when they get to prison and they're finally sober, and then they're—you know what I mean? Then their true talent and the gift that God gave them starts coming out, you know, and then— And they turn it over to God. Yeah. And they turn—yeah, yeah. For Him to use it. Absolutely. Right. And that's—there's all the power you need. Amen. Amen. And then, so, I was serving. I was on the worship team. I was a mentor in the faith-based dorm, and like I said, I was serving wherever I could. It was all about serving God. And then these ministries would come in, and man, I just—I thought the world of them, you know, that they loved us so much that they would come in. But there was this one ministry that really caught my eye, the Freedom in Jesus ministry. And so I remember y'all came in to visit, and I'm going to tell you right— This was in Amarillo at the— This was in Amarillo. —Neal Unit? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The Neal Unit was still open at that time. Yeah, yeah. And I believe—I mean, of course, I didn't know it at the time, but I was still going

to do three more years when I first saw y'all. You know, I still—you know, I hadn't made parole, you know. And let me back up a little bit. You know, I didn't make my first parole, and I didn't make my second one, but I remember after that second one, you know what, I just said, Lord, you know what, I'm releasing all this to you. You let me go when I'm ready to go. Come on. And I'm going to tell you, the chains fell off of me, and I never—I felt freer inside the gates of that prison than I did out in the world, because the chains just came out. I said, Lord, whatever you got for me in here, let me experience that, and then you let me go whenever you're ready. So fast forward again back to that. I remember y'all came in, and man, I remember Janet getting up there and doing her praise and worship. And I thought, man, that's so beautiful. Man, he come up there and man, he gave his word and man, and then of course you and Steve got up there and it just, it dawned on me right there at that second, I said, that's what I want to do. That is my calling right now. That's what I want to do. I want to come back to prison. And it was amazing. As a volunteer. As a volunteer, yeah. Yeah. And it was amazing because how God works, man, is that, you know, I was thinking that to myself. And then as soon as I thought that, I thought, but I want to be a part of that ministry, but I also want to start my own, you know, eventually one of these days, it may be long

time down the road. Yeah. Well, God put that in your mind. In my mind. In your heart. Yep. And I'd already, and I already came up with a name for it. And I'll tell you, it came to me in a dream. The name of the ministry, and we'll get to it later, was White Horse 1911 Prison and Worship Ministry. And it's from Revelation 1911 where Jesus comes down on the white horse. And now where the horse comes into play is that if a, you know, at war, if a master takes his horse into war, but he's loved that horse and he has nurtured that horse and taken care of that horse and just treated that horse, you know, with love, that horse is going to ride to its death with his master on his back. And that came to me kind of in a dream and I thought, okay, that's what I'm going to call it. So, like I said, So you had that idea then? Yeah. Yeah. Before I even made parole. That's what's so amazing about all this, man, is that, man, I had that vision, you know, three years before I ever made parole. Wow. Well, like I said, y'all came in and I seen y'all the first time and then y'all came again. And then that third time you came in, man, you were talking about this program. We were coming about once a year. Yeah. Y'all were coming once a year.

Yeah. Yeah. And the next time you came in, y'all were talking about this program you had. And y'all were wanting people to, hey, if you want to be a part of it, you know, sign up for it. And, you know, we're going to pick some people. And what was amazing about that was I know y'all had hundreds of applicants. I know y'all did. Maybe even thousands. I don't know. But I said, man, that's what I want to do. I want to do that. So I put in my application and, hey, all glory to God, man. I was one of them. Yeah. Praise God. We enjoyed having you, too. But wait a minute. Let me see if I can. You were. Yeah. So. Well, you were. But now here's the thing. So now I have to tell my wife that when I make parole, I'm not coming home. That's right. I didn't even tell her. Yeah. Because this is a red-crusted residential. Yeah.

Yeah. It's because, man, I still believe that I had some things that I needed to do before I got because I promised her. And some things God needed. God needed to do in me because I made a vow that when I got home, I would be, you know. And so, like I said, and I was accepted into the program. So when I made parole and I finally I remember I talked to my wife. She said, oh, you made parole. You're coming home. I'm like, well, I made parole, but I'm not coming home. I'm going to go. I'm going to go stay in Lubbock for a year. And she's like, they were pretty mad at first, but she understood, you know, she knew, you know. And so, so, so I made parole a little bit about the last and then I had to do six more months and this comes into play, six more months at an FI6 program at the Havens unit in Brownwood. Substance abuse program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before they go home. Yeah. But, you know, thing is, is when I got that FI5, I'm like, hey man, I'm going home, you know, but I still had to go do a stop in Brownwood Havens unit. Yeah. And so I finished doing the Havens unit and I went to halfway house for a couple of months and then I headed out to Lubbock. And so I got to Lubbock and man, I just can't tell you what a blessing it was. You know, man, there's just no words to describe the blessing that came with that.

And you actually got to do some praise and worship for Mark and Janet Stripling. That was, wasn't it? Look, so what's crazy is though, so I played all this worldly music, you know, and then in prison when I finally, you know, finally, basically I said, Lord, you gave me this gift. You can praise me however you want to. And it was crazy because I was on the worship team at every prison I was in. I was probably the hundredth, couldn't sing very well and my guitar playing wasn't good, but God does it. Call the qualified. He qualifies the called. So with no effort, man, I was just on each praise team. And then when I get out of prison. Then I show up at this little old starter church out there, Joe Narvaez, any day now. There's a little body shop with Mark Striplett and them and Albert Bucharest. I show up and the next thing you know, Mark and them are like, okay, well, we got to go and now I'm leading worship in a church. I mean, within a month of getting out of prison, you know. It's a starter church. I mean, but it was just amazing how God was working. Then you actually got to help in another church, Stones Cry Out. That's the one I'm talking about. That's the one that you're talking about. That was the one because it started out at Joe's body shop. Oh, that's right. It started out at Joe's body shop. Yeah, and it was so awesome. What a great place for the body of Christ to meet is at a body church. It takes away the hell damage. Right. Well, and Joe Narvaez, y'all find his testimony on Pando and Edovo.

He had a double life sentence and in a Texas prison and he didn't think he was ever going to get out. And lo and behold, he's been out, this is 2025. He's been out 17, 18 years and owns two body shops, I think, or something. But anyway, yeah. So any day now, Joe, he's part of our family and he sure is, man. So what happened after you finished that year at Kingdom Towers and then you go back to Central Texas. Yeah. So I went back home and of course, the first year I was out, I was on a leg monitor. So it was intense. So right at the end of that, I couldn't go anywhere but to church, work and to the grocery store. Yeah. Better than being locked up, though. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so when I got home, I still had a couple more months left on that. But the thing was, as soon as I got off my leg monitor, it was like, you had to be out 18 months before you could get vested in that TDC, the volunteer thing. But I remember coming off the leg monitor and calling you and like, hey, well, we got a crusade, we can bring you in as a special volunteer. So I came back up here and did that. And I think I might have did one or two with you guys, and I'm sitting here thinking, man, I can't wait. I can't wait. And then finally, I got the okay. It took about eight weeks. When I finally applied, it took about eight weeks. To get status as a full, a regular volunteer with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice,

to be able to go in more often. Yeah. And more anytime I want, you know. Pretty much as long as the chaplain sets it up. Yeah. And what's crazy is, and I had told the chaplain at the Havens unit that I'm coming back. Oh, yeah? And I'm bringing you a new guitar. Oh, really? And so anyway, as soon as I got that, man, I called him. The new guitar for the unit. For the unit. Yeah. So the guys could use it there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Matter of fact, it was the guitar that Eric and Tracy got me to do worship for Stone's Cry Out. Stone's Cry Out Fellowship. I ended up taking that and giving it to the unit. Wow. Wow. But what was crazy was I told the chaplain, I said, I'll be back. And as soon as I got vested, I called him and he says, all right, man. So he set me up. And after I did that service, he's like, hey, man, you want to come back more often? I said, how about once a month? Wow. So for the last three years, I've been going to the Havens unit once a month. Wow.

And that's a couple hour drive or so. About almost three. About three hour drive. And then I've been sprinkling. And now your wife goes with you. Yes, that's amazing. So, and of course, I've been sprinkling in some Crusades and then we've had some doors. But what was really cool about it and what's such a blessing about this is that after about a year of going in and I'm like, I'm like, baby, you want to go in with me? And she's like, why not? So she, it literally, when she put in her application, it took her two days to get the okay. That's all? Yeah. Maybe. She doesn't have a criminal record. No, but I think maybe chaplain Miles had something to do with it because he called him and said, hey, we need her in here, man. And so literally, we were supposed to go that next Sunday and they did it on Monday. So now, I mean, that's the beautiful thing about this is that my beautiful wife is now my ministry partner and we go in. She's definitely your better half. Yeah. For sure. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's no doubt about that. Yeah. But so, yeah. So y'all take this opportunity.

So you're going into the Havens unit and you take this opportunity to really begin to actually start your own prison ministry. Yes, sir. Which I noticed you've got one of your shirts on today. And lo and behold, what's the name of the ministry? A White Horse 1911 Prison and Worship Ministry. Just like the vision you had in- I'll tell you. So that, it's amazing, man. So we actually launched- Watch this ministry April 3rd. April 3rd was our 40th anniversary. Of this year. Of this year. 2020. Yeah. And so when I say launch it, I'm not talking about, well, we got a website and all this other stuff. Nope. Just me and my wife just prayed about it and said, we bought us some shirts and said, here we are, Lord. Amen. And Isaiah 6, 8, the Lord says, what does he say? He says- Here am I, send me. Yeah. He asks us, who's going to go for us? Yeah. What does he say? Who will go for us?

Yes. And here are we, me and Karen. Yeah. And I'm going to tell you, man, so we launched this April 3rd. Now we had been going to Haven's unit. We had been doing some crusades and there was a couple other times we were able to go in, but there was some other times where by my own effort, I was trying to get into some places that- Yeah. It just wasn't working, right? It just wasn't working, yeah. April 3rd, man, we got up off our knees, man. And it was like, we just got up and looked down this hallway with all these doors and all of a sudden these doors just kept slamming open, man. It was open. Ever since April 3rd, man, I mean, somebody had texted me today because I told them that I was coming down to do this and they said, man, thank God for all your effort. I'm like, no effort. There's no effort. The thing is, is when you're walking in your calling, it's all the Lord's work. But also it took you and her getting down together and surrendering together- Oh yeah, absolutely. When you were both on board together, I think that's so important. Well, what's amazing is the whole time that I'm doing my walk with God in prison, she starts beginning to do her walk outside. Praise God, yes. So he was working on us both. Now I'm not going to go into her testimony, but she went through some pretty tough trials out there while I was locked up, which even makes her testimony so, so much- Very compelling testimony.

So, so- It's a wonderful testimony. It's so powerful. What God's done in her life. Yeah. And so, like I said, ever since then, man, we're fixing to go to Kansas with the Spencer group that came in. Okay. Yeah. Working men of Christ. Yeah, man. I asked him, I said, hey man- I think it's Topeka, Kansas. Yeah. We asked. As soon as we ran into him at the last crusade, I'm like, hey man, we'd love to come up and do some prayer. Yeah, we had him come down to the Hughes unit just recently. Yeah. And he said, hey man, yeah, just give me a call. We got you. I've got this thing set up in Missouri with a chaplain up there that's coming. And then another ministry that I ran into, Wade in the Water, he's got us set up- Ron and Laura Wade, Oklahoma. He's got us set up for Oklahoma in September. They were down here with us recently too. Yeah. And then now also, man, by the grace of God, man, we have the keys to the faith-based dorm at the Hobby Unit. We can go in anytime we want.

We go on Saturdays. Amen. Yup. And we'll go once a Saturday. That's actually a women's unit. It's a women's unit. In Central Texas. Yeah. Yup. Yup. Yup. So you're able to go in there, what'd you say, once a month to the faith-based dorm? Well, I mean, they got us set up to come in every Saturday. That way, we can't come one Saturday, but we're going at least one Saturday, maybe two if we can. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. And then we got this last crusade, we were at the Murray unit. And before we left, they scheduled me and Karen to come in on July 20th. That's another female unit. Another women's unit. The thing that's really powerful about the women's unit is because Karen, she's coming out of her shell. She's really good one-on-one, but going into the women's unit is really pulling her out of her shell. That's good. And she's able to get up and really talk and stuff. Get more comfortable. Get more comfortable than she is in a men's unit.

But it doesn't matter because we're both there to serve our brothers and sisters in white, man. It doesn't matter. So thinking about this, we all sometimes think that, well, when we get out, we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And so many times you get distracted by the world. And what would you say are some of the key things to help the men and women that might be looking at this podcast to give them hope and encouragement that if God has put a vision, it doesn't have to be ministry necessarily. But God, so we know, Jeremiah 29, 11, where God says, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you and plans to give you hope and a future. But we have a part to play in that because it then says, then you will come to me and pray to me and I'll listen to you. And you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all of your heart, I will be found by you, says the Lord, and bring you back out of captivity. So what kinds of things do you think were most important for you as you stepped out and began to trust God, because you went all in, as you said, on the floor of that cell, and you've never really looked back. I mean, none of us are perfect. No, no, no, no. But what would you say are some of the key things that would help others that are even still locked up? Well, I think the major thing is that when you really come to Christ, He puts it in your heart to serve. I mean, that was the big thing, man, was He just softened my heart to serve others. And Jesus came, He said, to be a servant of all, right? Absolutely. And I love this quote, He who refreshes others refreshes himself.

And it's so true. I mean, it's a blessing to be able to serve, but it's so awesome because you get the blessings back from those you serve. We say that a lot when we go on these crusades. I think the volunteers get more out of it than the offenders. You're 100% correct, man. I got to agree with you, man, because, man, I come out of that place sometimes, man, just in tears, and just in awe of what's going on. But, you know, truthfully, for me, I love serving, but I'm a little selfish. And I know you guys that are incarcerated are going to think I'm crazy, man, but prison was a blessing for me. I wouldn't change it. And one of the reasons why I go back in is because I miss it, because there's no church like prison church. I'm going to tell you right now, man, you can go to churches out in the world. So it just so happens I'm able to go back in and do church in prison, and that's a little bit of a selfishness, you know, a little bit of selfishness. And then sometimes maybe go to ODR. I think it's okay to have pleasure serving God, to be fulfilled. Because a lot of times you're thinking, oh, I can't wait to get out and serve in the church, right? Here I am, man. Well, I can't wait to get out to come back into prison. It's like you're breaking into prison instead of breaking out. Yeah, it's crazy, man. Because truthfully, man, like I said, while I was waiting for that parole and I finally gave it to God, after finishing my time, I look back and seeing the reason why I was there longer. There was relationships and there was opportunities that needed to come before I was released. And I look back and I'm so thankful.

It's kind of crazy because the praise team that I was on at the Neil unit, fabulous musicians. So me, the keyboard player who's fixing to go in the recording studio with me, and then the guitar player, the drummer, and one of the singers, we're all from different – El Paso, San Antonio, Rockwall. All over Texas. All over Texas. Texas is a big state, y'all. If you hadn't been here, it's nearly a thousand miles across. And I'm from Waxahachie, but the thing about it is we all paroled out within 30 miles of each other. Really? Yeah. Wow. So me and the keyboard player, that's what's – And y'all had plans to try to, one day, to – Well, me and the keyboard player already have. Wow. We're fixing to go in the recording studio. Wow. Yeah, I got a couple opportunities. I think I might have just ran into another one, but I've got an opportunity in Oklahoma. A guy wants to do it. And so Richard, my brother in Christ, man, he's at another ministry. But yeah, we've already started the process of recording the songs and getting them ready to record. It's amazing, isn't it? Wow. And we told each other. We told each other, hey, when we get out, we're going to jam. I'm in San Antonio, you're in Waxahachie.

We'll figure out a way to do it. And these are songs that glorify God instead of glorifying the world. Absolutely, man. He's an on-time God. Thank you, Jesus. Enduring mercy. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of advice would you give to the men and women that are still locked up that might be watching this as to – The thing is, is don't lose hope. Don't lose hope. Don't lose hope. The reason why I do this is to let you guys know, if I can do it, I promise you, you can. I'm like Apostle Paul, man. I was a sinner of all sinners, man. And the Lord just says, you know what, I can still use you. That's right. I just need you to get your act together. And then, of course, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, you know. He is. He's refining our character. And so one thing I do want to say is, and I got a message about this I'm going to give out at Kingdom Towers today, but it's about your struggles. You know, Apostle Paul says in 1 through 5, he says in 1 and 2, he talks about the glory and the coming of God.

We're going to rejoice in that. We're going to rejoice in all that, the preaching, the resurrection. But we also – also rejoice in our sufferings. Now sufferings, not death, but in our trials and our challenges, he says to rejoice. And the thing about it, joyce is a word, and re, it's a grammatical prefix. Joyce is a word, it means to leap. And re means to keep leaping. And so I think in so many times people are giving the devil too much credit for what they're going through, because it could possibly, because the only way to stay humble is for God to give you trouble, right? And so I think some of the things that you're going through are actually there to build your character, to start stripping away that stone and stuff so that you can actually walk and, you know, and it comes to purify you. You know, in James 1, he says, he, oh, James 1. Count it all joy when you face trials of many kinds. Yes. Yes, Peter, he says, embrace, you know, for they come to make you pure as gold, right? So God uses these struggles like this, you know, our prison, our prison time or whatever you're going through, he uses these struggles to strip that away, man, to really show you who you are, you know. And so the word rejoice is kind of also based in that root word of joy, which means to reignite your joy. Yes. Right. Yeah. And we have to be intentional about that. That's really a choice, is how we're going to look at life and are we going to be grateful or are we going to rejoice or are we going to be, you know, thankful and – Well, if you rejoice in your sufferings, you're never going to have a bad day.

Every day's going to be good, right? That's right. Never have a bad day. Exactly. Because I'm happy when struggles come, right? Yeah. Amen. Yeah. So, amen. Yeah. Amen. You know, like Steven and I, I'm speaking for myself and I probably could be speaking for him, but these ministries, all I want to do is come in and give you hope and strengthen your faith and just let you guys know, man, we love you. You know, y'all are my brothers and my sisters, man, in Christ, you know? And the thing is, is I want to see you get out and prosper and through my testimony, if you can just see what I was and who I am now, to let you know that you can absolutely do this, you know? But that's the main thing and really just coming in and – because I love you. I love coming in and singing some songs about Jesus, taking you out of the prison for a little while and, you know, just having some fun. What would you say to someone that might be tuning in that they haven't really surrendered yet to Christ, you know, like you did? You came to that point. Well, I mean, unfortunately, everybody's rock bottom is at a different spot, you know? Because I've seen guys, I mean, I've heard the stories, hey, how many times you been in? Oh, three times. Yeah, man, I served the Lord all three times. He said, I served the Lord and then I got out and, you know, got off work one day and

just thought I could have a beer and then the next thing you know, it turned in and he's back at the crack house. That's one of the things the enemy wants to – You already know. Oh, you're doing good. Yeah. You deserve this. I know it's hot outside. Yeah. You can have one beer. You can have one hit. And of course, that's a lie of the enemy and they'll back off the resistance. But that's the main thing is – and I mean, I can't stress this enough, you know, because I can pretty much guarantee that it's probably 90% of the folks that are in prison are behind drugs and alcohol. They might not have been high or drunk when they did it, but – Statistically. Yeah. I can't hardly say that word, right? Yeah. Statistically. Statistically, that is true. I've seen that at least 80% are there somehow related to an addiction issue. Maybe they were driving drunk or maybe they were stealing to support their habit or maybe they made some bad decisions because they were high. It could have even been addicted to pornography. Right. That's right. So pornography – Which I had that issue myself.

Yeah. I had some issue with that too. But if you think about it, drugs, alcohol, and pornography, usually – now, not – the thing about it is – and then some of us are in there because they experienced trauma and they're younger and then they use the drugs to mask that or whatever. And then, of course, you know, it just snowballs into what it becomes. You know, there's no way out of it. If you're going to continue doing drugs and alcohol, that's not the way out of it. So – The only way out is Jesus Christ. That's it. I'm telling you right now. I mean, there's no other explanation for the – you know, my marriage after 40 years is stronger than it ever has been. We were so much happier. My relationship with my kids, my relationship with my community, my relationship – shit with myself. I can look in the mirror and love who I am, you know, and so now... Jesus said we're to love others as we love ourselves. Absolutely. So a lot of times we have problems forgiving ourselves, but we need to look at ourselves the way God looks at us, right? And then we can help love others. We can love others because God's shown us that, you know what, I've forgiven you. You know, and through my time being locked up, there would be times where I'm like, hey man, you coming to church? No, man, I'm not coming to church. How come? He's like, man, I just don't think God can forgive me for what I've done. You know, and then I'm like, man, I'm telling you right now. And then I take them to scripture or whatever, say, God forgives you. He forgives you so you need... And that's a huge problem, I believe, especially with the folks that are locked up is they just have a hard time dealing with what they've done and they just don't believe they can be forgiven. But if you're watching this, you are forgiven. All you have to do is get on your knees and ask Jesus into your heart and repent, truly repent.

If you're truly that sorry, and the thing about it is if you're that heartbroken about not believing God, then that means you're truly repentant. It's like, man, and so... Not believing that God could accept you because he just says, I realize I've done wrong, and that's the way God wants us to come to him. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you go to him with a true heart and say, hey, I repent. Right. And I need you. Right. I need you. And of course, like I said, that's how it happened for me. Amen. Amen. Me too. I had to come to the end of myself. Oh, man. Like the prodigal son in Luke chapter 15, verse 17, he finds himself in the pig pen and he gets to thinking, he says, you know, even the servants at my father's house have plenty to eat, and here I am starving to death. He said, I'm going to get up and go back to my father and say, father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. And he wants to just come back and be a servant. But his father receives him back as the son that he always was. He never stopped being a son. Man, don't get me to preaching. I'm just telling you, amen. He threw that robe on him, man. Right. He gave the fatted calves, the best. Luke chapter 15, y'all, if you've never really studied that chapter, just go read that chapter. It's about a lost sheep and a lost coin and a lost son. And yeah, it's awesome. So I guess as we get ready to close this out, Mark, is there any other advice or anything else you want to tell the men and women that might be watching this to give them some kind of hope and encouragement? Man, really all I can end with is, man, just don't lose hope. I mean, that's the biggest thing that I can say is just don't lose hope. Stay in your word. Yes. You got to stay rooted in your word because the words that come, that's the living word of God. Amen, amen. And it's going to speak to you more loudly and clearly than we can.

That's right. And so the thing is, is you need to stay rooted in your word. And that's my number one advice because, I mean, you're in there with a lot of time and you got time to read the Bible front to back, maybe more than once. I don't know. I know I did. But just stay rooted in the word, man. You got to keep your faith. And for those of you who have families, they're waiting on you. And so the thing is, is you don't want to go out the same person. You need to let them know, hey, I'm taking this time to work on myself so that when I do get out, that I am going to be the father. My character is going to be changed. I am going to be the father, the husband, the son, the person. And so really take this time. Or the daughter or wife. Or the daughter or the wife. Females. Absolutely. And that's the whole thing is taking this time to reflect and work on yourself. Well, I know one thing. We've never regretted total surrender and total submission, have we? Nope. And you'll never regret it. I just want to thank you, Mark, for coming today. It's my pleasure, man. And one of these days we'll get Karen on here, maybe. We will. We definitely will. So I want to thank you for tuning in today to the Old Man, New Man podcast. And we just know that if any man be in Christ, he's a new creation. Amen. And thank you, Jesus. That's one of my favorite scriptures right there, man. Right. So God bless you and wish you the best. And we'll see you next time. Amen. God bless you. ♪♪