Episode 044 || The King Shares His Power

- Well, what's up, Pando family? We're excited to have you on our Pando exclusive podcast for week two of the Kingdom is Real sermon series. Excited to be back with y'all. If it's your first time, welcome. I am here with my normal co-host, Brandon, from online team. - My name's Derek, I'm from our online team, but we have a special guest today with us. We have Jamie Snyder from our preaching ministry. And Jamie, summer's wrapping up. What does summer look like for the Snyder family? - Summer was fun, man. I can't believe it's over already. The kids did some camps and did a little bit of traveling and trying to rest and get ready for a new school year, but here it is upon us already. So we just dropped off our oldest child at college. - Oh, wow. - So still dillings all the feels of that. - Yeah, it's crazy. Big transition. You think you're prepared for it and then you're not. - Oh, I'm four years out from that. And I'm already like, nope. It is. That's a hard nope. - Yeah. - I know. It's like, are you sure you want to go to college?

- Yeah, goodness. Yeah, that would be a bit. That's a big transition. - It is. - It's so bittersweet. 'Cause we actually took him to, we most recently planted a church in West Palm Beach, Florida. And so his dream was to go to college there. So he could be back at the church we planted. - Okay. - And so he's in the place we were. And so it's so sweet for him and so bitter for us and all that. But we're super happy for him. It's Christian University and his dream is to be the kids pastor at the church we planted. - Oh, okay. - And so it's like, man, we're thankful for that. - Yeah. - That's awesome. - Very cool. - Well, Jamie, where are you from? How'd you get here? What do you do? It's out the east. - Yeah, so I grew up in small town, Kansas. I say Kansas is a good place to be from, but I'm glad I don't live there anymore. But 20 years ago, I met my wife, Alex, right here in Louisville, Kentucky,

at Southeast Christian Church. We've been out in ministry for the last 20 years and transitioned to Southeast about a year and a half ago. Transparently, I just needed time to rest and recharge and recover from a challenging season I went through. And so we've been thankful to be here at Southeast and just play our part contributing to the ministry and trying to catch our breaths a little bit. - Love that, man. And so I've never been to Kansas before. Have you been to Kansas? - You know, we went to a concert in Kansas City, Missouri and just decided we're gonna drive over the border, just to say we went to Kansas and come back around. So I've been in Kansas for like five minutes. And I feel like that was enough. - That's long enough. - That's long enough. - And you've been the best part of the state. So you've been there. - So Kansas City is in Missouri. - In Kansas. - In Kansas. - Okay, explain that to you. Half and half? - It sits right on the river. - Yeah. - It's probably about half and half. It's a really large metropolitan area. A couple million people or so, but I would say, I would say half and half-ish.

But people are very protective about which side of the state you know, it's like, are you Missouri or you Kansas? So it's a big deal. Honestly, let me say this on behalf of Kansas. There's wonderful people there. There's some wonderful things that happen there. But, you know, growing up in Kansas, everyone said, "Hey, do you know Dorothy?" You know, like, all right. So that's the joke everyone's gotta tell. If you're thinking the joke, just let it go. Don't bother with that. And did you grow up on a farm? And the answer is, I did not grow up on a farm, but there's plenty of farm land there. So I'm sure it's a fine place, but that was a lifetime ago for me now. - Yeah, so the phrase, "We're not in Kansas" that I grew up in. - Yeah, there we go. - There we go. - Yeah. And he's not. - I'm not. - I just show him not in Kansas anymore, yes. - Well, so like, being from Kansas, like what are a few things like to think back? Like, hey, like, here are the things that people are the most proud of from Kansas. - Yeah, wow. - Like how? - I would say, I mean, there's some big-time sports fans there, so like, I'm a fan of the Kansas Jayhawk,

so that's what I'm most proud of. - Yeah, that makes sense. - That makes sense, yeah. - They probably put us on the map, Kansas City Chiefs, though they play in Missouri, but they get ready to move to Kansas, I'm excited about that. So, man, besides that, you know, they would say the beauty of the Plains, I guess. - The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? - Okay. - So, you can see from one side of the state to the other, essentially, so. It's kind of, it's some tornadoes there. - Tornado tornadoes, lots tornado damage. - Oh, man. - So tornado alley, yeah. - Yeah, that would be intense. That'd be very-- - But I was in high school, and there was a tornado warning, which there was almost every night in the spring, kids would get in the car and go searching for the tornado. So, warning's not even serious at all. Don't try that at home for anybody ever, but yeah, they would go out and search for the storms. - Oh, my gosh. - You going out looking for trouble? - Nope, looking for a tornado. - Yeah, exactly. - Man, yeah. Here in Kentucky, man, you're finally like, you start getting those weather alerts, you, I mean, you hunker down, you start diving in your basement.

- And there's like, where is it? - You know, so. - Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, what would we say for Kentucky? Like horse race in the Kentucky Derby? - The Kentucky Derby. Yeah, there are some people who are proud of the Wildcats. Yeah, some people. They're a problem. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Well, Jamie, we're glad to have you on here and today we're going to be talking about Tripoli and his message from Sunday. And if you all have been tracking with us for a little bit on Panda, I've been watching our services trip as a guy that rapper, producer, artist, probably many other things that I'm missing, but very, very talented at what he does. And I think that he definitely brings God's word in a very unique way each time that we get to hear him here at Southeast. But maybe just to kick it off for our own basic conversation today, what was maybe one or two things for you guys that just stuck with you? Like, man, this was something that I loved that he mentioned. Yeah, I loved just kind of how Tripp put the whole idea of the sermon when he talked about how we worship a king who shares his power. And I thought that was just such a great way to put that, to think about the power that Jesus gives us as his people, the power that's available to us through the Holy Spirit, and how he set that up. I think that was just such a great way to think of that.

Because I don't think we often consider that, right? Like, oh, we talk about the Holy Spirit. Sometimes we think about the Holy Spirit. But we don't often think about the power of the Spirit available in our lives day to day. And I think that was just a great way to set up that idea of the kingdom and the king sharing his power with his people. Yeah, I love that. I was personally just very inspired by the message. In fact, I had the opportunity to send Tripp just a message after the weekend. And I said, man, thank you for reminding me personally that the power is real. Because part of what's going on in my life in the season I've been in, I feel like at times I just act as if I'm completely powerless, that man, and I get literally goosebumps because Ephesians one reminded us that the same power, the same power that rose Jesus from the dead, is coursing through the veins of his people. And so here in that really practical example from Tripp and a reminder, he started out talking about if he found out you inherited, what was it, a billion dollars? That'd be nice, right? Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. I would take just a million to be fine with me. 1,000, that could be 1,000 here. But he did that in the context of think of the power we've inherited as Christ followers. And that was just very soul stirring for me.

And personally, in my own walk with Christ. Yeah, I think what I loved about this is this idea about the power of Christ being in his people. It's one of those things that almost can sound too good to be true, right? Biblically, we see that it's true. But it's another thing, Jamie, like you were mentioning, where it's like, OK, we start to deal with some legit, hard things that are disrupting our life, right? The way that we would want to live, even-- I mean, gosh, I can think of several things where it's like, man, I know that trying to step into this situation or that situation, it can be so difficult because you feel like you're powerless, right? But to believe that that same power that rose Christ from the grave lives in us. And so how do we process through the tension of that? Knowing that it's biblically true, but sometimes hard to believe or feel. That's a good question. Have you guys figured that out? I wish I had a PhD in that, literally. It's so much a part of my story, especially over the last couple of years, that trying to bridge that gap between my knowledge-- because I believe that. Everything inside of me believe what Ephesians 1 says, that the same power. I read through Acts. And the pages of Acts, if you've been

reading in Acts in your Bible, the pages are reverberating with power. They prayed and prisons are open. They prayed and this. They prayed. And I believe that same Holy Spirit is available working in us and through us. So how do we bridge that gap to the knowledge, to the experience? And like Tripp said, as he alluded to Acts 3, it doesn't mean that we're going to be able to go around and heal every single person we see. And it doesn't mean we're going to be able to snap our fingers in all the difficult circumstances that all of us have in our lives just going to go away. But it's experiencing and embracing that power within the circumstances. I think oftentimes, if we think that power means, well, I can just change these circumstances. I don't think usually that what's that power is going to do. It's going to allow us to take one more step, one more breath, one more day in the middle of our current circumstances, which I know for all of us for different reasons, is kind of hard to hear if we wanted to mean something else. Yeah, because we want to-- most of the time, I want my circumstances to just change. I don't want to have to navigate through the every step, every breath type of thing. But I think that's almost a point sometimes, too, right, is where--

in the midst of it. But I think as I was just processing through Tripp's sermon, that's what I felt, that tension of like, gosh, I see this to be true. I want it to be true. I see it biblically. But when it comes to that in my life, gosh, I can struggle with doubt in that area. And it's like, man, like, God, am I broken? Is there something wrong with me? Is it a me thing? Is it a you thing? You know, as it just happened for other people. But I'm looking forward to talking about this a little more with you guys, diving into it. But Tripp had talked about a passage in Acts, which we have in the New Testament. But he was talking about this idea of it being a sequel, right? What did he mean by that? Yeah, so Acts and the Gospel of Luke share the same author. It's written by Luke, who is a doctor who was known to be a traveling companion of Paul. And so Luke is right. He writes his Gospel. He writes it to a guy or a kind of a generic audience member called Theophilus. He writes the Gospel, says, I investigated it and I wanted to check it out. And so he ends his Gospel.

And then for whatever reason, decides to come back and write a story of the history of the early church. And he begins it by letting you know, like, hey, this is a sequel to whatever written before. In fact, Acts 1, he starts with, in my first book, like, OK. So he is seeing this as a continuation of what he has already written. And so I think there's been a lot of people wondering, why did he come back to tell the story of the church? Some people say it was in defense of Paul, who was on trial in the Roman Empire at that point in time. Other people are just like, well, he just wanted to keep telling the story. I don't know, but for whatever reason, Luke decided to give us this historical account of, this is how the church started. This is what was going on as the church spread. As he sets it up in Acts 1, 8, it has the church spreads from Jerusalem to Judea Samaria to the ends of the earth. Like, this is how the church went in 30 years from being centralized in Jerusalem to being present all throughout the Roman Empire. And can we talk about Luke for a second? So I know one of the questions that can be had is that like, OK, well, hold on a second. So like Luke, Luke's not a disciple, not one of the 12 disciples, right? So can we walk through a little bit of who Luke is? So he's a companion of Paul, right? He wrote the gospel of Luke.

He's writing Acts here. Who is Luke? I'm going to defer to Brandon. He's our scholar here. Oh, gosh. Then we're in trouble. Perfectly describe him right here. So Luke was about five foot nine. No, so Luke was-- he was a Gentile. Is what we know about him. He was-- he was a Gentile. And he was a traveling companion of the apostle Paul. And we see his engagement with the gospel in the early church, actually in Acts, because there are multiple times-- I don't know them on top of my head. There are multiple times in the book of Acts where he'll say, we. Like, we did this. We took off-- so he is a traveling companion who goes around with Paul on the missionary journeys. He's kind of picked up somewhere, I think, in the second missionary journey. He goes around with him. And even in the pastoral letters, we see Paul writing about Luke and how he serves him. It seems as though Luke was a physician, I think is either what tradition or church history tells us about him, that he was a doctor. And so you see that throughout Luke and Acts, in fact.

And I think Tripp brought it up in his message this weekend, that there are times where he will describe the healing using medical terms that would have been common in that day. Interesting. Yeah, so you'll be like, oh, OK. So this is where-- like, Luke knows what he's talking about. An example of that, Brandon, that I've always referred to is when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, Luke explains it in such specific detail that he was sweating drops of blood, which actually indicates a certain medical condition and diagnosis that Luke is a doctor would have known of. So it's really interesting. And when you pay attention to details of the writers, it's like, oh, yeah, he's a detailed guy. Like, he sees the symptoms, he sees the-- so it's interesting, his experience seems to come out in the way he writes about it. Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting to trace some of the through lines between like Luke and Acts. Because you'll see-- I'm thinking of a specific, I think, earlier in Luke, Jesus raised a little girl back to life. I think it's Jairus's daughter. And the name he would have referred to her is Talitha, which is like a little girl, like, like, raise up. And then later on in the book of Acts, like Luke will come back to that when

Peter raises a woman back from the dead, and her name is Tabitha. So he kind of juxtaposes those together he's very clear on the fact that, oh, the apostles, they're picking up the work Jesus did, and they're doing the things he did in the world, even though he's ascended. So, but anyway, Luke was, he's a doctor, he's writing, it seems like he wrote Luke just to be a very detailed, researched account of the gospel. You know, he's heard these stories from Paul, he's heard the preaching of the apostles, and he wants to go back and investigate and figure out, like, okay, this is what the gospel is, this is the story of the life, the death, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and then Acts, he gets into the story of the church, and he'll tell it from the, Luke ends with the ascension of Jesus, Acts begins with the ascension of Jesus. I've always said, if you guys know the Rocky movies, right, the Rocky movies always pick up with the movie before, right, the last five minutes, and then you go up, that's kind of what Luke and Acts does. He picks up with the last five minutes, and then goes forward. - So, Rocky would be an adequate sequel for you, then, based off of trippin' classes? - Oh, yeah, like Rocky, Rocky II and Rocky IV, like, for sure. Like, for sure, they're fine, they're fine. - Okay, gotcha.

- So, you know, he kind of backs that up, and then he'll leave Acts kind of open-ended, because at that point in time, Paul is still in jail, in Rome, and he ends, actually, the book of Acts ends with the word unleashed. It's the last word in the Greek language, where he's just saying, hey, the gospel has been set out. It's unleashed to go do what it does. And there, you know, and we won't get into it. I was gonna say, there's some other things that people think he might have written in the New Testament as well, but Luke and Acts are, for sure, bear his mark, and as Jamie pointed out, like, it shows that he was, I mean, he was this doctor. He was very beneficial to Paul, it seems, as he went throughout his journeys. - I love that. What confidence we can have in what we have in our Bibles, knowing that, like, this guy, Luke, that God used in such incredible ways, like has such, what's the right word? - Specificity. - How do you say it? - Specificity? - Specificity. - You said it. - There it is. - You said it. - There it is. - That's a hard word. - I knew before I was about to say that,

I'm like, this is a risk. - I'm not ahead of time. - This is a risk here. But in the language and the words that he used, that gives me such faith, knowing that, like, okay, like, you know, the words we read here, right, are a couple thousand years old, and yet we can trust, right, that this guy named Luke is writing this and giving us an account of what either has been told to him, has been taught to him, has he seen? I think that's incredible. - Well, Derek, a little side note on the Gospels that I think about is, you know, God, when he inspired the writing of the Gospels, he knew that different kinds of people were going to be reading the Gospels who think a different way or know why are it a different way. And there's some, you know, in this room and in some listening in that you're that kind of researcher. Like, if you're going to see if this is true or not, you need details and you need times and you need places and you need historical facts, but then you can read the Gospel of John, and it's a totally different kind of narrative. You know, he's approaching who Jesus is and what Jesus is like, and it isn't really about the facts and the place and the details. And so I love that God bent scripture in a way that like, "Hey, I know there's more than one type of you out there.

"I'm the one who made you. "I know what's going to serve and help you." And so Luke was for those of you out there that you need facts, you need information, you need to be able to prove it. And I know for some people that is what's drawn them to their belief in Jesus is how specific he was with his detailed account of the Gospel. - And Mark is just the Gospel for people who need like quick-hitting stories. - You know how much time, yeah. He did this, he did this anyway. But it is amazing to think that. - Yeah. - I love that point because I know that there are so many of you that are watching this that have different ways that you have gone about finding the truth about Jesus, right? And ultimately where we find that truth is in scripture. And that's why I am so grateful for the different perspectives and yet pointing to the same truth. And one of the passages that Tripp was focusing on this weekend was in Acts chapter three, right? I was talking about Peter and John and healing of this lame beggar. And so either one of you want to set up kind of the passage of this story? - Yeah, so pretty simple, you know, what I love too about the book of Acts, it's just so straightforward. Whether you have a PhD in theology

or you're reading the Bible for the very first time, the vast majority of Acts, you could pick up and read or heard it read and totally understand it on your own. And Acts three is a good example of that. It literally starts out Peter and John went to the temple. They went to the temple at a certain time to pray. It tells us that they find this lame man who is set there at the temple gates. He's been there day after day after day. He's been lame since birth and they encountered this guy and this guy does what this guy does. He's asking for money. He's asked for help and assistance. They didn't have any governmental assistance. They didn't have any Medicaid that he could have benefited from. It was just the kindness of people that he was surviving off of. So Peter and John walk up. He says, "Hey, do you have something for me or do they have this interaction?" And Brandon take it from here and tell them what happens next. So I love Peter. I've always loved Peter's response there, right? You guys have any money and Peter stops and I was like, "We don't have any silver or gold." The guy's probably like, "Well, this is great." Thanks a lot, guy. But then he says, "But what I do have, I give you in the name of Jesus Christ, the Nazarene. Get up and walk." And they heal the man there at the temple. And again, it's not just a miracle of restoration, like it's a miracle of regeneration. Because as Trip pointed out, the dude is able to get up and jump and run and praise God. He hasn't walked at all and he suddenly has the ability as if he had always been walking. So he goes into the temple.

He's celebrating. All the people see this. They're astounded by it. And it gives Peter an opportunity to preach the gospel to them. He shares the gospel going on through Acts chapter 3. And then as Peter is wanting to do throughout the gospels and acts, he gets them arrested. He's preaching the gospel. The temple authority doesn't like it. They throw Peter and John in prison. The first imprisonment for the preaching of the gospel we see in Acts is that they get thrown in jail for this. I think they spend the night there and the Sanhedrin calls them. For them the next day, they have to give you a count of what they've been doing. And that's the passage I know Kyle has preached before where the temple authority look at them and they're like, "Well, they see that Peter and John, they're just ordinary fishermen. Like they're just ordinary men, but they've been with Jesus." And that has made them bold, that's given them confidence and power and understanding. And I think this is the same, like so much happens in Acts 3 and 4. It's the same passage where they tell Peter and John, like, "You guys got to stop preaching the gospel." And they're like, "Yeah, we're not going to do that. Like you have to judge. Are we going to listen to you or are we going to listen to God?" And they continue, they go back and they tell the church what's happened and the church celebrates. Like, all right. Like we, you know, we've got their attention now and the gospel continues to spread. You know, like all the stories in the Bible, there are so many layers of this to be unpacked, but specifically on Tripp's message on Sunday, one of the things that, and I've taught this passage many times as a preacher and teacher.

One of the things he said that impacted me, again, personally, my own story, and I think we'll resonate with any of us listening in, any of us that have heard the message or read Acts 3. So this guy is thinking he's making a big ask and he is kind of, he's like, "I need money. I got to eat. I got to get through the day. I got to survive the day." He was literally looking just to survive. So he asked for what in his mind was the most significant thing he could ever need. "I need some money. I need some silver and gold." And they said, "We don't have that, but what we have, we give you." And Tripp said, "Could it be that you've been asking God for something so much less than he really wants to give you?" Man, that impacted me. Ooh. Ooh. Because I look at the details that I get consumed by and fixate on and ruminate on. Well, if this changed and that changed and God would do this thing and that thing, that they do feel like big things to me. They don't feel insignificant. And I left this week and literally thinking, "I think God wants something bigger for me than I've been wanting for myself." And I think that would probably apply to many of you that are listening in. It's not that way. You can't pray for anything too big or too small, but I'm just saying, "Let's elevate our vision and open our eyes to think that maybe it's not a no from God. Maybe it's, but I have something so much greater if you'll listen and lean in." Because this guy could have just ended the conversation, but he's like, "Yo, you don't have the thing I've asked for.

Okay, I'm moving on. Anyone else? Anyone else?" And there said, "Look at us." And then told him, and luckily the guy went along with that, but I wonder what we've missed from God, because we're unwilling to slow down and consider what he may be trying to do for us in this. It's something to think about. That's a really good thought and, you know, because it makes me think of like when we read this story, like, "Man, like this is awesome. Like I'm glad that Peter and John were able to do that, you know, but I've never been able to walk, pick a guy up, and heal them, right?" Even think of all the other, the miracles, the things that we see, the power of God that he's done. And yet I look at my life and I'm like, "Man, like, well, I'm not sure I understand." And I think Tripp dove into it a little bit, but maybe could we talk about, like when we're talking about in this message that Tripp reminded us that the King shares his power. Right? The King shares his power. So the King we're talking about Jesus. But like what does that power that we're talking about? Like we see it like in these miracles in a way that there's healing and how would we define power? Well, you know, I mean, Jesus defines it. When he commissions his disciples to go out in Acts chapter one, right? In Acts chapter one, as Jesus has gathered them together, as he's about to ascend, he says in Acts one eight,

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you." And like that is the power that I should say, he is the power, the Holy Spirit is the power that is driving the church through the book of Acts that is driving, you know, believers on this task that Jesus has given us to do. And you know, so when we talk about power, we're not talking so much about, you know, I guess we hear the word power and we think of strength, right? Like physical strength to go do, like we're not talking about power so much in that regard. I don't think we're talking about this connection with God and you know, having the Spirit in our lives to guide us, to direct us, to lead us into what he has. And that's not to say obviously they did things that were very powerful. But you know, there is that element of, we're not just talking about power for power's sake. We're talking about like power with a purpose and with a mission to do what Jesus has set us out in this world to do. - You know, honestly, just to be totally vulnerable with everyone listening in, I actually confessed this during, I was preaching a message this past weekend and I talked about one of these passages. In Jesus' economy, I don't like how he does the power thing because when we think of power typically it's make me strong and make me powerful and make me so I don't have to depend upon anyone or anything.

And culturally that's what we mean by power. We wanna be dependent or independent if we're powerful and Jesus is like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like power in my kingdom, it means you're radically dependent on me. And I'm going to the verse you guys know when Paul, the writer of several of the letters in the New Testament have this thorn in his flesh. We don't know what it is. Scholars can debate about it, it doesn't really matter. And he said, I ask God and I ask God and I ask God to take it away. In other words, he was asking God, God, make me strong, make me strong so I can do my thing. And God told him, he said, no, no, I'm not gonna do that. My power is made perfect in your weakness. And I don't like that. - Yeah, that's a bummer. - I really don't, I do not like that. - That's been my life experience, especially recently. I wanted to say, my power is made perfect in your power. Like, James, I'm gonna make you strong and you're gonna be independent. You don't have to rely on anyone or anything. And me and God, honestly, right now, are in this wrestling match. Like, I don't like the way you do this. But he's like, but if you just would surrender to me, then my power can unleash your word in and through your life.

And it may not mean you've been lame and you can jump up and you go walk and you can run in your skip. In fact, when I was at church this weekend, listening to Tripp's message, the young man behind me, who's a dear friend of mine, he doesn't have legs. And I kept thinking, man, how's he hearing this? Because we could minimize this passage of just being, okay, we need that particular miracle of God's powerful in our lives. But again, usually he's gonna unleash his power in our circumstances and not change him. And I'm probably not the only one. I don't like that. I just wish his power man. He was always gonna change his circumstances. But in a way we can understand he's up to something greater. So I would just encourage you, whatever your circumstances are you're in right now, you're like, well, God, if you're really powerful, or if I really had your power, then it would mean this, God's up to something. And it may take you while to recognize what it is. And it's gonna require you to return to him again, and again, and again, and again. And that's exactly what he wants you to do. And that's when the power will start unleashing. - It takes me back to what you asked.

That very first question, like that disconnect between talking about power and living in power, I think so often one of our problems, like you're talking about, Jamie, is it's so hard for us to live in the power of God because we are so much more comfortable living in our own power, right? Like I do not, like given my choice, like I do not wanna put myself in situations where I have to rely on the power of God, right? It's like I wanna rely-- - Oh, it sucks. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - There's no doubt to say it. - There's no doubt to say it. - Yeah, yeah. - Like it's one of those, like if I know I'm heading into something where it's like, oh, I'm really gonna have, like God's gonna have to show up here. Like that's scary. Like, you know, it's a whole lot easier to, like I have to walk into a situation where I have to show up. I mean, that's 50/50, but at least I feel like I have control over. - At least you're depending on you. - Yeah, at least I'm depending on you. - And you're the one to blame, yeah. - That's right. because we're unwilling or we're too scared to step out into those spaces where God is gonna meet us in that. And it's like, like, like, James is reminding us, it's that when I step into that weakness is actually when his power is made perfect,

not when I step into my strength, and that's scary. - And it's hard to, like, for years, I've been able to quote that passage, but to embrace it and to live it is hard. But Paul somehow actually learned to believe it because his next line he said, "And so I boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses." I'll be honest with all of you, I'm not to that point yet. I'm still battling against my weaknesses. I'm still trying to figure out a way to, like, dismiss them or, like, overcome them. Paul said, "I boast in my weaknesses "because I know his power has made perfect in my weakness." And that is in sign of incredible spiritual maturity can. You know, especially men, the last thing we wanna do is acknowledge that we're weak. Acknowledging your weak is one of the most spiritually mature things you could ever do because you are then totally opened up to the power of God to do what he wants to do. And so we can check how we're doing in terms of our spiritual growth of how willing we are to admit I'm, I just, I don't how much to offer. - So being willing to admit that you have weakness that you are weak is a sign of spiritual maturity. I love that line. And you're right, I absolutely see that. But why do you think that is a part of our journey? Like, why is it so important for us to get to that spot in our walk with Christ?

- I mean, because I'm trying to think how I wanna say this, because that's, I mean, that's what the gospel is all about, right? It's just growing in that. Like, because even at the point where we first accept Christ, what we're acknowledging is like, hey, I can't do this on my own. I can't do that. Like, no matter what I do, no matter what I try to do, I cannot make it to God on my own. And when we grow in the gospel and when we grow in faith, what we're growing in, I'm gonna go back to what you said, Jimmy, we're not growing in independence. Like, as we grow in our faith, we're not growing on independence. - It's not like I got this life. - It's just, we're not growing in dependence on God. Like, it's not-- - It's dying to ourselves. - Yeah, it's not me knowing that I can do this. It's not me becoming more spiritually competent. It's me realizing, oh, like, I'm more lost than I thought, and I need him more and more and more than I ever imagined. And so I think sometimes we get it turned on ourselves where we think, oh, like spiritual growth is growing in independence. And it's really growing in dependence and recognizing, like, I gotta trust in him more than I did when I first came to him. - And Jesus, by the way, didn't create that as a mystery. His incredible sermon on the Mount, you can find in the gospel of Matthew 5, 6, and 7,

snippets up at other places, his very first line, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. It's just like introducing his brand new kingdom, inviting people in, and really the best translation of that is when you understand you are spiritually helpless, then you're ready for my kingdom. And that acknowledgement is hard. Like, again, I said it in a teaching recently that you're not ready for a relationship with God until you can say, I need God. Not I want God, or I like to have God around, or I'm okay with God, I need God. I wouldn't have designed my kingdom that way, thank goodness it's not my kingdom, but his kingdom is designed that way, and it isn't because he wants to keep us pressed under our thumb. It's because he wants to lift us up and elevate us, and you can't do that if you're battling against him. It's the whole surrender. Until we surrender, he can't have his way in his way so good. And I'm still in the middle of trying to figure it all out, so please don't hear me that I know what it's like to surrender, man, I'm wrestling with God on this, but he said, this is my kingdom. My kingdom is yours when you say Jesus, I bring nothing. He's like, oh, I bring everything, and I want you to be a part of it.

It's this upside down way of his kingdom. - But for sure. - Well, I was gonna say, I love the way you put it, 'cause it made me think like, oh, the grace of God in that, because if I were building a kingdom, like I want a kingdom of people who have it all together. - Yeah, it'd be a pretty empty kingdom. Like, I need you guys to work your stuff out. And then you can come be a part of my kingdom. And Jesus' invitation to us is like, no, like, I have it. All you have to bring is weakness, and that's fine. - 'Cause he and my power. - Yeah, he shares his power. He has all the strength. And the, oh, but the grace of God that he calls us into that, even when we're not put together. - Well, it's fascinating because I think in, you know, when I think of that word surrender, right? That has such a negative connotation in our world. Like, such a negative, like surrender, like, okay. Like, what my mind immediately goes to is like warfare. Like, I think of like war movies, right? But what I'm continuing to learn and from this conversation is that no, like in our walk with Christ, like surrendering to him is a such a good thing. Such a good thing. And it's interesting too, because as we're talking about this idea that the longer we're following Christ, like again, we're not moving towards independence. We're actually moving closer and maybe deeper and deeper and deeper into dependence in our life. And I think about like, I don't even know what the right analogy would be, but it's like if you have a teacher or you have this

person who's teaching you the skill or you have a boss, right? And kind of the expected journey is that, okay, you kind of learn some things from them, but it's so that one day you can do it without them. Yeah. You know, and it's almost the complete, almost the complete opposite, right? Where it's like, man, the longer that you're doing this thing walking with Jesus, the more that you realize that, well, actually I can't do anything apart from him. And that kind of rubs against our pride, maybe our control. You guys experience maybe similar and all of you listening in, my story, at least the longer I follow Jesus, the more aware I've become of my helplessness. I really have. I think early on in my faith, it was, I'm strong and I know the scriptures and I know the knowledge. Maybe it's because I'm like in midlife and tired and I'm raising kids and doing life and I've gone through some crises, but it's like the more dependent I realize him upon him, the longer I follow him, but it's that journey of becoming okay with that because we want to wrestle against that because of all the pride and culture and stuff, but it's just remembering that this is how it all began anyway, that one time in November of 1992, I decided I'm spiritually bankrupt. And somehow we make it more complicated after that and then we have to unwind it all again. Like, remember, you said yes to Jesus because you're helpless and hopeless and now with him, you have everything. And so if you feel helpless and hopeless and weak, it is a great time to reach out for Jesus because he takes people like you and me and us and says, man, you will be shocked what I can do with you and then you and through you. And I'm not going to need your strength to do it. I've got it. Yeah, because I think we we do struggle against that. I, you know, self reflecting even right now of like, man, like, whether it's I'm trying to prove something to myself or I'm trying to prove something to other people. And in my focus can just be so off base, you know, so off base of trying

to prove something or make myself feel a certain way. But there is a freedom and even this there is a freedom in surrender. Yeah, we're almost our world. We see a surrender being defeat or surrendering equal defeat. Well, actually it's equally victory for us in Christ. And and it's only because of the king, right? Nothing to do with us only because of the king. And when we think about his power, right, it's not that we're developing this incredible power within us because, you know, X, Y and Z, we've accomplished this, we've done that like, no, like it's, it's only through Christ. And oftentimes the way that his power shows up is through our weakness, which is a bummer, it is, but it forces us to depend on them. And just one thing on this dependence real quick, Derek and Brandon is, you know, I think many of us that are believers are followers. We do believe in the power of Jesus. Like I find myself thinking like, man, if Jesus were in the car with me right now, if he's walking into this room with me, if he was walking up on that stage with me right now, man, I could because we think like the first disciples did, if Jesus was here in person, it'd be better because I'd have the strength and I'd have the power. We've got to believe what Jesus said is true, though it's still hard to believe. He's when he left, he said, it's better for you that I leave because I'm going to send my spirit who's not going to just be with you. He's going to be in you. So the way we think about, man, if Jesus was here, we've got to realize, well, let's multiply that in the spirit is here. And that I think for me has been a rub like, how do we get to where we experientially believe that? Because like if Jesus, King Jesus next to my side, the one who speaks in demons, run and flee, if he's next to my side, like there's no one. I'm not afraid of anything, but he said, he said that, hey, I live in you now.

So we got to give him a space to do. He said it's better for us that the spirit come. And so that's the, that's the tension for us to live in, knowing that surrender is actually where God wants us to be, that if we're hopeless, if we're helpless, the longer we follow Christ, the more that we see him for who he is and the more that we see ourself for who we actually are. And we can view it two ways. We can either be depressed, why? And I think oftentimes that's where I can find myself of like, well, why am I not getting past this? How am I not growing or maturing past this thing or? - That was only this weekend for me, Derek. It was a long time ago, just literally this weekend. - Yeah, and, you know, but I think those are, I think those are good things to talk about because I think oftentimes we can buy into the lie that, okay, like if we're not getting past this thing, you know, where it's like, well, maybe, maybe I don't have the relationship with Jesus, I thought, like maybe I'm the fraud, like maybe it's my problem, you know? And, and at the end of the day, that's one of the things I've learned in my life is at the times when my relationship with Christ as a growner, those seasons and those moments where I have no other choice. And it's not just, again, it's not that, hey, I want, it's not even that like, hey, I want, I want Jesus, like, you know, kind of maybe you'll be okay with being around him,

but like, no, I need him. I need him to show up. I need him to heal me of this. I need him to bring me through this. And those are the moments where you do see his power. - Yeah, well, and we talk all the time, right? I think we would all agree, and I think most people listening us would agree that so often the greatest times of spiritual growth in our life are those times where we're in the pit, right? Where we're suffering, where we're dealing with things, we cannot handle. And it's precisely because those things we cannot handle take us to someone who can't handle them. And we rely on him more, we trust in him more, we lean on him more, because we recognize like, if he doesn't show up, now I'm cooked, right? Like, and I think there's a reason why those times are our greatest avenues and opportunities for growth is because we are forced in that moment to actually recognize what is always true. So we can't do it on our own. - Well, Jamie, as we wrap, final word for the panda viewer, for our panda family right now, that is trying to apply this to their life. - Yeah, I would just say, man, thanks for listening in. And I hope you've had the experience I've literally had during this conversation. I felt like God has whispered to me in this conversation, you're not the only one who struggles.

I get so stuck in my heart and my mind and think I'm the only one. I can't believe I haven't made it yet. I can't believe I haven't overcome this yet. I can't believe you're still struggling with this. I can't believe we need each other. We need each other. And I just wanna encourage you, especially men listening into this is that the most mainly thing you can ever do is acknowledge you can't do life on your own. You need brothers and sisters in Christ. You desperately need God. And if you're waiting to the day, you can do it all on your own. You're gonna be waiting a very, very long time. And so I would say, for all of us, just getting to the point to make the incredible acknowledgement John the Baptist did in a different context. He said, "He must become greater and I must become less." And so stop battling with him. Let him have the way, let him lead the way and let him carry you when you need it. I've heard an analogy that I think is helpful for me and maybe for you as well. In terms of this helplessness and hopelessness thing, when someone is in the terrible moment of drowning and someone is trying to rescue him, they say the very worst thing you can do is battle against the person trying to save you. You end up both going down

and you actually have to let yourself go limp and let them save you. Some of us just need to slow down and calm down and quiet down. And let King Jesus do what he does. He shares his power and he's really generous with the power. - Good final word. Well, fella's great conversation today. Jamie, thanks for being on with us. Yeah, man. In Pando family, like Jamie just said, let King Jesus take the lead in your life. Surrender to him. Surrender is not defeat in the kingdom of God. And we would love to come beside you and pray for you. And so you can always find the address to our church in the description of the video where you can write us. Let us know what's going on in your story. Let us know how we can pray for you. If you didn't know, we have people here at Southeast that are willing to pray over those requests and write you back. And so we would love to be able to do that for you. Y'all, until next time, we pray that you have an awesome week ahead and we will see you next podcast. You You