Old Man/New Man Podcast - Christine Garza with Stephen Canup

It's time to put off the old man, which is corrupt, and to put on the new man, which is created in righteousness and true holiness. It's the Old Man, New Man podcast with host Stephen Canup. Well hi, thank you for tuning in to another Old Man, New Man podcast. I'm Stephen Canup. This is my friend Christine Garza that's going to be with us. We're going to have a big conversation today. This is the old man, and this is the new. We take that from 2 Corinthians 5, 17, if any person be in Christ, they are a new creation. And old things have passed away, and behold, all things have become new. So you can know that you know that you know for sure when you're born again, things begin to change in your life. And Christine, I know you've got a great testimony of who you used to be and how things have changed in your life and what God's doing in your life now. And that's what I really just kind of wanted to have a conversation with you today about that. And then, you know, we've got, all of us have a past. And without spending too long on your past, give us kind of a summary of your life growing up. I mean, what was that like? Did you have brothers and sisters? Well, I grew up here in Lubbock, Texas, on the north side of town. And it's called the hood. You know, most of the people that are aware of Lubbock know about the hood, the north side. And, you know, I grew up, you know, in an abusive home. My dad was an alcoholic and, you know, my mom was always working. So, you know, I, nobody was there to raise us. I had one little sister and two older brothers. And, you know, they're, you know, they all, everybody had their own life and stuff.

And so I started hanging out in the streets at the age of 11, 12, you know, I started hanging out with people, started a little bit first, you know, neighbors across the People your same age or? Yeah, a little bit older. You know, I like, I always used to like hanging out with older people and, you know, my neighbors across the street were, were the bad ones in the neighborhood. Everybody, you know, everybody feared them and, and, you know, so I started hanging out with them. And, you know, it was like a bunch of brothers and one sister and, and so, you know, they, they were using drugs, of course. And then I, you know, I took my first hit of weed off of a bomb, you know, there at their house. And then from there, it just escalated. And you were 11 or 12? I was 11 or 12 years old when I took my first, you know, when I was into drugs, when I started doing drugs. Yeah. And, you know, and then I guess at that point, it was kind of relief for me, you know, that first hit because of the fact that, you know, it takes me away from, from, you know, seeing my dad abusive to us and my mom. And, you know, I grew up in that household where my mom used to have to sneak us out in the middle of the night, you know, because my dad was sleeping with the, with the knife under his pillow. So my dad was very, very abusive to us and to my mother. And, and, you know, emotionally, emotionally, physically. And, you know, my, even though my mom was very, very hardworking and, and he, every weekend it was the same thing, drunk, drunk, alcoholic. He was always... So during the week, he worked and kind of... He would kind of chill during the week, but, you know, and still drink.

But on the weekends, it was Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we already knew we had to either get our little bags ready, our sleepover bags to go to an aunt's house or to a grandparent's house because we know, you know, how my dad really was. It's a shame. Yes. I think a lot of people can probably relate to that, unfortunately, unfortunately. You know, broken home. That's where, you know, that's where the enemy enters. And I've been doing a lot of studying on how the enemy entered and it enters through childhood trauma. Wow. And, and, you know... You certainly had some childhood trauma. Yeah. And the enemy enters at anybody at a very young age through any kind of trauma. And so, and it, you know, the enemy was just there with me all the time. And, you know, at the age, you know, at the age of 14, 15, it started, my drug habits started getting worse and I was started doing cocaine, you know, speed balls and... How were you paying for all this? People from the streets, friends, you know, there was always parties around the neighborhood, the hood, you know, everybody had the drug, the cocaine and the free alcohol. And, you know, everybody, everybody just, you know, had had drugs all the time. And, and so I remember that one time that, you know, I had, I met, you know, at the age of 15, I had met this older man and he gave, he gave us drugs and, and I ended up, you know, at the age of 15, I thought, you know, I just wanted to get away from Lubbock. And he was from East Texas. And he said, let's go. And I ran away at the age of 15. So you ran away from home with him? With him, yes.

And went back to where he was from, was East Texas. What happened? So he was very abusive. So wait a minute, you didn't finish school? No, I didn't finish school. So you just quit school? Yes, I was going to 10th grade, I remember. And that was barely ninth grade. I finished, completed ninth grade. And I was like, I can't. I was always skipping school, always behind the alley, getting high at school. So I didn't see a point for me to finish school at that time. So you went to East Texas? Yeah, I went to East Texas. And then it started getting worse over there because he started getting abusive. We lived with his family. And I remember that there was times that he would do so much drugs that it would get him crazy. And he would start hitting me and locking me up in closets. Wow. And he was just so, so abusive to me. Were you living with him kind of as in common law marriage kind of thing? Yes, common law marriage. Oh, yeah. Yes, I was with him. I was with him for about four years. And I had two daughters by him.

And he was just, even throughout our whole four years, it was always every day being abused by this man. So you left one bad situation and immediately, really, went into another bad situation. Another trauma. Another trauma. And so it was just all these traumas that were following me. And so after those four years, he got arrested. He had a, I was in East Texas. I didn't have no kind of family over there. And just his family that I grew up with. And that's about 500, 600 miles away from home. Just for those of you that don't know Texas, it's a long way. Yes, a very long way. And so I started, I didn't know anybody. Only his family was like my family. And here I was at the time I was started. I had my first daughter at the age of 18, 19, I believe. Yes, 19. And then my second daughter at 18. So here I was. Wait a minute. You must have said that backwards. You had your first daughter at age 18 and your second daughter at 19. Yes. Yeah. Because I think you just defied the laws. I just reversed it. Yeah. So I had two daughters back to back.

I was listening, by the way. Yes. And it was very hard for me to raise two daughters that little. Sure. And he's gone. And he's gone. He's in prison. He had a shootout with the police. Yeah. And so I know he wasn't going to get out. Okay. So I stayed there for a while and eventually I gave my daughters up. I went crazy in East Texas. I gave my daughters up over there and I started doing more drugs. I started meeting some people, you know, and started shooting up. I was, you know, trauma after trauma. It started leading into more drug use, my escape. So I started shooting up crack cocaine and I started shooting up crank. And I remember that when that needle first hit my vein, it was just like a release. A release of all my worries and just everything and, you know, all my pain and everything that I had to experience throughout my childhood. And then going through this with my, you know, my ex. And so... So it was a temporary release. Yeah. It was just a temporary high. But it was... No matter... You were able to escape. Yes.

And it didn't matter how many units I used to shoot up. And that pain, after it would go away, you know, my high was getting low. That pain would come back and we would just, you know, I would just pop my vein again. Continue to chase that first time. That's terrible. And that's bondage. Yes, it really is. We don't know that it's bondage when we're doing it. We think it's a release from the pain that we went through and we're going through. And that's, you know, at that time, I didn't know that it was just, like you said, a bondage, you know, because I didn't know Christ. You know, I was in prisons of my own making long before I went to prison. And we do that in life. There's so many people that never go to a physical prison. But I was in prison of depression, bipolar illness, suicidal depression. Even I was in a prison of pride and greed. I was in prisons of my own making long before I went to a physical prison. So you're kind of describing a time where you were basically in bondage. You were free, free, but you were really in bondage, shackled. Yes. I was shackled, you know, I was, I was in chains and, um, you know, and time went on and, um, I started meeting people, you know, with atheism and I was like, okay, I like this because they don't believe in, in hell or heaven, you know, because they questioned, you know, atheism, they're always questioning. They don't believe God at all. They don't believe God. So I, you know, I started being an atheist. I was an atheist for over 25 years. Really? Yes.

Wow. I was in full-blown atheist for over 25 years. So you denied that God even existed. I hated God. So you hated God. Did you, so, so how could you hate something that you thought didn't exist? Cause I like, uh, everybody would tell me about God. Like, you know, God just turned to God. If he exists, I hated him. If he existed, I hated him. Because a merciful, a God that they say that loves us, why would he put us through all this pain? Everything that you've been through. Every, every childhood pain. So why would he allow that? Every sexual abuse, everything. Yes. So we know now that God either allows or causes things to happen, but we live in a fallen world and we're subject to other people's really bad decisions, you know? And, uh, so that's a whole nother conversation. We probably don't need to go there, but you, so you lived as an atheist really for 25 years, not only that, but you were mad if there was a God, you were mad at him. Yes. So, so what kind of give us a little bit of a summary of, uh, of what happened? So, um, I became an atheist for 25 years and, um, and I was still doing drugs. I remember that I was at a trailer park in East Texas and, you know, this is one of the, this is one of the times that I, I was, I was overdosed and I'm shooting up and, um, I, usually I had people that would shoot me up, you know, you know, shoot it, shoot it up for me.

And, and I didn't have nobody that time. So I took matters in my own hand and did it. And I, you know, I put more units in there, you know, the drugs inside the, the syringe more than what I should have. And so I, I remember that I was in the bathroom in the trailer park and, um, and, uh, I, I just, I don't know what I came over me that I just did it. And, but I look back at it now and I knew that the enemy was trying to take me out. Yeah. Yeah. Because, uh, you know, it's just so, you know, so much things that were happening and stuff. And did you, did you pass out? I was hearing like, I was like, yeah, I was hearing like a freight train. I, you know, it was echoing, everything was echoing. And I walked to the living room. I barely got out of the bathroom and I was walking to the living room. The living room was dark, the restroom, you know, we had the lights on. And I just remember falling on the couch, like halfway on the couch. And, um, and that's all I remember. I, I, you know, I didn't know if I was alive or I made it, but, but God. Wow. But God, even when the God you didn't believe in, as you look back, you're, you give him credit for what? For keeping you alive? For so many times that, that I should have been dead when I overdosed on purple, when I owed overdose on accident and I look back at it now and, um, you know, a time that I shouldn't have been alive, I look back at it now and it's like, gosh, you know, it's all God. It's all God that had his hand all, all over me all this time. He knew what he had in mind for you, like, like, like now that you're living it out.

And, uh, and we're going to get to that, but, uh, so, uh, but he knew what he had the plan and purpose he had for your life. You didn't know it. You didn't even believe it. Jeremiah 29, 11. I mean, nobody knows it until you're actually going through it. And, um, so, you know, I just thank God for, for getting me out of that. And then at the age of, in my early twenties, I met some people from Mexico and I started, um, you know, I saw that they had money. I saw that they had trucks, but I didn't question it in a way. I was kind of naive to that lifestyle. I knew my drug lifestyle and everything, but they, they were like in a whole different level, like cartels kind of stuff. Yes. And, um, I thought that they had cars, they had money, they had drugs. That's what attracted my attention. Mostly it was like the drug, cause I was a really bad drug addict and, um. And so I started going with them, you know, to the border, to Acuna, you know, and picking up people. We would cross over people, and they would cross drugs over with them. So you're talking about human trafficking? Yeah, human trafficking. We would pick up people from over there and even little girls, little kids, that their family was over here waiting for them, you know, to bring them to their family. And it was, to me, it was all about the money and the drugs, but mostly the drugs because that was my thing is the drugs. That's what kept you going. That's what kept you from living, continuing to live the trauma or continuing to remember that all the trauma you've been through was the drugs.

Yeah. And it was like I couldn't live without my drugs. Every day I had drugs. I have drugs in my system 24-7. So I had to keep on going through drugs. And so eventually I worked with them for like seven years up in East Texas, and we were just going back and forth, back and forth. And so I had three other daughters by one of them that worked for them, and I told them I didn't want to do this no more. I, you know, I want to get out of it. I don't want to stop. You had three daughters, and now you're actually trying to raise those three daughters in the midst of this. In a drug habit. I was still a drug habit in that lifestyle. I was. But they were all young. Yes, they were. My daughters were all babies and, but I told them, you know, I don't want to be in this drug habit because there was always drugs. I was still a drug addict. And I don't even know why I would have kids being a drug addict, but it just, and it just happened, you know, it, but God has a purpose in it for everything. And so I know that. Were your kids okay? Were they, were they healthy or? My daughter, the one that, my oldest one, the one, the one that, you know. Oh, you're going to tell us about her. Yes, about her in a little while. But she was born without nasal passages.

She was born without a heart, with the heart murmur. She had so many drug defects. They had a flyer to Fort Worth. Wow. The Cooke's Children's Hospital in Fort Worth. But she lived. She lived, you know, that, that was the, that was, she was a crack cocaine baby, like they call her, you know, she was. So she comes up in a few minutes. We're going to, but, but so did you, did you try to leave that life? I left that life for a little bit. And they let you go? Yes. Well, he was still involved, but not me. Yeah. So we, we, you know, we lived in the suburbs in a small town and we got herself a home so we could settle down. You became more of a normal. Trying to be a housewife. Trying to be a normal family. Yeah. But I, I never was a housewife and nobody ever taught me, you know, that. So, so time went on and I got my other two daughters back. Oh, wow. The one that I gave up a long time ago, like three, four years prior. Wow. I got them back and, um, and, but I wasn't a good mom to them. I, you know, you can't show love to somebody that they, nobody showed love to you. You know, it's like a cycle. Yes.

You gotta, you know, show them love, but if you didn't grow up in the household of love, you don't know how to do that. You don't know how to do that. And that was me that, that was me a hundred percent. And, um, I was, there was a time I was abusive to my daughters. I would talk ugly to my daughters. I would curse them with my mouth. And I didn't know at the time that I was cursing my daughters, you know, because life and death is in the power of the tongue. That's right. So you bet you didn't know that at the time. So you're still living in atheism. Yeah. How did all that begin to change at some point? After those seven years, I came, you know, my mother did not hear from me cause she was still here in Lubbock. And seven years I went, I went missing from my whole family, you know, I didn't want them to see what I was doing, my lifestyle. I didn't want to see them having my track mark. I had track marks everywhere. Did they even know you were still alive? They didn't know I was alive. So, you know, what I always remember my home address from, from the hood. So I wrote to my mom and told her one day I was okay. And, and, uh, she came looking for me at that address that I, you know, the one I was living in. And, uh, we had a connection again and she, you know, I introduced her to her granddaughters and she didn't know. And, uh, was your mother, a woman of faith? No, no.

Okay. My mother, you know, after a while, her and my dad separated when I was like 13. And so my mother started going out clubbing. Okay. And so she was in the bars drinking and stuff. So, you know, she wasn't a mother of faith, you know, she was, but she comes, you introduce her to her granddaughters, to her grandbabies and what happens next. And then, time went on, I still stayed there. She came back to Lubbock, and all this time I was still an atheist. And then, I guess she'd gotten to realize that she needed a change, because she was getting already older. And so, she started going to church. Oh, she did, okay. Yeah, it was, I never thought I would see my mother in church. You didn't believe in that. I didn't believe in that, no. And you never thought she was here. And I would be mocking her like, okay, Miss Holy Girl, Miss Holy Lady, you know. That's awful. Yeah, it is. Well, I mean, when we look back, I was, yes, I was. We were heathens. We were. We were, I honestly was. And so, it happened that she had a trauma on her neck, and she couldn't drive no more, you know. So, she would call me up.

I moved back over here to Lubbock, and she would call me. She was like, I need you to drive me to church. Oh, wow. And I said, well, I could just go drop you off, but I'm not gonna stay. You know how I feel about it. And she was like, okay. And so, it started, you know, that's how it started. But then, I came to Lubbock, and I started going back to my old drug habits. I wasn't shooting up, but I started doing cocaine. I started doing ice. I started doing all sorts of meth. And you still got five daughters. And I still have five daughters. I was a bad mom doing meth. And, you know, I'm just gonna be so transparent and real, because, you know, there are women out there that do that, you know, that are meth addicts and raising kids. And I was one of them. I was, you know, I never healed from my trauma, so I was just dragging this ball of chain with me. Like a, yes. Yeah, a ball of chain with me throughout my whole life. Yes, and, you know, through one trauma, from another, from another. And so, it was just adding it. You know, a ball of chain, you add another ball of chain. Another trauma, you add another ball to that chain.

So, I had a lot of trauma that I was carrying. And I never healed from it, so I did what I always do, go back to my drugs. You defaulted back to the old habits. It wasn't shooting up, but I was still smoking meth. I was, you know, shooting, not shooting up, but snorting up crystal. I would do speed balls. But you were taking your mom to church. My mother to church, dropping her off at church. You dropped her off. Yes, I would not go into church. How did all that change? How did you finally learn? Well, time went on, and, you know, my sister started going, and my kids started going to little vacation Bible studies. What kind of church was it? It was a Baptist church, my, you know, they started off at a Baptist church. I was raised in the Baptist church. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Baptist. I go to a Baptist church. And so, you know, they started, it was like, one day, Mom, you're gonna come into church. They were speaking that over my life. Amen, I'm sure they were praying for you, too. Yes, they were speaking that over my life. So some of your daughters started going? Yes.

To like vacation Bible school? Yes, all of my daughters were. Some of your other relatives, some of your brothers or sisters? No, none of them were. None of them? None of them, only like my daughters would be going to vacation Bible school. We lived in a small town. Yeah. And they would walk to vacation Bible school, you know, to the little ABCs. Back then, things were a lot safer than they are now. Yeah, it was way safer, and so. Even in the hood? Even in the hood. No, I took my daughters out of the hood. I didn't want them to live in the area that I grew up in. In that same life. Yes. Yeah, that's good. But, you know, it's, you know, my daughters started growing up. They started, you know, giving their, you know, started taking their own life. They saw me all my life doing drugs. They saw, you know, I was going out to the clubs. They saw that I was bringing home men. Did they start copying you?

Yeah, they did. You know, instead of showing them better, they started, you know, doing the drugs, most of the drugs, and going out. And so, I remember one time I had, I got home from a club, it was a Saturday night, and I had drugs in my pocket, me and my sister, and my mom was like, I need a ride from church. You know, we barely got home from the club, and we still, you know, after parties, and me and my sister were like, man, you take her, and we were like, no, but then, but God had a plan for me then. What happened? I went into a church with an eight ball, with an eight ball of cocaine. You actually went into the church? I went into the church, because it was so hot, I wasn't going to wait for her out there, and I was just like hungover, sitting in the car, drinking a beer. So when they say, I'm going to slam this Budweiser. So when they say, come as you are, you really do. I sure went, I sure went. Just as I am, without one plea. I was hungover, and I took a, I had my Budweiser in the car, I took it.

But God knew what he was doing. Yeah, he did. Even though I had drugs in my pocket, I had an 8-ball going to the restroom, snorting it, God knew He loved me then. He just wanted you to love Him. He wanted you to know Him and to love Him. Yes, that's it. That's all He wanted. And He was trying to get my attention. And so slowly that my heart started tugging. I felt something in my heart tugging. I was going to church, mocking it, laughing at the Christian people, like, oh, look, she's going to faint, or look how they're having their hands. We were in there laughing, literally, at Christian people for worshiping the Lord. Because I didn't know. All my life, I didn't grow up in church, and I was an atheist. What changed? How did the Lord finally get your heart? Well, my mom, my daughters were praying, and my daughter, she was about 11, 12, one of my youngest ones. She was saying, you know what, Mom, I'm still praying for you, and I know that one day God's going to take you to church. And I would be like, what the heck is wrong with you? And I would be going off. And, you know, she was speaking life over me. Yes, I knew. That makes me tear up there. Right. You know, so time went on, and I eventually gave my life to the Lord. I gave my life to the Lord 10 years ago. Wow. You know, I never, you know, everybody relapsed, everybody goes cold turkey. I remember one night when I did give my life to the Lord, I was in my bedroom. I always had my bedroom dark, nobody went in there. They thought that room was scary. And I was there, and I was drunk, and I was hungover, and I just had drugs in my system. And I just fell on the floor, and I just started crying. And I said, God, I said, if this is you, they say that you are a God that loves, and that you want to help people, help me, take me out of my drug habit. Wow. And I remember just bawling, and bawling, and bawling, and bawling. He was cleaning me. Yes. My tears were cleaning me. Wow. You know, out of that ugliness, that shameful that I had. So you finally came to surrender. Yes. And submit to the one you didn't even used to believe in.

Nope. The man that I hated is the man that died for me. Amen. Wow. It's kind of like God, if you're real, I need you to do this. I need you to change me right now, God, because I was so desperate. My daughters were starting to live the life that I was living. And 10 years ago, I gave my life to the Lord, and I didn't have no relapse. I didn't go no cold turkey. In other words, you did go cold turkey. In other words, I didn't ever go back to it. That's deliverance. That is freedom. Full deliverance he gave me. Wow. I didn't have the urge the next day. Wow. I didn't go back to my drugs. And I was struggling. I was like, I know, God, that you have a better plan for me. Amen. I mean, you took this drug away from me. Amen. I didn't feel like I needed to go, this urge to go do drugs. Amen. Like I used to, and so I didn't. And ever since then, 10 years ago, I've been on fire for the Lord. You know that's a miracle. It sure is. You've been on fire for the Lord since then. Yes. Wow. And since then. And now, for those of you that maybe you've already seen Armando Garcia on this podcast, this is his wife. This is Christine Garza. You're his better half, I might say. His rib. His rib, that's right. But if you haven't seen Armando Garcia on this podcast, go back and find that episode. I'm not sure in what order these will be released, but I wanted them to know. So when did you meet Armando? Was it after you got saved? Way after I got saved. Way after. Yes. I never dated a Christian man. I never knew a Christian man, only worldly men. Yes. And so it was, we met through a mutual friend of ours, and we met in church. Oh, wow. I invited him to my church. Amen. And August the 10th will be six years.

I invited him to my church. And you know when God tells you that's the one? Yeah. God, I was kind of wrestling with God on this one. God told him I was the one. I was like, God, are you sure? I was like, God, please. Really? Yeah, but we connected, and ever since then, we've been together on fire for the Lord. We're ministering everywhere. And recently, the two of you were licensed by Don Castleberry, our founder of Freedom in Jesus Prison Ministry. So now, y'all are actually ministers, licensed ministers, and y'all help us in the Crusades. We do Crusades and revivals on weekends in Texas prisons. And even in the last year or so, we started doing Spanish Crusades, not bilingual, but all in Spanish, and muy poquito Espanol here, amen? So you've been helping you and Armando and Maggie and others actually go and do those Spanish Crusades. So you really got turned on to the Lord after He set you free. Yes. You know, it's easy to serve Satan, but it's hard to serve the Lord. And I learned that through my trials and tribulations. The enemy has been, you know, four years ago, I lost my daughter to a shooter, the one that I was talking about. The one we mentioned. Now, was she your oldest? No, she was the middle child. Middle child. Everybody called her my golden child. So after you, now, some people think, well, if I give my heart to Jesus, everything's going to be roses, everything's going to be easy. It's not that. It's not that easy. No.

But now, when you go through trauma, you have someone to go through with, and that's Jesus. And He said, I'll never leave you. I'll never forsake you. And He did that to me. You know, in February, in February 2021, my daughter was here in Lubbock. My daughter was giving her friend a ride and her friend, the brother, came out with a rifle trying to shoot his own brother. And it's what drugs do, you know, you don't realize how bad drugs are until you're experiencing it from a sober side. And so, you know, my daughter was pulling out of the driveway or, you know, going off and this man came out to shoot his own brother and he missed his brother and shot my daughter in the car. Oh, my goodness. The bullet split in her back and it split two. So it was like two bullets and an impact. So she died. She died, you know, on her way to the hospital at 2.46 in the morning. My goodness. The deputy Lubbock deputy came and told me that your daughter is deceased. Wow. What a shock. What an awful thing for a mom to hear. And you were serving the Lord. Yes. So, you know, we're not exempt from other people's bad choices. That was a bad choice he made and it impacted innocent people. Yes. How did you adjust to that? Let me ask you this. Had your daughter given her heart to Jesus?

She knew Jesus. She was saved. And, you know, she was she she was so trusting of everybody. And I would tell her, you cannot trust nobody. I said, you know, the friends you think you have, you know, they're no such thing as friends. You know, I grew up in the hood. I know all these people. And she was like, oh, mom, it's going to be fine. And I would always give her advice. And, you know, you know, young kids. Yeah. And so she, you know, she she got killed. Yeah. And how did you. I can't even imagine the heartache you had, but how did you deal with that with God? So, you know, I felt anger. Sure. Not at God. I felt anger at the people that were involved. And what did you do? I wanted to go retaliate. The old, the old Christine came out. And what happened? You know, her her uncles are that her uncles are involved with the cartels and no people. And, you know, they had already heard this the story in New Mexico. They went all the way to New Mexico to their ears. And I had cousins and we were going to go retaliate. And they had already given me the address of their family. I already had in contact. I mean, not that same week.

I already we're going to go do a drive by at their at their family's house. Well, you know, I wanted him to feel the pain that I was feeling. Yeah. And so I remember that I was walking on my porch and my cousin had my family had rifles in the in the SUV. We're going to go do a drive by. And. I get teary up on this and I was walking off the porch. And I felt the hand of the Lord, just this soft hand right here that stopped me. It says, you're not that person anymore. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. And I told God, okay. So you stopped? I stopped and I went to my cousin. You know, he was out of the car waiting for me. And I said, you know what, cousin? I said, I can't do this. I said, as much as I want to do it, my flesh wants to do it, but I can't. You know, I'm a new creation. And so my husband, you know, he's never seen that side of me. My whole self came out. And, you know, I was so hurt, so deeply hurt, you know, the pain of losing a child. It's like no other. So, you know, time went on. It took me two years to forgive this guy. Wow. And I remember one day in my prayer closet, and I was just praying and praying and praying. And I knew what the Lord wanted me to do. You had been resisting the Lord. He had been telling you to forgive.

You knew better than to hold unforgiveness. So what happened in your prayer call? So this is two years later. Yes, two years later after my daughter passed away. So about two years ago from now. Yes, two years ago from now. And I was in my prayer closet. I knew what the Holy Spirit wanted me to do. But I was still holding on to that bitterness, that unforgiveness. Yeah. And then I was in prayer. I said, God, you ask me anything, but don't ask me to forgive this man that took my daughter's life. And that's so real. Yeah. And I heard God's voice tell me, that man is my son too. Wow. Yeah. You know, and that hit me in deep. It hit me hard when he said that. Sure. And I said, okay, God, I said, I'm going to forgive this man. You know, this is a dirty handkerchief, but you can use it if you want. I'm fine. So I forgave this man. And I know that, you know, you can't say that you love God. And have unforgiveness in your heart. Yeah. The Bible says that right there. That's in the Bible. You can't, I mean, because when you forgive somebody, you have to show them the love of Christ.

Yes. And I did, and I forgive him. And I know that one day God's going to put him in my path when we do prison ministry. Yeah. And I'm going to hug him, and I'm going to tell him that I forgive him. Yeah. You know, as much, and I know that it didn't affect only us. It affected his family. So was he sentenced to a long prison sentence? They gave him 30 years. Yeah. And they gave him 30 years last year. He went barely to court last year. And they gave him 30 years. And, you know, I pray for him. You know, it's so hard to do, but that's what God says we must do. Now, when you did that, did you feel released? Did you feel a burden come off? How did you, what happened to you when you gave that up and gave that over to God and trusted God, said, God, now I forgive him, you know. It's like, you know, something came off of me. Yeah. You know, whenever you forgive that person, whoever hurt you. And, you know, I know that unforgiveness, it goes deep. Yes. It's like a thorn in your flesh. Yes. And that unforgiveness, I had it. And, you know, I was over here worshiping the Lord and honoring him, but I could not forgive this man.

But deep in your heart, you knew that, yeah. And I had unforgiveness in him. But when the Lord told me he is my son too, that just hit me hard. It hit me really, really hard. So true. Because, you know, Jesus died for him, just like he died for me. Amen. So when I said, OK, God, I forgive him. And I did. You know, my daughters, my family don't forgive him. My daughters, my other daughters don't know Christ, don't know the love of Christ yet. But by your example, here's what I believe, by your example, by you continuing to live this out because you have forgiven him, I think that gives God the opportunity to work in your daughter's life or the rest of your family. That'll, you know, I'm looking forward to good praise reports about, well, you know what, that has happened or they did forgive, you know, because of your example, we, God can use our example. Once we give that up and let it go, then God can begin to work in other people's lives because of. what he's done in our life. Yes, and we have to be the example. Yes. I mean, we can say it, but you know, you gotta live by it. You gotta walk your talk. Yes, you gotta walk your talk. And in my case, I like to keep it so real and so transparent, and because I know that out there, that there's men and women that are locked up and still have unforgiveness and serve the Lord.

And you can't, if I have to forgive the man that took my daughter's life, y'all have to forgive that person that did anything to y'all. That's right. And it's hard. It's a choice. It's a choice. You never feel like forgiving. No, we don't. I've got a lot of teaching, and in my books, including this one, Jailhouse Religion, in a lot of my books, I have chapters on forgiveness, because it's so critical. Forgiveness is not a feeling, it's a decision, it's a choice, right? You're never gonna feel like forgiving the people that have hurt you the most, but you can choose to forgive. And also, what I've learned, and I share with others, is forgiving does not make it right, what they did. You're not saying it's okay. It's just like, I forgive you in spite of that. And also, forgiveness doesn't mean you're gonna forget about it, either. People say, well, I'll never forget that. That's true, you'll never forget it, but you can forgive it. And I heard another minister, she's in heaven now, Pastor Jody Wilson, she taught on, she had an amazing story about forgiveness,

a little bit similar to what you're saying, where she had to choose to forgive, and she said this, she said, That's right. But forgiveness is forgetting on with your life. Yes. See how that works? Yes, and when we have to. Forgiveness is not forgetting. You're never gonna forget the worst things that happened to you, but you've got to forgive in order to get past that, and begin to get healed of the hurts that it caused. The enemy will bring it up, he'll try to press those old buttons, but if you have forgiven someone, and the enemy comes and reminds you about it, that's your chance to take the thought captive, say, Lord, I thank you that you did allow me to forgive that person, and Lord, wherever they are, just bless them, I pray that they're serving you. I mean, you can take those thoughts captive, the enemy will bring it up, because you will not forget it, but you can choose to forgive, so don't get me preaching, right? Yeah. But, so now, you were able to do that, and that's just a couple of years ago. What's your life been like in the last two years

since you felt this new, even an extra level of freedom? Well, you know, like I said, that the enemy's always out to kill, steal, and destroy, and after my daughter passed away two months later, my daughter got sent to prison. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, they gave her a five-year sentence, and yeah, she was at the women unit, so the, you know, she's out now, and- That's one of the units we actually went to recently. Yeah, and I got to see firsthand where she was at. Where she was at. She would tell me about it, and you don't know until- Because you can't go in there if she's still in there, but she's out, and so you got to go. She's out, and then a couple- Now, you never went to prison. No, you know, God knew I wasn't making it prison, because I would have gone crazy. You should have gone to prison a whole bunch of times. Yeah, I should have been in prison. You just didn't get caught. I got incarcerated a few times. You didn't get caught. So you were locked up in county or something? Yeah, county, you know, nothing big, but I did have a daughter that went to prison, and I had a daughter that got murdered, and then a year and a half later, my only baby sister got diagnosed with cervical cancer.

My dad got diagnosed with lung cancer at the same time, so it was just like- Bam, bam, bam, huh? The enemy's just trying to throw punches at me, and I lost my daughter, and then I lost my baby sister, my only baby sister, and then I lost my dad, and I lost my dad and my sister in five months. Did you and your dad ever reconcile? Yes, we led them to the Lord, him and my sister. Really? Praise the Lord. I just thank God that I was there at the end of their life, too. We can lead them to the Lord, and that's important. So you'll be with them in heaven? Yes, one day. Amen, amen. I know that the angels are rejoicing, you know, and five months, I lost them both. I was at funeral after funeral, but I didn't give up. You didn't give up? I didn't give up, I kept going. Yeah, and how long have you been married? You've been coming in with Freedom in Jesus over a year now? Almost two years. Almost two years? Wow. Yeah. We've been with y'all for almost two years. I have to say you're a real joy to have around, and you're always joyful, you're singing and praising the Lord. There's joy in the Lord every day.

And the joy of the Lord is your strength, right? And He takes everything and makes it new. And He did that with me, and He can do that for anybody that's watching. I mean, it don't matter your past, it don't matter. I know you and Armando are deeply in love. You can just see it when you're around each other. When God put us together, He knew what He was doing. He's older than me, but we balance each other out. And the love that He has for the Lord, and I know that y'all see it. And it just gives me joy to see him love the Lord so much. I always tell him, you better love Jesus more than you love me. That's right. I don't want you to love me more than Him, because I would take myself out. I can't. And many, many people and many women think that, okay, I've been a drug addict all my life, and all these men I've been through with whatever, and God don't have one for me. Yeah, He does. And the same thing with men. I mean, God has the right one for you at His time. You'll be patient. Yeah. You're seeking. It took me 40-something years. Sweet Lord. Well, if you're trying to do the right thing and trusting Him, well, as we get ready to wrap this up, whatever you'd like to say to the folks that are watching, anything maybe that you think is important that you wanted to get across, a word of hope or a word of encouragement to those that are still incarcerated. Your daughter was incarcerated, as you just said.

You went to county a couple of times, so you know what it's like, or some of it. You know some of it anyway. So what would you say to kind of wrap this up, and then in a minute, I'll ask you to pray this out. But what would you say? I would definitely say to forgive. It don't matter who did anything to you. You got to forgive. If you want to walk with the Lord, you got to forgive because God is love. And He forgives. He forgave us when we hated Him. That's right. When we were, you know, we despised the Lord. We were out in our ways drinking and partying and doing drugs. God still loved us when we were like that. That's right. I mean, and I know it's hard to serve Christ, but it's so worth it. And always, always, always pray for your family. Yes. You know, always speak life over your kids that are out there. Pray, you know, life that, you know, you're going to get out. Don't not say, I will never get out or I will never, because that's just seed that you're throwing for the enemy for him to plant in your head. If you're going to plant positive seed, right? Yeah, you got to speak life. You know, one day I'm going to get out. I'm going to get out. And God's timing. God always has a plan for everybody, no matter how bad it looks like now. God is always there and He's close to the broken hearted.

Yes. So whenever you're crying and you're at your weakest, seek Him. I did that when my daughter passed away. Wow. I went into the dwelling place, the secret place with Him and He comforted me. And the same God that comfort me is going to comfort you in all that y'all are going through. We know that y'all miss y'all's family, y'all love y'all's kids and everything, but God's going to replace and restore all that 100%. He did it for me. He can do it for all of y'all, all my brothers and sisters in Christ. Yes. You know, the word says, and I think it's 2 Corinthians 1 verses 3 and 4, it says something like, may the God of all comfort, comfort you in your trouble so that you will be able to comfort others in their trouble. That's right. And that's what you're doing. Yeah. Whew, you're going to make me cry already. Me too. Yes. Well, we love y'all and we're praying for y'all and just keep on fighting the good fight until God calls us home. Yeah. That's it. Do you want to pray? Yes. Okay, let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you, Father God, for every ear, Father God, that was listening, Father God, through my testimony, Father God, that it may reach them, Father God, right

now where they're at, Lord Jesus. We pray for my brothers and sisters, Father God, that are white, Father God, that are confused, Father God, that everything that the enemy is telling them, Father God, for you to block those things and thoughts, Father God, that the enemy is putting in their head, Father God. We pray for their families, Father God, that are out there, Father God. We pray for the children, Father God. We pray, Father God, for healing and restoration, Father God, right now, Father God. Father God, we love you, Father God, and we honor you, Lord, and we give you all the glory, Father God. In Jesus Christ's name we pray, amen. Amen, amen. We love y'all guys. Amen. You got me crying, Christine. I've been crying. Well, listen, I want to thank you for tuning in. In Texas, the prisoners wear white, whether you're wearing white or blue or orange, whatever the case may be, wherever you are, I just hope that you'll really pray about what you've heard today, especially about forgiveness, because it's so crucial. And there's a whole other level, even though you may have already given your heart to Jesus, there's a whole other level of freedom when you finally decide to be obedient about forgiving the people who have hurt you. And also, as part of that is we need to, where we can, we need to ask forgiveness of those we've hurt. We didn't even get into any of that. But thanks for tuning in today, and Christine, you did just such a great job. I'm just so proud of you, except you made me cry. I know. I know none of you are crying out there, but God bless you.

Thanks for tuning in. God bless. ♪♪♪