How to Gain Influence with Travis Waltner

Hey crew, it's Adam. I'm a husband, a father, a pastor, a follower of Jesus who just like you is trying to learn what it looks like to fully live and follow Jesus in the middle of real life. It is one thing to be someone on Sundays, but what about Monday through Saturday? And so here, we're gonna talk about faith and making a difference in the messy, ordinary moments where it's often the hardest to live out. Some weeks, I'll share what God is teaching me. Other weeks, I'll sit down with leaders, pastors, athletes, friends. There's no fluff, just encouragement and truth for your life between Sundays. I'm so glad you're here. Well, hello crew, it is Adam and Emily and you are joining us for episode 333 of Life Between Sundays. I'm shocked every time I hear the number, how many years? Three, three, three. That's wild. The other day, I saw 222 on 2226, but still, I saw it, I was like, whoa, that's kind of crazy actually. I didn't even try, I just randomly saw it, I'm like, that's a lot of twos. God, what does that mean?

I think they're like angel numbers or something. How about this? It's sending some sort of message. God's trying to tell us something. Before we get into today's episode, quick announcement. If you do not know, we are also on YouTube. We record this every week and put it up on YouTube. Some people don't even know that when they come to record. They need to go to YouTube. The podcast, like people will come and be like, I did not know this was on camera. As a 43-year-old, I often forget about YouTube, but that's where the cool kids are at. Everyone is watching stuff on YouTube. I'm not cool and I'm not a kid. YouTube is a big thing right now, so if you watch us on YouTube, please subscribe, leave a comment. It's so helpful in just getting the podcast out to more people and people seeing it. And yeah, it's just super helpful and we appreciate it. That's good. Hi, Low Buffalo, bring it on. Hi, Low Buffalo. So I got a hi and I have a buffalo. My hi, this coming Sunday, Xavier Scott from the Minnesota Vikings and his wife, McKenna, are gonna be with us at Embrace for Super Bowl,

I struggle to say bowl, Super Bowl Sunday. So really excited about that. How do you know Xavier? I got to know him two years ago when I did the chapel for the Vikings and he and I just hit it off right away. Just super kind person. And crossed paths again at chapel this year. He watches fairly regularly. Oh, really? So it's pretty fun that way too. So Super Bowl Sunday is my hi. My buffalo is a book. I was recommended this book by Kerry Newhoff. He said it's his all time favorite book. Henry Nowen is one of my favorite authors. Long time, late Catholic priest, Henry Nowen. The Guinnessy Diary. What? Let me see. If you are a driven entrepreneur, like go-getter, Enneagram three, this will make you feel deeply seen. Can you tell me what Guinnessy means? Is that like a common word that? So I think that is the name of the, that's a great question. I believe it's the name of the monastery that he went to. So he took a seven month sabbatical and went to this monastery.

He was like in the peak of his career. He was really a well known professor and speaker and pastor and priest. And so he, in the middle of that, took the seven month sabbatical and kind of went a little crazy a little bit. Not like, like it just drove him nutty. Yeah. Just as far. Like not working? Not working. He was really restless, struggled with anger and like, and I just really relate to that. So if you, I posted this on Instagram. I, no joke, I think I've had 20 some friends tell me that they just ordered a copy from CNN. Really? I'm not the only driven. Okay, we'll link it. So that is my Buffalo. Genesee diary. Go get that. Go get that. I linked it in, if you're not on my email list, go to adamweber.com. You can, there'll be a pop-up that comes up. I recommend this on the email list this week too. So there you go. Perfect. We'll get that added.

There it is. Thanks for that. Oh yeah. This week we got Travis Waltner on the podcast. Travis Waltner, he did a staff talk on influence and how to gain and grow influence. This is one of those talks that's not just for pastors and staff people at a church. This is a talk for anybody who wants to grow their influence which impacts every area of life. So whether it's with family, whether it's at your company, your business, your ministry, your organization, your nonprofit, this is a gold conversation. Like I just found it really, really helpful. He put into words so many things that I feel as a leader or this feels weird to say boss. He said, he just put into words so many things where I'm like, yes, those are the things that gain influence. Yeah. So Travis is on staff at Embrace. good listeners trust what Travis is saying. Travis, he has the gift of wisdom. Honestly, I've told him that many, many times. He was my first full-time hire here at Embrace. We were both super young at the time. How old were you then? How old are both of you? We would have probably been- Because it's like the same age-ish.

Yeah, I'm gonna guess like 27. That's crazy. 28. That's insane. That is actually pretty wild. So he's been on staff forever, and he just has wisdom. He has the gift of wisdom, being able to see things, being able to speak into situations, be able to put words to what is reality in a really powerful way. So that's why you should listen. You're gonna love this conversation. Share it with your friends. Listen in. Enjoy. So today I am sitting with one of my closest friends who's also our executive pastor here at Embrace. Travis, you gave a staff talk a month or so ago, and I just thought it was phenomenal. So much so that I wanted to bring you on the podcast and really walk through it. Your talk was on how to increase influence. And it's one of those talks where it can apply to so many different areas of your life. And if you apply it to your life, I think you will find success, whatever that means. Success might be reaching people for Christ, growing your business, getting a promotion, helping more people. It's one of those things where if you apply it,

I really believe you'll have success in all areas. Really quick, before we even get started, where did this talk come from in you? Why, like what was the, where did it come from? Well first, thanks for inviting me on, Adam. I appreciate being on your podcast. I think I was on about three years ago, and so it's nice that I get a good idea every three years or so. I'm not every three years. It's perfect. Excited. It kind of came from, you know, I've been on staff I think now 14 years, 15 years now. And just now at the church, we have some more younger people on staff, and I was just thinking through, like a lot of them asking, like how do I grow in leadership? How do I take the next step? How do I get that new title? How do I do X, Y, and Z? People are asking you that. Yeah, yeah, just hearing, asking me, but also just hearing those thoughts. And I was just sitting like, how do you do that? How do you get that? And so then, obviously the leadership is a big buzzword, but there's something inside of leadership that I think is really important.

So I just had this idea of influence. It's like when you have influence with the people around you, the people that you maybe report to, or the people that you serve underneath you, that really grows your ability to take those next steps. And so that's kind of how it all started. And also I think just seeing at times in my own life, but also in maybe some other employees, like, oh, if you would just do this, that would increase your influence so much, not just with me, but just with all the people around you. And I was just trying to pick out what some of those things are, and really they're simple things. Yeah, that's so good. Do you think there's, cause I think, have you seen people want influence and try to get it in the wrong way? Like what I'm thinking is like, what, you know, kind of like, when am I going to get that promotion? Like kind of telling their report, when am I going to get that promotion? Have you seen it done in a negative way? Yeah, I mean, maybe not as much directly to me, but I think, and this is a little bit my own experience, and Adams, you've been my boss for 14 years. I've never asked for a raise or a promotion or any of those sorts of things, have I?

I don't think that I ever have. It's just, but it's always just happened. And I know that isn't how always things happen, but I do believe when you do it well and you don't demand like, I need this title, I need this pay raise, I need X, Y, and Z. When you do it well, it can happen more naturally. Now, does it mean you can't ask for a pay raise? You can't, no, yes, you can, obviously. There's a good and healthy way to ask for those things, but no one deserves anything. Which is good. Nobody deserves anything. You really have to earn that influence. And then when someone comes to you and like, hey, I feel like I've been doing a lot. You're like, yeah, you have been doing a lot. I see that a million times over. How do we continue helping you climb that ladder and bless you? That's so good. Okay, so you had six different ways to increase your influence. If you just want to kind of walk through each of the six, just to lay some groundwork for us. Yeah, can I say one thing just before we get into that? One thing I think when it comes to influence, and this is a bit to your question, is learning how to take responsibility yourself and not blame others.

And I've gotten to that habit myself. Like you don't, your ideas aren't heard, or this X, Y, and Z, you didn't get this position that you wanted. It's so easy to blame, blame, blame. And I know there can be circumstances that affect that, but it is so much better just to take that responsibility on yourself. say, what can I do? What can I control? What are the things that I can control to gain influence? And I really believe 95% of the time, if we do some of these six things, and when we take responsibility and we say it's, it is my job to build my influence, for one, you're just happier, because you've put the power back in your court that I actually have the power. I can actually do some things myself, but also it just, yeah, it's the only way that it actually works. That's so good, I'll say too, like you mentioned, sometimes it's just the smallest little thing, where it's like, oh, if you just did this one thing, this is what's holding you back, it can unlock so much, and then the person who maybe does have the blaming attitude or kind of the entitlement, like I deserve this promotion, I deserve this raise,

what I've kind of found, not just in my own experience, you might get that, but if you would have done these other six things, you would have gotten this, you might have gotten that by kind of like complaining or nagging or whatever, you might actually get that, but if you did those six things and lived them out, you would actually get this, like that's what I'm, because like you, you've never once asked for anything, and that just like, as like, again, this feels weird because we're friends, but someone who reports to me, I want to bless you so much position wise, even like raise wise, it's like, he never asked for anything, he just does these six things so well, so that's really great. The six things, yeah, kind of walk through them and just give us a little bit of each. The first one is speak up. You know, if in your work environment, you never speak up, you never share your thoughts and opinions, it's almost impossible to gain influence. Do you have an example of that or anything more there? Well, so one thing is like speaking up does not mean being loud,

you know, like plenty of people are loud and that can, you can lose influence by just being loud. It just means when you're in a meeting, when you're in a conversation, when you're in a brainstorming, if you are in that circle, you're in there for a reason. So you have to speak up, you know, and I know it can be so difficult, especially for younger employees, if you're in a circle with a bunch of old employees that have been around a little bit longer, or they have a little bit more experience, it can be hard to speak up and you can be a bit self-conscious because what if I say something dumb, but really when you speak into those things in a humble sort of way, you start to gain influence. I had something recently to break on my assistant, Emily. We were planning an event together, her and I, and I went to this planning thing. We met with like an outside place that we're holding the event at. And 10 minutes in, I was like, I don't think I need to be here. I think Emily could have just handled this. And then for me, the moment that sealed the deal, the event person tried to convince her

to do this certain detail. And I just kind of watched her. I thought Emily might cave to it because this gal was doing a really good job, kind of like, oh, I think this is really, really good. And Emily stuck to her guns. She spoke up and she's like, no, I actually think I prefer it this way. I told her the next day, I said, hey, I don't need to go to that meeting with you ever again. That I was feeling that I didn't need to be there. But when I saw you speak up in that moment, I was like, it was done. Like it just street cred throughout the wazoo for me. Yeah, yeah. And you know, it might not be the first time. It might be the second time. And you gotta be careful. You can't get offended because you're gonna speak up and you're gonna have a dumb idea. Like, I get told no. I mean, most of my ideas are dumb. Like every once in a while I hit a good one, you know, or you're gonna be, yeah, you're gonna get told no. And that's okay. Like that's part of being a part of a team. And the teams, nobody's ideas ever just win right out. It's always a combination. But you know, you speak up, you speak up,

you speak up humbly and just trying to be a part of the team. Before long, you're just gonna get credit. You're gonna get street cred with the team and you're gonna start to gain influence. But if you don't say anything, like if you're just quiet, and I know like some of this is a personality thing. Like, you know, I am a little bit more talkative. You're way more talkative, you know. So it's a little bit of a personality thing. And so sometimes you have to prep. Hey, I'm going to a brainstorming meeting. I got five ideas. I'm gonna make sure to share at least three of these. Or I'm gonna try to interject on these. You might have to prep if it's not your personality just to come up with ideas on the spot. I know Tyson, one of our worship leaders, I remember he would be in meetings and wouldn't say things a lot. I'm like, dude, we really need to hear from you. He's like, I just don't have any ideas when I come to those meetings. I'm like, well, prep for it then. And I remember this was years and years ago. And so he does that a lot more before a meeting. He'll prep before he goes into it. So he has ideas when he shows up. That's so good.

One thing I want to acknowledge, these six things are really connected. So if you just speak up and you don't do the others, not good. Like, it's like, oh, okay, you're the person who brings up ideas. We know you're never gonna do any of them. We know that you don't put in the extra work and you're not gonna crush it. So then it, again, it will work against you. Now it's like, oh my gosh, they always speak up, but they never, so they're really interconnected. Yeah, and with that, I already said this a couple times, but speaking up in humility, you know, if you, and I don't, I sound like the old man curmudgeon right now, but if I get in a room with a young guy and they just like talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and don't listen to the room and don't read the room, you can lose influence that way too, you know? So you wanna really, you wanna speak up. Go to this next one. Okay, next one is be seen. If you are never around, never seen, if you are in proximity to your team and leadership, if you're not in proximity to your team and leadership, it'll be difficult to have influence. Yeah, explain that. The kind of the image I use of this is my kids when they play basketball, none of them are starters yet, the older two.

And so they're always on the bench. And so I always tell them, you know, they'll go sit on the bench and they'll go sit at the end of the bench. And I'm like, if you played basketball, you know, you never sit at the end of the bench because you're not seen by the coach. Someone does something stupid in the game, the coach looks down, he looks right next to him. You always, man, I remember the bench, we were always fighting for that spot right next to the coach. So when someone did something dumb, they looked to us and we got back in the game. And that sounds dumb, but it's just how life works. Like, if you're not seen, you're not seen. There was this really cool article, it was out of the Business Insider and it was this gal who wrote this. And she talked about how she kept on getting passed up for promotions at her work and she didn't know why. And so what she did is she moved her desk. She got her desk move closer to where her boss was and she got the next promotion. And she said, it wasn't the quality of my work, it was just the reality that I was in a spot that I was not being seen. And so, once again, you might say, well, it's your boss's job to see. Well, your boss has got a million things going on.

Yeah, it's not theirs. A ton of things going on. And so you just have to ask yourself, well, how do I get myself to be more visible? What could I do to be seen more? And that will help grow your influence. Oh, it could be the simplest things. I thought of like if there's a team workout at your staff and you know your person that you wanna, you're at that team workout. Like literally, like physical workout. If there's a project and you know, and it's kind of an optional thing, but you know the person's gonna be there. I mean, like you show up and you help out. I think oftentimes we're like, again, it's a little bit of that responsibility versus blame. Well, they need to see me, they need to see me. No, what do I need to do? John Maxwell, this is one of my favorite John Maxwell things. He talks about getting out of the people pile. He said, if you wanna be seen, you gotta get out of the people pile. You need to do everything possible because the people pile, it just gets all messed up and you can't see. But so you need to get out of the people pile. It's one of my favorite John Maxwell talks.

But we think it's like more complicated. And it's like, just like you said, it's like sit right next to the coach because he's not that smart. She's not that smart. Like whoever it is, is not that smart. And they're just frustrated. And it's like, get out there, you know? And so sometimes it's the simplest things. Yeah, and so being seen, I think what I've seen this most sometimes is like, hey, don't schedule your medical appointment during a staff meeting. You got a staff meeting where you're gonna be around all the people, that's a time for you to be seen, to be present. Yeah, that's good. Don't schedule, hey, you got this meeting that's super important, like make sure you're at it. Like we have, you know, at Embrace, we are flexible for stuff like that, you know? But it's like, hey, these important situations, like you wanna be seen at them. You wanna be there. You wanna provide some value because that's how you just gain influence that way. That's so good, next one. The next one is make the most of the moments. Sometimes an opportunity will come up that you can't miss. And if you do, you'll miss the ability

to greatly grow your influence. And so there just is these times where there is these moments where you're like, I need to show up at that moment. I need to knock it out of the park. I need to give my 100% of this moment because I know that this moment might not come along. I shared a bit of an example, I'll say this real quickly, but when I was in ministry and then I got out of ministry for a while, I needed a break and then I wanted to get back into ministry at the church and I'd been coming to Embrace. This was, I don't know, 16 years ago now, 15 years ago? Yeah, a long time ago, a long time ago. And I can't even remember how it came up, but we started, we were gonna do this marriage conference. And I can't remember if you said it or I said it, but somehow I got asked to host this marriage conference. And I knew in my head I needed to knock this out of the park. Because if I knocked it out of the park, Embrace was growing, I might have an opportunity to get on staff at this church. And we were very young as a church, like 200 people, I think, 300 people. And it really was, I remember at midway through the... way through the conference, you came up to me and said, how do we get you on staff here? Now, you say that to a lot of people.

I didn't know that at the time, but you sure made me feel special in that moment. But that was just a moment, I really do believe, and it'd be interesting to hear your feedback, but it was like a moment that I couldn't miss that moment. 100%, 100%. I think about, for me, I'll never forget the first time I got an opportunity to submit a book proposal for a publisher, I went above and beyond. I used a graphic designer to design my book proposal. I sent with it a gift to the publisher. My agent said, Adam, you don't need to do this, that's not the norm. I was later told that it's the reason that three publishers looked at my proposal, because it was beautiful. All the other authors, they're good writers, but they weren't whatever, more design and whatever, just thinking about getting that foot in the door. And I love that example of, but I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting paid for this. All the more reason to crush it. Take any opportunity, you're trying to grow influence, you're trying to gain a relationship, but I'm not getting paid for it. No, no, no, work as disciplined as you possibly can to crush that opportunity. It's so cool, and I could mention so many staff. I'll even, just to brag on one of our youth leaders,

Paige Bryan, she did a campus pastor spot. Bryan was on vacation, and Paige did the CP spot. The next Monday, I came to Bryan, and I said, hey, I just want you to know, I don't care what Sunday, literally even Christmas Eve services, she can do that campus pastor spot anytime. You don't have to ever mention it to me again, because she just crushed it. And so I just think about, otherwise, if she would have kind of came up there, juggled her words a little bit, I don't know, well, you know, like, Bryan, hey, can we, like, sometimes, even not even being rude, you really get only one opportunity. And so just crushing that, and Paige just absolutely crushed it. That's so good. Yeah, that's really good. The fourth one is be consistent. You gain influence when you consistently show up. One of the greatest and actually easiest ways to gain influence is by just showing up. And so when I shared the staff talk, I said, this is actually the only one out of the, what, I have six of these, that I'm any good at. I'm the six on the Enneagram, the steady Yeti, like responsibility. And so I don't have a lot of superpowers, but I can keep showing up and I can be responsible.

And one of the greatest examples of this, I already talked about him, but Tyson, one of our worship leaders, like, you know, early, early on, he just went through some just hard stuff. We just had a hard culture on the worship team. And I remember him just being frustrated and frustrating. And we just were talked over and over. And I said, you know, just keep doing you, keep being you, keep giving your best, keep day after day, day after day to showing up. And he, for me, is like the definition of consistency. And now, God, has it been nine years with him? I don't even, I'm not even sure. He leads our worship team now. That's so good. Honestly, and I feel like it's a, I feel like people think it's a dig when I say it about him. I'm like, he, his superpowers, consistency. Everyone's like, I don't want that superpower. I'm like, I love that. When I know someone is gonna show up every single day and give their best, and not only that, it's about showing up every day and being the same person. I was just gonna say that, honestly, if there's one that I'm not good at, I am relentless and I will show up and work hard and work hard. Where I need to grow, sometimes you're never sure what version of me you're gonna get.

And is it gonna be stressed at him? Is it gonna be slightly annoyed at him, joy-filled at him? And for me, even Monday and Tuesday, the Met Weeks I'm preaching, those are heavy days. So even when I get at home, I've told Becky, I'm like, hey, when I come home on Tuesdays, I'm exhausted. But that's not a cop-out answer to be inconsistent. And then on Wednesdays and Thursdays, I'm like joy-filled and like, oh, life's great. Well, can you be the same person? Because this is really exhausting, Adam. Yeah, yeah. I've experienced that. Oh, shoot. But there is something about like, if you're a leader and you have people that are on your team, when you know what to expect every single day, and that's not a slight, once again, like it's like, you know what you're gonna get every day. That's powerful. Like you gain influence. I know what to expect in a mundane way, but you know, like, hey, they're gonna show up, they're gonna do their job, and they're gonna be the same presence every single day. I think that really helps gain influence. Sounds good. Before we go any further today, there are just some awesome partners we'd like to thank for making Life Between Sundays possible.

Adam, who do we have for partners? Yeah, our partners are incredible. Incredible even just looking at this. I'm like, I can't believe I get to partner with them Our first partner is the International Justice Mission IJM is a global nonprofit working to end slavery and violence around the world and they specifically focus on the most Vulnerable of people which are people experiencing poverty I was able to go on a trip with them and see the work that they're doing in Kenya But they're doing work all around the world and not just rescuing people out of trafficking or whatever or out of slavery But they're changing the structures of society So if you're interested in being a partner with their work, they call them freedom partners My wife and I have been freedom partners for the last two years Freedom partners is someone who gives gives to the work of IJM on a monthly basis. I want to encourage you go to IJM org IJM org. Our second partner is ver nighty Mitsubishi Ver 90 motor cars is a faith-based employee-owned company that strives to deliver dreams and transform lives and all that They do no matter what kind of vehicle you're looking for a Honda CRV like my wife drives an Outlander like I drive Ford Acura Chevy Honda like you name it. They're gonna have it no matter where you live. They'll ship it to you My favorite thing this week. I had a friend text me and say hey, I worked with Jared your guy He texted me. I think really? Yeah. Yeah, so I got a text Hey, I worked with your guy Jared at the Honda store because my daughter needed a new And Jared was awesome. And he's like it was amazing. I'm like, I know it was amazing Bernard he's incredible and then I did a screenshot and I sent it to my friend Jim The owner of ver nighty and I was like, hey, look at this. This is pretty cool Yeah, if you need a vehicle Jared specifically Jared at the Honda store amazing My wife who does not like any sales people at all. Really? She's an introvert She just absolutely loves Jared so go to ver nighty comm and get a vehicle Next one. The next one is we not me you gain influence when you are about about the the greater good and not just yourself

one of these things I sorry for all the basketball metaphors, but I Remember when I was in elementary school when we played basketball I I am early on was kind of a bench player and didn't ever really You know I was like kind of always looked as like that sixth or seventh man and like man I don't like that and so I realized the way to get off the bench was just to score a lot and So I just started to just like every time I touched the ball I would I would score and it worked I became one of the best players on my team, but I'll be honest I was a bit of a black hole in basketball That ball is gone shot the ball and and at the end of the day I really felt bad because I got a bit of a chip on my Shoulder during that time and I was I had averaged more points and more rebounds than anybody on our on our team but I Became about me and not about the team and I even look back to that and obviously I'm like night 17 18 at the time 19 whatever it was But but I think that sort of mentality as you get older and in in in business in in church where it kills you Yeah You can you can snuff that out a mile away when someone is about me and not about weeks good as as the team and I think even at embrace the way that even Expands a bit is to being about our mission and what we what we're about, you know Like relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus. I've told you this before it's like if I was to start a church That's not necessarily the mission statement. I would I would yeah, but I'm passionate about it because it's our mission statement Yeah, is it mine? Maybe not but it's ours. It's our teams. It's our families And I don't want to be about me. I want to be about we and like together We we this is what we do. This is what we go after. That's so good. And I One of the things that's so cool is like for me. I get so many compliments on different things like all the kids Sunday this last week was great. I'm like, I didn't do anything with that. Hey though. Here I am leadership course Oh my goodness Adam. I just want to thank you and I'm like, I did not touch a single thing And so you see just how it dependent that you are on the team and it's the team that makes it so awesome

It's the the staff. It's the people of our church that make it awesome Something that I've really I only wish I would have shifted this sooner There was probably sometimes where it's I have like, oh me me me and now I'm like, how do I push the team? How do I advance their careers their influence? Like I really am sensing like how do I like again even in my assistant? I'm like, I want her to win like whatever that means Like what are your wins like let's try to go after that and I only wish I would have had that mindset sooner Yeah, I think that's a huge thing. Just celebrate others lift other people's up I you know, I had this early morning workout group that we do it in the dead of winter Which is just crazy outside, but a lot of times I get up And I'm just like, I don't want to be here. I don't want to do this. And I can find myself really focused on myself. But then when I start encouraging others, like, hey, great that you're out here. Like, man, way to go, way to go for it. It changes the whole dynamic of what we're doing, because it's not just about me and not wanting to do this, want to be, it's about all of us. It's about the team. And I think the more we can do that, I think you just will enjoy your job a whole lot more when you make it about we instead of about me. That's so good. Last one, I believe, yep, last one, number six, invite feedback. If that's your work environment, you're never asking people to give you feedback. You're missing out on an incredible opportunity

to develop influence with them. I shared this and I thought this was so powerful. When you ask someone for feedback, this is what you're communicating to them. Just think about this. When you ask someone for feedback, this is what you're communicating to them. You're telling them, I don't know everything, which is humility. You're telling them, I want to get better. And you're also saying, I value what you have to say. I can't think of three things that would grow influence more than that. Like, hey, I don't know anything. I want to get better. And I really value what you have to say. I mean, that just increases influence in an incredible way. Ah, so good. And I feel like just the opposite of those things, defensiveness, ego, this is my area of expertise. I always say I don't want to hire experts because experts have stopped learning. Instead, I want to hire the person who's just hungry. They're sharp, they're dynamic. They actually, like, they have so much to offer, but they would never say expert because the moment you're an expert, you know everything. Something that's really cool, right now, so I coach pastors,

and one of the guys who signed up for coaching, I thought he didn't understand what it was for. Because he's probably 15 years older than me, pastors a church of several thousand people, and I couldn't believe that he was interested in coaching. So I messaged him back. His first name's Jim, not from South Dakota. And I was like, hey, Jim, man, saw that you, like, wanted more information about coaching. I just want, like, I didn't know how to explain, like, I'm, so I'm the one leading this, like, is that cool? And he wrote back, he's like, Adam, I totally understand. Like, yeah, he's like, I just, I never want to stop learning. I never want to stop growing. And I have something to learn from you. You're younger than me, and I want to keep my edge. And it made me respect him so much. And during the coaching thing, several times I'll just say, and Jim on this call right now, he could do, like, a master's course on this, and he'll be like, no, Adam, you're crushing it. But, like, it's just that nonstop learning that raises his influence in my life across the country. Like, just in that, there's something about that. And I think, too, just what you highlighted there, if you're a leader, this is how you gain influence with the people that report to you or the people around you.

When you ask them for feedback, you're like, hey, I don't know everything. Like, I value what you have to say, and I want to learn something from you. You know, like, you gain so much influence that way by asking for feedback from just other people. That is something that you're actually really good at, Adam. I feel like you really ask for feedback for anybody and anybody. One quick thing to young leaders, I think asking for feedback can be seen as a weakness. It's like, oh, I don't want to admit that I don't know this. And it's like, no, it's actually, it's a superpower. Because something I wish I'd go back on, I wish I'd go back to my 24-year-old self, 26-year-old self, 28-year-old self, and say, Weber, you are so clueless, and you don't even realize how clueless you are. And I'll say the same thing about myself 10 years from now, looking back. And yet, I feel like there's something, when you, like, are asking for feedback, man, that's just somebody that I want to lean in on. Okay. And don't get defensive. That's the hardest part, because when you ask for feedback, very good chance that you'll hear something you don't want to hear.

And I've been in that realm before. It's like, hey, what'd you think of that service this time? And all of a sudden, you hear the fear back, and I'm starting to defend myself, and getting defensive. You're like, well, I just ruined the ability to gain any influence right there. And that part gets a little bit easier, getting feedback. But literally, I was just in a meeting with you and Fink 50 minutes ago, and the two of you are giving very direct feedback about me and my leadership, and how I can grow. And at first, it's like, oh, I need to explain that, or I need to, and it's like, nope, just listen to what they have to say. I think there's something so. To our credit, you did ask for it. I did ask for it. You asked for it, so. Okay, so those are six different ways to increase your influence. And now I got some specific questions. Many think that leadership equals influence. Title equals influence. Why is that not true? So I think it's a bit how you define influence. At the beginning of this, let's see if I can find this really quickly. I define influences. The influence is the ability to shape the people around you through your presence, words, and actions.

And so some people might, I've heard before, like, let's say, Leadership is influence, they're the same thing. What I was trying to say is like, you can be in a leadership position and have no influence. You can have a position and have no influence. When I was in seminary, I remember I had a course on leadership, it was actually really good, and the guy talked about, he was the president of seminary, he said, I was at another seminary, and he's like, and there's all these professors, all these administrators, all these highest people, he said, you wanna know who had the most influence at that seminary? The admin. She ran everything. She had all the influence and everybody knew, if you wanted something done, you went through her. And it's like, well, she wasn't professor emeritus of this, and she didn't have her business degree or whatever you need, but she had all the influence. And I think that's the difference. You don't have to have the position, you don't have to have the leadership title. You can get influence at any level in an organization. Is there somebody that comes to mind that you would say in whether a current team or previous teams that had that, that you felt that? Is there anybody else that comes to mind there? Yeah, absolutely, I think.

I think there are some people that for sure come to my mind. I mean, the first one that came to mind was actually your admin, Emily. I think she just gets so much stuff done, and people wouldn't say she's got the top title or the position in here, but I mean, even when she communicates for you, like I really listen to her, I trust that what she's saying from you is the things that need to be heard, and those are the things that need to be done. And so she just has a lot of buy-in because she's done such a good job at what she's done. That's really, really good. Okay, so you've seen a large part of my life between Sundays, and you've held so many different roles in the church here over the years. You can mention the first side of this if you want to, but then, and I'm kind of asking for direct feedback on this, how have you seen me grow my influence? So if you want to mention one thing, I'll get uncomfortable if you do too much. So what is a way that I've grown my influence, and how have you seen me lose influence? This is a safe place, to be honest. Well, I think what you probably already said is the consistency of being the same person every day is maybe a way that you've lost influence at times. That's good. You are, you're just, at your heart,

you're an entrepreneur, you're a go-getter, let's get it done. And so you sometimes can't control that. Is that the right word to say? I don't know about that. And so you can get into meetings sometimes, and you're just like, let's just get this done. And you don't ever say that, but that's the feeling that you can get. And I always say, you sometimes can show frustration instead of inspiration. And as a leader, we always have to try to inspire instead of frustrate. And so that's probably one way, not consistently being the same person. That's probably what I would agree with. Honestly, I think asking for feedback, you constantly have, ever since day one, you have said, I am such an imperfect person. This is such an imperfect church. And some people might be like, he's so full of crap. Like he keeps saying the same thing over and over. It's just a buzzword. You really do believe that. You really do believe that. You really do believe that you are a work in progress. And so, and I know we've been together for a while now, but like, it's like we were married or something. We've been, we're not married. But we, but you've always asked my input

and our strategy team's input on how things have been received and how things, how you've come across on things. And for me, if you were to go into a meeting and just be frustrated and driver all the time, and I wouldn't have that other side of you, that'd be hard. It'd be hard to work with you. But the fact that you gained so much influence in me and the fact that I know you're always gonna ask me, hey, could I have done that better? What could I have done better? Yeah. Maybe that's something that helps it too. Helps grow my influences that follow up of like, hey, what could I have done better? I think you see even seeing that. That's an asking for feedback. If there's, maybe one thing of growing your influence is self-awareness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's just being self-aware. There's a mentor of mine who is definitely a driver and imperfect in a whole lot of ways. The thing that continues to endear me is he's quick to say, gosh, I can be so critical. I can be so short with people. I'm an introvert, and I don't know how to respond when people come up and praise me or whatever.

And just being able to see that self-awareness of like, oh, he knows this. That's huge. Yeah. And I think a lot of, seven or eight years ago, we went through the book Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, where we're really looking into what are my emotions? What are I feeling? What is my personality? We kind of did a lot of that together. I think that was a big part, even for you, going from a young leader to a more mature leader. Yes. That's so good. Out of the six that you mentioned, is there one that you think has the biggest amount of impact over time? Or are they all kind of equal? Is there one that comes to mind that you think this creates the biggest impact over time? So I'm going to be a bit biased. I'm going to pick the one that I feel like I'm good at. For me, it's consistency. I just think it is so, in this world, it's so easy to get enamored by the flashy leaders, the charismatic leaders, the talented people. But in my experience, it is the consistent ones. They might not be the most flashy, they might not be the most talented, but they just show up every day and they give you 100%. I just love those people. I feel like that's more of my gifting, rather than being flashy and super talented. But I just love that. And I think those are the type of people that make organizations churn and keep moving forward. Now, you need the super talented people, you need the big visionaries, you need all that. But it's the cogs in the wheel that just keep things moving forward.

And I love people like that. I love people who are just committed and they keep showing up. And I think that's been true. When you were sharing about me, I started thinking about what are the things that I value and how have you gained so much influence with me? I think it's the consistency. I think it's the wisdom. I think it's the willingness to show up and get on board with things, even when you may not be like, this is not what I would do, but whatever. But I also think a couple of things, another thing I would mention is trust. I just trust you so much because of your consistency. I trust you so much because I know that you'll tell me things that I don't want to hear. Like that's uncomfortable. And at first, when we first get, we're getting to know each other, that was uncomfortable. Now for me, it's a trust build because then when you say something positive to me, I know you're not just blowing smoke because I'm like, no, he'll say, he'll say like, you could have done that better. That message could have been better. You could have led that meeting better. Yeah. You could have responded better. So that, that for me is a huge, is a huge thing that you've just continued to gain trust is. So I think trust and self-awareness, like, yeah. Yeah. And you can't fake consistency. I don't think. No. You know, you just, you, cause you got to do it over time. You got to keep showing up and doing a good job.

And so it's the one that you just can't fake. So good. Okay. So last question, you challenged everyone when you gave that staff talk that day to rank on a scale of one to 10, how much influence they have at work. If someone's listening and right now, like they're in their, in their workplace, in their ministry, in their business, um, that scale of one to 10, if they were a two out of 10 and like, that's kind of where they feel like they, that how much influence they have, what should they do first? Where should they start? What should, what should they evaluate? Yeah. I mean, the very first thing is don't blame anybody else. If you're, if you're blaming the organization and I'm not saying there's not toxic work places, there is, you know, that happens, but then you got to get a different job. You got to find a different job, you know, you got to get to a different place, but you can't gain influence if you start with blame as just such a deep conviction of me. Anytime I am not taking responsibility for myself and my own life, it just does not, it does not go well. It does not go well for me. And so you have to move, move from, move from blame blame. But I mean, if you have a direct report, I mean, this is kind of in the feedback thing or if you have a boss, go and talk to them and say, Hey, I don't know that I have great influence. What do you see? How could I gain influence with the team? How could I gain influence with you? I mean, that's a hard conversation because you're going to hear a bunch of stuff that you don't want to hear probably, but it would be the most beneficial because then from the horse's mouth, the person who, you know, who you report to, they can tell you exactly what

it is they believe that you need to gain influence. So those are two steps that I would, I would take right away. Any other specifics with that? Like I even think about timing, like think about like when that person is most available, like emotionally even like, like I'm just trying to help anybody who's in there. Like for me, Monday or Tuesday would be a terrible day. to say, Hey, Adam, uh, when, how can I grow my leadership? But if you ask me on a Wednesday or a Thursday, I'd be wide open to it and just think like, I'm pretty quick. Like I can, I can answer questions quick. Um, but I was just talking to someone last night. They said, um, I was, I was like, would you ever be on my podcast? And she's like, Hey, my husband, he's so good and down his toes. I'd want time to think about those questions. So if you're, if you're a report is somebody that needs to process it, maybe even say, Hey, Travis, um, I really want to, I loved how you even phrased the question. You, you didn't say, uh, I don't feel like I have leadership. Why am I not getting leadership? Like that was cause that was a blame. That would be a blame. You said, I feel like I don't have much leader. What can I do? Like responsibility, responsibility, but maybe even if you know that your report just needs time to process and like, Hey, you need to know, do you want the honest feedback? Uh, so when you go into that, you really have to send, set defensiveness aside. Like if you're wanting to get the gold, like, like what you actually need to do. Um, but even maybe even the simplest, Hey Travis, I want to ask you this question. Um, could we, so I kind of want to give you the question and then like maybe in a couple of days or a week from now, drop them, drop them an email and say, Hey, this is something I've been thinking about. So can we schedule something in like whenever it works for you? Can we schedule something to talk about, talk about this? And, uh, I just want to make sure you feel like this is a good time. And I think, and this is hard cause I'm, I'm as, I'm just like anybody. I don't, I don't like feedback, but you, you want it. You really do. And it's actually, it's actually not that bad. I mean, it's hard to hear, but once you hear it and process it and know the truth, I mean, Jesus said, the truth sets you free. Right? I mean, there is a sense like once you hear that feedback, it gives you something to run for and you become more self aware. Like I'm so self, I'm not so self aware, but I know a lot of the things I'm just not that great at now because I've gotten feedback over time about those things. And so it hurts. It's

like a shot, right? It hurts for a little bit and then you go on with it. Um, and it's only really helpful in the long run. I think one other question that I would say is what are times and or is there anything I say or do or specific situations that I've lost influence? Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. That could even get to the heart of things like even more like an even given permission. If you have a, if you have a supervisor who's a people pleaser, he or she might be really slow to say that. But when you ask that specific question, it's like, Oh, Oh. And the hard thing is it, it's, it's easy to lose it. You know, from one experience you can lose influence pretty fast and then it takes a while to build that back up. But you can build it back up. You definitely can. But it is hard. You know, you, you know, if you, if you don't show up when you were supposed to be there and they really needed you, I mean, that's, that's, it's going to take a little bit of time to, or, or you were inconsistent. And one time you absolutely blew a gasket at a meeting or in a, in a hard conversation, like you just absolutely lose it. I mean, everybody's going to walk on eggshells because it's like, when is that going to happen again? And the best thing with that is just put the tail between the legs and say, I'm sorry, what I did was wrong and I want to make it up to you. I want to do better. That's so good. And then do, and then you got to do better. If you don't, then you just, you'll just be in a cycle of losing influence. Any closing thoughts that you'd have, like any, any closing words that you'd want to share? No, I don't, I don't, I don't think so. I, I just, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I just would encourage everyone, unless you're in a toxic work environment, you have the ability to gain influence in it. And it's, it's not, it's not that difficult. It's not that hard. You don't have to be smart. You don't have to be talented. You just have to be seen, show up, ask for feedback. I can't remember them all. I mean, these things are all, they're all basic things. And I don't know about you, more and more I've grown in my leadership and in my faith. It's the simple things that matter. It really is. None of, well, some of you, if you're a brain surgeon and you're listening, that's fine. Most of us are not doing brain surgery here. Our, our jobs, it is, it is the simple things over time that, that make a great, make you gain, gain your influence.

So, yeah, Travis, thanks so much for, for sharing. And, and I just would encourage you, like if you're wanting to grow your influence, I did a staff talk earlier this week and I just said the bar is so low. I actually think the bar is so low in gaining influence as well. And so just look at these six things. What are, what's, what's one or two areas that you need to improve or, or step up in and then just go for it. And just super excited to see the results and, and what God does in and through that faithfulness. Well, thank you guys so much for listening today. Hopefully you found a piece of Adam and Travis's conversation helpful. Yeah, seriously. Share this with other people. Like I, I like, this is one of my favorite interviews. I think so too. As soon as Travis did this at all. I'm like, that was so good. He needs to come and check it out on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So share this with friends. Travis, thanks for just everything, for being a partner in crime with me at the church, just for your wisdom and your grace and kindness towards me. I'm so grateful. Thanks to our partners, the International Justice Mission. Go find out more about them, IJM.org and Vern Eide Mitsubishi. Endlessly grateful for the work you do. VernEide.com. Go buy yourself a vehicle if you need one. Go do that, but have an awesome rest of your day, and thanks so much for listening in. Thanks, guys.