Biblical Manhood (Ed Young & Shane Winnings)

My life just felt like trash and it was because I was not living for Jesus. So that's really what's been on my heart as we've been traveling the country preaching is like, the Christian victory is that you get to the end of your life and you're still professing Christ. What I've seen in this culture, and I'm sure you have too, is that we have weak men who are afraid to stand up to ideologies because of what they might lose, which is their reputation, their job, their friends, even their family, I mean, how many families have been divided because of different ideologies since 2020? It's insane. So we need strong men to just say, look, with love in my heart, this is where I draw the line on these issues and I'm going to side with God no matter what I lose. If we can raise up men to have vision for their family, for their spouse and for their country, I believe that our nation can be saved. I'd rather have a church of 50 people that are on fire for God than a thousand who would leave the moment I actually preach the word. Shane, you know, I've always loved to ask questions my entire life. Just love it. I have and people who have asked me a lot, they're like, why do you ask them any questions? And I think when you ask questions, it's organic. You can really learn, especially someone who's been there like you have. I don't mind reading books. I mean, I read them. I have to read them. But sometimes they answer questions that, you know, maybe I've already had answered. So I like just learning that way. Yeah. Me too. Even like, you know, we do these college debates. Yes. And most of the viral clips that I have are me asking questions.

That's interesting. Just letting people explain this and just letting them figure out, what do I really believe, you know, and the way to get to that, the bottom of that answer is to keep asking those questions. You know, I think oftentimes when it comes to sharing gospel, when it comes to getting into deeper conversations, many people in many conversations, I think they're just two or three questions away. I hate to use this word because we've kind of abused it in the Christian community. But there are just a few questions away from a breakthrough. Yeah. I don't like that word. I thought you were going to say revival. Revival? Yeah. That's good. No, no, it's weird. Yeah. Yeah. They're great words. They are. We, you know, have kind of... Everything's revival. I'm asking questions. And I have this thing where I say ask the right people the right questions and get the right answers. That's true. And the key is the right people because to discover who the right people are, you've got to ask a lot of wrong people the right questions to go, you know, it's not the right person. So I'm glad we have you here to ask the right person the right question.

Let's see. I hope I give the right answer. I know you will. Shane, you are president, correct, of promise keepers. Yes, sir. CEO. Yeah, chairman and CEO. Man, that's awesome. What happened? It's kind of crazy. I mean, I was in full-time ministry starting in 2021. I left my job as a cop. I felt like the Lord called me into to be a missionary to America. So I left my job, started traveling nation preaching. I did a 44 city tour in parks and fields. Like I used my TikTok following at a big following at the time because I started preaching during COVID. And so I'm like, hey, I'm going to be at this city at this time. We raise all the money. We went all over the country. That started opening doors and then I started making content for promise keepers for like their social media. I don't even know they were still around. I'm like, my dad went to promise keepers when I was a kid. This is the same one. So that's cool. So I'm making content for them. And whoever ran the account said, you need to meet our CEO. He's a former Marine and former LAPD. Your former army, former, you know, Federal Way police, you guys should hang out.

So we met up, his name's Ken Harrison. And after like two and a half years of relationship, literally one day he just called me on the phone and was like, I think God's telling me my time at promise keepers is done and you should be the next guy. So totally unexpected, but it just felt like, wow, all the stuff that I've been through in my life, this makes sense. You know, the time in the military, the time as a cop, all the challenges, everything. Now I get to lead a ministry to focus on raising up men who I believe are, you know, they're very important to go after right now, especially in this day and age to see our culture one back to Christ. So true. So tell me about doing about your background because you have a diverse background, obviously. I went to Florida Tech. And so I joined the military as an officer. I got to serve with the Special Forces Unit up in Washington State. Okay, so you so you received, though, you're being humble. You received a scholarship, right? I did. Yeah, I got a full ride in the Army, which is great. And but they get their money back for sure. They do do it. Yeah, but you got it in logistics. So I got my degree in aviation, and then I ended up going and joined the military and jumping out of planes. So still never flown a plane to this day, but have an aviation degree. So that's cool. But the Army paid for it. So I, you know, I'm 22 years old. I get put in charge of almost 80 soldiers. Within the first year, we lose two guys. One guy gets killed in Afghanistan. Then six weeks later, lose another guy to suicide. So I'm doing two funerals, handing folded flags to widows and moms and dads as a 22 year old. You know, so this is like, Oh man, I'm in the military. You know, we're losing guys. And then I deployed to Afghanistan a year later in 2014, and got to support the green berets over there. And you know, those are just some of the most elite guys in the world. They're incredible. So learned a lot. Okay. Comparing the Navy seal to the green. You can't really do it. You can't do it. Yeah, you can't. I shouldn't have asked that question. Yeah, that's okay. You know, they're all elite. They're all elite. You worked with the with seal team two and so team eight. So they're great guys. But we used to joke that they're requests for for like, you know, hair gel and bacon. And our guys

were requesting, you know, this good stuff for the mission. But it's all in good fun. You know, we're super grateful. They're they're all professionals. What do you have to do to be a green berry? Well, I mean, so you have to go through a selection process. So there's a three week school called S F A S. And that has a very low pass rate. And if you make it through that, then you begin the qualification course, which can last anywhere from eight months to almost two years. Okay, so you have to go to school, like a school for three weeks. Well, you go to it. I mean, it's like, you know, they call it like hell on earth. So it's training ends. So it's mind and body risk. Yeah. So I had a date to go to this course. And then I felt like the Lord told me to get out of the military, because I was serving with the green berry. Okay. Yeah. So as an officer, you have to be promotable to captain before you can go because basically once you graduate, you need to be a captain so that you can lead a team, all the team leaders, captains. And so I was getting ready to get into that window where I'm promotable to captain. That's right at the four year mark. That's when your contract is up and you would re enlist. And I felt like the Lord prompted me to get out. And so I did. And I became a police officer. So it's like I'm training up. I'm getting ready. I want to go to this school. I want to give it a shot, you know, see if I can make it. And then I got out. It's like completely changed. I thought it was going to be career military. Yes. Got out after four years. And then you were a cop in Seattle, just south. Yeah, a city called Federal Way. So there's a pretty rough between Tacoma and Seattle is called the Valley. And there's like seven cities in there. And that's where all the junk happens. And that's where I was a cop. Yeah. Weekend night shift. Okay, tell me it was awesome. Shane, what me through a typical night there as a cop? Oh, I mean, you know, they say one year at Federal Way on F squad, which is, you know, it's like A through F. F is weekend night shift. Okay. One year on F squad is like 10 years at another department because of how much crime and what kind of crime you see. So my first year, I saw every kind of crime over and over again, violent crimes, horrific things, almost gotten many shootings, just wild, wild crimes. So, you know, you might ask a cop, have you ever drawn your gun? If you ask an F squad guy, he would say, yeah, how many times per night my guns coming out? It's how many times a weekend is my rifle coming out? Like that was typical, you know, we didn't you don't take that squad to write traffic tickets.

If we're pulling someone over in a car, it's because you probably have a felony or you're in a stolen car or something. We're getting in a pursuit. We're getting in a foot chase. We're getting in a fight. So it was, it was wild. Okay, who's the meanest guy? Don't mention his name that you ever like came in contact with the meanest guy on F squad. Oh, one of our guys. One of my guys. It might have been you or no, no, no, no, maybe someone you faced maybe uh you know i've got the scar right here uh-huh and Yeah, praise the Lord. But we got a call for a domestic violence suspect. He had threatened to kill his girlfriend. He was outside of her apartment, beating on the door, screaming. So I showed up first and I see him and I yell at him, "Hey, don't move, stop, police." He takes off running. So I air that I'm in a foot pursuit. I start chasing him, catch up to him pretty quickly, tackle him, and I wrestled my whole life. So I attribute wrestling and I was a power lifter at the time. So like strength and wrestling saved my life, I believe, because I tackled him and he threw an elbow and caught me here. And I didn't know that my face was split open and I was like pouring out blood. 'Cause you're just, I know I got hit, but I'm like, I'm in the moment. So I tackle him and I feel him shift his weight. Like he's trying to mount me. You know, and if you're in a mounted position, that's the worst position to be in. Like I'm not a UFC fighter.

I'm a wrestler and I'm strong, but, you know, if someone's got you in full mount and your arms are pinned and you can't get to any of your weapons, like, especially if he's got a weapon. So, but because I felt him trying to do that, I was able to re-roll him just from basic wrestling, you know, background. Re-rolled him, the fights on, and about a minute or so later, my partner showed up 'cause we had separate vehicles, which can be nice 'cause you can knock out, there'd be different calls that don't require two guys. My partner shows up and we put the guy in handcuffs and he looks at me, he's like, dude, your face is split. You know, so I go to the hospital, I get stitched up. And my wife now, we were dating long distance. And we had been dating for like a month. And so I texted her, I think I FaceTimed her actually from the hospital. Probably not a good idea, by the way. But I'm like, hey, this is a test. Like, if this is gonna be my wife, she needs to be able to handle this. So I FaceTimed her from the hospital and I'm like, my face is split open and I've got a huge black eye. And she's like, what happened? I'm like, got in a fight, everything's good. Like, I get to go home early, you know, I'm off for a few days.

So that was, that's like a typical. - So that guy was a force to be reckoned with me, even though he-- - I would call it a cheap shot, you know? But we handled him. But that was one of the, that and the guy who hit me with an RV and sent me flying in the air, tried to run me over. Those two guys were not nice. But uh-- - And okay, and you were telling me a little bit, so in a way that was crazier than Afghanistan for you. - For me, yeah. Yeah, I mean, being a cop in America is incredibly dangerous because-- - People have no idea. - Every, every, every-- - Oh, I'm gonna, I can't imagine a shame. - You might hear it, there's no routine traffic stop, but like, every single time you interact with someone, you don't know their intentions. And how many police videos are out there, where it seems like the suspect is cooperating, they're being very kind, and then that fast, they draw a gun or something. And so you're always on edge, and you're always expecting everyone to try to hurt you. So I try to connect with people, but I'm always watching their hands when I was a cop, because hands are what will kill you, you know?

So it was crazy, and it was crazy to come out of that and realize, man, I've been operating at like this level of-- - Gosh, shame, that's-- - Stress for a long time. But what was cool is-- - Huh? - I had a radical encounter with the Lord. - Yeah, tell me-- - As I was going into the police academy in 2016. - Okay, so that's when you get this radical encounter with the Lord. - Yeah. - And while you were in the police academy. - Yeah, right, right before I went in. Yeah, I'm leaving the army, and I'm going through the testing process to get hired by the police. And long story short, I grew up in the church, I was a mega church drummer, I played guitar. - You play the drums too? - I do, yeah, I try. And-- - I love the drums, right? - Do you know what, no, no, no, I'm not, am I any good, but it's one of those things I regret, because you know how everyone has these things like, yeah, I was decent at it as a kid, and you stop. I was decent drummer, but I never progressed past the fifth grade. - It's still in there. - I'm still a great fifth grade drummer, Shane. (laughing) But see, you progressed, you went to the megachrome, I mean, that means-- - I was trying to--

- That was nice. - Well, I appreciate it. - You know, I sat behind some great drummers. One of the guys that I got to kind of shadow was like a rock, Christian rock drummer who went on like these big tours, like Warped Tour and was on VH1 and all this stuff. So I got to sit behind him and watch him play. And I picked up a lot. - Have you seen this drummer? - You know, ADD, well, you can tell. He's like somewhere in South America, beard. He has like, I've never seen anything like this guy. - Are you talking about Eloy Castagrande or something like that? - I'll be that set. - He is one of the best drummers in the world. His name's Matt Greiner, he drums for a Christian metal band called August Burns Red. >> Really? >> Solid believer. >> Okay. >> Double bass like the guy. >> Let's go. >> Incredible guy. >> Okay, if you remember the old school drummer, no, you weren't even born. >> You probably seen 90. >> No. >> Okay, you've probably seen. >> I went to a smashing pumpkins clinic. >> Buddy Rich. >> Jimmy Chamberlain, that's like- >> You ever got Buddy Rich?

>> I know Buddy Rich. >> He was a black guy- >> Come on, that's like hey, do you know Billy Grant? >> Okay. >> Okay, so the other guy you were telling me about was what now? >> Matt Greiner. >> Matt Greiner. >> Yeah. >> Incredible dude. Incredible drummer. >> And what's his band? >> August Burns Red, they're like a Christian metal band. So they're pretty intense. So anyway, some of that would bleed into my worship drumming. So people were like, you have so much energy, it's like I listen to the rock and metal all the time. >> Okay. >> Oh Lord. >> Right. >> So it's a lot of fun. But I would be worship drumming on a weekend and then I would be out partying with my friends or with my soldiers and a lot of my buddies from church just because that's kind of what everybody did. >> Yeah. >> Like hey, we're not doing drugs. >> Yes, but- >> So it's not that bad. >> Right. >> We would like rank our sin. >> Yes. >> So it's down here.

And when I was 25, I had an encounter on my bed where I had a thought and the thought was Shane, you've never lived for me one day in your whole life. And I knew it was God and I knew he was right. And so I'm like, man, I've had an intellectual belief of God, but I've never actually followed him. >> That's powerful. >> And I realize there's a difference between a believer and a follower. And I'm like, okay Lord, you know, because at that time I wanted to be dead. Like I lost my best friend, I lost soldiers, I had trauma, I was getting into partying and drinking more, and my life just felt like trash. And I was at church four or five days a week, serving every chance I could. I'm like, maybe this will help, and it wasn't. And it was because I was not living for Jesus. And so I had that encounter, I got set on fire. And so I'd be fighting a guy over a gun at night, then I'd be out in Tacoma at the parks preaching during the day, praying for people, trying to pray for 10 people a day. And I did that for five years, like in secret. You know, no social media wasn't recording myself, like just going out and spreading the gospel and loving all the people. >> Tell me, how do you pray for people, okay? You said you'd pray for 10 people. Coach us, how do you do that? >> I mean, there would be many kind of openers, an easy one is like anyone who's got any kind of like visible affliction or disability. You know, you got to cast or something. >> Right, so you say, hey. What happened to your arm? And you'd be surprised. People will tell you, they're like, oh man, I fell down. I'm like, gosh, well, I'm a Christian, and I believe that Jesus still heals today.

And like, we're called to just pray. And so can I pray for you for like 60 seconds? And they're like, sure. And so then I'll just pray. And then, you know, I would begin to, I don't know if you're probably familiar with it, treasure hunts. Have you heard of those before? >> So like me and my buddies would sit around and we would say, Lord, we want to go love on some people like we tell us some stuff. And we would have, we would have all these thoughts. We'd write down four or five thoughts. And then we'd compare notes. And so like maybe both of us thought the Tacoma mall, like, oh man, maybe we should go to the mall. You know, I thought yellow shirt. I thought Elizabeth. Okay, cool. Let's just go to the mall and love on people and see what happens. We go to the mall, we see a woman in a wheelchair, we go, hey, you know, why are you in that wheelchair? Oh, well, you know, this reason, that reason. Cool. What is your name? My name is Elizabeth. Oh, interesting. We believe God told us we're going to meet someone named Elizabeth today. Isn't that cool? And she's like, wow, it's crazy. And another thought. This is a real story.

This is crazy. My buddy Jacob had thought of the phrase pins and needles. And we asked her to describe what was going on with her. And she said, well, I feel like I have pins and needles in my legs. And we're like, look at our notes on our phone. We wrote this down. Unreal. So we pray for her. This is on video. She feels the power of God come over her. She gets out of the wheelchair and she starts walking around. And then she's like testifying like God just healed me, you know, crazy stuff. So all that to say, I began to realize like, man, if when I'm praying for someone, I am just trying to hear God's heart. I can hear God speak. Not every time. I'm not perfect. You know, I'm not profit. But if his spirit lives inside of me, then he can tell himself anything. So I'd be praying for someone at the prayer line at church and we'd be praying. And I would just keep having the thought mom and be like, hey, listen, this could be nothing. But I keep hearing mom, like, does that mean anything to you? And the person would start crying and say, I'm having issues with my mom. You know, this is a person who'd come up and say, I have an unspecified prayer request. And so that doesn't happen every time. But I do believe as Christians, if we lean in and we're not just reciting prayers, but we're trying to connect with God's heart for people, there's times when he'll tell us stuff. And so I've had the privilege of being able

to connect with people like that. And it's a lot of fun. And I've seen that word of knowledge get used on the street as a cop as well. God's showing me where our suspect was. And so I mean, just like crazy stuff. Life with God is insane. It really is. But it's the best life. Yes, it is. It's hardest life. It's the craziest life. But I've never had more peace or more joy since falling in the Lord. That's great. And that happened during that time period on your bed, you had this encounter with God, okay? And then from there, you went to the academy. I did. I went to the police academy. And then your police officer. Yep, from 2016 to 2021. Okay. And then after that, I felt like God was calling me out to be a missionary. And the funny thing is, I knew I wanted, you know, ministry was growing. I was preaching on TikTok Live every Monday night. We at one point, we had 5,000 people streaming live on TikTok in 2021.

So I'm like, okay, this is becoming a thing. Yes. Lord, I don't have time to do all these videos and be a cop. Like, so I went to my pastor who was my mentor at the time. His name was Gordon Banks. He used to play for the Cowboys. Now he leads Overcomer Covenant Church, which was a shoot off of Covenant Church here. And I just said, look, I feel like I'm supposed to be in ministry. I'm not chasing ministry. I just really feel like I'm supposed to. I'll be a janitor for you. Like, I want to work for you. I want to work my way up. And one of my buddies said, well, would you ever be a missionary? I was like, no, how could you be a missionary? You're not even going, how do you get paid? Yeah. Two weeks later, I'm on a flight. I have a vision of myself traveling the US. I have a backpack on preaching the gospel. And I know that I'm a missionary and I start weeping on the plane. And like, I don't really cry a lot. And so I, and I felt the power of God. I'm like, dang, I think I'm supposed to be a missionary. So I talked to my wife about it.

She felt peace. She's four months pregnant. I'm leaving a six-figure job with benefits to go follow what I think is God's voice and my wife's on board. So with no donors lined up-- Isn't that great? With nothing lined up, I said, I think this is God. I quit my job. And I was told, that's not smart, dude. It can take people two years to get fully funded as missionaries. Within 19 days, we had $6,000 a month of recurring donations, supported as a family, and we went into full-time ministry. It was insane. 19 days. Like. And what's more amazing than that is that my wife and I both said, we are willing to be broken homeless if we think we're following God's voice. So you can't fail as a Christian. Failure is what? We didn't raise the support. But I thought I heard God and so I tried to obey. Exactly. That's a win. Yes. So by redefining what's a win in my life, you can't lose.

I love that. Redefining what's a win. Yeah. OK, so from there-- That's crazy. Wait, I'm having a revelation. OK. I got a prophetic word in 2016, some random guy. OK. My last name is Winnings, which didn't help me in high school when I lost at wrestling, because my coach would call me losing. But in 2016, I got a prophetic word, and this guy said, you're going to teach the body of Christ how to win. And I was like, cool. I love prophetic words, but I was like, maybe he's reaching my last name. But just now when I said that, I'm like, dude, maybe teaching the body of Christ what a real win looks like. Because we experienced so many losses, we think. Yes, we think. But the win is that I didn't lose my faith. So that just hit me right now. Wow. That's crazy. That's just great. So that's really what's been on my heart, as we've been traveling the country preaching is like, the Christian victory is that you get to the end of your life

and you're still professing Christ. That's it. That's it. That's how you win. All right, Shane, you mentioned wrestling. Let me go back just for a second. So you wrestled in high school, junior high and high school. And also college or just stuff like that? No, we had a little club in college, but you know, we didn't even have a football team where I went to school. And I wouldn't have been good enough to make the wrestling team. I enjoyed it, but I wasn't. But you were in powerlifting. In high school or college? No, I didn't get into powerlifting Another thing, you know what I'm learning? Like don't say you'll never do something 'cause you end up doing it. - That's the truth. - I went to a powerlifting. I was like a bro lifter, you know, I'd go to the gym, just do curls and all that stuff. Try to bench. - You, I love that line. You have no idea the power of that. A bro lifter. - Bro lifter, bro. - There's a science, you know, two scoops of protein. - There's a whole free workout. - There's a whole culture of Brodom.

- Yeah. - My brother and I, my brother's also a pastor. I'm gonna do a quick sidebar here. - Okay. - We talk about Mount Brodom. Who was on Mount Brodom? We think Tom Brady, Joe Rogan. Who else would be there? - Joe Rogan is what you would say, bro. - Bro, I'm sorry. - Joe Rogan? - Yeah. - Tom Brady, who else would be on there? - I've just like legends. - Yeah. They have to be awesome. - Mount Brodom, they could be anyone. - Abraham Lincoln probably, you know. - Okay, okay. - He's a pretty, uh-huh, studdly guy. - Yes, he was. How about in today's culture though, Shane? - Honestly, I- - This is through bros of bros, bro. - I like Scotty Scheffler. - Scotty, you know, he's from here, but- - Yes, he is. - He's a man of God. - I like him. - I don't know him.

- Yeah. - How about Tim Teabro? - Oh, Tim Teabro. - No, that was a good one. - That was a good one. - I just got to spend a few hours with Tim. - Yeah, Tim Teabro. - Three weeks ago. - We were here for a human trafficking conference. - I love Tim. - Yeah. - He's great. - He's great, bro, that's awesome. - You know what I told him? - I tell him that next month. - Well, one time I got into Brodham with him, and I go, "Tim, you don't really get it because you're like the standard, you know?" - Right. - When you're on his level, you don't really understand Brodham. - You don't think about it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - But thanks for saying that. - That's crazy. - Bro. - Okay. - This is a good sidebar. - I don't even remember where-

- So, you can talk about a bro lifter? - Okay, yeah. - Bro-teen. - Bro-science. - Bro-science, okay. - So then you were like, "Okay, I'm leaving the Brodham, and I'm going into powerlifting." - Well, I had a buddy invite me to a powerlifting competition, and I went and I'm like, "Yeah, that's cool, but I would never do it." - Yeah. - And then he was like, "Well, just come deadlift with me with like once." - Yes. - So I deadlifted, I think I deadlifted like 365 pounds. You know, I weighed like 180. So he's like, "Dude, two times body weight. Like I wonder if you could ever get to three times body weight." And then that, he knew what he was doing, but I'm too competitive. So I'm just like, "I wonder if I could get to three times." You know? So I started training, and then I was like, "Dude, I need a coach, so I can get really good." - Yeah. - And then I hired a coach, he was like top five in the world at his weight class.

And so I started training at a powerlifting gym with guys who like, they're like, "Hey, let's work in together." And I'm like, "I don't wanna do that." And they're like, "No, it's cool." So I'd squat three, 400, and then they would load 700 pounds, you know? So I'm getting two workouts in. My lift, and then unwracking all of their weights. But like that got me hooked, you know, on a completed a couple of times. But having that strength as a cop was, and even just having the physique of like, "Hey, this cop doesn't have a neck." - Right. - And he's looking at me like, "I better not do anything." That diffuses so many situations. - No. - So many fights, so many shootings I never had to get into. - They looked at you. - Yeah. - I've never had that problem. So Shane, tell me, what do you do to train now? What kind of train? - I kind of do like a hybrid. You know, I'll do some cardio, some running again. I said I'd never run again after I left the army. - But yeah.

- Here we are. - Yes. - So do some running, do some lifting. I still do, you know, bench and squat here and there, but I played like competitive pickleball. - So-- - You do that too? - I don't wanna be too big and shaky. - Shane, you gotta meet my wife. She loves pickleball. - I'm way too intense. - She loves it. - I mean, I-- - I play with her song and I'm not that great, but she's good, but I mean, that, what a game. - Yeah, it's the first time I went to play, actually I played with Luke, 'cause with me today. And we went on a court and it was like two 70 year old ladies. And I just looked at him and I'm like, bro, we're about to do work. - Yes. - And I'm pretty sure we maybe scored one point. And I'm like, I do not understand this game or why they just did that to us. Because looking at them, this should have never happened. So then I caught the bug. And two years later, like, now I'm in tournaments and trying to get better, I do drills, you know, I'm nerding out over it, but that's how I am. Like I go all in stuff. - I like that.

- So it's a, it can be a pro in a con. - Okay, so Shane, so you, you get the scholarship, you are in the military, you now are a cop, and prior to that, of course, you have this encounter with the Lord. You start preaching, you're a missionary. - Yeah. You're married? - Yep. - So then what happened? - I ended up meeting Ken Harrison who led Promise Keepers. - That's how that's the past. - And in 2020, at the end of 2023, I stepped in as the chairman and CEO. - Okay, so tell me about-- - It's not been leading that for almost three years. - Okay, so tell me about Promise Keepers. Tell me about, okay, quickly past. - Yeah. - How does it end? - So it started in the '80s, Coach Bill McCutney, Colorado Buffalo's, and 1990 was founded, which is the year I was born. And it was like, hey, we have a gap in men's ministry in America. So let's start meeting. And so it started with 40 dudes, and it kept doubling until one year they did 20 sold out NFL stadiums, just unreal.

And then in '97, they did the million and a half men in DC at the mall, largest gathering in US history on that property, still to this day. Just incredible. And so the ministry has continued, it's looked different, it's been through different hands. But really, we still exist to equip every man in Christ to become a better husband, father, and citizen. I kind of rewrote the mission statement to add citizen in there because I feel like we need that John F. Kidney spirit of like, what can I do to serve this nation? That is a godly trait, you know? And so if we can raise up men to have vision for their family, for their spouse, and for their country, I believe that our nation can be saved. We're not gonna vote our way out of these issues. It's a hard issue, and it starts with men, starts in the house of God, and we're supposed to be leading. So we host conferences, we do the evangelistic arm, which is like the college debates reaching the next generation, you know, world view against world view. Let's see how our stack up. And we've got curriculum, you know, we do all that stuff. We've got men's groups that we're launching across the country, so a lot happening. We're super excited. - Shane, going back to world view, taught me through like the world views. How do you guys get into that?

And what's, how would you articulate our side and the other sides that you see? Topics based, you know, hey, debate me on abortion. Debate me on, you know, I'll say abortion's murder, change my mind. There's only two genders, change my mind. Marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman, change my mind. And even those topics, it reflects an entire world view. - Yes, it does. - And so, again, I just ask questions. And it's caused me to be a student. I study more now than I did in college. I mean, I study when we're getting into debate season, hours a day, because these kids, some of them are actually smart, you know. Most of them are just regurgitating talking points that they heard, but some of them are really smart. And they really do believe what they're saying. And so I have to, I can't just come up and say, well, the Bible says, because it's true. But if I want to be a good communicator, I know that these kids will shut off. So I'm studying natural law, reason, you know, science. Peer-reviewed studies. And then after I've broken down their argument, I come in and say, you know, the foundation of everything I just said is right here in the scriptures. And I kind of drive it home with the Bible as like, this is what holds all this together.

So the research, the studying, the science, all that, it is the study of like how God created it to be. So it's been really fun, but it's challenging because they can ask you anything. And there's plenty of times where I say like, hey, I don't know. I don't know that or I'm not that schooled in that area. But it is, it's pretty wild getting out there and you never know what kind of questions coming. And you know, you find out what you believe and causes you to dig in. And I like that. - Yes, it does. - I like that a lot. - Okay, tell me about men. Like unpack the goals for promise keepers and. - Yeah. In a nutshell, men, you know, we don't have rite of passage in this country. So it's like, when did you become a man? You know, most guys would be like, I don't know. I remember in 25, had a five bedroom house, had three cars, but you know, I had a motorcycle, a dog, I had money in the bank. I don't know if I would have said, I'm a man yet. I was living like a boy. I was still out there partying and doing all this stuff. When did I step into manhood? And so I think since we don't have a rite of passage, it is like this clarion call of like, hey, make the decision now to step into manhood.

What is manhood? Becoming a priest, a provider and a protector. So priests of your home. It's not your pastor's job to shepherd your family. It's your job. - That's right. - You can't subcontract it out. And even then it's only one hour a week, maybe two. - Well said. - It's not enough. - Yes. - So be the priest of your home, be the priest of your life, be the provider, clearly. But not just financially or resources, but you're providing stability in the home, your presence. And then a protector, you know? Not just from the bad guy coming in the door at night, but also protecting the hearts and minds of your family. Because the real enemy, he might not ever come through your front door, but he's coming through your screen in the form of ideologies. - Right. - And what I've seen in this culture, and I'm sure you have two, is that we have weak men who are afraid to stand up to ideologies because of what they might lose. Which is their reputation, their job, their friends, even their family. I mean, how many families have been divided

because of different ideologies since 2020? Sinceane. - That's right. - So we need strong men to just say, look, with love in my heart, this is where I draw the line on these issues. And I'm gonna side with God, no matter what I lose. So if we can get men to just focus on becoming these three things, career, calling, all of that, that could change. I've had four different careers in 10 years. But if I'm always working to become a priest, provider, and protector, I believe now I'm on the road to like walking out biblical masculinity. And that can start at any age. - Brilliant. - You know, because you don't get magical marriage powers when you get married. - That's the truth. - Whoever you are, the more that you show up. - I've been there for years, and that's true. - You're the same guy, leaving the altar as you showed up. - Yes. - So young men start becoming that guy. - I like that, yeah. - Beforehand. - Yes. - You know, so part of my speeches on college campuses is calling men to be men.

- Yeah. - I'm telling them, get a haircut. Shave your face if you've got three wild hairs sticking out. Like, you ever thought of shaving them? You know, maybe a young lady wants to see a clean face. And they're like, dress for the occasion. You know, I'm speaking to men, and then I'm also speaking to women. I'm saying, hey, practice modesty. - Yes. - You know, stop selling yourself out to the lowest bidder. Like, have standards. And it's like a wildly popular conversation around the nation. Men want to be told to be men, women want to be told to be women and look for strong godly men. So it's been great. - Shane, the church, we have spoken out for 35 years. We've been here at Fellowship Church, and we have stood up for so many issues over the years. I mean, even back way, way, way before social media. And we have to do it, number one. I mean, we're called to do it. - Right. - And see, as a follower of Christ. But also too, you know, when you do it, it's not always the most popular thing, as you just mentioned. - Yeah, it's usually fun.

- And I'm seeing a lot of churches that are, and I don't mean you look for a fight every Sunday. - No, no, no. - You know what I'm saying to you, but I'm saying, if you're willing, as you hear from God, and read His word, just, okay, to say, marriages between one man and one woman, et cetera, et cetera. - Right. - Okay. I'm seeing a lot of churches step up into that, which is great. - Yes. - I'm also seeing more and more churches. On the other hand, I call them soft-serve churches, serving soft-serve ice cream, to soft-serve people about how to become more soft-serve. And there is obviously love and grace and mercy. That's part of it. We need to be sensitive, sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, et cetera, et cetera. But Jesus, here I'm telling you this. - No, I love it. - Jesus was and is a man's man. He was not some blue-eyed decaf, sipping white boy. - Nice guy. - Yeah. - I mean, he was nice, but strong as steel. - Sometimes it was not nice. - Yeah.

- So tell me, okay, we have a lot of pastors who watch this, and they're thinking, you know, I would like to stand. I wanna, man, I love what Shane's saying. How do you, you think, get to that point where you make that change, you go, all right, I'm willing, Lord, to tackle any subject. That's hard. I know it's a very difficult question. - It is, and I say, and I wanna speak-- - It's 'cause people ask me that. - Yeah. - And I don't really know. - I don't really know. - But you're a pastor. - Yeah. - And I wanna speak with reverence and humility because I'm not a pastor. - Right. - You know, I have the privilege of leading a ministry and I preach, but pastoring is a-- - It's different. - You're leading families, group journeys and stuff. - It's different, yes. - It's not, you know, it's not just like show up and blow up on Sunday and then you get to fly home and they get to deal with it. - I like that, show up. - Yeah, blow up and fly home. - Right.

- I never really put that way. - I don't wanna be like that. Because the longer I get to preach, the more I wanna preach at less churches, So I'd rather preach a four churches four times a year than a hundred churches. And so I say that to say, you know, I could only speak from what some of my pastor friends have done, like Lucas Miles, who I love, who just said, you know what, I'm going to take the next six weeks and in love, I am going to tackle every current issue I can think of and I'm going to preach the Bible on every issue. That's great. I didn't know where we stand, you will after the next six weeks and he preached his church down 50%. I see. But what a challenge. But see that last part freaks pastors out. Yes. But now I said that. And that first part's awesome. But why did he do it? I know. Are you right? Because it's the right thing to do. Yes, it is. And so if your mind goes, well, then we're going to lose the tide, then how do I keep this thing going? You're not in faith anymore. That's it. That's it. And I'm a man of God before I'm a businessman. Yes.

I know. I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian. Before I'm a CEO, I believe it's 50%. I love it. I mean, six weeks. And now I believe he's surpassed where they were before. You know what that is? It's been years. That's growth by subtraction. And as you very well know, you read the Scriptures, read the Gospels, growth by subtraction. What did Jesus do when he had 5000? Yeah. That's right. He said a hard thing. Yes. That drove him all away. Yes. The modern day disciples would have said, "Hey, Jesus, look, let's debrief." You were going great for a minute. And then the whole "eat my body, drink my blood" thing. That's right. I think we need to change the language a little bit. And because you just drove away 5000, like what could we do with 5000? The message could go further if we had 5000. So let's soften it up a little bit. Like they would have debriefed Jesus. And it's like, dude, the kingdom is counter. It is just stand for what he stands for and he will back you. Bro you.

I want to be backed by God. I want to be blessed by God. Yeah, there are two. I want my finances blessed by God. I'd rather live on a blessed 90% than an unblessed 100. That's the truth. Right. So it's like when you flip your mindset of what a win is, a win is not a full church. A win is a church of people, I'll tell you what a win is. The founder of Delta Force, the most elite unit in the whole world, pulls from the seals, pulls from the green brace, pulls from the rangers to form this elite fighting force. The founder said, and I'll edit it, but he said, I'd rather go down the river with 10 studs than 100 turds. I'd rather have a church of 50 people that are on fire for God than 1000 who would leave the moment I actually preach the word. That's great. So that's what I would say. Man. Okay. Let me go back to logistics here. What does it mean to have a degree in logistics or that that's your thing? You've said. I did that in the military. Yeah. But you're but you didn't want to do it. Okay. But you obviously are gifted in this. Without an aviation degree, I wanted to go infantry, you know, lead men on the battlefield, shoot guns, had a pretty good GPA, pretty well in my RTC program, got needs of the army, didn't get my first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or sixth choice.

I got my seventh choice, which was really great. So 21 years old, I'm learning a lesson of like life doesn't go the way you hoped it worked or even worked for it to go. So I get stuck in logistics, but it ended up being a huge blessing. Long story short, I wouldn't have gotten into special operations if it had not been for that. So the community I was a part of, different schools I got to go to was because of that. So and I see how it got worked, but and who knows, I could have gone infantry, I could have got killed. So and logistics, literally just everything from every moving piece, you know, moving of men, bullets, beans, like everything, everything, any moving piece. So when I was in Afghanistan, it was like, I was responsible for $22 million worth of special operations equipment, including sensitive items where like if a sensitive item goes missing, like a weapon or a radio or like the fill for a radio, it's like a, it's like a major deal. And it was spread out across hundreds of miles in different districts of the country. By the way, these guys are like, this is an active combat zone. These guys are doing missions. And then at that time also in 2014, we were, we were tearing down. So actively fighting the enemy, but also trying to like reduce our footprint in the country to allegedly hand it off to the Afghans, which never really happened, didn't happen Well, especially under Biden, but making sure they had everything they needed. I was a servant really, that was my job. Serve these green berets who are doing the work and it was a huge humbled pill to take because when you want to be the guy who's doing the fun stuff, and I got to be on a gun for the convoys and stuff, I never had to shoot it, but that was as close as I got, and I thought that's what I wanted. I want to be the guy and now I'm supplying the guy. It's like if you went to school to be a pilot and you got hired as a stewardess, you're like,

hey, I'm on the plane, I guess, you know, it felt like that. So look how God has used it to me a lot. Yeah, and where you are, taught me a lot. Yeah, taught me a lot, and so, but I was like, okay, look, I'm in this unit, I'm surrounded by some of the best guys, I'm going to pull from them and I'm going to train because when I'm able to be a captain, I'm going to go to that course, hopefully I can do well enough and get picked, and then I can be a greenberry. So like that's my path, it's like, I'll do my four years, and then now I can go do this elite thing, and that was the path that I was on, and then I just felt like it was time to get out. It was so bizarre to me because I always thought I want to be career military, and then I want to get a law degree, and then I want to go into politics, and the closer I got to all that stuff, I was like, I don't want anything to do with that, I don't want to be a politician. And no, I've been, I've got to pray for Trump, I've been in the White House, I've been in all this stuff. I don't want to be a politician, I'd rather advise politicians. So it is just funny how you think you know what you want, but isn't that the truth? It's the older I get, the more I'm like, no, I truly want what God wants. And it's the sovereign hands of God, as we look back, isn't it? It's that God speaking to us, leading us, using situations where we think we know one you know. Yeah, closing a door. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. Why did that close? Yes. Like there's no reason that door should have closed, but then 10 years later, man. That's right. You're like, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord.

Yes. You know. So I'm very full. Well, Shane. We're full for it all. Thank you, Lord, for this opportunity. Amen. Thank you, Lord, for being able to hang out with Shane, and Shane, you are, you're a great guy, man. Enjoy talking to you. (gentle music) [BLANK_AUDIO]